Desperate British Expat Searches For Kidnapped Son In Bangkok

[Rama]

Martin, you should get a lawyer and go to family court. Without a court order saying otherwise, your child's Thai mother has just as much right to the kid as you do. And having her parents take care of the kid is her right. If you happen to get the kid and take him out of the country without the mother's permission, she can file kidnapping charges against you - and they will take the kid back to Thailand without you, and you may face criminal proceedings. Be careful.

[Mario2008]

The child has not been kidnapped by the mother.

[Mario2008]

1 anti Thai post deleted.

[johnlk]

As the thread lengthens, more info comes to light.....

I think the answer to this hinges on the stability of Martin and his wife's relationship.

If they are unsettled, it is probably better that the child is away from them, and not in view of any conflicts. In the West we are led to believe that the child's well-being must always be the priority, right?

The in-laws might be thinking they are doing the right thing for the child, and so the request for 10,000 baht would then look about reasonable for the upkeep for the last 2 months (nappys and milk etc). Not exactly a ransom figure, as many have mentioned already.

I'm not a parent, but I would like to think that I would act a lot quicker in being re-united with my child if this happened to me, whether it be in Thailand, England or anywhere else in the world. Guilt of some kind, i.e. knowing that I hadn't been the best father/husband up to then would be the only thing that would slow my search. Likewise, the FCO/Embassy/Police etc, wouldn't act quickly if this turns out to be a domestic dispute, especially if they suspect that the child is in no danger. But I'm sure they know more of your personal details than we do here. I'm sure they would have asked about the health of your marriage before they chose to act or not.

The bottom line is if you are unsettled in your marriage, then the baby is better off away from it until you settle and (re-)build trust with your wife and (therefore) her family.

It looks less and less like a "kidnapping" case, but more like a case of another farang who can't prove himself as a worthy addition to a Thai family.

[Bottlerocket]

There sure are a lot of weirdos here, Martin (in Thailand and on this forum). I hope you're able to get the help you need to get your son back. Keep prodding the police at higher and higher levels. Keep it alive in the media. Record your next meeting with the police on video. Start keeping records of everything they say to you regarding their responsibility, etc. Then see if you can't get that put in print.

Good luck, man. If I could help I would.

[atyclb]

From personal experience, embassies do not get involved with Thai legal aspects. The only thing the embassy could do is to make an "on site" visit to evaluate the living conditions and well being of the child, which could be highly desirable in this case. I'd imagine the embassy would involve Thai authorities if they were not allowed/unable to perform this on-site visit.

No offense, Martin, but this whole story could be a fraud. I mean where is the evidence? It is just a man's story printed up in a newspaper.

I've seen several occasions where people "claim" something horrible has happened to them, only to find out later that those people were CON ARTISTS or ATTENTION SEEKERS.

Take, for example, the balloon boy.... you know that kid who was supposedly lost in a hot air balloon. Turned out his parents were just LYING and wanted to get famous for some reality TV show.

Martin, if all this is true, then why not go to your EMBASSY and file a complaint and not do it through TWITTER. I mean in all honesty your approach seems very BOGUS. I would think any normal person would go through the proper channels. Doing something like this anonymously via Twitter or Facebook is extremely suspicious!

I have my doubts, my friend....

[Me&MrsJones]

Martin;

I feel for u as well. My ex tried the same thing with me and my daughter when she ran off with her boyfriend. Fortunailty i was no fool and rertained a lawyer and put a stop to it.

If u do get your child back HOLD on to him, Got to the courts and present your side of the story. In thailand Farangs have the same rights as thai's in a court of law. 99.9% you will retain full custody BUT you must decide is she in on this or.....

Seems those of us that have lived here long enough realize the thai smile is as fake as a $3 bill.

same rights as Thai's (sic) in a court of law?

What planet are you from?

[sedeflonga]

Thanks for posting my son's story and photo, if anyone thinks they might have seen him in Bangkok anywhere or has contacts who might be able to get us to get the local police interested in helping us find him, please get in touch.

He was last known to be being held in the Saphan Taksin Soi 8 area.

Martin

Martin,

I went through a very similar situation in 2004 when my 3 year old dissapeared.

I was asked for 1 million baht to see my son. The asking party was the in laws.....

To cut a long story short... it was an extortion plan from my wife's family and included my wife; even though she was by my side every day pretending to cry.

I was "wisened" by a police officer who advised me not to believe my wife. This was hard for him to do and for me to believe.

In the end it turned out that my wife was keeping a tab on me while my son would be moved around every time we (I) got closer. Even though I had arranged to pay the money, nothing happened. I did not hand the money over as I insisted that only when I saw my son they would get the money. My wife knew I had the money ready but she also knew that I would not hand it over until I saw my son. I did not give in and held on.....

Eventually I got away from my wife and tracked them all down myself. It took me six months but I did it. These would have had to be the worst 6 months in my life....

I got my son back, divorced my wife and took my son overseas where he has been schooling now for the last 5 years. AND he/we is very HAPPY!

Some notes:

The police officer that made me open my eyes said to me;

1) In Thailand the father has a right to the chidren just as much (if not more) as the mother (not like in our western countries where mums get their way).

2) I was told if I ever saw my son to pick him up in my arms and just walk away. Don't fight, don't argue just walk away! WITH MY SON. In his words who has has. If I had my son no one could take him away NOT EVEN THE POLICE! Same if she had him.

3) Make sure that no friend helps me to carry my son. I was to do it alone. My friends if any helped could be charged with kidnaping. I could not as I am the father.

4) Arrange for a divorce settlement and if there is property involved the wife would be more interested in the property than the child. THEY were 100% correct. She signed away her rights of my son and I walked away with 0% of the house. Not that we foreigners have any right to property as we are made to sign that land is purchased entirely with funds of the wife and 0% contribution form us (foreigners). You can own the house but not the land. I prefered to carry my son away rather than the bricks and tiles...

This is my story and I hope your is really different.....

BUT I tell you these ladies are great actors right to the end.... this is not to imply all Thai ladies but the ones that get up to it they are bloody good at it!

GOOD LUCK!

I am -negatively- amazed...

[Mario2008]

1 naming and shaming post deleted.

[Me&MrsJones]

I don't believe my wife is involved in taking our son away or in trying to get something from me, for a start she knows better than anyone we don't have anything substantial to give right now even if we wanted to. She was the one who made the report at the police station after getting no where trying to talk her family into giving him back at first. But I do understand her position in all this, if we take this all the way with the police then there is a chance her mother could be facing jail time, which as a good Thai daughter she cannot begin to see how she could do that but on the other hand she needs her son back.

I think your wife is full of baloney... "My mother stole my son for money", but I want to protect her as a "good Thai daughter"

Come on get real! In other words, my mother is more important than you or your child, haha Wake up!

This may sound like a joke to you, but the reality is, especially in rural areas, that the hirarchy goes like:

1. parents (they are god for you, nothing touches them)

2. child (thats something you created, so you have certain power and control over it)

(and assume that those rules are carved with blood in stone)

Guess what? Take the law of the jungle out of this equation. Let's have some human law for a change eh! First thing i would do if someone stole my son is to inform the police that i do not require their "service". Next, the in-laws (or whoever was holding my son) would lose all veils of protection under the guise of "family" and they would treated as the criminals they actually are. So the gloves would be well and truly off! Next, hire some black-clad men and storm in at 5am and begin the torture! No way would i be sitting around pondering the outcome of the reach of the law and how best to get him back! Go in hard and they will never Fck with you again!.... Then leave the country! It's about time farangs started sticking up for themselves. If some were not so weak it would send a message out that we are not to taken as idiots!

[Daewoo]

1 naming and shaming post deleted.

Booooo... Now my witty retort won't make sense... ...

Good moding...

[hungryhippo]

Given that the OP seems to have got tired of adding any light on the subject, it seems a real waste of time to be commenting any further on this probably fictitious case.

I wish people like you would simply not post here. This guy needs support and help not moaning old gits that are trying to figure out if his story is genuine or not. If he's making it all up then we can laugh about it, but what if he's not?

As foreigners here there are very few support groups available to us. Why not help rather then being a whining old forang who doesn't trust anyone without knowing person's complete life history.

There should be forum rules about posting this kind of nonsense, it adds nothing of value, wastes everyone's time and sabotages the OP's main goal in rounding support up.

[Mario2008]

1 naming and shaming post deleted.

Booooo... Now my witty retort won't make sense... ...

Good moding...

The reply to it has now been deleted as well

[MikeyIdea]

Hi Martin,

"Do you have an idea what is involved to get the court order that you mention?"

You have already done the first step (jaeng kwam), you need to do the second step (saab - as the Thai word for exam), at the same police station. You will need a lawyer for sure, for several reasons; 1) To get the police to want to do it. They don't really want to act against the extended family 2) The get the wording right. That's where a translater is not enough. Sample: The word Jeetana means "to do with a Criminal intent - you invoke criminal law", the normal word "tanng jai" just means "to do - civil law". Big difference between 2 words meaning the same thing. 3) I think a lawyer could help you to off-load your wife better, if you get the names of the people who abducted the child first time written down in Thai (doesn't really matter if the child is not with them/her any longer) then probably/maybe the lawyer can do this without the mother joining at the police station even, easier on her. This could very well be harder on her than it is on you. She probably won't worry as much about the physical health as you do but she will be right in the middle between love for you and your child and respect for her family.

Criminal offence and you can not get your court costs paid by the losing party, civil law and you can (well, that varies, 25 - 100% and nothing if they don't have money to pay with, I'd hope for / expect 50%). Criminal offence is obviously more serious, I don't know what it is in this case.

When you "saab", then you basically push the issue out of the police hands and on to the courts. You received a copy of the “jaeng kwam” (first police report), you won’t get a copy of the “saab” paper, second level. I recommend to include both kidnapping and extortion. You should get a receipt of some sort though and the lawyer should go to the district attorney’s office after a week or so and check that it arrived there. The district attorney (ajjagarn) will view your case and decide to allow it to pass or to reject it. There is no doubt that he will pass this on to the courts. It could take one to two weeks before the issue reaches the district attorney and one to two weeks before the district attorney reviews it and passes it on. The lawyer can probably push at the district attorneys office pretty quickly, we are talking about a kidnapping of toddler. If the police take longer than necessary to pass that on, then the district attorney probably wants to know. One phone call from him would be enough to get things rolling at the police station. Policemen in higher position in the area will know the district attorney for the area, through work

I don’t know how long the waiting for a court time is, actually, it is known to be pretty quick for things like this in Thailand. The lawyer can push for quicker response (kaa doan, laenng doan – there is a formal legal word too but I can’t remember it now). It sounds likely to me that it would be granted as it is a kidnapping case of an 8-month old toddler.

The actual court case should be easy; The court will order the person you name as kidnapper to appear in court, a letter will be sent to her registered address; It is quite possible that she will think – Oh shit when she gets news of the letter. There is a fact-finding session before court in juvenile court and probably also in a civil law case but I don’t know about criminal law. I don’t know if this will be seen as a criminal case or not. The lawyer will advice you. The lawyer will present the case and both you and the mother should be present, you must also have decided beforehand on what to say and not to say and the lawyer should have briefed you on how to behave in a Thai court. Respect is a good word to remember. The in-law may state that she has nothing to do with it of course but don’t worry, it won’t end because of that.

It is likely that penalties will be very small since the kidnapper is an in-law. I can’t see a jail sentence happening unless you push for it. A 2,000 bath penalty sounds more likely.

Price: Minimum 50,000 bath if it goes all the way, probably more. You could request the lawyer to help you with the “saab” at the police station, shouldn’t cost more than 5,000 bath, less actually. It wouldn’t surprise me if the child is swiftly returned when formal kidnapping and extortion charges come through. That would make it cheaper of course

I don’t understand westerners. Many of you posters are writing like punishing the kidnapper is the most important thing. Arresting the kidnapper is not the point, Getting the son back is the point – And the deterrent

Good Luck

[DangerfieldLives]

Interesting finds Changian. There does seem to be more to this case than meets the eye. I'm not accusing MJPerry of fabricating the story -- I believe it's genuine -- but I think perhaps he's left out certain details that might be helpful for those here offering advice.

This Tweet in particular is interesting: "His crazy mother was running around Bangkok with him yesterday and let him go for 9 hours without food, hope it hasn't hurt him too much."

If the mother is not a proper care provider, and the father works full time (presumably) and also can't be there, then perhaps a situation was arranged where the granny was helping take care of the youngster? Maybe that gave rise to a domestic squabble, after which Granny fled with the child?

The relationship between the mother and daughter is key here. Whatever the conflict is between them would determine the best course of action. Ideally that would involve resolving things within the family, as is the preferred Thai way. No telling if that's a possibility here as there are some major parts to this story that are missing.

Whatever you do, Martin, don't listen to the armchair commandos on here encouraging you to break the law or recreate the Bruce Willis/Ving Rhames torture scene in Pulp Fiction at granny's place. Fortunately your child seems in no physical danger. Also none of those who suggested it would actually do it, and it would do nothing more than end you up in a Thai prison.

Something odd going on. Hopefully the boy is OK. As based on MJPerry's own tweets he had his son on the evening of 22 March, just after the boy had spent 2 weeks in Isaan. Yet, according the to 1 April Tweet he hadn't seen his son for over a week.

The original news article and subsequent posts by MJPerry fail to mention that the boy was taken to Isaan to 2 weeks in mid March by someone and then returned to his parents. In which case, it would seem strange not to keep a very close eye on the child to prevent him disappearing again.

MJPerry tweet on 22 March:

Never seen Tristan so sad like today after being snatched and taken to Issan for 2 weeks, off to hospital for overdue vaccine & checkup soon 7:00 PM Mar 22nd via Twitter for iPhone

This tweet confirms mother had the child then:

His crazy mother was running around Bangkok with him yesterday and let him go for 9 hours without food, hope it hasn't hurt him too much 7:02 PM Mar 22nd via Twitter for iPhone

+++

Also there seems to be some confusion about when the child was last seen. If my child went missing I'd like to think I'd remember when I last saw him:

MJPerry Tweets:

Latest photo of my 7 month old son who has been kidnapped by my wife's family, not seen for 3 months http://yfrog.com/4jvboj 12:10 AM May 20th via Twitter for iPhone

i.e. 'kidnapped' around 20 Feb

Yeah will have been two weeks on Monday, not sure British emb can do anything, he has dual nationality, lets see what police can do 9:56 AM Apr 8th via Twitter for iPhone

i.e. 'kidnapped' around 26 March

Why doesn't Thailand have child protection laws? Have not seen my son for over a week because he's been kidnapped and police do nothing 11:45 PM Apr 1st via SimplyTweet

i.e. 'kidnapped' before 24 March

But newspaper article on 28 May:

Fraught Martin Perry, 32, has not seen eight-month-old Tristan since he was snatched from a nursery almost two months ago.

i.e. 'kidnapped' around early April, but article later gives the exact date as 30 March

+++

[mrbiggwigg]

Thanks for posting my son's story and photo, if anyone thinks they might have seen him in Bangkok anywhere or has contacts who might be able to get us to get the local police interested in helping us find him, please get in touch.

He was last known to be being held in the Saphan Taksin Soi 8 area.

Martin

I would recomend going to the media

[MikeyIdea]

Martin, you should get a lawyer and go to family court. Without a court order saying otherwise, your child's Thai mother has just as much right to the kid as you do. And having her parents take care of the kid is her right. If you happen to get the kid and take him out of the country without the mother's permission, she can file kidnapping charges against you - and they will take the kid back to Thailand without you, and you may face criminal proceedings. Be careful.

"And having her parents take care of the kid is her right" No, that is incorrect. The father has the right to demand the child back from anyone, except the mother, if he is the legal father. The father can demand the child back from the grand mother also if the mother allows the child to stay there, unless the mother also stays with the child.

"If you happen to get the kid and take him out of the country without the mother's permission, she can file kidnapping charges against you" No, That is incorrect. The concept parental kidnapping does not exist in Thai law. The mother can sue, in juvenile court, to get to see her child but it is not kidnapping.

"and you may face criminal proceedings." No, that is incorrect. It is not criminal proceedings, as explained above

You are right about that the mother has equal rights to the father, that is actually correct...

Edited June 2, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[Zolt]

Martin: Do follow Mikey's legal advice, that is most likely the best and safest way to get your son back. If you can afford it, do also hire a PI to keep tabs on the in-laws and the child's location. Have him take pictures, could be useful for the legal proceedings.

[Me&MrsJones]

I don’t understand westerners. Many of you posters are writing like punishing the kidnapper is the most important thing. Arresting the kidnapper is not the point, Getting the son back is the point – And the deterrent

Good Luck

You say that "getting the son back is the point and deterrent".

"Deterrent" is the key word here. I would agree that getting the son back "is the point" , but i strongly disagree that it is also the "deterrent". Nonsense!

The deterrent is not getting the son back. The deterrent is full punishment for the crime committed, which would serve as a warning to to future would-be kidnappers. Seeing as most foreigners are, with reason, unable to trust the Thai authorities to serve justice fairly through a court of law or with the help of the police, most (in my opinion) foreigners are more interested in serving justice personally. The punishment only fits the crime and serves as a deterrent if the punishment is delivered, you see. Too many foreigners are too soft when they trust that the courts will seek reasonable redress to remedy the point at issue. Do you really think that a paultry fine (which, more than likely, will never be paid) or short custodial sentence will act as a deterrent against cases like Martin's happening in the future? No! This is why "personal justice" has to be served. Only then will people think twice before commiting this heinous crime.

A deterrent being effective or not is easy to weigh up. It's a simple examination or assessment of the balance of preferrence and risk. A would-be kidnapper with intial guilty intent would weigh up the risks of carrying out the crime. If the deterrent outweighs the proceeds from crime it will truly be a deterrent because crime becomes less preferrential.

"shall i go for the big million ransom and risk being tortured slowly....or should i remain a law abiding citizen and not be tortued"

A huge difference between that aforementioned example and this example; "shall i go for the big million ransom and risk a short custodial sentence/ a 2000 baht fine (which i will never actually pay).....or should i remain a law abiding citizen"....

I know which one is more of a deterrent than the other!

[mjperry]

Hi Martin,

"Do you have an idea what is involved to get the court order that you mention?"

You have already done the first step (jaeng kwam), you need to do the second step (saab - as the Thai word for exam), at the same police station. You will need a lawyer for sure, for several reasons; 1) To get the police to want to do it. They don't really want to act against the extended family 2) The get the wording right. That's where a translater is not enough. Sample: The word Jeetana means "to do with a Criminal intent - you invoke criminal law", the normal word "tanng jai" just means "to do - civil law". Big difference between 2 words meaning the same thing. 3) I think a lawyer could help you to off-load your wife better, if you get the names of the people who abducted the child first time written down in Thai (doesn't really matter if the child is not with them/her any longer) then probably/maybe the lawyer can do this without the mother joining at the police station even, easier on her. This could very well be harder on her than it is on you. She probably won't worry as much about the physical health as you do but she will be right in the middle between love for you and your child and respect for her family.

Michael,

That is an amazing post, thank you so much, gives me a good idea of what has happened so far and what I need to do next, my wife already wrote out for me in Thai the name of her mother so I do have that already and I even have her Thai ID card number.

Martin

[Zolt]

I don’t understand westerners. Many of you posters are writing like punishing the kidnapper is the most important thing. Arresting the kidnapper is not the point, Getting the son back is the point – And the deterrent

Good Luck

You say that "getting the son back is the point and deterrent".

"Deterrent" is the key word here. I would agree that getting the son back "is the point" , but i strongly disagree that it is also the "deterrent". Nonsense!

<snip lurid descriptions of torture techniques>

I know which one is more of a deterrent than the other!

I might argue the point: If Martin goes through with getting a lawyer, court order and the cops, and proves that there is a fairly simple, quick, legal way of getting the child back, and the kidnappers won't get any money and be fined instead, then would-be kidnappers would think: "whoops. If it's that easy to foil my money-making plan, maybe I should think of something else."

Now if you go down the brutal way, a would-be kidnapper would think: "Wow, I might get hideously tortured and killed if I do this. On the other hand, that MrsJones guy was just one man, and besides he's rotting in jail now. Not all farang are like him. Let's do this!"

Anyway, good luck to you Martin. Go get your kid back!

Edited June 2, 2010 by Zolt

[GuestHouse]

Martin,

I'd suggest you get in touch with the Paveena foundation, http://www.humantrafficking.org/organizations/247 - If you can get the British Embassy to endorse your contact I'm sure you'll get some support from Paveena.

She and her organization are highly respected and I'm sure will be able to cut through the Thai difficulties with dealing with 'family conflicts'.

Once you have your child back I'd give serious thought to getting your family out of Thailand - This episode is going hang over your relationship with your wife's family and I suspect your wife from now onwwards.

Best of luck.

[Bush]

Hi,

I sent you a PM 4 hours ago, did you not receive it?

Martin

Dear Martin,

I'm still waiting to help you (see my previous post) even it is 02:00 am, because

a child needs help.

I expected to receive your contact 1 - 3 hrs ago, at least.

Ok, take your time (what about your son) I will close now, because I have to work hard.

No I didn't receive until now.

[GungaDin]

Martin.

Have you contacted Andrew-Drummond dot com?

If not, why not?

Hmmm, nil response, & it's no wonder there are doubters posting.

Amazing!

[bkklife]

This is the way I look at it....

1, Martin and his wife have been arguing and probably stressed out with the demands of looking after a young child and with work commitments.

2, His wife puts her son into day care so she could go back to work and probably free her mind a little for the stress.

3, Grandmother found out that her grandson was in day care and wasn't having any of that as she could take care of him in the village or where ever they live....

4, Martins wife is probably feeling relieved somewhat that her son is in good hands and with family and also not having to pay for expensive day care services etc....

5, Martin is starting to miss his son and demands for his return but his wife is thinking Ummmm probably better he stays with the grandmother, but doesn't tell Martin this of course.

6, Martin is getting more and more frustrated and wants to report to the police etc.... His wife plays along with this to keep him happy.

7, Wife and grandmother have been keeping in contact everyday while shes is at work but doesn't tell Martin this of course

8, Grandmother is starting to feel the financial effects of taking care of a young child and requests money from her daughter....Wife doesn't want to pay out of her own money and tells Martin that grandmother is demanding money to make it sounds more dramatic....AS THEY DO !!!

9, 2 Months go by with the wife passifiying her husband and Martin starts to contact facebook, twitter, new papers, thai visa in a last bid effort.

And this is where we are today with no progress what so ever.

Martin, Please don't take this the wrong way but wake up and take action !!! Get a grip please !!!

[mjperry]

Martin.

Have you contacted Andrew-Drummond dot com?

If not, why not?

Hmmm, nil response, & it's no wonder there are doubters posting.

Amazing!

Yes, I have been in contact with Andrew, I have spoken with him extensively on the phone this morning and his Thai wife called my wife at work to get her take on what is happening

Martin

[Arkady]

I am not saying that your wife is definitely culpable in any way but you have to seriously consider that as a possibility or, at least, consider carefully the fact that she has divided loyalties, if her parents are really involved in the abduction. I would suggest that you start taking some steps independently of your wife, just in case.

One would be to hire a private detective (there are many in Thailand that specialize in finding information about spouses, lovers and other family). In addition to getting him to track down your son, you also need to get him to check up on your wife. This is for your son's protection and your peace of mind. Hopefully nothing untoward will be revealed and you can forget that you ever had to do this. You need to find out what she does and who she sees while you are apart. Check if there are any contacts with her family and, very importantly, check to see if she is still in touch with an old boyfriend or has a new one.

Another step would be to hire a lawyer and brief him without your wife present at least the first time.

Unfortunately it is all too common for young Isaan women who marry foreigners to maintain a Thai boyfriend or unregistered husband on the side, who in turn may be maintaining other women on the side. Isaan in-laws also tend to have very high expectations of what they are going to get out of their daughters who marry foreigners. You just have to spend a little time in Isaan villages and have pointed out to you in envious tones all the farm land that foreigners have bought their wives and the massive tasteless mansions that have been built with the donations of wealthy foreign husbands, not to mention the stories of the super stars who bring many foreign different men to visit their village and to make generous donations believing they enjoy a monopoly of the woman's affections. Of course these success stories are only the tip of the iceberg but they set the standard to live up to for Isaan women marrying foreingers. Unfortunately the reality for most is not that they marry a wealthy foreigner who can afford to dump a lot of money in the village without missing it. Most marry a run of the mill foreigner who struggles to get by and fails to grasp the burden of expectations placed on his wife by her family just because he is a foreigner. The families often believe that their son-in-law has short changed them and can become very bitter with their daughter as a result. This case sadly shows all the signs of being one of these stories and that is why you have to start acting independently until you can prove incontrovertibly this is not the case>

[GungaDin]

Martin.

Have you contacted Andrew-Drummond dot com?

If not, why not?

Hmmm, nil response, & it's no wonder there are doubters posting.

Amazing!

Yes, I have been in contact with Andrew, I have spoken with him extensively on the phone this morning and his Thai wife called my wife at work to get her take on what is happening

Martin

Good!

[mjperry]

This is the way I look at it....

1, Martin and his wife have been arguing and probably stressed out with the demands of looking after a young child and with work commitments.

2, His wife puts her son into day care so she could go back to work and probably free her mind a little for the stress.

3, Grandmother found out that her grandson was in day care and wasn't having any of that as she could take care of him in the village or where ever they live....

4, Martins wife is probably feeling relieved somewhat that her son is in good hands and with family and also not having to pay for expensive day care services etc....

That's an interesting conspiracy theory, but it falls down at the first hurdle, I have taken care of my son since the day he was born, at first because my wife had a c-section so was unable to do anything. When my wife did go back to work he stayed with me everyday until these problems started. So she had no reason to feel burdened with him or to pay day care costs until she ran away with him giving her mother an opportunity to have access to him. Her mother took him out of the nursery the day after me and my wife began to sort out our problems and she was due to return home with him, as her mother did not want to see us re-conciliate. I am sure there are many reasons for her to want to do this and believe me I am well aware of most of them but it still gives her no right to keep a child away from his parents.

Martin

[nutjira2010]

If you think you can not find the way out of this. May be better you post your story on PM. Apisit FB

....facebook.com/Abhisit.M.Vejjajiva or call to any Thai TV. press

Or email to here [email protected]. May be they can put more presure on the local police. otherwise you can hire the detective services to find your son.

Good luck