Ceiling Insulation

[chaihot]

I asked our air con guy about this a few weeks ago. He said the Home Mart on Suk near S. Pattaya Road does installations.

They do not perform the installation - they refer to their "home service company" ..... and that is who will be here tomorrow.

[craigt3365]

I asked our air con guy about this a few weeks ago. He said the Home Mart on Suk near S. Pattaya Road does installations.

They do not perform the installation - they refer to their "home service company" ..... and that is who will be here tomorrow.

Understood. Pretty standard practice for these companies. I would love to hear how it goes. I'm in the US now helping my Mom out but will be back early June and will research this more then.

I also researched whirly birds, but was told due to the roof design, it could not hold the weight of them. Bummer.

Best of luck!!!!!

[Naam]

There is another solution for insulation your roof.

I am insulating the top of the ceiling in the attic, below the roof ... NOT the roof of the house.

that's what should be done. spraying foam on the inside of the roof tiles does not prevent the heating up of the attic area and the heat exchange from attic to the rooms. the heat-up just takes more time. if the attic is not properly ventilated and the ceilings not insulated the application of foam is nothing but a waste of money.

[Naam]

I also researched whirly birds, but was told due to the roof design, it could not hold the weight of them.

you mentioned that problem several times Craig. but i still don't understand your roof (tile) structure.

[chaihot]

I also researched whirly birds, but was told due to the roof design, it could not hold the weight of them.

you mentioned that problem several times Craig. but i still don't understand your roof (tile) structure.

No offense to anyone, but I hope we can keep this topic on the insulation itself. The whirlybird issue was on another thread.

[craigt3365]

I also researched whirly birds, but was told due to the roof design, it could not hold the weight of them.

you mentioned that problem several times Craig. but i still don't understand your roof (tile) structure.

It is the basic clay tile roof with steel beams as the main structure crisscrossed with aluminum stringers. Hope I describe that properly!

A bit off topic, but not that much...this was in the op:

The builder did not want to insulate the ceiling, but insisted on Aluminum paper just under roof tile. A good Idea. He would not put in rotating roof vents. Instead of fighting with him, I retrofitted. I had 2 rotating roof ventillators added, after he was done. I put insulation in the ceiling later.

[Naam]

I also researched whirly birds, but was told due to the roof design, it could not hold the weight of them.

you mentioned that problem several times Craig. but i still don't understand your roof (tile) structure.

No offense to anyone, but I hope we can keep this topic on the insulation itself. The whirlybird issue was on another thread.

i [not so] humbly beg to differ. both issues (and a few more) belong together. especially "ceiling, attic, roof insulation" should be discussed as a "package".

[chaihot]

They are scheduled to perform a review of my attic on Wednesday and give their opinion and price on the job. They estimate that installation begins at 80b per sq meter.

A very pleasant Thai man and his wife came to the house this morning. His name was Chanvit (nicknamed "Boy") and is the manager of the "Home Care Service", as the HomeWorks installation service center is called.

He and his wife began measuring the house immediately; climbed into the ceiling to look around; and sat down to perform the necessary calculations. He spoke very little English, but my wife was well prepared in understanding what I wanted and she asked the remaining questions.

I still do not have an answer about whether they are going to cut around wires, or not. But we gave them a picture representing what we expected, and it showed a ceiling with cut and taped rolled insulation. He confirmed that when he finished, my job would look like the picture. He also said they return to the house every 3 months for one year to make sure there are no problems with the installation.

The quote was 80b per square meter for installation; 20b per square meter for "parts and accessories" (which I take to mean tape and lunch!).

Estimated cost WITH labor and materials will be about 267b (USD $8.90) per sq meter.

He calculated the number of rolls the job should take, and told us he could begin the job as soon as the insulation was delivered. He also agreed to reimburse us for the delivery fees from the amount that we would pay him upon completion.

We paid approximately 50% of the labor up front; then went to HomeWorks and purchased the rolled insulation. Surprisingly, they had enough in stock (Stay Cool, 150mm thick, 399b per roll "on-sale")! HW is supposed to deliver tomorrow; and the installation is supposed to start early Saturday morning.

[merijn]

There is another solution for insulation your roof.

I am insulating the top of the ceiling in the attic, below the roof ... NOT the roof of the house.

that's what should be done. spraying foam on the inside of the roof tiles does not prevent the heating up of the attic area and the heat exchange from attic to the rooms. the heat-up just takes more time. if the attic is not properly ventilated and the ceilings not insulated the application of foam is nothing but a waste of money.

mmmh

Attic good ventilated, Check

Ceiling insulated, Check

Guaranteed no leakage, Check

No damaged roof tiles any more, Check

I would say that it is money well spend.

[craigt3365]

They are scheduled to perform a review of my attic on Wednesday and give their opinion and price on the job. They estimate that installation begins at 80b per sq meter.

A very pleasant Thai man and his wife came to the house this morning. His name was Chanvit (nicknamed "Boy") and is the manager of the "Home Care Service", as the HomeWorks installation service center is called.

He and his wife began measuring the house immediately; climbed into the ceiling to look around; and sat down to perform the necessary calculations. He spoke very little English, but my wife was well prepared in understanding what I wanted and she asked the remaining questions.

I still do not have an answer about whether they are going to cut around wires, or not. But we gave them a picture representing what we expected, and it showed a ceiling with cut and taped rolled insulation. He confirmed that when he finished, my job would look like the picture. He also said they return to the house every 3 months for one year to make sure there are no problems with the installation.

The quote was 80b per square meter for installation; 20b per square meter for "parts and accessories" (which I take to mean tape and lunch!).

Estimated cost WITH labor and materials will be about 267b (USD $8.90) per sq meter.

He calculated the number of rolls the job should take, and told us he could begin the job as soon as the insulation was delivered. He also agreed to reimburse us for the delivery fees from the amount that we would pay him upon completion.

We paid approximately 50% of the labor up front; then went to HomeWorks and purchased the rolled insulation. Surprisingly, they had enough in stock (Stay Cool, 150mm thick, 399b per roll "on-sale")! HW is supposed to deliver tomorrow; and the installation is supposed to start early Saturday morning.

Great info, thanks!!! It will be interesting to hear your final report. As you have probably already experienced here, what is said in pre-sales sometimes doesn't happen in fact.

Best of luck!

[chaihot]

(This is NOT my picture). This picture was found on the net and was posted by a foreigner who installed the insulation himself. I used this photo as an example of what I wanted, knowing in advance that the foreigner did a much better job on his insulation project that I would be able to get done in Thailand.

It is a good picture to have to explain what you expect the job will look like (or at least, look something similar to).

[chaihot]

The pictures in this post are from my insulation job using the installers from HomeWorks. Remember as you view this that I did not build this house .......

The results? The maid room/house came out much nicer as there were fewer support hangers and power junction boxes.

The main house was a little more difficult, as it has a recessed, suspended ceiling. I had already had many additional support hangers added as the initial job was inadequate. I had also had a lot of electrical work done to improve the unsafe spiderweb of wires and electrical taped connections.

I am also realistic. As much as I would like to see a finished job to what I consider "US standards", I also know where I am, and that it is best for me to learn to settle for "acceptable".

And I do feel the job is acceptable. Initially he left small sections without any insulation due to stringers or junction boxes, but I didn't accept that and he returned to the attic to plug the holes.

The estimate of the number of rolls needed was off by only three rolls (I had to pay for three additional roles to finish the job). I thought that was pretty good.

A few day-by-day comments:

First day, installers were supposed to be here between 7-7:30am. They arrived at 8:10am, and then had to leave to go buy tape and "accessories". At 9:50am, they were back and worked until 5pm.

The second day, they were supposed to be here around 8. Arrived at 9:30am and worked all day. The third day, they were supposed to be here at noon to finish, but arrived at 1:30ish.

The "accessories":

They bought silver duct tape, as well as clear plastic sheeting and regular tape. The sheeting was used to cover doors and any of our personal effects that were near the ceiling access doors. They covered the items and taped the plastic to keep it in place. I thought that was a nice touch.

The payments:

The charge was 80b per square meter plus 20b per square meter for accessories. HomeWorks charged me 600b delivery, which the insulation installer refunded to me. I paid 399b per roll of 150mm (app 6") of Stay Cool Insulation.

The final cost appears to be 274b (USD $9.13) per square meter or about USD $.85 per square foot.

The results: I run air conditioners all the time. The goal was to trap the cool air in the house and reduce the amount of heat transfer from the attic through the sheet rock ceiling.

In the morning, before I turn on the living room aircons, I find the room to be substantially cooler, which means to me that less heat is transferring into the house.

I am glad that I finally was able to get this job accomplished, and that the actual work provided to me was acceptable.

[craigt3365]

Great info. Thanks! It would be interesting to see if your monthly electricity bills are reduced.

I don't run AC all the time. Most of the year, only at night in our bedroom...so have been considering just doing it over that area of the house. But during the hotter months, we do run it in the afternoons and for sure in the evenings while we are having dinner and watching TV. But usually only for a few hours.

[Cobrabiker]

There is another way, which is to use a type of reflective coating on the roof tiles, this I think is the first line of defence, before it has a chance to heat up the roof, and transfer the heat to the attic, but the problem is, it is in white color only.

I have not done it. Does any one know whether they have it in Thailand? While doing some searches, I found that most claim that it is able to reduce heat up to 30%, which is to say, it will be below 30 degrees all the time, and if you put aluminium sheet above the ceiling board, it will be like your morning temperature all day long.

For your reference:

Ref 1

Ref 2

This is from other forum saying it works:

forum

Edited July 22, 2011 by Cobrabiker

[craigt3365]

Do a search here on ceiling spray. I found these threads, among many others:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/416887-spray-roof-insulation-companies/page__p__4025827__hl__ceiling+spray__fromsearch__1#entry4025827

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/345779-roof-insulation/page__p__3446270__hl__ceiling+spray__fromsearch__1#entry3446270

[Cobrabiker]

Radiant barrier needs to have airspace below, but what you have done was to laid in on top of the ceiling floor, and there is no airspace below, eventually the heat is going to transfer from the foil to the ceiling directly, I bet it is now still better than none, but if you give it some airspace below, you will get the maximum effect.

What about foil-faced fiberglass? Isn’t it just as good as Radiant Barrier?

No. The foil on the fiberglass is in direct contact with the attic floor. Aluminum foil becomes more conductive when in contact with a solid surface. The air space facing the reflective surface is of primary importance.

[craigt3365]

The past week we have had some really sunny days. No clouds at all. So, I thought I would test the ceiling to see how much heat was radiating from it. Guess what...I felt NO heat from the ceiling! I was shocked. I thought I would be able to feel some heat from the ceiling??????

[snarky66]

Have you installed any insulation yet?

[craigt3365]

Have you installed any insulation yet?

I have not. I'm not a big fan of keeping a house closed up and running the AC. We live about 400M from the sea and usually get a really good breeze all day. I've got screens on every window, so I just open up the house and it seems to work fine. Plus, if it's hot, I'm usually in the pool. I have a sala covering part of the pool and I put a table in the jacuzzi section there so I can sit in the pool and eat lunch...or moderate...or read my book!

I've tested the temp inside vs. outside. With the windows and doors open, it's about 1C difference...if that. Many times it's exactly the same. We have a huge covered patio that kinda "collects" the breeze and funnels it through the house.

Plus, I haven't figured out if it's worth it financially. We're usually gone mid April to the beginning of June...we miss the really hot weather. We rarely need to run the AC in the main part of the house. We do run it in the master bed about 7 hours every night.

And to do insulation, they would have to box up all the light fixtures...of which we have many, many, many. A hassle for sure...and not sure it would get done properly.

Sorry...long winded reply...

[snarky66]

I was just gonna add re your comment that the ceiling was not transferring heat into the room, maybe the idea of the insulation is to keep the cool from an air con from "leaking" into the attic area. Comments?

I live in Bangkok & I think I could benefit from an installation like Chaihot has.

[Naam]

I was just gonna add re your comment that the ceiling was not transferring heat into the room, maybe the idea of the insulation is to keep the cool from an air con from "leaking" into the attic area. Comments?

I live in Bangkok & I think I could benefit from an installation like Chaihot has.

an incorrect assumption Snarky even though not clearly worded. of course the ceiling does not transfer any heat but there is considerable heat transfer through the gypsum ceiling boards especially when the attic is not properly ventilated (temperatures can reach 80ºC).

[craigt3365]

I was just gonna add re your comment that the ceiling was not transferring heat into the room, maybe the idea of the insulation is to keep the cool from an air con from "leaking" into the attic area. Comments?

I live in Bangkok & I think I could benefit from an installation like Chaihot has.

Right on. But for us, we don't really air con in most of the house. Pretty much we only use the master bedroom AC, and then for only 6-7 hours a night. I put it on a timer, so can control how long it's on. Luckily, this is working well for us. Believe me, I love AC...but also enjoy the fresh air and breeze we get here.

My mother lives in Las Vegas. Her house runs either AC or heat for pretty much 6 months a year, or more, full time. Insulation is critical and her house is insulated extremely well. Double pane windows, rubber gaskets around all doors, 12" of insulation in the roof and additional insulation added to the walls.

So...each situation is different. I think, in the end, the real factor is how much money will you save by doing it????

[snarky66]

The past week we have had some really sunny days. No clouds at all. So, I thought I would test the ceiling to see how much heat was radiating from it. Guess what...I felt NO heat from the ceiling! I was shocked. I thought I would be able to feel some heat from the ceiling??????

This is the comment I was referring to. My question was not specific to you Craig but more of an engineering puzzle.

[chaihot]

Great info. Thanks! It would be interesting to see if your monthly electricity bills are reduced. ...

I have been asked this question many times ... but my answers are not as clear as some wish.

I did not insulate my attic strictly intending to lower my utility bills. I was upgrading existing aircons to inverters and adding three more inverter aircon units to my house. I run aircon all the time and my intent was to prevent substantial increases, rather than shoot for cost reduction.

Two weeks ago, we finally had the gable vents installed. I will take photos and attach to this thread someday ... Between the insulation and the vents, we notice substantially less heat in the living room after an overnight of no aircon being run. My niece noticed and commented on her room being cooler.

I just summarized my utility bills for 2011. I spent (on the average) approximately 30b LESS PER MONTH than in 2010, with an increase of both aircons and aircon use. I consider the project a wonderful success.

[craigt3365]

Great info! I've got this on my "list" of things to do for this month. I'll head over to HomeMart soon.

Thanks for the update!!!!

[janverbeem]

Great info. Thanks! It would be interesting to see if your monthly electricity bills are reduced. ...

I have been asked this question many times ... but my answers are not as clear as some wish.

I did not insulate my attic strictly intending to lower my utility bills. I was upgrading existing aircons to inverters and adding three more inverter aircon units to my house. I run aircon all the time and my intent was to prevent substantial increases, rather than shoot for cost reduction.

Two weeks ago, we finally had the gable vents installed. I will take photos and attach to this thread someday ... Between the insulation and the vents, we notice substantially less heat in the living room after an overnight of no aircon being run. My niece noticed and commented on her room being cooler.

I just summarized my utility bills for 2011. I spent (on the average) approximately 30b LESS PER MONTH than in 2010, with an increase of both aircons and aircon use. I consider the project a wonderful success.

30 baht less per month is 360 Baht a year or 9000 Baht over the next 25 years.

I bet you not gonne live another 25 years in this house and that the cost was a multiple of 9000 Baht.

[wpcoe]

30 baht less per month is 360 Baht a year or 9000 Baht over the next 25 years.

I bet you not gonne live another 25 years in this house and that the cost was a multiple of 9000 Baht.

But, if I am reading his post correctly, he added three inverter units and the bottom line after the insulation was added was a net savings on his electric bills. Use of an additional three aircon units with a drop in electricity use is a considerable feat, I would think, no?

[Kwasaki]

30 baht less per month is 360 Baht a year or 9000 Baht over the next 25 years.

I bet you not gonne live another 25 years in this house and that the cost was a multiple of 9000 Baht.

But, if I am reading his post correctly, he added three inverter units and the bottom line after the insulation was added was a net savings on his electric bills. Use of an additional three aircon units with a drop in electricity use is a considerable feat, I would think, no?

Yep !! insulation is a good thing, works both ways either to be cool or stay warm, and don't forget the noise reduction too.