Pattaya Atm Charges For Foreign Cards - Update

[jfchandler]

If you were reading the posts above, you'd have already seen mention of various banks that do not charge foreign currency fees to their bank card holders that include:

E-Trade, Charles Schwab, and Capital One. There also are others including I believe Fidelity and/or Vanguard. You'll notice several of these are banks associated with brokerage firms.

For people's information, the E-Trade account, in order to get that benefit, has a minimum balance requirement of $5000 or several other alternatives for avoiding monthly account fees. It's pretty each to meet one of the different options they provide, and thus have a fee-free account. They do not require people to have a brokerage account with them in order to have their Max Rate checking account, which charges no foreign currency fees and refunds other banks' ATM fees, including those from Thailand.

For the Schwab high-yield checking or savings account, they require you to have/open a brokerage account with them. But the brokerage account has no monthly fees and no requirements that you use it in any way. And the Schwab Bank checking and savings accounts themselves have no minimums and no monthly fees.

Capital One is nice because they offer both credit cards and bank cards that carry NO foreign currency fees. (Schwab's VISA credit card also carries no foreign currency fees on purchases made abroad). Capital One's High Yield Money Market account is one of their bank accounts that comes with a no fee ATM card. The MMA account has no monthly fees and no minimums.

If you did a search of ThaiVisa for foreign currency fees and/or ATM fees, you'd find other banks and account listed. But those above are probably among the best known and used ones.

If someone is living abroad and needing to access funds from the U.S., it really pays to have access to one of these kinds of accounts.

Right now I have to use he tools available to me and that is my Chase Debit Card and XE.

XE is cheaper for me right now, but I obviously rather pay $ 307.00 than $ 325.00 for 10000 Bt

Maybe you can tell me what Card you're using ?

[tropo]

As an example, for June 14, the Bank of Thailand site's IER number was 32.427 baht to the dollar. The X-rates number for the same day was an almost identical 32.4051. From monitoring the two data points regularly for the past year, I can vouch for that kind of high correlation being typical.

The IER is the exchange rate that banks use when they exchange currencies among themselves. If someone is using an ATM card where the banks involved charge no fees on either end, then they're going to get a rate very close to that daily rate, allowing for some fluctuations during the day of the withdrawal. I know that because, among other things, I've tracked my own ATM withdrawal exhange rates regularly for more than the past year.

All of the above suggests and makes me believe your comment about the X-rates number being a midpoint number between bank buy and sell rates is not an accurate or correct one.

So 32.427 actual and 32.4051 on X-rates.com doesn't indicate a mid-point rate between buy and sell? If you're exchanging currencies you're buying one and selling another aren't you? The X-rates.com posted value would have to be a mid-point. Nothing else would make sense.

I don't bank in the US, however I use a Citibank account in the Philippines and Australian accounts which all, unfortunately, charge 2% or more. I did see on their website that there is a US Citibank account (gold card) which doesn't charge for international ATM withdrawals.

[jfchandler]

Here's the BKK Bank full set of exchange rates for June 14, the same date we discussed for IER and X-Rates above....

They show all kinds of different buying and selling rates... I'm not sure what anyone could conclude from that, in relation to X-Rates daily postings...

History does show, however, a very high and ongoing correction between the official IER and the daily rate posted at X-Rates...

Here's what X-Rates says on their web site...

What is the source of the data on this site ?

The exchange rates on this site are based on rates released by a few select public free sources. Depending on their availability the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank, Bank of Canada or the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

Most rates up to January 1, 2009 came from the Federal Reserve Bank and the International Monetary Fund.

The X-Rates ongoing high correlation with the IER for the Thai baht is too strong to believe your suggestion that somehow X-Rates each day is somehow picking a midpoint between buy and sell rates. You may think that, but you've shown absolutely no evidence to support your idea...

[SurfRider]

.

"Maybe you can tell me what Card you're using ?"

I have E-Trade Debit Cards on two accounts, but as Chandler menioned above, there are many other cards available. I have a friend with a Capital-One card and he thinks it's one of the best available.

Here's a link where you can compare different cards.

Debit Cards

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[jfchandler]

SR, I only see info about PREPAID debit cards on the link you provided -- not about the regular bank debit cards that most of us use....

Edited June 16, 2010 by jfchandler

[tropo]

The X-Rates ongoing high correlation with the IER for the Thai baht is too strong to believe your suggestion that somehow X-Rates each day is somehow picking a midpoint between buy and sell rates. You may think that, but you've shown absolutely no evidence to support your idea...

Any service or bank publishing one rate is using the mid-market rate. What else could it be? I have no idea why X-rates.com doesn't mention this, but every other currency converter I've checked does indicate that rates are mid-market rates.

Google for information on "mid-market exchange rates" and learn. I'm surprised that a person with your seemingly boundless knowledge of banking doesn't know this.

Examples from websites:

Bank of England:

"Currency exchange rates are the ever-changing prices set to buy or sell a certain unit of foreign currency in exchange for another currency. Some currency listings may be shown as "mid-market rates" that are neither "buy" rates nor "sell" rates. Mid-market rates are derived from mid-point between the buy and sell rates of large-value transactions in the global currency markets. Since "buy rates" and "sell rates" include overheads and profit margins that are set independently by each foreign exchange provider, they will vary depending on who you're talking to, and will always be different than the mid-market rate."

Countless other currency exchange services describe this in detail:

eg. Currency Calculator:

"Q: Are the exchange rates within Currency Calculator buy, sell or mid-market rates?

A: Currency Calculator employs the use of what is called mid-market rates. These rates are not buy or sell rates - they originate from the middle point between the buy and sell rates of large currency exchanges in the global currency markets because buy and sell rates include overhead costs and profit margins that are set independently by each foreign exchange and change depending on the specific transaction and the parties involved. Therefore, the middle market rate is the most accurate for users of Currency Calculator users as this rate cancels out these costs and profits, leaving a rate that is the most pure rate for everyday use."

XE.com:

"Perform currency and foreign exchange calculations using live, mid-market rates.

XE FAQ

8. Are your currency rates "buy" or "sell" rates?

Answer

The rates in our free information services are neither "buy" nor "sell" rates. Instead, they are mid-market rates derived from the mid-point between the "buy" and "sell" rates from global currency markets. Our free information services always list the mid-market rate because it indicates the value of a currency that is not weighted towards buying or selling.

"Buy" and "sell" rates include overheads and profit margins that are independently set by foreign exchange providers; their rates can vary a lot and will differ from the mid-market rate, so we recommend you shop around. To transfer money at the best buy and sell rates guaranteed. XE Trade

IMF:

"Although the indices published by the Bank and the IMF use the same methodology (and weights produced by the IMF), the ERI data may differ because of the actual exchange rates used. The IMF publishes monthly data relating to exchange rates supplied by the relevant central banks. The Bank publishes daily rates using middle market rates for each component currency as observed by the Bank's Foreign Exchange Desk in the London interbank market during the late afternoon."

Please don't come back and tell me that X-Rates.com doesn't use mid-market rates because they don't disclose it. They probably assume that traders are well aware of this.

Edited June 16, 2010 by tropo

[jfchandler]

None of what you recount above explains why, day to day, month to month, the daily X-Rates number for Thai baht nearly matches the Bank of Thailand posted Interbank Exchange Rate, usually within a 1/10th of a baht or so...

I don't know how they derive their posted rates. The truth is, neither do you. But I do know that the BOT IER-X-Rates correlation is close and high...

And really, that's what matters.... that in operation, the X-Rates number for Thai baht serves as a close proxy for the official Interbank Exchange Rate.

More importantly, if people are not getting that kind of rate or very close to it on their ATM or other exchanges, then they're not getting the most out of their money.

That's what people here need to know... not pointless speculation about how X-Rates derives their daily numbers.

XE, by the way, always offers lower posted rates than the IER for Thailand because, of course, they're taking their cut out of all the exchange transactions they handle.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

All this banging on about IER is just nonsense, both Visa and Mastercard set their rates and levy charges as well.

They both say they use wholesale rates. Neither Visa nor Mastercard is a Bank, so Interbank rates are also irrelevant.

If you want to know what exchange rate Visa is offering the consumer, look here

Mastercard; here.

There are a few choices for the UK market. The Nationwide Debit Card charges no fees, but passes on the Visa 1% charge.

Santander Zero card has no charges, but you need to make sure that the account is funded. Faster Payments should take care of that.

There is also the Post Office credit card for purchases.

[SurfRider]

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"All this banging on about IER is just nonsense, both Visa and Mastercard set their rates and levy charges as well."

Interesting information, but the bottom-line is what that piece of plastic in you wallet is going to do for you when you insert it into an ATM.

Are you getting the most out of your hard earned money or not? People who don't mind setting fire to a few thousand Baht each year, or tossing it out the window, shouldn't be wasting their time reading this thread.

If you've done your homework and arranged your financial affairs to your advantage, you'll get the best available value for your money in transferring funds from a foreign source into Thailand. If you haven't bothered, you won't . . . Simple as that!

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[Jiu-Jitsu]

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"All this banging on about IER is just nonsense, both Visa and Mastercard set their rates and levy charges as well."

Interesting information, but the bottom-line is what that piece of plastic in you wallet is going to do for you when you insert it into an ATM.

Are you getting the most out of your hard earned money or not? People who don't mind setting fire to a few thousand Baht each year, or tossing it out the window, shouldn't be wasting their time reading this thread.

If you've done your homework and arranged your financial affairs to your advantage, you'll get the best available value for your money in transferring funds from a foreign source into Thailand. If you haven't bothered, you won't . . . Simple as that!

.

Yes I am, thank you.

[syd barrett]

*** UPDATE REQUEST ***

Is Bank Ayudhya still 150 Baht fee-free for British VISA card holders?

[sotsira]

*** UPDATE REQUEST ***

Is Bank Ayudhya still 150 Baht fee-free for British VISA card holders?

No, they now charge the 150bt fee.

[timekeeper]

Naka, you probably don't need or want an AEON bank card. To the best of my knowledge, they only do credit cards, not debit cards, since they are a Japan based credit card provider.

But as mentioned, you don't need any AEON card to do fee-free withdrawals from their ATMs in Thailand. Any foreign card with a VISA or MC logo will work fine, along with several other varieties such as JCB and others.

As for AEON's withdrawals limits, they have set amounts listed on the menu screen of their ATMs, up to 10,000 baht I believe. But you can choose your own amount, and enter it using the number keys on the ATM. I believe I've pulled 20,000 from their ATMs at some point.

But you also have to be aware if the home country bank card you're using has its own daily limit on ATM withdrawals, which most do, and what that daily limit is.

.

"i am going to apply for an aeon card....wonder why it can afford to be so generous with farangs"

AEON is a Japanese Bank and not a member of the Thai Banking Cartel.

But the Debit Cards that are *NOT* charged the 150 Baht Thai ATM fee are foreign Debit Cards, where the funds are coming from a foreign bank account that already exists, not necessarily from an AEON account.

If you already have a foreign debit card, it should work fine in an AEON ATM -- I'm not sure that opening an AEON account would accomplish anything. The funds would still need to originate from a foreign account.

as my last count as of last april 16.... for income tax reporting purpose, there are several debit cards within the family members.... but we never use it at aeon atm to date....

next time when we are close to aeon atm facilities.... we shall try to withdraw 100k and see if that would incur a 150 thb service surcharge....

thx much for the info....

if your bank will allow it AEON will allow withdrawals of 40 notes in one transaction