Education For Farang/Thai Children

[brownbear]

First of all, moderators, if this in the wrong place or has been addressed before please transfer it (with notice please).

My open question relates to children such as my own who are have dual nationality, UK and Thai in this case and the decisions we, as parents, have to make in terms of their short, medium and long term education.

My children currently go to a school hosting a British based curriculum which can reasonably be classified as 'International', they are both at the primary stage and so we do have options still. The focus in this school and I understand, in many similar schools throughout Thailand, is to provide an education equivalent to that provided in the UK. Apart from the expense I have no issues with the education being provided and in fact consider the 'international' element of it to be a big bonus. I regret that from my own observations, the educational standards, per se, in the UK at least, appear to have gone down since I left school in the mid 70s. Purely my observations and I'm hardly likely to send my kids to an international school other than a British one but maybe I am missing out there.

All is fine until it gets to the post university stage: then what happens? My wife and I (mixed marriage) have no intention of returning to the UK. What then happens to our 'UK educated' children? It appears the flaw with some of the so called 'international' schools here is that they tend to ignore the fundamentals of the country of residence. In Singapore that would likely be less of a problem (perhaps); in Europe or the US and several other nations, equally so. In Thailand, what advantage comes from dual nationality without the ability to be entirely fluent in at least the two languages of their birthright, the Thai language likely being the one to suffer?

Part of this no doubt is because gaining fluency, written as well as spoken, in Thai is no easy achievement. It certainly strikes me that my children will not achieve the latter without additional support from their parents and we cannot rely on the school to provide it.

In our imagination, let's go forward 30 years in time. A whole generation of bilingual, farangs capable of holding their own with the locals: would would be the implications? For the rest of Europe this already is a reality. I am not implying anything untoward in this, but, if our kids do not grow up being at least bilingual, there is less advantage to them. Does that favour the Thai nation in general of not?

Anyone have any views on this topic as a whole? Please feel free to vent...

Many thanks

[IMA_FARANG]

An excellant leter. It's nice to have someone who asks intelligent questions (not to say that ALL posters on this forum don't always ask intelligent questions, I hasten to add).

Your best deal for a good education in Thailand is to have your children attend an international school. You're exactly right there. But it is expensive, of course, as always; the caveat being it also requires an effort from the student to gain that "good education". You can lead a horse to water...etc. as the saying goes.

If your children stay in Thailand having a good fluency in Thai is the best prospect. They will proabbly gain that from their Thai friends that they play with. Children learn languages fast while they are still young. If your partner (I don't know if you are male or female, so I won't just say your wife) speaks Thai, have the children speak Thai to that person and English to you. That way they develop a fluency in both languages.

It seems like you're doing everything right. With some help and participation (i.e. working at it) your children should do well.

You're right, what Thailand needs in the future is an educated and internationally orientated population. Unfortunately a lot of things are against that in Thailand right now. But it will change,soooner or later, and I hope your children will be part of that change.

P.S. You are right, "British" school standards have gone down compared to what they used to be. In the U.S. also, what I had to do in school is now longer the standard required either. For example, they now require only 1 year of what you Brits would call "Maths" in school. I was required to have 4 years, including at least one semester of Algebra and Intoduction to Calculus for graduation. Now, as I said, it's one year in "Maths" for that same degree. Oh well, so it goes.

Edited June 11, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[roamer]

"All is fine until it gets to the post university stage: then what happens? My wife and I (mixed marriage) have no intention of returning to the UK. What then happens to our 'UK educated' children? It appears the flaw with some of the so called 'international' schools here is that they tend to ignore the fundamentals of the country of residence. In Singapore that would likely be less of a problem (perhaps); in Europe or the US and several other nations, equally so. In Thailand, what advantage comes from dual nationality without the ability to be entirely fluent in at least the two languages of their birthright, the Thai language likely being the one to suffer?"

Talking of university, I assume your talking of them going through the Thai system ? Then no doubt by that time they will have the desired fluency in Thai, and that is just as well. Education standards may be slipping in the UK, its a moot point, oft repeated and I'm not sure its one I agree with. Lots of regional variations. My wife and I looked very carefully at International schools in Thailand for our daughter before we decided she was better of in the UK system from 11 onwards. Many different factors came into play, one of them was that we were determined to avoid a Thai university. Last time I looked only Chula managed to get into the top 500 ranked universities and very much towards the bottom of the pile I recall.

A degree from a Thai Uni certainly doesn't cut much ice with employers outside Thailand, in my experience even within LOS a job applicant with an overseas degree will always be at the top of the pile. Also noticed over the years that many Thai's who've got overseas post grad qualifications explore every avenue to remain there. For those who have dual nationality they have almost invariably decided to pursue their careers overseas.

I also think if you have kids that grow up within the International school system,that are also dual nationals, the lure of the west will prove a pretty strong magnet for them at some stage. They may well view their fluency in English as far more important than their fluency in Thai.

[Pakboong]

An excellant leter. It's nice to have someone who asks intelligent questions (not to say that ALL posters on this forum don't always ask intelligent questions, I hasten to add).

Your best deal for a good education in Thailand is to have your children attend an international school. You're exactly right there. But it is expensive, of course, as always; the caveat being it also requires an effort from the student to gain that "good education". You can lead a horse to water...etc. as the saying goes.

If your children stay in Thailand having a good fluency in Thai is the best prospect. They will proabbly gain that from their Thai friends that they play with. Children learn languages fast while they are still young. If your partner (I don't know if you are male or female, so I won't just say your wife) speaks Thai, have the children speak Thai to that person and English to you. That way they develop a fluency in both languages.

It seems like you're doing everything right. With some help and participation (i.e. working at it) your children should do well.

You're right, what Thailand needs in the future is an educated and internationally orientated population. Unfortunately a lot of things are against that in Thailand right now. But it will change,soooner or later, and I hope your children will be part of that change.

P.S. You are right, "British" school standards have gone down compared to what they used to be. In the U.S. also, what I had to do in school is now longer the standard required either. For example, they now require only 1 year of what you Brits would call "Maths" in school. I was required to have 4 years, including at least one semester of Algebra and Intoduction to Calculus for graduation. Now, as I said, it's one year in "Maths" for that same degree. Oh well, so it goes.

If Britain is changing for the worse, how is it we can expect Thailand to change for he better? Relative to start points, etc... I would argue that due to the economy, things will naturally change for the worse universally, as is currently the case with most developed countries. Home school an international program and hire your own tutor to oversee the process. Selecting who you want to teach your children is the key, not the building they sit in while the school chosen teacher assumes that responsibility.

[sarahsbloke]

Educating your children to the stage where they no longer fit into the society around them is wrong (and might even be considered child abuse).

If you expect your children to live in Thailand, they should be going to the government school or a private Thai school.

The advantage they get, at home, from learning English should be enough to ensure their success, and yet allow them to retain a chance of personal happiness.

You should also be educating your children with some career aim in mind.

I always suggest mine follow the doctor/dentist/pharmacist (and maybe nurse) path as this provides a good middle class living in any country of the world.

PS

If they don't attend Thai school they will be unlikely to ever be able to read and write Thai correctly, you can't learn this by playing with Thai children.

Edited June 13, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[singa-traz]

Part of this no doubt is because gaining fluency, written as well as spoken, in Thai is no easy achievement. It certainly strikes me that my children will not achieve the latter without additional support from their parents and we cannot rely on the school to provide it.

I know a few families who have their kids in "International school" in Thailand, and have recognized this and are providing private tuition in Thai for their children, especially for reading and writing.

[phuketrichard]

I had my daughter ( age 16 ) in BIS here in Phuket but moved her to QSI becuase she is half thai /half american. I have no intnestions of living permanently in the states BUT for in state turition we are thinking of moving back to Ca for her senior year ( a $23,000 savings on the first yea Tuition)

I don't care for the IP program taught at the british shcools as it forces the child at age 14 or so to choose which direction they wish to go in and i cant undertand how any 154 yera old knows. I sill have no idea what I want to do....

I dont know about your kids but mine speaks Thai fluently but reads/write at about a 8 years olds level. No intenrational school prepares them for continuing on to a Thai unversity BUT there are plenty of good Thai universites that teach in English.

One thing you really have to consider is if they do study at a thai unversity the degree is worthless outside thailand and if they choose to remain in Thailand they will be hired as a Thai at thai wages that speaks english so there goes all that money you spent on an international school education. :-)

My adivce, and what i am following, is send them to the UL or OZ or America and let them have a choce for their future.

[champken]

This topic is very interesting to me as i have a 22 month old and have started weighing up all the options as regards his future education, i must say as of now i am leaning towards sending him to a good Thai private school in the early stages of his education perhaps until he is 6 or 7, and would then look to review the situation again at that stage, i do believe another member on another thread touched on the fact that Asia is quite likely to have more opportunities than the west in years to come so i think it is important that your child should be educated within the Thai system, preferably somewhere that includes English language education, i personally don't think an international school education here in Thailand would give your child any real advantages unless you or they intend for them to pursue a career in the west in which case unless they have been educated at the very best international schools in Bangkok they may well find themselves not as well educated as western children, and on pursuing a career in Thailand, very definitely at a disadvantage to well educated Thai kids.

[garyh]

While learning Thai is very important English will lead to far more opportunities outside Thailand and a lot within as Thai is not used much outside Thailand.

[brownbear]

Thanks everyone for their comments: some alternative views here and all very interesting.

To be honest I had not even thought about university as that is a long way off. however, now that I have, I would most certainly like my children to have the option of attending a western university and therefore it strikes me that having them follow the British curriculum at a recognised international school in Thailand is about the best option for achieving that. They have UK passports and are fully cognisant of their British heritage and although there are alternatives, it is highly likely they would wish to study in the UK. My son has already shown signs of thinking in those terms.

Personally I do not believe in selecting a career for my children, their vocation should be their choice. By way of example only, I have enjoyed a fantastic international career but to be honest, my parents would not have had a clue in what profession I was likely to end up in. I had several options when I left school and I initially chose a path that was not suitable for me and it was chosen because I was advised that direction was a good one to go in. Eventually I found my own alternative path and have never looked back.

The various replies have reaffirmed for me the desirability of encouraging my children to achieve fluency in Thai so I will continue supplementing their school education in that way. Incidentally, they are also studying Mandarin and if they can achieve fluency in Thai and English and have some spoken Mandarin in their armoury as well, then I consider they will have a good start wherever they may chose to settle down. After that it will be up to them if they can make a success of their careers. I'll help as much as I can of course.

[bkk_mike]

My 100% Thai niece has just got her visa to study in the UK, so it is possible to study abroad despite going to a Thai school her whole life.

Admittedly her English is only good eough currently to get her into an English language course, and from there, she would have to go into an induction/foundation course before starting first year (I assume partly because everyone passes in Thailand, the induction course is necessary to confirm that they'd be up to studying for a degree).

ie, Example of requirements for Thai student in the UK

The bigger issue is the expense as education costs aren't getting lower anywhere, and seem to only ever increase at a rate well above inflation. (And a British child raised abroad isn't entitled to the subsidised University fees of one raised in the UK).

[anonymouse]

Thanks everyone for their comments: some alternative views here and all very interesting.

To be honest I had not even thought about university as that is a long way off. however, now that I have, I would most certainly like my children to have the option of attending a western university and therefore it strikes me that having them follow the British curriculum at a recognised international school in Thailand is about the best option for achieving that. They have UK passports and are fully cognisant of their British heritage and although there are alternatives, it is highly likely they would wish to study in the UK. My son has already shown signs of thinking in those terms.

Personally I do not believe in selecting a career for my children, their vocation should be their choice. By way of example only, I have enjoyed a fantastic international career but to be honest, my parents would not have had a clue in what profession I was likely to end up in. I had several options when I left school and I initially chose a path that was not suitable for me and it was chosen because I was advised that direction was a good one to go in. Eventually I found my own alternative path and have never looked back.

The various replies have reaffirmed for me the desirability of encouraging my children to achieve fluency in Thai so I will continue supplementing their school education in that way. Incidentally, they are also studying Mandarin and if they can achieve fluency in Thai and English and have some spoken Mandarin in their armoury as well, then I consider they will have a good start wherever they may chose to settle down. After that it will be up to them if they can make a success of their careers. I'll help as much as I can of course.

My view pretty much mirrors your own regarding their vocation being of their own choice and also for them to learn Mandarin.

I can't afford to send them to International school but my son is at a bi-lingual school and I try to do as much reading and writing English with him outside of school as possible.

I feel that they will have more opportunities in Asia rather than trying to compete with their Western counterparts, hopefully

Edited June 14, 2010 by anonymouse

[brownbear]

Thanks Anonymouse and you are absolutely correct about the expense. My plans depend on me being able to afford them and that is not guaranteed: I will do what I can whilst I can. If the brown stuff does hit the fan I will probably be back on here for more advice - provided I can afford the internet connection!

[PattayaParent]

Your kids can still go to a UK university if they have completed a British curriculum in an International School in Thailand, you will just be required to pay for them as they will be classed as an overseas student.

Also the International Schools teach Thai reading and writing so they will get some basis of the language which you can suppplement with additional teaching and providing reading material.

So no need for them to miss out on either opportunity.

[MikeyIdea]

Have you considered a combination of bilingal and international? I certainly do not think that the Thai education technique is good but there are still many advantages from exposure to both to consider.

I think this thread contains a lot of thoughtful information How To Best Combine Schools, Teaching Techniques, Culture And Tradition - Thailand Forum

One quote from that thread

A toddler today will finish university in 20 years time, she will then work for 40 years after that. Half way down this toddlers working life, that's 40 (forty) years from now by the way, China will be the world leader economically, India will be second and America and the EU will have struggled to stand still economically for the last 20 years. The Asian economies on overdrive driven by several billion diligent people who are pushed forward not only by the positive feeling of living in a country where things gets better every year, but also by an improved educational system will have taken over the world economy. America and the EU will still be powerful of course but it is going to be at the level of struggling to stand still.

I wouldn't miss the Asian bit for "better education" - my personal opinion