"หลังขดหลังแข็ง"

[DavidHouston]

Friends,

Please help me understand the following sentence:

"บางคนโชคดีเจอกลุ่มเห็ดอ่อนๆเพิ่งเริ่มโผล่จากดิน กลับกลายเป็นทุกขลาภที่ทำให้ต้องหลังขดหลังแข็งนั่งเฝ้า"

My preliminary hypothesis is that the sentence means:

"Some people are very lucky and find clusters of tender mushrooms just emerging from the soil. [Finding these mushrooms] provides you a well-earned reward for the back-breaking work of sitting [hunched over] and waiting [for the mushrooms to emerge]."

Some interesting vocabulary here:

ทุกขลาภ [N] a gain through suffering; gain through suffering; suffering windfall; hard-earned reward [Lexitron]

หลังขดหลังแข็ง - stiff, aching, back-breaking . . . [Domnern Sathienpong]

What do you think? Thanks.

Edited June 12, 2010 by DavidHouston

[mikenyork]

I think perhaps "provides them" instead of "provides you". And doesn't กลับ กลายเป๊น mean becomes in which case it could be rendered "which comes to be a backbreaking "reward" as you have to sit hunched over guarding them.

[Peppy]

Your version's just fine, David. For the sake of argument, though, here's another take on it:

"บางคนโชคดีเจอกลุ่มเห็ดอ่อนๆเพิ่งเริ่มโผล่จากดิน กลับกลายเป็นทุกขลาภที่ทำให้ต้องหลังขดหลังแข็งนั่งเฝ้า"

"Some were fortunate enough to find clusters of young mushrooms just starting to emerge from the earth, a hard-earned reward for the backbreaking work of sitting and watching for them."

[mikenyork]

With all due respect, I have to disagree with the above two translations. Neither, in my view, takes into account the phrase กลับกลายเป๊น. And while ทุกขลาภ does mean reward, it also means

"ลาถที่ได้มาแล้วมีทุกข์ติตตามมาด้วย" พจนุกรม ฉบับราชบัณฑิตยสถาน พฺ ศฺ ๒๕๔๒ p. 533

The sentence, to me, means that while finding newly sprung mushrooms is fortunate for the finder, it brings along with it the burden of watching over (เฟ้า) the mushrooms. A very Buddhist thought that means that even the "good" things we become attached to inevitably bring in their wake suffering

[DavidHouston]

Mike,

Thank you for that very thoughtful and insightful response. Here is the entire paragraph"

เห็ดโคนสดนอกจากจะอร่อยแล้วยังมีราคาดี คนเก็บเห็ดต่างแย่งกันที่จะไปยึดครองพื้นที่แปลงเห็ดธรรมชาติเป็นคนแรกบางคนออกลุยป่าหาเห็ดยามค่ำคืนเพื่อหวังที่จะลดคู่แข่งบางคนโชคดีเจอกลุ่มเห็ดอ่อนๆ เพิ่งเริ่มโผล่จากดินกลับกลายเป็นทุกขลาภที่ทำให้ต้องหลังขดหลังแข็งนั่งเฝ้าเพื่อรอเวลาให้เห็ดโตพอที่จะเก็บเกี่ยวได้ ต้องหาใบไม้ใบหญ้ามากลบอำพรางต้องคอยนอนหมอบเมื่อมีคนเดินผ่านมาไม่ว่าไกลหรือใกล้พลางภาวนาไม่ให้คนอื่นคนใดมาพบปะหรือผ่านเจอ

Based on your comment, the RID definition, and the larger contest, please provide us an English rendering of the subject sentence. Thanks.

[DavidHouston]

Here is my rendering of the context. Please feel free to fill in a translation of the subject sentence. Thanks for your assistance:

เห็ดโคนสดนอกจากจะอร่อยแล้วยังมีราคาดี

Fresh 'termite mushrooms' are not only delicious, but arevery valuable as well.

คนเก็บเห็ดต่างแย่งกันที่จะไปยึดครองพื้นที่แปลงเห็ดธรรมชาติเป็นคนแรก

Mushroom collectors are highly competitive in trying to bethe first ones to control areas in which natural mushrooms grow.

บางคนออกลุยป่าหาเห็ดยามค่ำคืนเพื่อหวังที่จะลดคู่แข่ง

Some [collectors] to out and root around forests looking formushrooms in the middle of the night in order to reduce the number ofcompetitors.

บางคนโชคดีเจอกลุ่มเห็ดอ่อนๆเพิ่งเริ่มโผล่จากดิน

Some people are lucky and find clusters of young mushroomsjust emerging from the earth.

กลับกลายเป็นทุกขลาภที่ทำให้ต้องหลังขดหลังแข็งนั่งเฝ้าเพื่อรอเวลาให้เห็ดโตพอที่จะเก็บเกี่ยวได้

???????

ต้องหาใบไม้ใบหญ้ามากลบอำพราง

[Those who do locate the emerging mushrooms] gather largeleaves to hide [what they have found].

ต้องคอยนอนหมอบเมื่อมีคนเดินผ่านมาไม่ว่าไกลหรือใกล้พลางภาวนาไม่ให้คนอื่นคนใดมาพบปะหรือผ่านเจอ

They sleep, crouch, and wait [over their discovery] whenother [potential collectors] walk by, whether close by or far away and while[fervently] hoping that other [mushroom seekers] will not accidently noticetheir find.

[mikenyork]

David: Thank you for the kind words. I couldn't resist taking a crack at the whole passage:

Fresh Thai common white mushrooms, besides being delicious, bringa good price. People gathering mushroomscompete to be the first to control the areas that are natural for mushrooms,((note: I struggle with the word แปลงwhich seems to me to be a verb, but can’t mean “change” and doesn’t really seemto fit as a classifier particle for พื้นที่ either)) going out into theforest at night in the hope of avoiding competitors. Some people are fortunate to find a clusterof young mushrooms, freshly sprung from the earth, (but even) their good luckbrings suffering along with it; an aching back from squatting over themushrooms to guard them until they reach harvest age, finding leaves and grass to camouflage them, hiding when passersby whether close by or faraway, (and) praying that no one will come and discover (the mushrooms).

[DavidHouston]

Excellent rendering! Thank you, Mike.

I think that แปลง in the context of "ยึดครองพื้นที่แปลงเห็ดธรรมชาติ" is precisely a classifier for "พื้นที่". I am not sure, however, why the author felt it necessary to use a classifier in this position.

Edited June 13, 2010 by DavidHouston

[mikenyork]

I think I just got it. The sentence should read (if written out in full) พื้นที่ (( ฃึ้งเป๊น)) แปลงเห๊ด

แปลง can mean on its own a garden plot prepared for planting. Here it means a spot that is naturally a good place for mushrooms, as though it were a prepared garden plot.

What do all you-all think?ื

[GarryP]

I think I just got it. The sentence should read (if written out in full) พื้นที่ (( ฃึ้งเป๊น)) แปลงเห๊ด

แปลง can mean on its own a garden plot prepared for planting. Here it means a spot that is naturally a good place for mushrooms, as though it were a prepared garden plot.

What do all you-all think?ื

Very good.

[Peppy]

I think I just got it.  The sentence should read (if written out in full)  พื้นที่  (( ฃึ้งเป๊น)) แปลงเห๊ด

แปลง can mean on its own a garden plot prepared for planting.  Here it means a spot that is naturally a good place for mushrooms, as though it were a prepared garden plot.

What do all you-all think?ื

Very good.

Yes, I agree. And Mike, nice translation of the whole thing, and thank you for pointing out that ทุกขลาภ is not quite the same as a "hard-earned reward".

Perhaps we could say that learning is a form of ทุกขลาภ, since in order to learn new things, one must often undergo the suffering of acknowledging one's former ignorance in addition to the mental and physical effort required to learn. Very Buddhist indeed.

[mikenyork]

I think I just got it. The sentence should read (if written out in full) พื้นที่ (( ฃึ้งเป๊น)) แปลงเห๊ด

แปลง can mean on its own a garden plot prepared for planting. Here it means a spot that is naturally a good place for mushrooms, as though it were a prepared garden plot.

What do all you-all think?ื

Very good.

Yes, I agree. And Mike, nice translation of the whole thing, and thank you for pointing out that ทุกขลาภ is not quite the same as a "hard-earned reward".

Perhaps we could say that learning is a form of ทุกขลาภ, since in order to learn new things, one must often undergo the suffering of acknowledging one's former ignorance in addition to the mental and physical effort required to learn. Very Buddhist indeed.

[mikenyork]

Very good. Acknowledging ignorance. Now there's an area where I have a lot of practice (because I keep finding new layers of ignorance as I get older).