Do I Need A Work Permit To Sing

[ladykata]

On phuket the company setup will cost around 25.000-30.000 baht.

Hi, yes thats what i thought and even as high as 80,000 baht, but the reality is that if you use no lawyers and go directly to the thai government yourself the actual cost for a 2 million baht company is 8,000 baht, i know hard to believe, the rest is the commission for the lawyers, thats from the thai government official i spoke to only last week at company house in phuket town, so even the 25,000 low figure of yours the lawyer still makes 17,000 baht profit, OK but thats a 70% margin of profit, i'm afraid i'd rather do the running around myself

the costs you mention are under the governement fees and can't be correct :

Fee per 1 Million Baht of capitalization

5, 600

Fee for certification of document

900

Fee for duty stamp

420

total 12520

don't forget you'll also need to advertise the formation of your company twice in newspaper aswell as register the company to the vat office.

Thanks, you could be totally right, i'm sure there will be some hidden charges, like everything here there'l be something outstanding, but still i'm hoping nothing like the 40-80,000 mentioned by lawyers, i think a real figure of under 15.000 would be a bonus over the lawyers fees. your figure for a 1 million baht company would be about right to get it to a 2 million baht company would be in the 15,000 baht mark. has anyone the real figures for a 2 million baht company going directly to the Thai authoritys, no lawyers

[LivinginKata]

Thanks, you could be totally right, i'm sure there will be some hidden charges, like everything here there'l be something outstanding, but still i'm hoping nothing like the 40-80,000 mentioned by lawyers, i think a real figure of under 15.000 would be a bonus over the lawyers fees. your figure for a 1 million baht company would be about right to get it to a 2 million baht company would be in the 15,000 baht mark. has anyone the real figures for a 2 million baht company going directly to the Thai authoritys, no lawyers

Yes, I would agree with the 12,520 baht figure. That was about what we paid in direct fees when we set up our company (many years ago). We did it ourselves. But don't forget you have to factor in some 'fees' to get the Thai 'shareholders' to sign the forms and supply copies of IDs. Also a bit of cost for transportation as you have a lot of running about to do, cost of adverts & loads of photocopies. Plus a whole lot of your time (& patience). So the low figure of 25,000 baht lawyer's package charge is not such a bad deal for someone who does not the time (or patience).

[WarpSpeed]

Yes, not so costly but I just read the other day that while your application is being processed you can work for up to 3 months so by making the application you could be working and most gigs would not be that long in one place..

Really, I have always been under the impression that you cannot work at all until the WP is actually issued.

Yeah so was I and was shocked to read otherwise, but the other day in another thread there was a link to a government website that clearly stated that you had 3 months to obtain a work permit provided it was applied for and were legally allowed to work during that maximum period, I saved the link but haven't had the chance to search it yet, I hope I can remember what file I saved it in..

[WarpSpeed]

Yes, not so costly but I just read the other day that while your application is being processed you can work for up to 3 months so by making the application you could be working and most gigs would not be that long in one place..

Really, I have always been under the impression that you cannot work at all until the WP is actually issued.

I have to agree with livinginkata, the work permit must be in place from what i've been told, maybe theres a cover note/ permit they issue while the original permit is being processed, either way it's still information i didn't know and can ask about, so thank you

Nope! I'll search the link, read it myself not second hand...

[LivinginKata]

Yeah so was I and was shocked to read otherwise, but the other day in another thread there was a link to a government website that clearly stated that you had 3 months to obtain a work permit provided it was applied for and were legally allowed to work during that maximum period, I saved the link but haven't had the chance to search it yet, I hope I can remember what file I saved it in..

I've known plenty of people using a fancy expensive lawyer who were totally ticked off waiting up to 6 weeks for their work permit to be approved, as they were not allowed to work, big no-no. Might be a new rule about that, but I very much doubt it.

[simon43]

My Thai accountant in Phuket charged me 15,000 baht to register a 1 million baht capital ltd company, including all government fees. Sounded a bargain to me. I've used this accountant for a few years now and she is very good at her job - but speaks no English.

Simon

[LivinginKata]

My Thai accountant in Phuket charged me 15,000 baht to register a 1 million baht capital ltd company, including all government fees. Sounded a bargain to me. I've used this accountant for a few years now and she is very good at her job - but speaks no English.

Simon

Yes, the registration fees for a 1 million baht company are under 8,000 baht, so 15,000 baht charge is reasonable enough. You can get this sort of price from a small independent Thai lawyer who speaks little English. The big companies that cater for Farangs want the big bucks. That why we use a Thai accountant who speaks no English and works from home. Very very reasonable annual charge to process our annual audit.

[WarpSpeed]

Yeah so was I and was shocked to read otherwise, but the other day in another thread there was a link to a government website that clearly stated that you had 3 months to obtain a work permit provided it was applied for and were legally allowed to work during that maximum period, I saved the link but haven't had the chance to search it yet, I hope I can remember what file I saved it in..

I've known plenty of people using a fancy expensive lawyer who were totally ticked off waiting up to 6 weeks for their work permit to be approved, as they were not allowed to work, big no-no. Might be a new rule about that, but I very much doubt it.

Adamant about it being a big yes yes!! There is more info in this link but I can not find the actual section addressing it yet..But suffice it to say I've found few lawyers since being here that did anything more then just take my money and still had no clue... But begin with this: BOI of Thailand English version

[LivinginKata]

Adamant about it being a big yes yes!! There is more info in this link but I can not find the actual section addressing it yet..But suffice it to say I've found few lawyers since being here that did anything more then just take my money and still had no clue... But begin with this: BOI of Thailand English version

Hmmm ... many privileges for companies that are BOI registered. But come on, how many small companies set up by Farangs for the purpose of obtaining a WP or buying a small property are BOI registered ??

[sibeymai]

As for the 51% Thai shareholders taking over the company you can allocate voting rights to the shareholdings. When I set up a company a few years ago, while I held only 20% of the shares the shares I held had a 6 to 1 voting right over the other 80% shares. Therefore I could not be outvoted by the other shareholders.

[LivinLOS]

I think the OP has no clue to the costs she is about to run into.. Effectively running a company to allow you to sing as a profession here, is simply not cost effective.

The OP is worried about a few 1000 baht startup fees. But doest seem to have considered

VAT registration / administration / payments.

Annual accounts processing

Min wage for westerners 50 - 60k per month

Thai Income tax on min wage

Corporations taxes

Thai employees, and all of the social costs that must be met for employment.

Etc etc etc.

Not all of these apply directly to the WP itself but if your looking to get a visa extension from immigration based working not only will this be needed but IIRC you need a few years history of it. So until that point you also have to budget on adding in lots of visa running (for a couple of years), including getting your non imm B overseas also.

These costs will dwarf any concern about a 25k company set up fee. In not only money but time and commitment. Even closing a company costs money here.

Thailand is a country to come to with money, not come to to make money.

[LivinginKata]

I think the OP has no clue to the costs she is about to run into.. Effectively running a company to allow you to sing as a profession here, is simply not cost effective.

Got to agree with you there LOS. Setting up a registered company just to obtain a WP for singing songs it a hard road to hoe. Lots of consequential costs every month, lots of headaches.

People I know in the entertainment business have had their employers deal with the WP problem. That would be my recommendation to this lady.

[ladykata]

I think the OP has no clue to the costs she is about to run into.. Effectively running a company to allow you to sing as a profession here, is simply not cost effective.

Got to agree with you there LOS. Setting up a registered company just to obtain a WP for singing songs it a hard road to hoe. Lots of consequential costs every month, lots of headaches.

People I know in the entertainment business have had their employers deal with the WP problem. That would be my recommendation to this lady.

Hi guys, i totally agree with what you are saying, i haven't come to thailand as a person looking or having to work , i'm lucky enough to be classed as retired in my early 40's, but my passion is professional entertaining and singing, i heard a great quote"how to make a small fortune in thailand, come with a big one", i think you misunderstand my original point, i just wanted procedure and price for a company and work permit, As for earnings i would start on a contract at this present time as offered of 150,000 per month, being reviewed at the high and peak season, i don't know anywhere or anyone can make that figure out of there passion and hobby. I'm sure nobody in the know would think entertainers get 500-1000 baht a night, no so, you only get what you pay for

[Sunny Valentine]

Hi guys, i totally agree with what you are saying, i haven't come to thailand as a person looking or having to work , i'm lucky enough to be classed as retired in my early 40's, but my passion is professional entertaining and singing, i heard a great quote"how to make a small fortune in thailand, come with a big one", i think you misunderstand my original point, i just wanted procedure and price for a company and work permit, As for earnings i would start on a contract at this present time as offered of 150,000 per month, being reviewed at the high and peak season, i don't know anywhere or anyone can make that figure out of there passion and hobby. I'm sure nobody in the know would think entertainers get 500-1000 baht a night, no so, you only get what you pay for

Here is an idea of the follow-up costs to you after you have started the company and received a work permit:

You need an office. Authorities dont accept the back room of your condo, so you might need to rent one.

Monthly rent: 12000

Office running costs: 3000

Minimum Salary for 4 Thai Staff: 24000

Social Security for you and 4 Thai staff: 3900

VAT (based on your contract figure) 12000

Accounting: 4000

Income Tax (based on 50000 salary): 3500

Plus allow about 5000 Monthly to cover the various annual fees, like balance sheet, WP extension, annual social security surcharges, ...

On top of that, you will need a Visa, in the first two Years there is no alternative to a Multiple B Visa, not sure now whether you can obtain that with WP in Asia at all, if so, consider 3000 a month to cover one trip to obrain the Visa, and 3 border runs.

Total monthly costs: about 70000 Baht.

Ok, you can save money here and there, might find a cheaper office, or some other tricks. You might not need to register 4 employees, and a few other tricks. So you might end up with maybe 50000 or so.

Still doable based on a 180000 a month contract, but you should be aware of all that.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Sunny Valentine

[mikebike]

All good info for the OP but I have a question... Work permits are VERY SPECIFIC in where you can work. Forming a company and acquiring a WP doesn't seem to solve the problem of wanting to perform at different venues/bars... or are there different rules for farrang holding WP as entertainers? I can foresee a scenario where the OP is performing and "takes work" from a Thai performer who then informs the authorities - the WP has ONE SPECIFIC ADDRESS ONLY where the WP holder can perform her work - how does this help the OP in working randomly around the island?

[ladykata]

All good info for the OP but I have a question... Work permits are VERY SPECIFIC in where you can work. Forming a company and acquiring a WP doesn't seem to solve the problem of wanting to perform at different venues/bars... or are there different rules for farrang holding WP as entertainers? I can foresee a scenario where the OP is performing and "takes work" from a Thai performer who then informs the authorities - the WP has ONE SPECIFIC ADDRESS ONLY where the WP holder can perform her work - how does this help the OP in working randomly around the island?

I've just had that question answered, if i have a company or a company employ me and i have a work permit, the permit is to that comapny with details of the job discribtion within, to play different venues, the company supplying the work permit issues a contract.

So company X, employs emploee Y via a contract to play venue Z

[ladykata]

Here is an idea of the follow-up costs to you after you have started the company and received a work permit:

You need an office. Authorities dont accept the back room of your condo, so you might need to rent one.

Monthly rent: 12000

Office running costs: 3000

Minimum Salary for 4 Thai Staff: 24000

Social Security for you and 4 Thai staff: 3900

VAT (based on your contract figure) 12000

Accounting: 4000

Income Tax (based on 50000 salary): 3500

Plus allow about 5000 Monthly to cover the various annual fees, like balance sheet, WP extension, annual social security surcharges, ...

On top of that, you will need a Visa, in the first two Years there is no alternative to a Multiple B Visa, not sure now whether you can obtain that with WP in Asia at all, if so, consider 3000 a month to cover one trip to obrain the Visa, and 3 border runs.

Total monthly costs: about 70000 Baht.

Ok, you can save money here and there, might find a cheaper office, or some other tricks. You might not need to register 4 employees, and a few other tricks. So you might end up with maybe 50000 or so.

Still doable based on a 180000 a month contract, but you should be aware of all that.

Hi, thanks for that feed back, this is exactly the advice i'm looking for to avoid these monthly charges

Is there any finacial advantages opening a company in a Thai national name and they supplying my with the desired workpermit

I have evrything in place, ready to go, simply do i do it or do i get my fellow Thai musician to open the company

Remember genuinely i'd be employing Thai musicians

Does a Thai national have to employ 4 fellow Thai nationals and pay there benefits as i would as a farang woman

Hopefully you can see where i'm heading with this, most inexpensive and easiest way to run and have a work permit

[WarpSpeed]

Adamant about it being a big yes yes!! There is more info in this link but I can not find the actual section addressing it yet..But suffice it to say I've found few lawyers since being here that did anything more then just take my money and still had no clue... But begin with this: BOI of Thailand English version

Hmmm ... many privileges for companies that are BOI registered. But come on, how many small companies set up by Farangs for the purpose of obtaining a WP or buying a small property are BOI registered ??

Maybe they should be as they have special exemptions for small businesses under the plans..