Missing Person

[dsfbrit]

I am posting here as I am at a loss as where else to start. My Thai wifes sister has gone missing in Singapore. I wont go into ALL the detail, but I need some good ideas on how I can hold of her passport number.

The Singapore police have been absolutely fantastic. We contacted them via the internet. They have allocated an incident number and even had an officer contact us who will deal with the case. All they have asked for is the Thai passport number as the Thai ID card number is of no use.

Simple task I thought. I have contacted the Thai Embassy / Consular in Singapore and Thailand, Thai Passport office in BanNa and lots of other Thai 'officials'. They simply wont give us the passport number.

So I would appreciate any suggestion that would lead to us being able to get her passport number from the Thai authorities. We are quite prepared to travel anywhere and provide any information to any Thai authorities that you recommend.

We have only contacted the Thai authorities via phone and email - would it be more successful if we went and sat in the office of the Thai passport office and dealt with them face to face - or is it just impossible to get this information??

Thanks very much for your help.

[Musongman]

Sorry to hear about your problem, but if she entered Singapore, their Immigration should have her arrival card and hence the passport number? Best of luck to you all.

[dsfbrit]

The problem is the Singapore immigration system only logs the passport number and name - the name written in English as written on her passport. So her name is Kwan Sooda JakGraPatGayos (I have changed this for security reasons...) however it must be spelt as on her passport.

This can have lots of variations -Its the same with my wife - her name is OOY but on her passport it is written as 'OI'. - and so its vital we have the Thai passport number.

This can be easily accessed by the Thai authorities by inputting her Thai ID card number into their 'search engine'.

They wont do this though as its private information. Fair enough - but I thought if we produced a valid police report or something then this information could be provided. If not to us then directly to the Singapore police.

We also have the problem we dont know what flight she took nor with which airline. The contact phone number she gave has not been answered for 3 weeks.

My wife spoke to her on the phone quite quite a few times before she vanished, but they talked about 'girlie' things - nothing useful like the hotel she was staying!!

She said she was travelling back to Thailand on the 28th of May - then nothing. She has a 6 year old daughter here in Thailand she phones all the time (separated from husband)- that she has not contacted either - so its all very odd!

Its like banging your head against the proverbial brick wall up until now - so any help would be appreciated...

Edited June 15, 2010 by dsfbrit

[george]

Contact Ministry of Foreign Affairs

http://www.mfa.go.th

[dsfbrit]

Thanks George - thats who we have been talking to in Thailand. Very sympathetic, but will not give us the passport number. We contacted the passport Office in BangNa as well - they confirmed they will not give us the passport number. We said we would provide any documentation they required or/and a police report if it would help. They just said they would not provide the number. It was then I got a bit 'wound up' and decided I would start contacting people to see how to get around this - and so its why I am posting here.

There must be someone who has been able to get this information in a similar situation as ours - we cannot be the first ones.

I have also asked the Thai consular in Singapore who did at least reply to our emails - if they can give us the passport details - no reply on that specific question yet.

There must be a procedure somewhere to allow us to get this info!

It is really 'refreshing' to deal with the Singapore police. They are helpful, proactive and efficient in their dealings with us so far - then I have to come back to dealing with the Thai system - groan!

[7by7]

I can understand why the MFA are reluctant to release this information to a third party; but maybe if the Singapore police were to contact the MFA direct themselves the MFA would be willing to give them the information.

Hoping everything turns out ok.

[dsfbrit]

Good thought 7By7. I will try that next if I cannot get the passport number. At this stage though as the Singapore police have been so great and helpful, it does not seem 'polite' to 'push' them to work outside their normal system.

I have asked the MFA if they would provide this number to the Singapore police and they said NO - however that was over the phone - so there may be a way this can be done if we met with an MFA official face-to-face.

edit: I have had an email from the Thai consulate in Singapore and so I have asked them if they would provide the information to the Singapore police. They are at least in the same country and must have dealings on matters like this regularly. Heres hoping.

Edited June 15, 2010 by dsfbrit

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Thanks George - thats who we have been talking to in Thailand. Very sympathetic, but will not give us the passport number. We contacted the passport Office in BangNa as well - they confirmed they will not give us the passport number. We said we would provide any documentation they required or/and a police report if it would help. They just said they would not provide the number. It was then I got a bit 'wound up' and decided I would start contacting people to see how to get around this - and so its why I am posting here.

There must be someone who has been able to get this information in a similar situation as ours - we cannot be the first ones.

I have also asked the Thai consular in Singapore who did at least reply to our emails - if they can give us the passport details - no reply on that specific question yet.

There must be a procedure somewhere to allow us to get this info!

It is really 'refreshing' to deal with the Singapore police. They are helpful, proactive and efficient in their dealings with us so far - then I have to come back to dealing with the Thai system - groan!

Has the Thai Embassy in London (I assume you're still in the UK) been of any assistance?

How about Thai Immigration in Bangkok? The sister would have had to depart Thailand and on departure filled out an Arrival/Departure card, and left the Departure portion with Immigration. These are entered into their computer and the info is available to the Thai Immigration authorities. Which would, of course, have included her passport number.

Mac

[dsfbrit]

Thanks Mac for the feedback. I agree that the information you say would be recorded somewhere. I actually live here in Thailand in Pattaya. I have been here for 7 years now and know the system quite well - how the immigration system works for farangs at any rate.

However, I seem to be hitting a brick wall of bureaucracy when it come to getting information from the Thai authorities about a Thai citizen.

I know its just a case of talking to the right person - but who is that person - finding which person has a PC on their desk that can access a passport number using a Thai identity card number as the 'key' - and willing to do so is my problem.

I only started this task on Thursday last week so its early days yet. I have not yet travelled to the MFA in Bangkok nor the Thai passport office in BangNa - so that is another course of action I will pursue as well as this task 'drags on'.

Maybe if I turn up with the Singapore police report and ask them to contact the Singapore police directly that may work.Sitting at a desk with a picture of the missing person with her 6 year old daughter may get some sympathy action and someone to do something !!!

As you can see I am 'scratching around' at the moment trying to understand the system. If you do hear where (the MFA probably)and more importantly HOW the data you mentioned can be accessed I would be grateful to know.

Once again thanks for the feedback ...

Edit: I have been in contact with the Thai consul in Singapore. They sent me an email offering to help and I have asked them if they can provide the Passport number and/or give it to the me or the Singapore police. No reply yet...

Edited June 16, 2010 by dsfbrit

[Sporting Dog]

Perhaps you could report her as missing to the Thai police and then they can contact Singapore with the required details.

Good luck

[tripplejjj]

My Thai wifes sister has gone missing in Singapore.

So, the sister has gone missing only in Singapore and no where else? Do you know when/where she was missing exactly?

If she is also missing in Thailand, then why don't your wife file a missing report in Thailand also. You and the wife's sister are not related by blood so let your wife (or her parents) file the police report. The Thai authorities are not going to give out sensitive information to a third party (you or wife) because you have no need to know. Eventually, it is up to the authorities (Thai and Singapore) to compare notes and exchange information directly. The Thai Embassy (in Singapore) should have been contacted by the Singapore authorities or the Singapore authorities should have contacted the Thai Embassy already. If the Singapore authorities have not contacted the Thai Embassy for the necessary info, then there is a "gap" somewhere.

[dsfbrit]

Sporting Dog and Tripplejjj thanks for the thoughts. So really you are saying I have attacked this problem from the wrong direction - I agree with you.

When my wife first told me her sister was missing I suggested the same thing. I suggested we went to Banglumung police, make a report, get an 'incident report' number and off we go. Thats what I would do in the UK for sure. My wife looked horrified - I was not too keen on the idea either.

Last year she was attacked and had her motorbike stolen and the Banglamung police were not as 'helpful' as they could have been.

I then went into my 'comfort zone' and logged onto the internet. I 'googled' missing persons in Singapore and found I could contact the Singapore police directly via the internet. The Singapore police were so helpful. They not only replied within 24 hours, they even allocated an individual police officer to the case - Sergeant Chun - incredibly efficient.

I thought this whole task could be relatively painless.!!!

When the Singapore police said they just needed the passport number to start their enquiries, I wrongly thought that getting the passport number would be a relatively simple task and then I could deal with the Singapore police - the very efficient Singapore police - avoiding the Thai authorities as much as possible!!!

I have remained in my 'comfort zone' - not wishing to deal with any 'real people' in Thailand at all. Particularly the Thai police.

Still you are right of course and tomorrow I will drag my wife down to the police station in Banglamung and get her to make a report.

Thanyaburi Mac also provided several good suggestions via a PM - including that we could visit the Amphur as they may be able to tell us some information about where she departed.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Edited June 16, 2010 by dsfbrit

[CharlieB]

Have you not thought about phoning the Thai Embassy in Singapore (website), informing them that you have filed a missing persons report with the local Singapore police, but they need her passport number. They will have liaised with the local police there on matters such as this before. Give them the contact details of the officers in the Singapore police you have been speaking with.

[dsfbrit]

Thanks for the feedback CharlieB.

I have done that already. They have replied by email twice now and I have asked them if they can provide the passport number to either me and/or the Singapore police directly.

No reply to that yet.

The next thing I will do on that 'front' is to ask the Singapore police if they will deal with the Thai consulate in Singapore directly.

I could ask the Singapore police to do this now - but I think its better I make some effort to just provide the passport number they asked for first. I am sure like me, you would think its not very good 'form' for them to ask me on Tuesday to provide this number and then I contact them a day later and say I have done all I can to get this number and can they do this and that etc.... Before I ask the Singapore police to do anything else I need to spend and least until next week trying to get this passport number.

If I am unsuccessful then I will list all the unsuccessful methods I have used, then they can see I am not just lazy and really do need them to do something else...

Obviously if I am successful, then I can remove the Thai authorities from the 'equation' - lets face it - we all know involving the Thai authorities more than necessary is unlikely to speed this process up in the long term.

Even when we spoke to the MFA in Thailand, when my wife told them her sister had not been in contact for 3 weeks - they seemed to think that was not really a long time to be missing - and did not seem too interesetd - hmmm... I disagree.

Edited June 16, 2010 by dsfbrit

[ExpatArchie]

Thanks for the feedback CharlieB.

I have done that already. They have replied by email twice now and I have asked them if they can provide the passport number to either me and/or the Singapore police directly.

No reply to that yet.

The next thing I will do on that 'front' is to ask the Singapore police if they will deal with the Thai consulate in Singapore directly.

I could ask the Singapore police to do this now - but I think its better I make some effort to just provide the passport number they asked for first. I am sure like me, you would think its not very good 'form' for them to ask me on Tuesday to provide this number and then I contact them a day later and say I have done all I can to get this number and can they do this and that etc.... Before I ask the Singapore police to do anything else I need to spend and least until next week trying to get this passport number.

If I am unsuccessful then I will list all the unsuccessful methods I have used, then they can see I am not just lazy and really do need them to do something else...

Obviously if I am successful, then I can remove the Thai authorities from the 'equation' - lets face it - we all know involving the Thai authorities more than necessary is unlikely to speed this process up in the long term.

Even when we spoke to the MFA in Thailand, when my wife told them her sister had not been in contact for 3 weeks - they seemed to think that was not really a long time to be missing - and did not seem too interesetd - hmmm... I disagree.

How do you know she did not return to Thailand?

Previously you explained that you didn't know the spelling of the "english" name in her passport which might assist Singapore police trace her passport number.

This would be the same as on her ID card. If you know her ID number, chances are her sister will, you can find this out from the Provincial registrar

Edited June 16, 2010 by ExpatArchie

[happylarry]

I hate to say this but find out a person who can access the computer and visit them face to face with your wallet in your hand.

Seems to work 99% of the time!!!!! Even better find a Thai solicitor to do it for you.

HL

[ExpatArchie]

I hate to say this but find out a person who can access the computer and visit them face to face with your wallet in your hand.

Seems to work 99% of the time!!!!! Even better find a Thai solicitor to do it for you.

HL

You'd be an idiot to trust a Thai solicitor with your wallet

[dsfbrit]

This would be the same as on her ID card. If you know her ID number, chances are her sister will, you can find this out from the Provincial registrar

Nice idea, if only it were that easy. Her id has her name written in Thai. I can read and write Thai so translating it is no problem - but for example my wife is called อ้อย - this can be written as Oi, or Ooy, or Oy.

This is just a simple example for a short christian name - with a long Thai name like 'Kwan Sooda JakGraPatGayo' there must be about 30 or more permutations.

So the passport has to be seen I am afraid if we want the exact spelling.

As for her returning to Thailand - she was to meet with her 6 year old daughter 2 weeks ago - and she did not turn up. She was going to phone my wife when she arrived as she wanted her to send some CD's to her home - she did not call.

Her Singapore mobile phone number is not being picked up - nor is her Thai phone.

She has not contacted any of her family for 3 weeks now - nor her friends - nor her daughter etc...

Edited June 16, 2010 by dsfbrit

[dsfbrit]

I hate to say this but find out a person who can access the computer and visit them face to face with your wallet in your hand.

Seems to work 99% of the time!!!!! Even better find a Thai solicitor to do it for you.

HL

I have to agree. At this stage I am trying to do it myself. If it becomes too complicated or just a bureaucratic mess then I will choose the 'nuclear' option. Either get my lawyer to look into it - he seems to be well connected or start paying some 'tea' money myself.

[dsfbrit]

I hate to say this but find out a person who can access the computer and visit them face to face with your wallet in your hand.

Seems to work 99% of the time!!!!! Even better find a Thai solicitor to do it for you.

HL

You'd be an idiot to trust a Thai solicitor with your wallet

In general I would agree you need to be very careful when chosing/using a solicitor over here.

We have a family solicitor who has handled quite a few issues for us over the last few years.His company has been Ok until now. On one occasion when they could not do the work they said they could not handle it - fair enough - and then we used Sunbelt Asia to do the work and they were very good.

To be honest I am a long way away from resorting to spending a lot of money on this matter.

I made a decision a few years ago that I would not respond to ANY requests from my wifes family for money - they saw me as the typical wealthy farang ATM machine. So I said I am happy to provide my time, computer, car to drive to Bangkok, etc... but thats about it for now.

To be fair though - as they know I would not do it anyway - no one has asked me to 'shell out' a lot of dosh - so they have been 'trained' not to do that anyway

[knightlordnz]

do you know that the airline may have it and may be she is a overstay and is working cash in hand

[dsfbrit]

You could be right. It could be lots of reasons - the odd thing about is though that she loves making calls on her mobile phone - to her friends, family - and in particular my wife. They talk at least several times a week.

No one has heard from her for 3 +weeks. Even if she were in prison or whatever - she would have been allowed to contact someone.

[dsfbrit]

We went to the police station and the Amphur in Banglamung. We spent quite some time there and the short version of what we were told is:

1. Its nothing to with the police here in Thailand we must contact the Thai consular in Singapore and the Singapore police. In fact the police officer in Banglamung found it hard to even concentrate on the short story my wife told him as I think he had his mind on lunch. Useless!

2. The people in the Amphur were very sympathetic, but basically confirmed there is no way that we will get the passport number from the authorities here in Thailand. They agreed we should deal with the Singapore authorities - although I think they did not really know and they were just agreeing with something I said.

So on that happy note and realising that there is no hope of getting this passport number through 'normal' channels here in Thailand - I will simply THANK EVERYONE for their feedback and close this topic.

If and when we do find the sister, I will post here again and let people know what we had to do - so perhaps the 'pain' of understanding the process of finding a missing Thai person abroad can be reduced.

Thanks again

David

[rvsp]

Have you found out anything since 6/16?

[Goinghomesoon]

Do you know what airline she flew? I would go to their office in Bangkok, complete with all the Singapore Police information and try to get the details from them. If they won't give it to you, you may be able to at least get the name and contact details of a manager that can talk with the Singaporean Police. Luckily if it's Sing Air then the Police could probably liaise with their HQ in Singapore.

Alternatively if you know where she bought her ticket, maybe the agent has passport details.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Goinghomesoon

[dsfbrit]

GoingHomesoon and RSVP, thanks for the interest and thoughts.

Been a bit of a disaster to be honest. I have contacted the Singapore police officer assigned to this case via the internet 3 times since last Friday - no reply.

I have contacted the lady at the Thai Consulate in Singapore via email 3 times - no reply.

I have sent the last email to the Singapore police and copied it to the Thai Consulate in Singapore to see if they may email each other if they dont want to email me !!!

Basically I cannot get the passport number from the Thai authorities - through official channels anyway.

My wife is perhaps a typical Thai - although the family is very close - they are not into the 'nanny state' and she says she asked her sister for the details of her trip and her sister said not to worry it was not necessary - so my wife says she does not wish to make too much effort to find her sister.

I know it seems hard,but there you go!!

I dont get involved in the 'gossip' nor politics of my wifes family - so I have kept out of the ins and outs of all this - offering just to help from a practical point of view.

However I sat down with my wife the other day and asked her to tell me the WHOLE story of her sister. It was very involved, even more so as my wife speaks no English. It involved a child she left behind with her husband she wants to divorce, coming to Pattaya to work in a bar then trying to work as a bar girl, her being not pretty enough to get any clients, meeting some dodgy character on Pattaya beach... going to Singapore etc...

It also appears her sister may have been arrested for working illegally and her sisters 'friend' was this person she met on Pattaya beach who talked her into going to Singapore to do some work.

It also appears she went to Singapore on a bus.

Having heard this long story I remembered why I never get involved in my wifes family situations and went off to watch the football.

I will continue to help as best I can, but my wife thinks she has been arrested and will contact her soon. She seems pretty relaxed about the whole thing.

I told her that if she had been arrested she would have been allowed to make a phone call - the Singapore police aren't animals and her sister has a kid after all!

My wife disagreed - so I dont really know if I can be motivated to help when the rest of the family dont really seem that bothered.

What would you do???

[Sporting Dog]

You did the right thing by going to watch the football.....there's plenty of football coming up so I'd make the effort not to miss any of it. Good luck.

[dsfbrit]

Cheers Sporting Dog...I can see you have your priorities correctly ordered - like me

I will wait until after the World Cup is over then I will 'knock some heads together' and sort this nonsense out.

Until then though - another sleepless night watching footy!!!

[dsfbrit]

Contact Ministry of Foreign Affairs

http://www.mfa.go.th

Well - George was right. Today we went to the MFA in Laksi, Bangkok. It took about 2 hours to get there from Pattaya, being near the old Don Mueng airport.

We were sent to a room on the third floor for 'Thai Nationals Abroad'. The female official there saw us straight away, there was no need for a ticket or any queuing.

After my wife had explained her sisters disapperance and the need for the Passport Number, the official simply said she would arrange for us to have the number. She then took us to another room on the same floor which dealt with passports.

My wife had to prove she is who she says she is and that she was indeed the 'sister'. She did this by prodcuing her Identity card, her sisters identity card details, our house book, and filling in a form and signing it saying that she is her sister. About half an hour later, after some computer searches and a few more questions about the sisters maiden name etc... we were provided with an officical document with the passport details for the sister. Cost 100 baht.

We then went back to see the first official. She saw us immediately. She helped my wife fill out a form requesting that the MFA should help her find her sister. She then copied everything for us. She said she would contact the Thai Consul in Singapore to request their help. We agreed I would send the passport number to the Singapore police as I had been in contact with them already.

She gave us her name and phone details should we need to contact her again.

We had arrived just after 9Am and were out of there by 11.30Am. A fantastic service indeed.

On the way home my wife received a call from the official to ask a couple more questions.

Later in the day my wife received a phone call from the Thai Embassy in Singapore. They wanted to confirm my wife was on this number and said they would be in touch.

I apologise for anything negative I have ever said or thought about Thai government efficiency!!!! Incredible service.

I have emailed the Passport Details to the Singapore police.

I will continue to give feedback on this to help anyone else who may find themselves in a similar situation with a missing person abroad in the future.

[theoldgit]

dsfbrit - really glad you got a good response from the MFA it's good to know that there are officials able, and willing, to help.

Really hope all goes well.

Good luck to you all.