Thailand's Red-Shirts Planning Revenge

[LevelHead]

I live in the heartland of Red country and the depth of feeling is unmistakable.

I live in Chiang Mai - Thaksin territory - and slim is partially.right. The feeling is unmistakable: Most redshirt sympathizers saw the violence and hatred on May 19 and have turned their back on them. Thai people do not want a civil war and they want decent lives. Destroying tourism has not helped anybody or anything and the redshirt leaders have quite effectively pointed out that they are only interested in power and lining their own pockets.

Hopefully, Thais will support the PM in the next election. Like Prime Ministers Chuan and Arnand before him he actually has their best interests in mind. There are not a lot of local politicians who can make this claim.

Sorry to disagree with you UG but i have a complete reversal of feelings that have made me come to the conclusion while it may be said a lot of people who support the Red shirts may be a little pissed of of the recent antics of a few they still remain loyal to the movement (and sadly Thakskin)In actual fact i am surprised at the amount of people in various prominent positions who i would never have dreamed of as being red shirt supporters that have turned out to be. I am not saying this is a good thing or not but just a different observation.

It is very true. More and more are becoming red shirts.

They are fed up of the corruptos who hang on to power through their access to privileged circles and who have since they called for the 2006 coup destroyed the country more and more.

If Abhisit was so strong he would not be scared of elections.

He is just the puppet, the people who pull his strings know full well a country wide general election would see PTP win - and so they do not allow it to happen.

If you get your news from ASTV or TAN or Nation you have to realize its Yellow propaganda in the most.

Red support is growing, and at an even faster rate following the disgusting military action of killing innocent civilians.

[LevelHead]

The "Reds" have won every election for over a decade.

That was before they scared away the tourist dollar and burned down much of the country.

Many tourists were photo'd in with the reds, Posing for photo's,

No pictures with the Thai solidiers who were shooting people, Thai and Foreign.

Who scared way the tourist dollar ? The violent Thai military and their Elite backers who do not care about human life, only their desire to cling on to power for decades more.

About 0.000001% of the country was burned and this was probably in pure frustration of seeing the military shoot innocent civilians. It cannot be condoned but it can be understood.

[rabo]

I live in the heartland of Red country and the depth of feeling is unmistakable.

I live in Chiang Mai - Thaksin territory - and slim is partially.right. The feeling is unmistakable: Most redshirt sympathizers saw the violence and hatred on May 19 and have turned their back on them. Thai people do not want a civil war and they want decent lives. Destroying tourism has not helped anybody or anything and the redshirt leaders have quite effectively pointed out that they are only interested in power and lining their own pockets.

Hopefully, Thais will support the PM in the next election. Like Prime Ministers Chuan and Arnand before him he actually has their best interests in mind. There are not a lot of local politicians who can make this claim.

Sorry to disagree with you UG but i have a complete reversal of feelings that have made me come to the conclusion while it may be said a lot of people who support the Red shirts may be a little pissed of of the recent antics of a few they still remain loyal to the movement (and sadly Thakskin)In actual fact i am surprised at the amount of people in various prominent positions who i would never have dreamed of as being red shirt supporters that have turned out to be. I am not saying this is a good thing or not but just a different observation.

Your observations, while I'm sure are real, are again in complete contrast to mine. Thai's across the board abhor violence and the majority of red leaning people I have talked to have completely turned off to red. I didn't see Abhisit pick up any points either. If I had to pick a most common view, it was, the reds are no longer acceptable, as bad as it is the government must act, just get it over with fast, I'm tired of the whole thing.

I personally cannot see a large voter turnout supporting the red cause. I can see a small but more radical and violent red movement but this will in turn have even less support in the general population, and will probably turn further towards open terrorism. There is big trouble ahead, but not the kind of political division of the country that some westerners seem to imagine. In the end, the Thai's will reject violent means and those that support them.

[way2muchcoffee]

It is very true. More and more are becoming red shirts.

They are fed up of the corruptos who hang on to power through their access to privileged circles and who have since they called for the 2006 coup destroyed the country more and more.

If Abhisit was so strong he would not be scared of elections.

He is just the puppet, the people who pull his strings know full well a country wide general election would see PTP win - and so they do not allow it to happen.

If you get your news from ASTV or TAN or Nation you have to realize its Yellow propaganda in the most.

Red support is growing, and at an even faster rate following the disgusting military action of killing innocent civilians.

How do you come to such conclusions? Where are your statistics? Do you have anything at all to back up your points or are you just mouthing off and disseminating propaganda?

[TAWP]

My word how ignorant of the facts some people are.

The "Reds" have won every election for over a decade.

Please provide facts that back this statement up.

It is very true. More and more are becoming red shirts.

Please provide facts that back this statement up.

Many tourists were photo'd in with the reds, Posing for photo's,

No pictures with the Thai solidiers who were shooting people, Thai and Foreign.

Incorrect, but it hardly means anything unless we should assign 'victory over truth' to whoever was photoed the most? Has nothing to do with anything.

[rabo]

The "Reds" have won every election for over a decade.

That was before they scared away the tourist dollar and burned down much of the country.

Many tourists were photo'd in with the reds, Posing for photo's,

No pictures with the Thai solidiers who were shooting people, Thai and Foreign.

Who scared way the tourist dollar ? The violent Thai military and their Elite backers who do not care about human life, only their desire to cling on to power for decades more.

About 0.000001% of the country was burned and this was probably in pure frustration of seeing the military shoot innocent civilians. It cannot be condoned but it can be understood.

I guess the coup was a much better time. Thaksin's style doesn't seem to sit well with the Thai.

No, the arson and burning of major buildings, some with hundreds of occupants, cannot be understood, no more than ramming commercial jets into high rise buildings. If you feel this is understandable, I sincerely hope that no one with your views plays any role in the future of Thailand, or any other country.

Edited June 20, 2010 by rabo

[kuffki]

The "Reds" have won every election for over a decade.

That was before they scared away the tourist dollar and burned down much of the country.

Many tourists were photo'd in with the reds, Posing for photo's,

No pictures with the Thai solidiers who were shooting people, Thai and Foreign.

Who scared way the tourist dollar ? The violent Thai military and their Elite backers who do not care about human life, only their desire to cling on to power for decades more.

About 0.000001% of the country was burned and this was probably in pure frustration of seeing the military shoot innocent civilians. It cannot be condoned but it can be understood.

surely many people in their right mind want to go up to armed solder and ask for a photo

you right, whats a big deal?? the largest shopping mall in south east asia burned down-perfectly normal and understood.

next time, one of those annoying sellers or tuk tuk drivers or massage idiots on the beach from isaan frustrate me with not understanding "NO" in 3 different languages, i can just bash them or kill them out of frustration and it should be understood.

This is what you call rational way of thinking, so what ever else you post pretty much goes down the drain.

[Nacho]

I live in the heartland of Red country and the depth of feeling is unmistakable.

I live in Chiang Mai - Thaksin territory - and slim is partially.right. The feeling is unmistakable: Most redshirt sympathizers saw the violence and hatred on May 19 and have turned their back on them. Thai people do not want a civil war and they want decent lives. Destroying tourism has not helped anybody or anything and the redshirt leaders have quite effectively pointed out that they are only interested in power and lining their own pockets.

Hopefully, Thais will support the PM in the next election. Like Prime Ministers Chuan and Arnand before him he actually has their best interests in mind. There are not a lot of local politicians who can make this claim.

Sorry to disagree with you UG but i have a complete reversal of feelings that have made me come to the conclusion while it may be said a lot of people who support the Red shirts may be a little pissed of of the recent antics of a few they still remain loyal to the movement (and sadly Thakskin)In actual fact i am surprised at the amount of people in various prominent positions who i would never have dreamed of as being red shirt supporters that have turned out to be. I am not saying this is a good thing or not but just a different observation.

I Have to agree with UG. From the Thais I associate with, of course there are some people who are so red that their minds will probably never change. I have seen some change their stance from giving mild support to the reds before the protests to wanting nothing to do with them. I am yet to know someone to change the other way and I doubt I will.

I spend most of my time between Khon Kaen, Bangkok, and Chiang Mai, So have seen more than 1 group of peoples opionions.

The reds need to get as far away from Taksin as possible if they want to have any legitimacy. In the reds hearts they may be after after a better place in society, but Taksins money is making it all happen so he is in control. So sad, most everyone would truly like to see a better situation for the poor in Thailand, but they just seem to get constantly exploited. This governments road map is the best hope they have at the moment.

[truethailand]

I had some sympathy for the redshirts before the hatred, violence and firestorm that they initiated in Bangkok. However, they have proved that the Prime Minister is right. Many of the leaders are acting like terrorists.

They need to stop the threats and do things legally and peacefully. After Bangkok, the government is justified in whatever measures it takes to stop them from ruining the country. They are cutting their own throats with their recalcitrance.

Follow the money. Stop the flow of the money for payment to these peoples you will have a result to stop these nonsense vioplant protests. I am not against protest, but the result of past two month showed these people are not foe anything except to disrupt the life of bkk people even though no real benefit by their actions.

So keep a permanent emergency act in place till they run of money.

They need to wait for election to show their influence if any left after all acts of violence that came from them

When we talk about stopping payments. Who was funding the yellow shirts for months. Lets expand the debate

[hideki]

With whom are the Red Shirts actually aiming thier "revenge" at? Surely not the already affected Bangkok citizens,I think we and the rest of the country have had enuff of this destructive attitude and its time now from all sides to pull thier heads in and work together for the country and cease this stupidity.I see that Jaturpon is thinking of running in Bangkok bi election and at first I was disgusted at the thought of somone with an arrest warrant pending able to do so, but ,hey maybe he should and be responsible for repairing the damage done by the red mob.

Just a bit of clarification. Red Leader Jatuporn is already an MP with the Pheu Thai Party and currently out on bail (the bail status is being decided next Wednesday due to his misbehavior while free).

Today, the Pheu Thai Party said they would have Nattawut (another Red Leader and currently incarcerated) as their candidate in the July 27 by-election in Bangkok.

This is contingent upon his being allowed out of prison in order to file his MP application as it must be done in person.

More info on the thread:

Eleven Thai Protest Leaders Denied Bail

[rabo]

It is very true. More and more are becoming red shirts.

<snip>

Red support is growing, and at an even faster rate following the disgusting military action of killing innocent civilians.

How do you come to such conclusions? Where are your statistics? Do you have anything at all to back up your points or are you just mouthing off and disseminating propaganda?

He is referring to the recent increase in the number of his own posts I think.

[TAWP]

Before the shooting really started the Army and Govt said they estimated about 500 armed "black shirts" who were the real "terrorists".

Given that the whole area was totally shut down, that over 30,000 troops were in place in a very small area and that the army had had weeks to set up and close everything off, how come none of the 500 have been presented to the public ?? (dead or alive )

<snip>

How did Arisman and others slip through what must have been the tightest cordon ever seen in BKK ??

Somehow I think the answers to both of these are related...

The absence of proof is not a proof of absence.

[rabo]

Before the shooting really started the Army and Govt said they estimated about 500 armed "black shirts" who were the real "terrorists".

Given that the whole area was totally shut down, that over 30,000 troops were in place in a very small area and that the army had had weeks to set up and close everything off, how come none of the 500 have been presented to the public ?? (dead or alive )

How come so few red weapons have been "triumphantly" displayed ?

How did Arisman and others slip through what must have been the tightest cordon ever seen in BKK ??

If it's true that they are now in a neighbouring country, how did that happen ?

The absence of solid evidence, from the army and government, to justify their prior statements and murderous actions raises serious questions.

After 4 weeks, no answers and nothing forthcoming except an enquiry NOT charged with the responsibility to determine the truth.

Clearly the government do not want the truth.

ph

Although a valid question, I find it hard to envision the "tightest cordon ever seen in BKK" when the size of the crowd would vary from about 3000 to 9000 on a daily basis and the leaders were coming and going in their Mercedes.

[philw]

Before the shooting really started the Army and Govt said they estimated about 500 armed "black shirts" who were the real "terrorists".

Given that the whole area was totally shut down, that over 30,000 troops were in place in a very small area and that the army had had weeks to set up and close everything off, how come none of the 500 have been presented to the public ?? (dead or alive )

How come so few red weapons have been "triumphantly" displayed ?

How did Arisman and others slip through what must have been the tightest cordon ever seen in BKK ??

If it's true that they are now in a neighbouring country, how did that happen ?

The absence of solid evidence, from the army and government, to justify their prior statements and murderous actions raises serious questions.

After 4 weeks, no answers and nothing forthcoming except an enquiry NOT charged with the responsibility to determine the truth.

Clearly the government do not want the truth.

ph

Although a valid question, I find it hard to envision the "tightest cordon ever seen in BKK" when the size of the crowd would vary from about 3000 to 9000 on a daily basis and the leaders were coming and going in their Mercedes.

Through a cordon of 30,000 armed soldiers, specifically put there to "contain" the reds ??

That's probably enough to put a line 5 deep around the whole area.

If your statement is true and red leaders passed by in their Mercs, why did the Army not arrest those who had outstanding warrants ??

Doesn't add up does it !

Respectfully ask again, why do you think there aren't any dead "black shirts" on display ??

Could it be there weren't anything like that many or worse, the army failed to kill any ?

ph

[philw]

Before the shooting really started the Army and Govt said they estimated about 500 armed "black shirts" who were the real "terrorists".

Given that the whole area was totally shut down, that over 30,000 troops were in place in a very small area and that the army had had weeks to set up and close everything off, how come none of the 500 have been presented to the public ?? (dead or alive )

<snip>

How did Arisman and others slip through what must have been the tightest cordon ever seen in BKK ??

Somehow I think the answers to both of these are related...

The absence of proof is not a proof of absence.

Sorry, I've had a glass or two and completely fail to understand what you are trying to say.

Is there something cute or clever that I miss in this comment ?

ph

[david555]

With whom are the Red Shirts actually aiming thier "revenge" at? Surely not the already affected Bangkok citizens,I think we and the rest of the country have had enuff of this destructive attitude and its time now from all sides to pull thier heads in and work together for the country and cease this stupidity.I see that Jaturpon is thinking of running in Bangkok bi election and at first I was disgusted at the thought of somone with an arrest warrant pending able to do so, but ,hey maybe he should and be responsible for repairing the damage done by the red mob.

Just a bit of clarification. Red Leader Jatuporn is already an MP with the Pheu Thai Party and currently out on bail (the bail status is being decided next Wednesday due to his misbehavior while free).

Today, the Pheu Thai Party said they would have Nattawut (another Red Leader and currently incarcerated) as their candidate in the July 27 by-election in Bangkok.

This is contingent upon his being allowed out of prison in order to file his MP application as it must be done in person.

More info on the thread:

Eleven Thai Protest Leaders Denied Bail

probably because i showed in Parliament a whole group pictures on big scale by his MP intervenes

[hideki]

What is going on now is the total destruction of the Reds financial backers so that they are neutered

[andyww]

I live in Chiang Mai - Thaksin territory - and slim is partially.right. The feeling is unmistakable: Most redshirt sympathizers saw the violence and hatred on May 19 and have turned their back on them. Thai people do not want a civil war and they want decent lives. Destroying tourism has not helped anybody or anything and the redshirt leaders have quite effectively pointed out that they are only interested in power and lining their own pockets.

Hopefully, Thais will support the PM in the next election. Like Prime Ministers Chuan and Arnand before him he actually has their best interests in mind. There are not a lot of local politicians who can make this claim.

Exactly. Before last months events there were many supporters of the reds all over the country, including in BKK. Many residents welcomed the reds into the city initially, and then the welcome turned to incredulity with the blood-rhrowing incident.

All of that support is now completely and utterly gone. The reds will never again be able to mobilize mass support. The majority of the red crowd never really understood what they were supporting anyway, and only came to their senses in the final disastrous phase when they realized they had been conned by a bunch of thugs.

The red movement is finished, gone for ever.

The only possibility is a tiny number of people who might use terrorist tactics to cause trouble but I think even that is unlikely.

[TAWP]

Before the shooting really started the Army and Govt said they estimated about 500 armed "black shirts" who were the real "terrorists".

Given that the whole area was totally shut down, that over 30,000 troops were in place in a very small area and that the army had had weeks to set up and close everything off, how come none of the 500 have been presented to the public ?? (dead or alive )

<snip>

How did Arisman and others slip through what must have been the tightest cordon ever seen in BKK ??

Somehow I think the answers to both of these are related...

The absence of proof is not a proof of absence.

Sorry, I've had a glass or two and completely fail to understand what you are trying to say.

Is there something cute or clever that I miss in this comment ?

ph

Arisman escaped since there was no 100% net around the area, same reason many black shirts got away. Or changed clothes and got away...or blended in with the other protesters when they were bussed out of there for no cost...

[JetsetBkk]

Before the shooting really started the Army and Govt said they estimated about 500 armed "black shirts" who were the real "terrorists".

Given that the whole area was totally shut down, that over 30,000 troops were in place in a very small area and that the army had had weeks to set up and close everything off, how come none of the 500 have been presented to the public ?? (dead or alive )

<snip>

How did Arisman and others slip through what must have been the tightest cordon ever seen in BKK ??

Somehow I think the answers to both of these are related...

The absence of proof is not a proof of absence.

Sorry, I've had a glass or two and completely fail to understand what you are trying to say.

Is there something cute or clever that I miss in this comment ?

ph

Arisman escaped since there was no 100% net around the area, same reason many black shirts got away. Or changed clothes and got away...or blended in with the other protesters when they were bussed out of there for no cost...

For no cost? Should they have bought a ticket?

[jackr]

Some think they are trying to de-stablize (sp?) the country so that Cambodian forces can move in, take over and HS and TS will have control..

And how will the do that, with donkeys and carts?

[witsawakorn]

If it was to kick off again Thai Gov shouldn't sit around and (or should I say TMP), watch as Bangkok is brought to a standstill, held to ransome. I myself am seriously considering leaving thailand for Vietnam as it's much safer, cleaner, cheaper and much less scamful. I'm sick of living/working under the continued threat of more red-yellow ull-hit. I think many farang companies will seriously look at relocating if it kicked off once more. The losers in all this... The thai's they are fighting over who has the right to take money from farang... When they sort it out there wont be any farang to take from. If there's no farang it will be interesting to see how long this country lasts without emploding on itself. :jap:

There is always somebody who wants to try and turn it into a Thai vs farang story isn't there? Actually Japan is the biggest investor in Thailand and as far as I know Japanese aren't classed as farang. I don't know why you think companies will relocate if trouble kicks off again. If you said that a repeat of the trouble would affect future investment I would agree but relocating a factory which means giving up the BoI tax breaks etc( you talk about thais taking money off farang but forget to mention that the reason why there are so many foreign businesses here is because the farang can make money out of the Thais) then building a replacement facility in another country and retraining a new workforce all under a new bankloan isn't going to happen IMO. Send us a postcard from VN if you've got any money left after they 've fleeced you. Or don't the Vietnamese rip off foreigners?

[jayjay0]

Its why the people of Thailand and by the people of Thailand I mean the real people of Thailand who number in their tens of millions, love him and hate the plutocracy that is the current Government.

Tens of millions?

That would be why the million-man march of his failed to muster more than a measly tenth of that number i guess.

In the Thai General Election of 2005 15m Thais voted for Thaksin representing 61% of the vote.The Democrats won 18%.

Irrespective of how many people demonstrated his popular support is undiminished.

After reading almost every topic here i have a neutral question about it all:

as i only live Thailand 2 years and analyzing all that political "noise"

I ask you all those against Thaksin and those in favor Thaksin ,

if Thailand is better now than under his government.

As i read on other topics that Thailand is not so good anymore as before....,I can not judge about that as i am only now here 2 year so... , i can only remark that he was elected , stepped down voluntary because a "problem " that the opposition accused him for, . By new elections he won again , half the Thais really seems to like him ,

AND a coup from military ousted him.

So.... my analysis about him , is he good or bad..? In any way whatever he is Evil or Good he is good in what he does ... ..., It seems he run Thailand as his businesses , and those where successfully ( yeah i hear already .....corruption....., but is the Government in power any different .?? )

He shall stay a major factor in Thailand if they like it or not .....and whiteout REAL reconciliation an d recognition of the lower class it will end very bad...

Not my problem as i know i am only 3 hours away from Cambodia if hel_l breaks REALLY lose here^_^

Thaksin did help the poor but not very much. The much vaunted health insurance is a start. I don't know much about it but the Thai people I have talked to about it had nothing good to say for it. It apparently has very little helping value. As I said it was a start and as long as people refer to it as a great thing it will never improve.

He is definetly evil now look at the lives lost and destruction in Bangkok he fostered. And that dosent even start to take in to account the hard ship and misory they caused the innocent emploies and resedents of the area they took over in Bangkok. So I say only a evil man would support people like that.

As for coruption yes this government is different. They are still rideled with it but not quite as in your face with it as Thaksin was. Thaksin just took with out in pretext of covering up.

As for him being a major factor in Thailand yes and no. If They succesfully stop his money flow to the red shirts he will become a unpleasant memory.

I can hardly wait to get home to my desk top computer with the working spell check

[jcbangkok]

BANGKOK: -- Anti-government red shirts seeking revenge are expected to instigate fresh turmoil in Bangkok and the provinces after the government lifts the emergency decree, security agency sources said yesterday.

These folks have no problem breaking laws, causing violence and terrorizing people but for some reason are scared to break the rules of the emergency decree?

[david555]

Some think they are trying to de-stablize (sp?) the country so that Cambodian forces can move in, take over and HS and TS will have control..

And how will the do that, with donkeys and carts?

How did the VietCong travelled...????:jap: ,

but nobody believe that wat you (joking way ) said;)

Edited June 20, 2010 by david555

[kuffki]

Some think they are trying to de-stablize (sp?) the country so that Cambodian forces can move in, take over and HS and TS will have control..

And how will the do that, with donkeys and carts?

Do not underestimate Cambodian Military, they have been at war for long enough and have been well equipped by both USA and Russia.

Not to mention, their lives are so bad that people really do not have much to loose and this is what makes it a scary army

[cdnvic]

We're beginning to go off on fanciful tangents here. Please stay on topic.

[cdnvic]

For the 500th time, don't modify other people's quotes. Next time its a suspension.

[ozzieman05]

Just REMEMBER this whole situation is far from over..it will continue UNTIL there is an ELECTION!

Once there is an ELECTION then you YELLOW SHIRT Sympathizers will have to be on the side of the REAL TERRORISTS! As the YELLOW SHIRTS will make their move.

So you ask where is the end of this conflict? I think if you study what is really going on here you will find the answer!

Let there be no mistake my shirt is RED!

Get over it! The election already happened and the reds lost. Period. And lost big time in the most recent elections. It does not look good for them in the future...especially if their war chest is locked up and they can't bribe the locals!!!!

Sure, they will still have pockets of supporters in Issan, but the majority of Thailand will not vote their way...

My word how ignorant of the facts some people are.

The "Reds" have won every election for over a decade.

The Democrats have lost every election for over a decade.

Sadly democracy cannot overcome the power of the military and the old corrupt Bangkok elite who have stolen power from the reds by a coup (military and judicial).

What is going on now is the total destruction of the Reds financial backers so that they are neutered ahead of an election.

Obama needed 600M US$ to get elected, if Obama supporters in the US had all their finances frozen he would never have won the election.

The Thai Junta know what they are doing, however their action is becoming more overt now and the more overt it is the more and more people will be able to see clearly how corrupt they all are and that its nothing to do with Thaksin, its a grab for power by the old corruptos to reduce democracy to zero within Thailand, so the Thai Junta can rule for ever more............

Interesting first they say the red shits have the majority of Thailand on there side

now they say they need money to get them to vote for them

seems you can not decide which

[Samuian]

If the people/organisations that are openly making the threats of further violent action are actually known or identifiable to authourities, why dont the authourities just arrest them now before it gets out of hand again - or would that just be too simple??

Well, then they will come up with the "proof" that this is a

"military dictator ship" it's not a red shirt movement, it's not

a genuine political movement, if it's true that 11 billion

have been "invested" into this uprising.... well there is a strong

"force" behind this and a determination to win - it is all about power

and who will rule this country "tomorrow", one party "democracy"

and a resulting Autocracy is in the books.... what is going to happen then?

If this is not contained, which might prove rather difficult, Thailand

is up for some serious trouble over the years to come!

Someone who won't give up and stop at nothing, unless he's got it his way!

just watch the undoing of a once united and homogeneous society for the sake of

a single individuals hurt ego.