"As Soon As You Opened Your Mouth They Probably Knew Where You Learnt Your Thai From"

[DavidHouston]

Friends,

Whether you agree or disagree with a particular poster, there is no reason for any respondent to be disagreeable. Please let's keep the language forum the leader in civility within ThaiVisa.

As for the technical subject, I have two questions, and I apologize in advance for my ignorance:

1. How is "Hi So" in Thailand defined based on your experience? We live in a rural area of Thailand and thus have very little contact with Bangkok society. How does one know if a Thai is a member of the Hi So group? Is Hi So in Thailand similar to the upper crust in the U.K. or in the U.S.? Or, do you have to be one to know one? Is it even possible to for foreigner in Thailand to be a member of Hi So without marrying into it? In effect, if one is wealthy enough, can one "buy" one's way into Hi So?

2. How does one recognize a "trilled" "ร" I can make an "ล" sound by touching the tip of my tongue to the area behind my teeth; and, I can make a "ร" sound by touching a broader area of my tongue to the area of the palate further behind my teeth. Furthermore, my understanding and observation of Thai is that the "ร" is only one sound, not a series, as the word "trill" might imply. Please help me understand whether this is a correct understanding of the utterance of these Thai consonants.

Note, that this is not the "r" sound of my American English (if that is not an oxymoron to much of the English speaking world). My American "r" is mostly a vowel sound.

Thanks for all your help. Civilly yours, . . . .

[mikenyork]

David: Wrote a reply which seems to have disappeared. The substance was that I was taught in language school to roll ร like a Spanish (single) 'r'. I wasn't taught , unfortunately, that ร would in fact be pronounced as an l or a combination of r and l. In the beginning I rolled my ร as I had been taught. Thais found it mildly amusing. The more serious issue was that for me r and l were separate letters and therefore 'buri' was no more the same as 'buli' than lock and rock are the same word. Took me quite a while to get my head around ignoring whether the speaker had said r or l.

I have always been told that southern Thais were the ones to roll their r's. The other group of Thai speakers famous for doing this are the Cambodians (I don't think the r and l confusion carries over to Cambodian--in any event they roll their r's when they speak Thai to a faretheewell.

Can't help you with high so (zone).

I second your thought about civility. Seems especially important for folks who care about language.

[tombkk]

The dead givaway is the use of L in words rather than the rolling R

Yet another thai language pundit weighs in on all thingz thai. With as many 'experts' on the thai language as this forum has I wonder why I don't hear more foreigners actually speaking clear, coherent thai instead of '2-word-tourist-thai', 'horse-peak', or that hideous mix of 'baby-talk-engrish-thai' which seems so prevalent.

The only time I hear distinct r-rolling in normal thai speech is;

*overly pretentious newscasters

*wanna-b-hi-so thai kids acting better than they are

*goof-ball foreigners who think they speak thai better than they really do.

Even at Immigrations, the police stations, MFA, etc; when dealing with the officials there, the slight blurring of r's and l's is more than evident.

One the street this type of pretentious over pronunciation and/or rolling your r's will get the thais you interact with to roll their eyes and think you're too full of yourself for your own good. Especially if the rest of your thai is marginally pronounced.

I totally concur with the poster known as "mikenyork" in his observations about rolling your r's.

I agree, but I think it really depends on the situtation and environment you're in. If i talk with my teacher I รรรร and ผม and ครับ but with thai friends, people my own age etc that stuff is usually omitted.

However I don't agree with thai's 'rolling their eyes' (that is unless you're cleary a fluent/near native speaker) the benefit of the doubt is usually always given

btw, I am no expert, I would probably class myself as intermediate depending on what is being spoken about

I do agree that the vocabulary you use depends on the context. When I learned Chinese (Mandarin), I was surprised that there was only one word for "I" and only two words for "you" - how impolite some sentences may sound in context! But then I remembered my English...

No, I haven't seen any Thai rolling their eyes if a foreigner uses the wrong vocabulary. However, they will still knpow where you learned your Thai (referring back to the title of this thread) and treat you differently accordingly.

[tombkk]

So, tod-daniels, do you know Southerners? All the Southerners I know pronounce their r's rather clearly and do tend to roll them. But perhaps they are just being pretentious wannabe hi so islanders.

Truth be told I was taking a jab at the newest thai language pundit known as "phomsanuk" and the post they made about thais blurring r's and l's in colloquial speech.

While off topic, to answer your question; Nope, dunno a single southern thai. In fact; not being able to swim, anything even remotely 'beachy' or 'islandy' here is of less than zero value to me. I never spent any time down there, nor have the hankering to do so. With that being said, I'll just hafta take your word that southern thais distinctly roll their r's when the speak. It does carry anecdotal value, especially seeing as I don't live in and amongst them.

Regional accents of these people (thais) speaking the only government approved version of thai aka; 'central thai' or 'bangkokian thai' are not uncommon in fact they are all too common, just like regional accents of americans in the US, or brits in the UK.

Nearly every thai I know can; after hearing another thai speak central thai, guess with a pretty high degree of accuracy as to where that particular person came from before making the 'trek to the big smoke' to work in bangkok.

I was relating my personal observations and experiences ONLY. That they are dissimilar from yours negates neither of our observations. They're just different.

Perhaps I paint with too broad a brush, but in my world, things are either black or white; and using a broad brush I can cover a lot of ground quickly.

I stand humbly erected errr , I mean 'corrected' in my over generalization of the thais who engage in noticeable r rolling, which I think might also be called 'trilling'.

Central Thai is what I believe to be the official language. This is what we learn at school and what the news anchor on TV speaks.

Bangkok Thai is a different story. It's like saying the Queen's English is the same as London English. It isn't. In fact, I sometimes do have problems understanding fast-speaking Bangkokians, as they slur words and vowels.

This post doesn't refer to "R" and "L". A vehicle is pronounced "lot" even though spelled "rot". That's a completely different ballpark.

[tombkk]

Friends,

Whether you agree or disagree with a particular poster, there is no reason for any respondent to be disagreeable. Please let's keep the language forum the leader in civility within ThaiVisa.

As for the technical subject, I have two questions, and I apologize in advance for my ignorance:

1. How is "Hi So" in Thailand defined based on your experience? We live in a rural area of Thailand and thus have very little contact with Bangkok society. How does one know if a Thai is a member of the Hi So group? Is Hi So in Thailand similar to the upper crust in the U.K. or in the U.S.? Or, do you have to be one to know one? Is it even possible to for foreigner in Thailand to be a member of Hi So without marrying into it? In effect, if one is wealthy enough, can one "buy" one's way into Hi So?

[...]

Thanks for all your help. Civilly yours, . . . .

Easy: Hi-so ladies have big hair... a.k.a. "big hair ladies". ;-)

[sbk]

Ask any Thai person, tod. It is a well known fact that Southerners pronounce their r's. it is, in fact, ror reua and not lor leua so it is a matter of much pride to Southerners that they are the only ones to get this correctly.

[hiero]

thai hi-so:

nice cars, a house with a name, pet dogs, kids with cars, drink coffee in starbucks, paler skin, fashionable clothes, holidays abroad, not eating in roadside cafes, not riding on the back of motorcycle taxi's, i-phones, i-pods, blackberrys, beauty treatments, "you are farang, big money, why shop at MBK", trips to the 'clinic', can or want to be good at english language, jewellery, being seen at paragon or central, buying whiskey inside nightclubs rather than bringing their own, narak photos, 5,000 friends of hi-5, "i like salad no somtam", not mixing with others outside the hi-so, "i will buy that dress..." whilst watching ละคร

bitter? nah, just went out with a hi-so girl.

Edited June 23, 2010 by hiero

[tombkk]

Ask any Thai person, tod. It is a well known fact that Southerners pronounce their r's. it is, in fact, ror reua and not lor leua so it is a matter of much pride to Southerners that they are the only ones to get this correctly.

Go to Buri Ram and hear people pronouncing lor-ling as ror-ruea. Maybe they tried to be overly correct when they met a farang speaking Thai (me), so I don't know whether that's the rule.

[mangkorn]

Central Thai is what I believe to be the official language. This is what we learn at school and what the news anchor on TV speaks.

Bangkok Thai is a different story. It's like saying the Queen's English is the same as London English. It isn't. In fact, I sometimes do have problems understanding fast-speaking Bangkokians, as they slur words and vowels.

Excellent point, and a very important distinction. I spend time with a group of old Bangkok businessmen a couple times a month, and they are the most difficult Thais to understand. They mumble and slur like they have marbles in their mouths, as well as peppering their speech with urban slang. On the other hand, I find that many provincials from other regions speak very clear Central Thai, some even beautifully articulate; I wonder if that is perhaps because it is a second language to them, and they are more careful with it?

[Groongthep]

Dop salop sa lai, translates to 'knocked out' and is used by any Thai that is pi_sed off enough to want to knock someone out. It is NOT solely used by bar girls.

Teerak.....anyone may use that, and MOST Thais do.

I agree with gotglue above. "Dtop salop sa lai" is frequently used by bargirls but also can and is used by just about any Thai of any socio-economic class whether they be truly angry or as is more often the case simply joking with a friend that they are going to slap them silly.

"Teerak" can and is used by most Thais of all backgrounds when addressing someone they are in love with. It is only seen as a low class type of word if it is used when addressing someone they don't know well.

Trilled r's are still sometimes used by news announcers and television program hosts although it is less common now than in the past. I don't think I have ever heard them trilled in everyday speech, but that doesn't mean that there might not be a particular group of people who do and I am just not aware of them.

Some words and phrases that make the hair stand up on the back of my neck when I hear (mostly male) farangs use them are:

1.) Emphasizing a statement spoken in baby talk english by tagging MAAG MAAG to the end of it.

2.) Using the words BOOM BOOM to refer to sex.

3.) Using the word "saep" instead of "arawy" when refering to tasty food.

4.) Using "sabai dee bo" instead of "khun sabai dee mai" for the english equivalent of "How are you doing?" or "Have you been well?"

I'm sure there's a lot more, but these are the ones that come immediately to mind.

[hiero]

Groongtep - a little off topic, but what is a casual way of saying sex without saying 'boom boom' or being crude, like if you were describing a film to some friends and wanted to say.. "...then they had sex..."

As i've always thought การ ร่วมเพ็ศ was the equivalent of "sexual intercourse" and a little formal?

[mikenyork]

นอนกัน to sleep together--probably ok in informal settings--not vulgar, but definitely not "official language"

เอากัน much less polite but at least real Thai, which boom boom is not (a derivative of a German vulgarism as I understand it)

[hiero]

thanks^ i've used the later before but I daren't say where i learnt it from

I always thought boom-boom came from kubrick putting it in full metal jacket and it just becoming popular after that

[sarahsbloke]

Groongtep - a little off topic, but what is a casual way of saying sex without saying 'boom boom' or being crude, like if you were describing a film to some friends and wanted to say.. "...then they had sex..."

As i've always thought การ ร่วมเพ็ศ was the equivalent of "sexual intercourse" and a little formal?

And of course the correct answer is

You don't talk about sex or acknowledge it even exists with anyone, only bar girls and guys that hang with them do that (and maybe other lowlife).

Edited June 24, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[mikenyork]

Well, Sarahsbloke, it seems we're destined to disagree about pretty much everything. While it's true that Thais don't discuss sex with the casual openness that has become the standard in the West, it is equally true that at the general level of acknowledging the level of intimacy between couples, it is a common subject of conversation. Typical conversation: เขาได้กันหรืหยั่ง reply เขาได้กันถึงนานแล้ว! And there is an entire genre of Thai humor (the name of which slips my mind) that involves men and women trading double entendres largely focused on sex. Like almost everything in this country, generalizations in both extremes of any given quality are equally true at the same time even though they are mutually exclusive. (Example: Thais are the most gracious and the most rude people in the world. Which? Yes.)

[DavidHouston]

Does everyone agree with Hiero's characterization that "Hi-So" means ostentatious consumption of wealth? Are there social class implications as well or is spending the primary criterion?

thai hi-so:

nice cars, a house with a name, pet dogs, kids with cars, drink coffee in starbucks, paler skin, fashionable clothes, holidays abroad, not eating in roadside cafes, not riding on the back of motorcycle taxi's, i-phones, i-pods, blackberrys, beauty treatments, "you are farang, big money, why shop at MBK", trips to the 'clinic', can or want to be good at english language, jewellery, being seen at paragon or central, buying whiskey inside nightclubs rather than bringing their own, narak photos, 5,000 friends of hi-5, "i like salad no somtam", not mixing with others outside the hi-so, "i will buy that dress..." whilst watching ละคร

bitter? nah, just went out with a hi-so girl.

[mikenyork]

David: The way I've heard the word used, it has always been associated with consumption and lifestyle. I thought the earlier post from the guy who had had a hi-so girlfriend was pretty much exactly spot on. I don't think it implies class insofar as class in modern Bkk society can be distinguished in people's minds from money per se. But I think for most Bkk Thais, with the exception of genuinel old money/royalty, the two have become hopelessly intermixed.

[HappyInCM]

David: The way I've heard the word used, it has always been associated with consumption and lifestyle. I thought the earlier post from the guy who had had a hi-so girlfriend was pretty much exactly spot on. I don't think it implies class insofar as class in modern Bkk society can be distinguished in people's minds from money per se. But I think for most Bkk Thais, with the exception of genuinel old money/royalty, the two have become hopelessly intermixed.

Then presumably there's a word akin to nouveau riche (which I couldn't help thinking when I read the previous description). I see there's a word: เศรษฐีใหม่ but I wonder if it has the same negative connotations as the English word - maybe only if you travel in the "right" circles I found the word here: nouveau riche : พจนานุà¸à¸£à¸¡ Longdo (Longdo Dictionary)

[mikenyork]

Sorry to say, เศรษฐีใหม่ means "new business" not new money or newly rich. Only when I started trying to use Thai-English dictionaries did I begin to appreciate English language lexicography. Using Thai English dictionaries should carry a consumer warning to proceed at your own risk.

[Tod Daniels]

And of course the correct answer is

You don't talk about sex or acknowledge it even exists with anyone, only bar girls and guys that hang with them do that (and maybe other lowlife).

Again 'sarahsbloke' the self appointed resident expert weighs in with his 2 satang worth of misguided information...

While I routinely use sweeping generalities and paint with a very broad brush (to cover ground quickly); I too must agree to disagree with that poster's skewed take on "all thingz thai" concerning talk of a sexual nature amongst close friends.

Slightly Off Topic but of marginal value none the less:

Once you get to know a particular group of thai guys (whatever their position on the socio-economic ladder of success and/or demographic), and they accept you ‘into the fold' so to speak; the conversation can and does ALMOST always touch upon sex at some point.

The guys I’ve sat with nearly every nite for the last 3 years are ALL what I would term "middle class working stiffs". They're married, educated, in their late 30's to mid 40's; have great jobs with international companies, and their salaries are comparable to what you'd get in the west for similar work. They have free family health insurance, paid sick, vacation and holiday leave, bonus and incentive programs, life insurance, etc. They own their own homes, cars, moto-cys etc. Again, any way you figure it they're about as far from a low-life person as I could imagine. In fact they've got better jobs than many foreigners I know who live here.

Once I got to know them, these guys are some of the most down to earth people I've ever come to know ANYWHERE I’ve lived. Yet time and again when we sit outside and drink at nite, the talk invariably touches on sex, sexual jokes, double entendres with sexual connotations, speculation about this or that couples sexual penchants, frequency of intercourse, efficacy of viagra, penis size, a particular person's sexual history, etc.

Some of the most hysterical conversations (to the point that we all had tears running down our faces in laughter and could barely catch our breath) have come up when I sit out side my apartment on the Soi and interact with those guys.

Remember; this is in an ultra-casual social setting, NOT at the office, at the restaurant, in a food court, etc, but sitting outside drinking whilst they wait for traffic to abate so they can make their way home after work. I think familiarity of the group you’re with AND the social setting you’re in play a very important role in what is acceptable to discuss and what is not; much more so than broad brush labeling that any talk of a sexual nature makes a person a 'low life'. ..

I've found if you spend time trying to make friends with thai guys, in your neighborhood, or ones you see every day, etc, your 'bang for the baht' and enjoyment of 'all thingz thai' can does go up immeasurably.

Once they know you, thai guys are definitely a hoot to sit with and IMHO they are far more interesting than sitting with thai gurls.

[Groongthep]

And of course the correct answer is

You don't talk about sex or acknowledge it even exists with anyone, only bar girls and guys that hang with them do that (and maybe other lowlife).

Again 'sarahsbloke' the self appointed resident expert weighs in with his 2 satang worth of misguided information...

While I routinely use sweeping generalities and paint with a very broad brush (to cover ground quickly); I too must agree to disagree with that poster's skewed take on "all thingz thai" concerning talk of a sexual nature amongst close friends.

Slightly Off Topic but of marginal value none the less:

Once you get to know a particular group of thai guys (whatever their position on the socio-economic ladder of success and/or demographic), and they accept you ‘into the fold' so to speak; the conversation can and does ALMOST always touch upon sex at some point.

The guys I’ve sat with nearly every nite for the last 3 years are ALL what I would term "middle class working stiffs". They're married, educated, in their late 30's to mid 40's; have great jobs with international companies, and their salaries are comparable to what you'd get in the west for similar work. They have free family health insurance, paid sick, vacation and holiday leave, bonus and incentive programs, life insurance, etc. They own their own homes, cars, moto-cys etc. Again, any way you figure it they're about as far from a low-life person as I could imagine. In fact they've got better jobs than many foreigners I know who live here.

Once I got to know them, these guys are some of the most down to earth people I've ever come to know ANYWHERE I’ve lived. Yet time and again when we sit outside and drink at nite, the talk invariably touches on sex, sexual jokes, double entendres with sexual connotations, speculation about this or that couples sexual penchants, frequency of intercourse, efficacy of viagra, penis size, a particular person's sexual history, etc.

Some of the most hysterical conversations (to the point that we all had tears running down our faces in laughter and could barely catch our breath) have come up when I sit out side my apartment on the Soi and interact with those guys.

Remember; this is in an ultra-casual social setting, NOT at the office, at the restaurant, in a food court, etc, but sitting outside drinking whilst they wait for traffic to abate so they can make their way home after work. I think familiarity of the group you’re with AND the social setting you’re in play a very important role in what is acceptable to discuss and what is not; much more so than broad brush labeling that any talk of a sexual nature makes a person a 'low life'. ..

I've found if you spend time trying to make friends with thai guys, in your neighborhood, or ones you see every day, etc, your 'bang for the baht' and enjoyment of 'all thingz thai' can does go up immeasurably.

Once they know you, thai guys are definitely a hoot to sit with and IMHO they are far more interesting than sitting with thai gurls.

Good post. My experience with middle class Thais is similar.

[HappyInCM]

Sorry to say, เศรษฐีใหม่ means "new business" not new money or newly rich. Only when I started trying to use Thai-English dictionaries did I begin to appreciate English language lexicography. Using Thai English dictionaries should carry a consumer warning to proceed at your own risk.

Well, this is lexitron and their definition in Thai is: ผู้ที่เพิ่งร่ำรวยขึ้นมา, คนมั่งมีที่ไม่ได้สืบเชื้อสายมากจากตระกูลเก่าแก่

so, what word is appropriate then?

[DavidHouston]

Here are some definitions from two Thai women writing is amagazine, "Yess-We Do", YES! Magazine:

___________________________________

นัท มีเรีย – ความหมายของคำว่าไฮโซ

Nat Miiria – The meaning of the word "Hi-so"

คำว่า "ไฮโซ" ในความรู้สึกของนัทนะคะ ก็คือบุคคลที่มีฐานะ มีความรู้และเป็นคนที่มีน้ำใจช่วยเหลือคนที่เค้าด้อยโอกาส มีความคิดที่ดี แล้วก็มีปัจจัยที่ดีหลาย ๆ ด้านค่ะ

My feeling is that the word "hi-so" means a person who has [high] status; is educated; is charitable to those less fortunate; who thinksproper thoughts; and, who has many admirable qualities.

เข็ม กฤตธีรา พิธีกรรายการ ตี10 – ความหมายของคำว่าไฮโซ

Khem Kritthira, the mistress of ceremonies of the "Ten PMProgram" – The Meaning of the word "Hi-so."

ความจริงความหมายของคำว่า "ไฮโซ"ตามเป็นจริงแล้วก็คือคนที่มาจากคนชั้นสูง หรือคนที่เกิดในตระกูลขุนนางในสมัยก่อนแต่ความหมายของเข็มตอนนี้ เข็มมีรู้สึกว่าเป็นคนกลุ่มเดียวกันที่แบบมีอะไรคล้าย ๆกัน มารวมตัวกันค่ะ

In reality, the meaning of the word "hi-so" is applied to a person who comes from the upper class or in former times a perso nwho was born into a noble family. But in current parlance to me it means a person of who is a member of a cohesive group which shares common traits.

________________________________________

Gee, nothing about conspicuous consumption.

Edited June 24, 2010 by DavidHouston

[thomo]

"hi-so" means a person who has [high] status; is educated; is charitable to those less fortunate;

[sarahsbloke]

[Again 'sarahsbloke' the self appointed resident expert weighs in with his 2 satang worth of misguided information...

While I routinely use sweeping generalities and paint with a very broad brush (to cover ground quickly); I too must agree to disagree with that poster's skewed take on "all thingz thai" concerning talk of a sexual nature amongst close friends.

Nobody specified sexual talk betrween close same-sex friends .... that would be a different matter entirely.

I can't really make much comment about conversations with Thai guys, as I'm not gay, I don't mix with em much.

The farmers I do mix with (family events) tend to get totally pissed and fall asleep very quickly without much conversation, oh how i wish I were a gay Bangkokian!

Edited June 24, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[sarahsbloke]

Here are some definitions from two Thai women writing is amagazine, "Yess-We Do", YES! Magazine:

...........

Gee, nothing about conspicuous consumption.

Nothing about skin colour either, and I can assure you those with dark skin will never be considered 'hi-so' by anyone.

[mikenyork]

Here are some definitions from two Thai women writing is amagazine, "Yess-We Do", YES! Magazine:

___________________________________

นัท มีเรีย – ความหมายของคำว่าไฮโซ

Nat Miiria – The meaning of the word "Hi-so"

คำว่า "ไฮโซ" ในความรู้สึกของนัทนะคะ ก็คือบุคคลที่มีฐานะ มีความรู้และเป็นคนที่มีน้ำใจช่วยเหลือคนที่เค้าด้อยโอกาส มีความคิดที่ดี แล้วก็มีปัจจัยที่ดีหลาย ๆ ด้านค่ะ

My feeling is that the word "hi-so" means a person who has [high] status; is educated; is charitable to those less fortunate; who thinksproper thoughts; and, who has many admirable qualities.

เข็ม กฤตธีรา พิธีกรรายการ ตี10 – ความหมายของคำว่าไฮโซ

Khem Kritthira, the mistress of ceremonies of the "Ten PMProgram" – The Meaning of the word "Hi-so."

ความจริงความหมายของคำว่า "ไฮโซ"ตามเป็นจริงแล้วก็คือคนที่มาจากคนชั้นสูง หรือคนที่เกิดในตระกูลขุนนางในสมัยก่อนแต่ความหมายของเข็มตอนนี้ เข็มมีรู้สึกว่าเป็นคนกลุ่มเดียวกันที่แบบมีอะไรคล้าย ๆกัน มารวมตัวกันค่ะ

In reality, the meaning of the word "hi-so" is applied to a person who comes from the upper class or in former times a perso nwho was born into a noble family. But in current parlance to me it means a person of who is a member of a cohesive group which shares common traits.

________________________________________

Gee, nothing about conspicuous consumption.

All I can say about this quote is that it is not the way I have heard the word used. I admit that the people I have heard use the word are far more middle class than the woman quoted in the article and certainly not themselves high so. But there is always an undercurrent of criticism when I hear the word. Very often it is used as a barb as in "Oh! You don't eat street food! Aren't we hi so these days!" People who are clearly (as the person quoted in Yes! is) hi so themselves evidently have a very different view of the word. It might be the difference in feeling between a person from Texas who says, of another person, "He's a TEXAN" and a person from West Hollywood who says , of the same person, "He's a Texan". They've said the same word. But they certainly don't mean the same thing.

[gotglue]

Here are some definitions from two Thai women writing is amagazine, "Yess-We Do", YES! Magazine:

...........

Gee, nothing about conspicuous consumption.

Nothing about skin colour either, and I can assure you those with dark skin will never be considered 'hi-so' by anyone.

I've come to the conclusion that, sarahsbloke is just on a wind up. Trolling I think it's called.

Edited June 24, 2010 by gotglue

[tombkk]

Groongtep - a little off topic, but what is a casual way of saying sex without saying 'boom boom' or being crude, like if you were describing a film to some friends and wanted to say.. "...then they had sex..."

As i've always thought การ ร่วมเพ็ศ was the equivalent of "sexual intercourse" and a little formal?

And of course the correct answer is

You don't talk about sex or acknowledge it even exists with anyone, only bar girls and guys that hang with them do that (and maybe other lowlife).

LOL! Of course that's correct. Especially if you're a lady and speaking in public.

For us guys, it's quite common, with or without beer, to have a social conversation among friends that includes sexuality. The most polite I've heard is มีอะไรกัน followed by นอนด้วยกัน (apologies if my speeling is bad).

The guys I mix with are same as me, middle-class, middle-aged managers or small business owners. Urbanites with a tertiary education, people who run around with necktie during the day, drive their own cars, and wear jeans and sneakers in the evening rather than shorts and flip-flops. Maybe that's not quite the class of people you mix with.

[tombkk]

Here are some definitions from two Thai women writing is amagazine, "Yess-We Do", YES! Magazine:

[...]

จริงความหมายของคำว่า "ไฮโซ"ตามเป็นจริงแล้วก็คือคนที่มาจากคนชั้นสูง หรือคนที่เกิดในตระกูลขุนนางในสมัยก่อนแต่ความหมายของเข็มตอนนี้ เข็มมีรู้สึกว่าเป็นคนกลุ่มเดียวกันที่แบบมีอะไรคล้าย ๆกัน มารวมตัวกันค่ะ

In reality, the meaning of the word "hi-so" is applied to a person who comes from the upper class or in former times a perso nwho was born into a noble family. But in current parlance to me it means a person of who is a member of a cohesive group which shares common traits.

________________________________________

Gee, nothing about conspicuous consumption.

In reality; the word comes from Louis Armstrong:

Hi

Hi so

High socie

High society!

Took me a while to understand what the Thais meant by "hi so" when I first arrived. Once I got it, I found the name of the rock band "Loso" quite funny.