Installing Ceiling Fan

[ubonrthai]

I am not handyman inclined, but am attempting to learn and install a ceiling fan on my own. Is the drywall and metal it's screwed into (see picture) strong enough to hold a ceiling fan? Once I figure out this part, the rest should be a breeze.

Also, the wiring on the ceiling fan has blue and white wires. I'm assuming white to white, and blue to red (see picture) correct?

[Forkinhades]

No

You need to insert some plywood behind the plasterboard

The two cables are obviously 'live' and neutral, fans are not polarity dependent, so it really does not matter how you connect.

[Spoonman]

Ive just installed one in my home office, I mounted the fan bracket onto a piece of 4x2 that was 4ft long, I got up into the roof crawl space and placed the wood over the hole where the fan was to mount.

[Thaifan2]

>>, I got up into the roof crawl space and placed the wood over the hole where the fan was to mount. <<

My my ! you arnt half dexterous .A clap on the back from me . :jap:

[PattayaParent]

Best to fix the fan to the concrete soffit of the floor above.

[Forkinhades]

Best to fix the fan to the concrete soffit of the floor above.

It dosnt seem like he has one

[ubonrthai]

I'm installing this on the 1st floor and their is concrete of the 2nd floor above, but I have no way of reaching it without cutting a very large hole in the ceiling. I attached a picture of what it looked like as the house was being built. There are no beams nearby where I'm installing.

I found a light piece of 2x4 which is 2 feet long that I can rest on the ceiling to screw into. Not sure if the ceiling is strong enough to handle the weight though. It feels like it would be. Where the metal piece is, is the center so I can rest the wood on top of the metal and screw through the drywall, metal and wood.

[ubonrthai]

This is the opposite end of the same room.

[pitanu]

i have large mitsubishi ceiling fans installed at home when i built my house, they were fixed to the concrete flooring above. using the suspended ceiling with a 4x2 is going to cause the ceiling to sag, and possibly crack, but before that happens the vibration will cause too much noise that you probably wouldn't turn it on again.

[ubonrthai]

Ugh, this project is out of my league now. It looks like it's time to find myself a chang.

Edited June 25, 2010 by ubonrthai

[Forkinhades]

5555

Cut yourself a piece of ply that will fit between the metal supports, screw into ply to secure, try to secure by fixing through the existing metal as well. Then fix the fan

I have the exact same ceiling, and used this method, no vibration

You could even put a 4x2 across the metal supports then fix

[Thaifan2]

5555

Cut yourself a piece of ply that will fit between the metal supports, screw into ply to secure, try to secure by fixing through the existing metal as well. Then fix the fan

I have the exact same ceiling, and used this method, no vibration

You could even put a 4x2 across the metal supports then fix

Good call . :jap: :jap: :jap:

[Crossy]

I'll concur with the ply solution. Spread the load and all should be well.

Moving to DIY

[elkangorito]

If the ceiling is plasterboard, it would be well advised to NOT use the ply solution...unless you are happy with cracks appearing down the track &/or the fan falling on your head.

If the ceiling is plasterboard, the fan needs to be anchored to something very solid. For example, the concrete floor above or a main structural beam (wood or steel). Since you don't have a structural wooden or steel beam to which to anchor, the concrete floor above is your only option. In this case, it's a good idea to 'Dynabolt' a piece of wood (e.g. a piece of 4" x 1" about 500mm long) to the concrete floor above & then the 'fan hook' can easily screw into the piece of wood (the fan screw is usually a 'self tapping' screw with a course thread). Your plaster ceiling needs to have a hole big enough to allow for any fan movement (at least 10mm clearance either side of the support rod).

False ceilings are not designed to hold any real weight...& a fan is 'real' weight, plus it has vibration.

If you want the thing to fall on your head in years to come, use the other methods described.

BTW, I'm an electrician & have installed many fans. I've also fixed quite a few 'near' disasters due to fans being installed incorrectly.

[Forkinhades]

@ crossy

spread the load.......there you go

[PhilHarries]

As Elkangorito says hanging any weight on a suspended ceiling is not a good idea, hanging a piece of rotating equipment on one even less so.

But go ahead, if when it's running you see waves moving across your ceiling it's only because it's in harmony with the fan speed.

Vibrations are curious things but nearly always entertaining. Do keep us posted.

[bankruatsteve]

I suppose there are good/bad installations of hanging ceilings, but hopefully they are VERY well supported (with the hangers). IE: you should be able to do chin ups from the rails. After all, they are supporting the plaster board that is the "false ceiling". Just screw into a rail or level it out if you need to be in between.

[Langsuan Man]

Hate to revive an old topic such as this but the only solution I have found on these Thai "drop" plaster ceilings is to have a device / bracket such as this affixed to the cement floor above, like so:

These picture were taken from my condo which has a normal drop down ceiling with large tiles that can easily be removed

Unfortunately I have not found out yet if this type of bracket is standard or has to be made in a metal shop, nor have I figured out how to affix such a bracket in a ceiling that is already finished

[doglover]

Well I can understand why you couldn't help yourself Langsuan Man as IMHO the subject had not been properly resolved. Proper ceiling fan installation is rather important for obvious reasons. Have to say I almost totally agree with Elkangorito except that I would insist on bringing down proper support to the false ceiling level so the fan support and housing is properly mounted flush with the underside of ceiling, if only for aesthetic reasons. After all, I'm fairly sure the reason they make the support housings attractive is not too impress the rats.

I was very impressed with that 1st photo you posted LM as that tripod support truly gives hope for (almost) professional installations along with the use of wire nuts and even taping the wire to the tripod to keep it somewhat in place (tape for an anchor is better than nothing anyway). But then I had a chuckle when I saw the 2nd photo. At least the rats will have something shiny to worship. So close, yet so far away.... I'm hoping that is was just an improper measurement that created the end result, but at least it is properly supported and that is the most important thing. Of course in the OP's scenario to get this tripod or another proper support mounted will take cutting out a section of the gypsum board for access. Quite a big job really.

But how about for a single storey where the only solid support will be a roof rafter most likely at least 2 meters up? If after the home construction has been completed I would use Forkinhades approach....

Cut yourself a piece of ply that will fit between the metal supports, screw into ply to secure, try to secure by fixing through the existing metal as well. Then fix the fan

However I would modify it by hanging some appropriately rated fixture chain from a rafter to support the weight of the fan. The plywood would be used to stop any side to side movement. Of course unless your Spiderman it could prove tricky to get a proper anchor into the rafter and subsequently hang the fixture chain. If not Spiderman the only proper support option left (that I see) is to somehow get a length (prolly 4 meters) of rafter type steel up in the attic and span and secure it across two existing horizontal structural supports centred over the fans desired location. If a sort of step has been added to this support then the fan could be mounted directly to it. Of course if the length is 4M it would be best to lay the steel as you would a rafter to prevent it from sagging (another big job with this install). Of course this would all be easy to do had it been completed during original construction.

Now the funny (and stupid) thing is that as I type this my ceiling fans are supported by quadrupled up rebar wire (hung from a rafters) rusting more by the day. With a piece of wood on top of the gypsum to screw the fan support into (I hope). Prolly going to let loose and knock me cold at the moment I hit 'Add Reply'

Unfortunately I was gullable enough to allow the local "pro" to rough in and wire my house while I was away working. Anyway, I may get off my ass one of these days and properly support my ceiling fans. The reason I know how they are supported is that I had to take down the ceiling fan above our bed as the motor is toast presumably due to undervoltage of supply.

So the main thing is. Make sure that adequate supports are installed during construction. Unless you have a hired a very professional outfit I would not hold my breath waiting for them to do this on their own accord. Make it happen!

[krading]

Ugh, this project is out of my league now. It looks like it's time to find myself a chang.

I'll have one with you, cheers

[David006]

If the ceiling is plasterboard, it would be well advised to NOT use the ply solution...unless you are happy with cracks appearing down the track &/or the fan falling on your head.

If the ceiling is plasterboard, the fan needs to be anchored to something very solid. For example, the concrete floor above or a main structural beam (wood or steel). Since you don't have a structural wooden or steel beam to which to anchor, the concrete floor above is your only option. In this case, it's a good idea to 'Dynabolt' a piece of wood (e.g. a piece of 4" x 1" about 500mm long) to the concrete floor above & then the 'fan hook' can easily screw into the piece of wood (the fan screw is usually a 'self tapping' screw with a course thread). Your plaster ceiling needs to have a hole big enough to allow for any fan movement (at least 10mm clearance either side of the support rod).

False ceilings are not designed to hold any real weight...& a fan is 'real' weight, plus it has vibration.

If you want the thing to fall on your head in years to come, use the other methods described.

BTW, I'm an electrician & have installed many fans. I've also fixed quite a few 'near' disasters due to fans being installed incorrectly.

hmmm...I have oscillating fans attached to the false ceiling , I just added additional lateral steels,across the top of two either side ie a &lt;deleted&gt; long bit of steel fed in through a small hole at the point of attachment near hangers....three have been up for nearly five years....do get drum effect to a degree but not vibration per seh..

...the forth one I have had to re-attach twice as my wonderful helpful step kids decided to clean said fan ( so they say...)in their bedroom by pulling on the cage front without holding the fan body I assume...did not come down though just bent the mounting plate....

The oscillating types attach to a plate via a bayonet type fitting...what a pain in the arse to line up on top of a ladder to 13ft ceilings upstairs...all a bit "Heath Robinson" really..

.the kids can get at the downstairs bedroom one by standing on the bed unfortunately...

Believe plywood is probably the best solution though maybe supported by additional hangers? need to cut a big hole though..easy to fix though..

....in a similar vein I attached a rather expensive and heavy brass and glass Victorian style light fitting in Oz by going upstairs a ripping up carpet, ripping up floor boards and adding a dummy joist with a big bloody bolt and steel plate to the fitting..as needs must...555..hope the current house owners never try to take that down!....

[Langsuan Man]

Pictures one and two are of the exact same installation, just a slightly different angle, to show the top anchor into the cement and the bottom where the fan pole screws in to the " tripod " plate. The plate is level but looks off kilter due to the angle of the camera

I took the picture by lifting up the nearest tile, holding it up with a fork, while I pointed the camera into the opening and took numerous shots. I picked the two best, just to be able to show my builder what I want

The fan hangs perfectly level due to the " ball " mechanism inside the gold cover

I did not do the installation but found it once I moved in and wanted to install a ceiling fan

[doglover]

Pictures one and two are of the exact same installation, just a slightly different angle, to show the top anchor into the cement and the bottom where the fan pole screws in to the " tripod " plate. The plate is level but looks off kilter due to the angle of the camera

I took the picture by lifting up the nearest tile, holding it up with a fork, while I pointed the camera into the opening and took numerous shots. I picked the two best, just to be able to show my builder what I want

The fan hangs perfectly level due to the " ball " mechanism inside the gold cover

I did not do the installation but found it once I moved in and wanted to install a ceiling fan

I realized they were both the same install and aware of how the ball mechanism works. I was only being critical of the one boo-boo. The fact that the support does not come down far enough as it will look quite odd having the fan rod coming out of a hole in the ceiling! That gold housing cover for the "ball" mechanism (and ball mechanism support of course) should be on the underside of the ceiling mounted flush. Other than that boo-boo it is a great job and great idea!

[Langsuan Man]

Oh, sorry I didn't know what you meant. Yes, and the side cut on the ceiling tile looks like hell too, but I was quite proud that I was able to build a stand of shipping boxes to raise the fan so that I could work on it by myself

Just didn't have the energy to try and find the correct sized drop bar, it was hard enough trying to get the local Thai hardware store owner to understand what size pipe fittings I needed and for what

Fortunately a friend clued me in on buying cheap disposable plastic gloves to keep the tiles relatively clean

[doglover]

Just didn't have the energy to try and find the correct sized drop bar, it was hard enough trying to get the local Thai hardware store owner to understand what size pipe fittings I needed and for what

I hear ya! I usually head off to the hardware store with a big list all excited about a new project and rarely return home with everything on that list. As you can see from your picture you have a real nice ceiling fan but (to me) it looks ridiculous with the drop rod coming out of that nasty hole. Also, if you have enough ceiling height the fan will be much more effective by adding a longer drop rod and getting some extra space between the fan and the ceiling (maybe this is what you were refering to when you mentioned correct sizing). But they certainly charge a pretty baht for the individual drop rods.... Maybe it would be a good idea to show your builder the picture of the custom made support tripod you have and the following picture lest he give you exactly what you have now.....

*good idea with wearing disposable plastic gloves when moving around the ceiling tiles*