A Sensitive Question For Gay People

[bina]

since we are on the animal subject, i can add this: donkeys horses and other equines do rape the mares, i.e. a new male (new lead male) will harrass and rape all mares, often causing abortions (miscarriages), thereby ensureing his own genetic continuation... they get pregnant by him once miscarried (mares come in to season a week after birth or abortion)... i've watched our main male physically rape every new female donkey introduced to the herd ( the new mare does not enjoy this, and sometimes we must interfere or he could injure her , or tire her out to exhaustion as she runs to avoid him, or kicks at him often for hours as he repeatedly mounts her, and this also includes using love bites /holding her neck causes pressure injuries, etc since she is not neccesarrily receptive i.e in season, but just new to the herd, and so does not 'stand' for him, as a receptive mare would do to a persistant male)

i've out grown PC.... 4 legs good, two legs bad!!!

[orchis]

My great aunt on my mother's side is lesbian, my uncle (mother's brother) is homosexual, his brother bisexual and I'm gay, I think some of it is genetical but it being gay it trips sideways a little instead of going down in a straight line.

None of my 3 bros or 2 sisters are gay and none of my cousins, although two are married male crossdressers.

So I really havent looked for a reason of my being gay, I just enjoy the ride.

[Steve2UK]

Having said all that, I turned up a fascinating article which supports a lot of what you say ("Homosexuality and the Nazi Party" by Scott Lively) - here:

http://www.leaderu.com/jhs/lively.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quick postscript relating to the article which I mentioned before. Thanks to diligent research by Migca, I now know that it was originally published in an extreme Catholic periodical with pronounced homophobic overtones. On that basis, IMHO, what it says should be regarded as somewhere between questionable and distorted. Still worth reading, but maintain a healthy scepticism if/while you do.

[ProThaiExpat]

Steve2uk: Good advice and it should be applied to all one's readings, including those in Thaivisa.

Since most of the "facts" alluded to in the article have good historical foundations, it is only the interpretations that are more suspect. Historical "fact" is by their nature suspect, often based on fable and only through dilligent research, by yourself or others can the reliability of the "fact" be relied on. Interpretations, in my view, are far less trustworthy that hearsay, which is inadmissable in court for obvious reasons.

My take on the article was that it correctly pointed out that Hitler was a sociopath with no regard for those he used to gain his meglomaniacal goals, so what's different about him when compared to the others power hungries, including Saddam Hussein. The reports of him being a male prostitute in his early years does not amaze me, as reports of Onnasis's early male sex for advantage likewise fail to amaze given his drive to rule his "empire".

[DJ Moore]

The churches position on homosexuality is that it is a "choice" and that homosexuals can be weaned off this behavior. Personally, I think this is &lt;deleted&gt;.

So, if we can agree that people don't choose to be gay, then we get to the "nurture versus nature" proposition.

What do gay people think?

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//Edit

//Remove references to child-sex

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In the late 1980's (since being a sub, in many ways) I meant someone who was a bit more dominating then most guys I was getting with. He introduced me to females in a demanding way, all in great fun let me say.

After a few years of that..... I now lean heavily towards men, but can enjoy certain activities with females.

In 1990 I made my first trip to Thailand.

Will relocate to the LOS within the next 3 years at most.

Lastly I just want to say, that enjoying both sexes has been (without doubt) a LEARNING experience.....DJM

Edited September 14, 2005 by mattnich

[ProThaiExpat]

"As the branch is bent, so grows the tree" is one theory of homosexual behaviour in adults and I suspect, one of the reasons pedophilia is so abhored by almost everyone. If it is true, a child is robbed of his natural right to choose his sexual preference, a true trajedy.

I don't know what studies show regarding the sexual preferences of those molested in childhood, when they become adults.

One thing is clear, what OPs sexual preferences as an adult would have been if he had not been molested at such a young age, will never be known.

From what I have read, those males complaining of early childhood molestation, have many issues to deal with as adults, but their sexual preference is largely unaffected., that is, their preferences are in proportion to gays vs. straights in the unmolested population. However, this view is only of a general nature and not supported by facts or studies.

Anyone have any information on this issue?

[DJ Moore]

The churches position on homosexuality is that it is a "choice" and that homosexuals can be weaned off this behavior. Personally, I think this is &lt;deleted&gt;.

So, if we can agree that people don't choose to be gay, then we get to the "nurture versus nature" proposition.

What do gay people think?

//Edit

//Remove references to child-sex

//

In the late 1980's (since being a sub, in many ways) I meant someone who was a bit more dominating then most guys I was getting with. He introduced me to females in a demanding way, all in great fun let me say.

After a few years of that..... I now lean heavily towards men, but can enjoy certain activities with females.

In 1990 I made my first trip to Thailand.

Will relocate to the LOS within the next 3 years at most.

Lastly I just want to say, that enjoying both sexes has been (without doubt) a LEARNING experience.....DJM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Opps.. I thought I put it as delicately as possible Sorry.... DJM

[britmaveric]

Not sure its genetic - I think its a preference. Why do certain people feel attracted to diff types of women? It just happens in this case race isnt the determining factor but its gender.

[PeaceBlondie]

"As the branch is bent, so grows the tree" is one theory of homosexual behaviour in adults and I suspect, one of the reasons pedophilia is so abhored by almost everyone.  If it is true, a child is robbed of his natural right to choose his sexual preference, a true trajedy.

I don't know what studies show regarding the sexual preferences of  those molested in childhood, when they become adults.

One thing is clear, what OPs sexual preferences as an adult would have been if he had not been molested at such a young age, will never be known.

From what I have read, those males complaining of early childhood molestation, have many issues to deal with as adults, but their sexual preference  is largely unaffected., that is, their preferences are in proportion to gays vs. straights in the unmolested population. However, this view is only of a general nature and not supported by facts or studies.

Anyone have any information on this issue?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I doubt there is any ironclad, for-sure information on this issue of whether children who have been sexually molested by an adult of their own gender end up to be homosexual. I doubt they do. This now becomes anecdotal evidence, but the American government audit agency GAO reviewed all the available professional studies, perhaps ten years ago, on this subject. They concluded that almost all of the studies were statistically flawed, obviously biased, or simply incomprehensible as to what they were doing and what they concluded. The few surveys that appeared to be comprehensive enough and properly conducted, showed no correlations at all. There is no evidence, apparently, that victims become offenders, or that most sex offenders were ever molested.

I appreciate Steven/IJWT's point that even when nature/inheritance isn't the cause, early nurture/experience can become irreversible. Another point, as well: most of us simply were not taught to be gay. In fact, we were taught nothing at all specifically about it. I've been on vacation now for eight days, and there's been no occasion where sexual preference has been mentioned. For most of the straight population, it's never discussed publicly. It's still what Oscar Wilde called it, 100 years ago: 'the love that dare not say its name.'

However, I'm speaking in the last few sentences about Western adults. Teenagers almost anywhere, as they go through puberty and decide what to do with their sexuality, give this gender preference serious consideration nowadays, because they can find ten times more information than their grandparents or parents could.

Back to Thailand. My former boyfriend, a Thai now 37 years old, said he knew before age 10 that he was gay, and it was very difficult to survive then as a gay person. He thinks it is much easier now. Surely the 11 to 20 year old gay male students that I've taught in northern Thailand over the last 26 months were open. Some, however (including two from the same neighborhood who are strangers, but could pass for twins!) hid it from their families for the longest time, although it was obvious to their classmates that they were gay.

Putting these subjects together, I find little fear among straight, adult Thais that katoeys will pervert their 'straight' children. They may fear that the open publicity about katoeys may help their children realize that being gay in Thailand in the 2550's will be much easier than it was for Grandpa.

[alexalex]

It all goes back to old question - christians and homosexuality.

May be the best answer for you will be next :

1. The bible is written very old time ago. We don't know - may be now mr. Christ can change his minds or correct us if we understanding bible not properly.

2. Everybody trying to explain biblie to another people - like him understand it = what cannot be correct, as any people (including priests) have own people minds and interests.

Bible is written for every people, to every one people can read and understand something for him from bible. Only that is important for him, not to explaining to another peoples.

If you check internet - you will see 2 points of view (really much more) about homosexuality and christian religion. One side talk what it ok and "Sodom & Gomora" not related with homosexuality while another talk what it related.

Who is correct - it not possibly to determine because brain of every people work different. Also here lots of more questions related divorces, "sex for fun", etc - which de-facto accepted by church, but directly prohibited at bible - "use sex for reproduction only".

3. If mr. god created also homosexuals (which present at any time of history and now) - it mean what him have some ideas for that peoples.

[PeaceBlondie]

AlexAlex, the question about Christianity and homosexuality is behind the WESTERN perception, but not the THAI perception.

Jesus Christ said nothing about homosexuality, and what the first 2/3rds of the Bible said about it are irrelevant for Christians. The Catholic Church is first to blame, and then the rest of the ´Church´- meaning, the Protestants. At least many of the Protestant denominations have started realizing that homophobia is entirely non-Christian.

Glad to see that you´re researching this, Alex-A. Anyway, living in Thailand, we don´t see much homophobia from Thais unless they´ve converted to an extreme form of Christianity.

[Guest endure]

AlexAlex, the question about Christianity and homosexuality is behind the WESTERN perception, but not the THAI perception.

Jesus Christ said nothing about homosexuality, and what the first 2/3rds of the Bible said about it are irrelevant for Christians.  The Catholic Church is first to blame, and then the rest of the ´Church´- meaning, the Protestants.  At least many of the Protestant denominations have started realizing that homophobia is entirely non-Christian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The British Quakers said in 1963:

"We affirm the love of God for all people, whatever their sexual orientation, and our conviction that sexuality is an important part of human beings as created by God, so that to reject people on the grounds of their sexual behaviour is a denial of God's creation."

Male homosexuality was a criminal offence in England until 1967.

Edited September 22, 2005 by endure

[ChrisP]

^ Isn't it still a criminal offense in Singapore and Malaysia..?

ChrisP

[PeaceBlondie]

It was still an offense in Texas, just a few years ago.