Discussion On Foods And Gm Crops

[femi fan]

Since thailand still to my knowledge pretty much sells produce grown locally, i particularly want this thread on this forum. I do also imagine that meat we buy here in chiang mai comes from animals reared fairly locally.

This is of course quite different to nations like the US and UK where crops and fruits can come from thousands of kms away, and where, i believe, there are little more than a dozen abbatoirs in each nation. I also know that much of the animal feed in such nations is from GM crops, and that in the US most processed foods contain ingredients from GM crops.

What i'm particularly interested in is finding out more about the state of foods - both plant food and animal-based food - that we eat in chiang mai and in thailand. Do animals here eat imported crops like corn from the US? Are crops like corn and soya bean grown in thailand normal, or GM? What are farm-raised fish and prawns fed on? What is the Thai Government's attitudes towards GM foods being sold in this country? Will they be, or have they been corrupted by monsanto?

Do products like wheat, oats, various forms of nuts that are sold here in chiang mai and imported from the US, have to be labeled if they're grown from GM seeds?

There are several questions on this topic, but while i have assumed thailand is much further behind on the path towards GM crops than the US or Canada, at least labeling laws help consumers in those countries. I know that the EU have basically just opened their doors to GM crops, and i know that countries like india and african nations are being, er, 'persuaded' to grow crops from monsanto's seeds.

I'm hoping this thread can become some kind of collection of posters' anecdotes and knowledge and ideas on how to keep GM foods from getting into our bodies in the absence of systematic labeling laws in thailand.

[naboo]

I'm not able to answer any of your questions, but I'll put a general perspective from a (slightly cynical) science background on GM crops. I'm aware people may choose to avoid GM crops for a number of reasons - religion being one, but the science is often misunderstood. So, starting with the arguments in favour..

GM crops can benefit people and the world because they allow us to grow crops using less pesticides and with a significantly higher yield. We can also grow crops with additional nutrients which can be very beneficial in areas of the world where deficiency diseases are prevalent. The majority of the genes inserted into the farmed crops come from natural sources, they're not artificial, just transplanted from one species to another. Finally, contrary to common belief, eating GM crops will not get these genes into you, the genes are broken down into their components (which are the same components across the species) before being absorbed into the body. 

Now, on the other hand....

The companies involved in GM foods are in it for the money. They're seeds are significantly more expensive than regular seeds. Not only that, but they often include what's called a terminator gene which makes the crops produced infertile. They (at least used to) claim this is to stop contamination of wild versions of the crops with their modified genomes, but in reality, its an excellent way of making sure the farmer has to come back to you year after year to get their seeds. Secondly there is a significant chance of contamination of wild plants with these genes, though natural selection would be expected to wipe out these deformed genomes in the wild. Over-production of food, where GM crops are producing a higher yield than usual, can drain farmland of its nutrients, making areas of farmland infertile in the future.

There are many more points which could be made, but this will hopefully inform one or two. Then there are the ethical arguments......

[femi fan]

Thanks for the input, but can i say from the outset i didn't have in mind a thread on the merits or otherwise of GM foods, rather to have a thread that can simply investigate the actual occurrence of GM crops and foods in the chiang mai and thailand food chain.

Please can posters limit their posts and discussion to what we already have by way of GM foods in our food chain, and not to whether we should have GM foods or not.

[Tywais]

Link to the BP deleted.

I also find this topic very thinly related to CM and would probably get more knowledgeable responses in the Farming in Thailand forum. If the OP wishes it moved just PM a moderator.

[jayjay0]

I'm not able to answer any of your questions, but I'll put a general perspective from a (slightly cynical) science background on GM crops. I'm aware people may choose to avoid GM crops for a number of reasons - religion being one, but the science is often misunderstood. So, starting with the arguments in favour..

GM crops can benefit people and the world because they allow us to grow crops using less pesticides and with a significantly higher yield. We can also grow crops with additional nutrients which can be very beneficial in areas of the world where deficiency diseases are prevalent. The majority of the genes inserted into the farmed crops come from natural sources, they're not artificial, just transplanted from one species to another. Finally, contrary to common belief, eating GM crops will not get these genes into you, the genes are broken down into their components (which are the same components across the species) before being absorbed into the body.

Now, on the other hand....

The companies involved in GM foods are in it for the money. They're seeds are significantly more expensive than regular seeds. Not only that, but they often include what's called a terminator gene which makes the crops produced infertile. They (at least used to) claim this is to stop contamination of wild versions of the crops with their modified genomes, but in reality, its an excellent way of making sure the farmer has to come back to you year after year to get their seeds. Secondly there is a significant chance of contamination of wild plants with these genes, though natural selection would be expected to wipe out these deformed genomes in the wild. Over-production of food, where GM crops are producing a higher yield than usual, can drain farmland of its nutrients, making areas of farmland infertile in the future.

There are many more points which could be made, but this will hopefully inform one or two. Then there are the ethical arguments......

Very informative what I get out of your post is there is nothing wrong with eating GM produced food's. I for one would be interested in the down side for the consumer health wise.

It would seem to me that to find out if they are produced in the Chiang Mai area one would go to the suppliers of seeds becouse there is no other way to grow it without purchasing the seed. If no seed is bought it ain't happening.

[naboo]

Very informative what I get out of your post is there is nothing wrong with eating GM produced food's.

I would never say that. As far as I'm concerned, there is no concern. But you cannot say "nothing wrong" with 100% certainty. There are too many unknowns.

[whiterussian]

Lots of abatoirs in the UK, I guess the same in Europe:http://www.statemast...toirs-in-the-UK

Resistance.....> can only be treated with ONE weedkiller/pesticide. Bought from seed company.

Mutatution.....> Bugs become resistant to said weedkiller/pesticide. Global GM foodstocks die. No variety. Blight. Instant transmission. One killer soy strain = wipe out.

All eggs in one basket.

Bees? 90% world reduction. They are dying. GM pollen? Other pollination vectors dying globally?... bye bye wildlife. Welcome to the matrix.

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Open source GM food? A step forward. See Indian farmer suicides. GM Animals. NO NO NO! Might as well admit defeat as a species if we start rearing box shaped chickens.

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Ultimately vegetarianism/organic livestock is the only sustainable and ethical way. In my opinion.

But I will miss burgers and steaks...

GM Chicken, Finger Likin Good!

If you want to feed the world... stop the food aid undercutting the local farmer. Stop the seed monopolies. The USA is the worlds worst offender against the 3rd world. source: CFR . Save the American peanut/maize farmer - send free (GM COPYRIGHTED - terminator?) food and seeds to Africa to kill the local economy!! (and dont forget to charge the seeds to the IMF)

The average EU cow is said to receive a $2.20 daily subsidy, more than the daily wage of 20 percent of the world's population.

...council on foreign relations

Edited June 30, 2010 by whiterussian

[whiterussian]

Genetically Modified Soy Linked to Sterility, Infant Mortality 07 June, 2010

"This study was just routine," said Russian biologist Alexey V. Surov, in what could end up as the understatement of this century. Surov and his colleagues set out to discover if Monsanto's genetically modified (GM) soy, grown on 91% of US soybean fields, leads to problems in growth or reproduction. What he discovered may uproot a multi-billion dollar industry.

After feeding hamsters for two years over three generations, those on the GM diet, and especially the group on the maximum GM soy diet, showed devastating results. By the third generation, most GM soy-fed hamsters lost the ability to have babies. They also suffered slower growth, and a high mortality rate among the pups.

And if this isn't shocking enough, some in the third generation even had hair growing inside their mouths—a phenomenon rarely seen, but apparently more prevalent among hamsters eating GM soy.

---------------------------------------------------------

2 birds with one stone? Profit and Population decrease! Whoopie!

[getgoin]

My wife used to save the big tin cans to bring to the village. The farmers would put the can over the head of a cabbage and spray around it with pesticide, move on to the next cabbage and repeat the process.

25 years ago when I went to my wife's family farm near Chiang Rai I used to love to have a drink from the well. The water tasted wonderful. In 2000 when I went to the farm and took a drink from the well it tasted of pesticide. Now those wells are drying up.

Will a Thai farmer buy a rice seed or corn seed that does not need as much water, chemical fertilizer and pesticide and has double the yield? Is this seed better or worse for us and the environment? These are the question that should be asked.

The US has a great organic food program. They have markets that cater to the health conscious consumer. Labels are clearly and accurately marked. Produce and meats are graded. Agriculture and chemicals are regulated.

Chiang Mai and Thailand are a long long way from even getting close to having a system put in place where people will abide by the rules. We will all be dead and gone, some of us with no offspring and hair inside our mouths and some of us with cancer, before these questions will be answered.

Hopefully, that will be before the ozone layer is depleted, we are struck with an almost incurable virus that turns us into flesh eating night stalkers, the earth's crust becomes unstable from solar flares, a deadly comet causes Armageddon and the conflicts in the Middle Eat cause World War III. Did I forget to mention The Rise of The Machines?

On that note...Pass the Doritos.

Edited June 30, 2010 by getgoin

[whiterussian]

The loss of a key species eg: Bees... freaks me out more than tainted water.

Imagine how fast a world would disintegrate without insects as pollinators.

chain reactions.

pesticide/fertiliser used less, great. Both poisons. But it still leaves the earth as nothing more than a sponge for additives.

You dont need to watch a movie to see the collapse. Growing up in the 'Garden of England' I have seen the death of local economy due to agricultural 'modernisation' and the march of 'wal-mart' .

Which is fine, if you want to live in a city of the future, compacted, compartmentalized, centralized, stock exchange listed..., coupon controlled, concreted.

And yes, I do walk the walk, while I am here. Thats why I'm here...the 'west' is now insane. Its easy to eat locally produced here. gawd bless em.

Edited June 30, 2010 by whiterussian

[Donnyboy]

GM Chicken, Finger Likin Good!

is that chicken for real?

[millwall_fan]

In a, probably forlorn attempt to answer the OP's point, I would suggest that there is no attempt in Chiang Mai province to protect the consumer from GM contaminated foodstuffs. That almost certainly GM crops are in the food chain and a component of everything we eat here in town. and that as long as a profit is being made not one food producer gives a sh*t whether GM products are in the food chain.

just a note to tywais: I'm glad this wasn't moved ot the farming forum, which, lets face it, few look at. This kind of issue does have local ramifications and should be aired on a mainstream forum, well done for leaving it here!

[whiterussian]

GM Chicken, Finger Likin Good!

is that chicken for real?

Yup!

Bald chicken 'needs no plucking

Scientists have bred a controversial featherless chicken which they say is faster growing.

The birds, created at the Hebrew University in Israel, will not need to be plucked, saving money in processing plants.

Actually, It's not GM, just selective breeding... "This is not a genetically modified chicken - it comes from a natural breed whose characteristics have been known for 50 years". "

but many other projects are underway worldwide eg:

In 1999, scientists at the University of Guelph in Ontario, Canada created the genetically engineered Enviropig™. The Enviropig excretes from 30 to 70.7% less phosphorus in manure depending upon the age and diet .

-----------

Given that we still dont know how many of us are infected with PRION diseases.. eg: mad cow, incubation period unknown... I would rather stick with real food as much as I can - or at least not support the meat sludge industry. Talking of which what is that Thai fascination with SPAM and 'Bologna' all about? Don't they know what that shit is? Its a sorry advert for Farang lifestyle

Edited June 30, 2010 by whiterussian

[mcgriffith]

My wife used to save the big tin cans to bring to the village. The farmers would put the can over the head of a cabbage and spray around it with pesticide, move on to the next cabbage and repeat the process.

25 years ago when I went to my wife's family farm near Chiang Rai I used to love to have a drink from the well. The water tasted wonderful. In 2000 when I went to the farm and took a drink from the well it tasted of pesticide. Now those wells are drying up.

Will a Thai farmer buy a rice seed or corn seed that does not need as much water, chemical fertilizer and pesticide and has double the yield? Is this seed better or worse for us and the environment? These are the question that should be asked.

The US has a great organic food program. They have markets that cater to the health conscious consumer. Labels are clearly and accurately marked. Produce and meats are graded. Agriculture and chemicals are regulated.

Chiang Mai and Thailand are a long long way from even getting close to having a system put in place where people will abide by the rules. We will all be dead and gone, some of us with no offspring and hair inside our mouths and some of us with cancer, before these questions will be answered.

Hopefully, that will be before the ozone layer is depleted, we are struck with an almost incurable virus that turns us into flesh eating night stalkers, the earth's crust becomes unstable from solar flares, a deadly comet causes Armageddon and the conflicts in the Middle Eat cause World War III. Did I forget to mention The Rise of The Machines?

On that note...Pass the Doritos.

I like it!.

No, it is not some international conspiracy from the dreaded Yanks.

Pretty much every developed country in the world is involved in agricultural research.

India in the 1970's was in famine, and millions were about to die...until some brilliant scientist used GM to create a Green Revolution.

Humans have genetically modified plants and animals for food for thousand of years. It is called hybridization and selective breeding.

When you have a strong bull, do you breed it with a sick feeble cow? No.

When you have rice that grows in semi-flooded conditions after planting, and seems more resistant to insects, do you save that seed? Yes.

I am not a scientist in agriculture, but my perspective is that of a consumer who thinks the GM horror story is just that. A form of paranoia.

We need to grow more food, with less water, for the millions more added to the world's population every year.

Pass the Doritos....

[Ulysses G.]

I am not a scientist in agriculture, but my perspective is that of a consumer who thinks the GM horror story is just that. A form of paranoia.

We need to grow more food, with less water, for the millions more added to the world's population every year.

Pass the Doritos....

How are you able to get a longterm Thai Visa without being one of the tin foil hat crew?

Edited June 30, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[femi fan]

In a, probably forlorn attempt to answer the OP's point, I would suggest that there is no attempt in Chiang Mai province to protect the consumer from GM contaminated foodstuffs. That almost certainly GM crops are in the food chain and a component of everything we eat here in town. and that as long as a profit is being made not one food producer gives a sh*t whether GM products are in the food chain.

just a note to tywais: I'm glad this wasn't moved ot the farming forum, which, lets face it, few look at. This kind of issue does have local ramifications and should be aired on a mainstream forum, well done for leaving it here!

Until your post my requests had been futile. Thanks for an attempt to bring the topic back on track. I have done loads of my own research on GM foods, and perhaps the politest reaction to put in words is, horrifying and alarming.

But i wanted to know to what extent GM foods had entered, first and foremost, the chiang mai foodchain, and secondly the thai foodchain. Hence my thread being on this forum, as you alone have recognised!

I am short of time for a few hours, but will be back in an attempt to steer us back on topic. If others would like to debate the merits of GM foods, then other forums exist for that. Please can posters get back on track?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I tried to post a link to the article from the bkk post but was deleted for forum rules or something.

Some testing was done recently showing which crops in thailand were being affected. Google bangkok post and GMO testing.

We all eat freaky food that was manipulated the old fashioned way of selective breeding. GMO can do it quicker. Eventually I expect GMO to be better for the immune system etc as they learn to tune it.. Right now it appears some GMO crops are slightly immune suppressive. Unfortunately traditionally bred or inbred fruits and vegetables have immune suppressive effects due to their high sugar content.

Bananas and corn are excellent examples how traditional breeding practices have completely sugarized the product.

Bon appetite

[femi fan]

I tried to post a link to the article from the bkk post but was deleted for forum rules or something.

Some testing was done recently showing which crops in thailand were being affected. Google bangkok post and GMO testing.

We all eat freaky food that was manipulated the old fashioned way of selective breeding. GMO can do it quicker. Eventually I expect GMO to be better for the immune system etc as they learn to tune it.. Right now it appears some GMO crops are slightly immune suppressive. Unfortunately traditionally bred or inbred fruits and vegetables have immune suppressive effects due to their high sugar content.

Bananas and corn are excellent examples how traditional breeding practices have completely sugarized the product.

Bon appetite

I think i found the article you linked to, and if so then it's a pity about forum rules because there are many points addressed in it that i wanted this thread to cover. So, many thanks for pointing me that way. If others are interested, just google exactly what cobra suggests; the headline is 'alarm raised over GM crop samples.

One excellent thing to be gleaned from the article is that:

"The commercial planting of GM crops is banned in Thailand. The government only allows field trials of the crops under the close supervision of the Department of Agriculture."

It would however be interesting to monitor what the outcomes are from the field trials, and the government's reactions. It would seem though that as yet, the thai government have had no pressuer from the likes of monsanto.

A bit alarming though to hear that GM seeds for soya crops appear to have been imported. I wonder if the farmers found to be using GM seeds actually knew what they were?

[femi fan]

It is worrying though that papayas were part of the GM foods found. I mean, there are thousands and millions of papayas grown in thailand, always have been, more than enough for anyone who wants to eat them, so why bother going down the GM route?? The article says it's likely the papayas found with GMO in them were contaminated from state-run field trials. Why are the government testing GM papayas? This indicates to me pressure from other countries, well, the USA. And that will be a very fast slippery slope, what with the millions on offer from monsanto as 'inducements' to make business for them favourable.

But it is good to see that organisations like the farmer advocacy group Biothai and the Academic Network on Bio-Resources Protection are working on our behalf. It seems that in general, at least for now, thai laws don't allow gmo foods to be sold in thailand, and that when gm crops are discovered we have groups to try and remind everybody the laws of the land.

But how well do such laws stop imports of GMO foods? In farang supermarkets there are any number of imported foods from the USA and australia, including processed foods and raw crops like wheat and oat from which breads, pies, mueslis are made over here and then sold on. This is why we may start to need labeling. Countries like the US where GMO foods are commonplace (and just look at the food and health problems people face in that country) have labeling laws to help health-conscious citizens avoid all this GM food, but since it's officially banned in thailand, theoretically one doesn't need labeling laws.

I hope when the time comes that the relevant thai government officials and politicians are able to withstand the pressures that the likes of monsanto will bring to bear. Strong labeling laws and control of imported ingredients are needed.

[femi fan]

Can i check with moderators the rule on links? I've now been finding other articles that are most relevant to this thread, including for example reading that thaksin reversed the laws on GMO foods in 2004, allowing imports to be made, but which hearteningly he was forced to reverse with a huge public outcry. Later in the article we read of USAID putting pressure on the likes of thailand and other developing and third world nations to import GM seeds.

It is clear that that the USA are at the forefront of pushing these GM seeds all around the world. If they want to push them on their own citizens, then fine, but rather like various other aspects of life, they're pushing their drugs on others as well, with the battle nearly always being between local people and their governments who are 'persuaded' to open their markets to monsanto.

It seems at this point in time that thailand, at least so far as thai foods and dishes are concerned, is relatively unscathed by GMO foods which is good news for those who don't want to be eating them. However, citizens need to remain vigilant and ensure that if and when the american companies and organistions use their money and power to reverse thai laws that we get proper labeling laws put in place to protect those citizens who don't want to eat such foods.

Unlike in the USA where between the dirctors of companies like monsanto and agencies like the FDA, they ensured that foods with GMO ingredients did not need to be labeled as such, in order to not 'unnecessarily spread fear and confusion amongst the citizens'.

[daoyai]

When I read the OP, I knew there would be those scoffing at the concern, by the way, the "green revolution" was a failure, replacing many varieties of rice with one high yield variety that ultimatly got a disease and failed, causing famine. The reference to "tin hat" ....come on UG is that the best you can do?

As to the topic, at a recent Mae Jo uni. farm fair I noticed many of the stalls and farm plots advertised that their products were not GMO, so there is awareness.

GMO papayas are the norm now in Hawaii due to the ring spot virus. The gmo pollen has invaded fields of non gmo papayas, the virus has also evolved to infest the gmo variety.

Selective breeding and GMO are not the same. It seems some people have strong opinions based on ignorence. Are the crops safe to eat? Who knows, the long term testing has not been done, will they escape to the wild and cross polinate traditional varieties?, yes, that is proven. Is it a plan to control farmers and patent life forms? obviously..

[Ulysses G.]

The reference to "tin hat" ....come on UG is that the best you can do?

Actually, I an including myself as I read a lot of holistic health literature and some of it is pretty far out there. I was just surprised that mcgriffith is so conventionally sensible when it comes to such things.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I think where the hysteria starts is with the misconception that crops like Papaya, watermelons, carrots, corn, pineapple, tomatoes and many other are native or genetically specific to Thailand. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The above species were commerce motivated strains introduced to Thailand to grow for food. Papaya's in particular have only been grown in thailand for 150 to 170 years.

So it's not the end of the world if some of these introduced varieties are affected. It's common for better strains to take over for weaker or pest related strains over time. Take for instance the Cavendish Banana strain taking over for the Gros Michel strain. Neither by the way were native to SEA.

I don't think anyone is trying to say hybridization and selective breeding is the same as GM. Selective breeding and cross hybridization are designed to induce and selectively pursue genetic variations. It's okay for food crops but if you try to have sex with your cousin in West Virginia then you might get thrown in jail.

My point being GM infringing on the already freak world of produce is not that big a deal.

GM is much more aggressive and ultimately has a lot more potential as well as danger. Only time will tell how it plays out. I tend to be an optimist.

I am sure 150+ years ago when Papaya's were introduced to Thailand there were lots of people up in religious arms about the invasion of this new alien food technology and how it was going to affect the crops that were already here.

[Ulysses G.]

I really admire CobraSnakeNecktie's posts on these matters. 

[ChiangMaiIB]

I think where the hysteria starts is with the misconception that crops like Papaya, watermelons, carrots, corn, pineapple, tomatoes and many other are native or genetically specific to Thailand. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The above species were commerce motivated strains introduced to Thailand to grow for food. Papaya's in particular have only been grown in thailand for 150 to 170 years.

So it's not the end of the world if some of these introduced varieties are affected. It's common for better strains to take over for weaker or pest related strains over time. Take for instance the Cavendish Banana strain taking over for the Gros Michel strain. Neither by the way were native to SEA.

I don't think anyone is trying to say hybridization and selective breeding is the same as GM. Selective breeding and cross hybridization are designed to induce and selectively pursue genetic variations. It's okay for food crops but if you try to have sex with your cousin in West Virginia then you might get thrown in jail.

My point being GM infringing on the already freak world of produce is not that big a deal.

GM is much more aggressive and ultimately has a lot more potential as well as danger. Only time will tell how it plays out. I tend to be an optimist.

I am sure 150+ years ago when Papaya's were introduced to Thailand there were lots of people up in religious arms about the invasion of this new alien food technology and how it was going to affect the crops that were already here.

I can have sex with my cousin but how about if I try and clone her in my laboratory, put her on Loi Kroh, and patent everyone she has relations with

The science behind food shortage due to seed capacity is questionable at best --- the food transportation network is based on money, not off necessity

These are the same guys that brought us Agent Orange --- why would you even question their motives for profits over consumer safety

Edited July 1, 2010 by ChiangMaiIB

[ChiangMaiIB]

When I read the OP, I knew there would be those scoffing at the concern, by the way, the "green revolution" was a failure, replacing many varieties of rice with one high yield variety that ultimatly got a disease and failed, causing famine. The reference to "tin hat" ....come on UG is that the best you can do?

As to the topic, at a recent Mae Jo uni. farm fair I noticed many of the stalls and farm plots advertised that their products were not GMO, so there is awareness.

GMO papayas are the norm now in Hawaii due to the ring spot virus. The gmo pollen has invaded fields of non gmo papayas, the virus has also evolved to infest the gmo variety.

Selective breeding and GMO are not the same. It seems some people have strong opinions based on ignorence. Are the crops safe to eat? Who knows, the long term testing has not been done, will they escape to the wild and cross polinate traditional varieties?, yes, that is proven. Is it a plan to control farmers and patent life forms? obviously..

Monoculture is the number 1 cause of pestilence and disease in crops - (MON) santo

to keep it TV level - why are there so many fat/ ugly chicks in the UK and US? If it has anything to do with food quality, I will burn every GM crop around to ensure I have eye candy from every direction at all hours of the day

[ChiangMaiIB]

I just put on my tin (foil) hat

So go the bees, so go the latest Enki experiment

The B's (Bees) are, as my dear ex president would say "the smoking gun"

[heybruce]

Genetically Modified Soy Linked to Sterility, Infant Mortality 07 June, 2010

"This study was just routine," said Russian biologist Alexey V. Surov, in what could end up as the understatement of this century. Surov and his colleagues set out to discover if Monsanto's genetically modified (GM) soy, grown on 91% of US soybean fields, leads to problems in growth or reproduction. What he discovered may uproot a multi-billion dollar industry.

After feeding hamsters for two years over three generations, those on the GM diet, and especially the group on the maximum GM soy diet, showed devastating results. By the third generation, most GM soy-fed hamsters lost the ability to have babies. They also suffered slower growth, and a high mortality rate among the pups.

And if this isn't shocking enough, some in the third generation even had hair growing inside their mouths—a phenomenon rarely seen, but apparently more prevalent among hamsters eating GM soy.

---------------------------------------------------------

2 birds with one stone? Profit and Population decrease! Whoopie!

I found this part of the study especially interesting:

"The study, jointly conducted by Surov's Institute of Ecology and Evolution of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the National Association for Gene Security, is expected to be published in three months (July 2010)—so the technical details will have to wait."

Conducted by who? Peer reviewed by who? Unpublished?

If I hunted on the internet enough I'm sure I could find research that proves President Obama wasn't born in the U.S., in spite of statements from the hospital he was born in, newspaper articles announcing his birth, the copy of his birth certificate posted on the internet by the White House and the FBI background investigation conducted on all presidential candidates. I could also find "proof" of UFO's, Bigfoot, and every conspiracy you wanted to believe in.

Can you provide a link to any published studies from well known organizations that reach similar doomsday conclusions?

[heybruce]

I just put on my tin (foil) hat

So go the bees, so go the latest Enki experiment

The B's (Bees) are, as my dear ex president would say "the smoking gun"

The collapse of the population of bees used to pollinate commercial crops has been blamed on parasitic mites, pollution, radiation from mobile phone signals, the stress of transporting commercial bees cross country to crops that need bees for pollination, and probably many other things. Few, if any, GM crops rely on bees for pollination. But I'm sure if you search the internet enough you will find a study by some obscure organization that proves that GM is responsible for the declining bee population.

Edited July 1, 2010 by heybruce

[Ulysses G.]

Conducted by who? Peer reviewed by who? Unpublished?

If I hunted on the internet enough I'm sure I could find research that proves President Obama wasn't born in the U.S., in spite of statements from the hospital he was born in, newspaper articles announcing his birth, the copy of his birth certificate posted on the internet by the White House and the FBI background investigation conducted on all presidential candidates. I could also find "proof" of UFO's, Bigfoot, and every conspiracy you wanted to believe in.

Can you provide a link to any published studies from well known organizations that reach similar doomsday conclusions?

If you check out the private forums - like Bedlam - you will find that White Russian seems to specialize in "unusual" (conspiracy) theories.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Ulysses G.