Bangkok Takes Stern Step Against Roaming Elephants Owners

[hunglikea]

Two points: First I am happy that NNT got it right. These are NOT "stray" elephants! "Roaming" will do fine. Secondly . .I have only seen begging elephants that have been well cared for. I am against any kind of animal cruelty, but I fail to see the simple act of taking an elephant around a city or town as "cruel".They are domesticated animals here; . . .like horses and cows . . .and their traditional domesticated use ( logging) has been eliminated. So now they have another "occupation" and it is a dam_n sight easier on them than logging! They are a part of the Thai scene. I like to see them around and I am delighted when I come across one. Regulate them, insist on their good care of course. If the animal cruelty activists want to get involved here in Thailand, worry about the millions of half dead dogs, the inhumane way farm animals are treated before slaughter . .go to your nearest wet market and see fish, turtles and other creatures kept in horrible conditions while they wait to be sold. The elephants are the least of your worries here; .believe me.

Please use the preview button, as I couldn't understand what you were saying with the formating issues on your post. But I agree with what you are saying. Elephants are revered here in Thailand and are relatively well cared for. But still I though when I saw them on the streets being used for begging, I didn't personally care for it... I thought the red light on it's tail was somewhat amusing though...

I'm so sad to repeatedly see this kind of profound ignorance about animal welfare repeatedly propounded on these types of threads........it is SO wide of the mark one wouldn't know where to start.

The above poster is absolutely clueless.

It would take an age to set him right - so may I suggest you just spend ten minutes on google or in a library and get in line with the issues.

Both posters haven't a clue and are probably not even in Thailand.

[Jimi007]

Two points: First I am happy that NNT got it right. These are NOT "stray" elephants! "Roaming" will do fine. Secondly . .I have only seen begging elephants that have been well cared for. I am against any kind of animal cruelty, but I fail to see the simple act of taking an elephant around a city or town as "cruel".They are domesticated animals here; . . .like horses and cows . . .and their traditional domesticated use ( logging) has been eliminated. So now they have another "occupation" and it is a dam_n sight easier on them than logging! They are a part of the Thai scene. I like to see them around and I am delighted when I come across one. Regulate them, insist on their good care of course. If the animal cruelty activists want to get involved here in Thailand, worry about the millions of half dead dogs, the inhumane way farm animals are treated before slaughter . .go to your nearest wet market and see fish, turtles and other creatures kept in horrible conditions while they wait to be sold. The elephants are the least of your worries here; .believe me.

Please use the preview button, as I couldn't understand what you were saying with the formating issues on your post. But I agree with what you are saying. Elephants are revered here in Thailand and are relatively well cared for. But still I though when I saw them on the streets being used for begging, I didn't personally care for it... I thought the red light on it's tail was somewhat amusing though...

I'm so sad to repeatedly see this kind of profound ignorance about animal welfare repeatedly propounded on these types of threads........it is SO wide of the mark one wouldn't know where to start.

The above poster is absolutely clueless.

It would take an age to set him right - so may I suggest you just spend ten minutes on google or in a library and get in line with the issues.

This is Thailand, not somewhere they are a lot of animal rights activists. Do you think keeping an elephant in a small zoo in you home country is better? Thailand has some very strict laws about the export of elephants. So, everything here is not the same as where you came from... Koh jai mai?

[Spalpeen]

<BR>i think its only elephants wearing red shirts that they are cracking down on <IMG class=bbc_emoticon alt= src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif"><BR>

Edited July 3, 2010 by Spalpeen

[thaisomchai]

Two points: First I am happy that NNT got it right. These are NOT "stray" elephants! "Roaming" will do fine. Secondly . .I have only seen begging elephants that have been well cared for. I am against any kind of animal cruelty, but I fail to see the simple act of taking an elephant around a city or town as "cruel".They are domesticated animals here; . . .like horses and cows . . .and their traditional domesticated use ( logging) has been eliminated. So now they have another "occupation" and it is a dam_n sight easier on them than logging! They are a part of the Thai scene. I like to see them around and I am delighted when I come across one. Regulate them, insist on their good care of course. If the animal cruelty activists want to get involved here in Thailand, worry about the millions of half dead dogs, the inhumane way farm animals are treated before slaughter . .go to your nearest wet market and see fish, turtles and other creatures kept in horrible conditions while they wait to be sold. The elephants are the least of your worries here; .believe me.

Please use the preview button, as I couldn't understand what you were saying with the formating issues on your post. But I agree with what you are saying. Elephants are revered here in Thailand and are relatively well cared for. But still I though when I saw them on the streets being used for begging, I didn't personally care for it... I thought the red light on it's tail was somewhat amusing though...

I'm so sad to repeatedly see this kind of profound ignorance about animal welfare repeatedly propounded on these types of threads........it is SO wide of the mark one wouldn't know where to start.

The above poster is absolutely clueless.

It would take an age to set him right - so may I suggest you just spend ten minutes on google or in a library and get in line with the issues.

This is Thailand, not somewhere they are a lot of animal rights activists. Do you think keeping an elephant in a small zoo in you home country is better? Thailand has some very strict laws about the export of elephants. So, everything here is not the same as where you came from... Koh jai mai?

Kao jai!

Have to agree with you Jimi. This is Thailand . .and there are far more serious animal rights issues to be tackled. As I recommend, take a walk through the nearest wet market.

I do live in Thailand. I saw a begging elephant just last week here in Hua HIn. . .attended by three "owners" or food sellers or whatever you wish to call them.

I repeat that I want them well cared for, but the simple act of touring with them for food ( human & animal) is still not something I can get excited about. As cities not being their habitat? All the dangers you list are what humans have to put up with as well. The elephants are no better or worse off than their handlers.

I do not know that they are underfed, fed drugs or whatever and I am not a vet either . . .and I am not inclined to blindly accept what others think is going on here.

Reminds me of arguments I have had with family about the merits of only eating "free range chickens" which have lead happy lives prior to their slaughter for food.

Is the animal HAPPY?

PS I went back TWICE to make my post behave. Sorry

Edited July 3, 2010 by thaisomchai

[Jimi007]

Two points: First I am happy that NNT got it right. These are NOT "stray" elephants! "Roaming" will do fine. Secondly . .I have only seen begging elephants that have been well cared for. I am against any kind of animal cruelty, but I fail to see the simple act of taking an elephant around a city or town as "cruel".They are domesticated animals here; . . .like horses and cows . . .and their traditional domesticated use ( logging) has been eliminated. So now they have another "occupation" and it is a dam_n sight easier on them than logging! They are a part of the Thai scene. I like to see them around and I am delighted when I come across one. Regulate them, insist on their good care of course. If the animal cruelty activists want to get involved here in Thailand, worry about the millions of half dead dogs, the inhumane way farm animals are treated before slaughter . .go to your nearest wet market and see fish, turtles and other creatures kept in horrible conditions while they wait to be sold. The elephants are the least of your worries here; .believe me.

Please use the preview button, as I couldn't understand what you were saying with the formating issues on your post. But I agree with what you are saying. Elephants are revered here in Thailand and are relatively well cared for. But still I though when I saw them on the streets being used for begging, I didn't personally care for it... I thought the red light on it's tail was somewhat amusing though...

I'm so sad to repeatedly see this kind of profound ignorance about animal welfare repeatedly propounded on these types of threads........it is SO wide of the mark one wouldn't know where to start.

The above poster is absolutely clueless.

It would take an age to set him right - so may I suggest you just spend ten minutes on google or in a library and get in line with the issues.

Both posters haven't a clue and are probably not even in Thailand.

I must need a clue, I guess I don't have one tonight! There are at least 40 elephants that live up the road from me and I know several manhouts pretty well. So, please give me a clue, where I am?

Edited July 3, 2010 by Jimi007

[thaisomchai]

Jimi . .I would guess these "activists" are not in Thailand! And have no clue about the situation here at all except what they get on google or whatever website

[hunglikea]

The wet market fish sales have no bearing on the OP!

Elephants do not choose to lumber through city streets whereas their ‘mahout’ chooses it for the elephants. Zoos are not as appalling but a close second!

YES they are underfed, babies undernourished and taken away from their mother at too early an age so their limbs suffer due to lack of calcium from the milk.

They are usually ‘stolen’ up country and paraded until they fail to be of use or too expensive too feed!

Khun mai kao jai!

[hunglikea]

Jimi, who and what are these 'manhouts' by the way.

You certainly know your stuff, I'm impressed

Edited July 3, 2010 by hunglikea

[thaisomchai]

Deeral . .that post doesnt even make sense. . .and by the way, who died and put you in charge of the world?

"Profound ignorance" works both ways here . . .and I see in your posts a profound ignorance of Thai ways, Thai culture, Thai history the Thai economy and Thailand in general!

Hey . . .thats me out of here. Let me know when you arrive in Thailand and have solved your perceived "problem". . .and lots of luck.

(Chokdee Jimi!)

[Jimi007]

The wet market fish sales have no bearing on the OP!

Elephants do not choose to lumber through city streets whereas their 'mahout' chooses it for the elephants. Zoos are not as appalling but a close second!

YES they are underfed, babies undernourished and taken away from their mother at too early an age so their limbs suffer due to lack of calcium from the milk.

They are usually 'stolen' up country and paraded until they fail to be of use or too expensive too feed!

Khun mai kao jai!

Koh jai laew, krup khun krap.

[moe666]

I wonder when they do the crackdown on roaming ladyboys?

And how about rather then cracking down on elephant owners they introduce license prior anyone being able to purchase an elephant.

Most if not all of those who bring elephants into the city make a living from the tourist and thats how they feed the gentle giants, now that they can not-how will they feed them or wil they feed them at all?

Gentle giants your kidding right, they can and will kill you under the circomstance

[kuffki]

I wonder when they do the crackdown on roaming ladyboys?

And how about rather then cracking down on elephant owners they introduce license prior anyone being able to purchase an elephant.

Most if not all of those who bring elephants into the city make a living from the tourist and thats how they feed the gentle giants, now that they can not-how will they feed them or wil they feed them at all?

Gentle giants your kidding right, they can and will kill you under the circomstance

No i am not kidding, you may want to do some reading about the animal but if reading is a problem, then just watch animal or discovery channel.

Its very rare for elephant to attack human for no reason, and times when it did happened, animal was under stress.

Elephants do not eat flesh, nor do the roam the jungle looking for someone to kill.

PS. a mosquito can kill under the circumstance.

Edited July 3, 2010 by kuffki

[Jimi007]

I wonder when they do the crackdown on roaming ladyboys?

And how about rather then cracking down on elephant owners they introduce license prior anyone being able to purchase an elephant.

Most if not all of those who bring elephants into the city make a living from the tourist and thats how they feed the gentle giants, now that they can not-how will they feed them or wil they feed them at all?

Gentle giants your kidding right, they can and will kill you under the circomstance

No i am not kidding, you may want to do some reading about the animal but if reading is a problem, then just watch animal or discovery channel.

Its very rare for elephant to attack human for no reason, and times when it did happened, animal was under stress.

Elephants do not eat flesh, nor do the roam the jungle looking for someone to kill.

PS. a mosquito can kill under the circumstance.

Elephants in the wild roam in herds. Their sense of smell is very keen. They will attack people who invade their territory. There aren't very many wild elephants left in Thailand, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about this! Elephants are captured in the wild here by digging pits and covering them. The elephant falls in and then is overwhelmed by people with torches and chains to make it submit to their capturers. They often burn the elephant with the torches between the eyes to instill fear in the captive elephant. Then begin other means to make them submissive to their new masters. But what do I know? It's just what I hear when I talk to my old Thai friend about it. He manages an elephant trekking business and cares about the elephants and gibbons in his part of the world.

Mosquitos do spread disease, I can attest to that! As I've had a virus I caught from one, for almost a year now. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Ah, maybe a couple of people, I can think of...

[debbiev]

Good! I hope they do also "crackdown" on the tourists feeding the animals. Charge them a thousand baht for the crime. To most tourists that won't be enough money to hurt, but enough to send the message. The word will travel like wildfire--tour companies, travel blogs, etc. No more elephant feedings, no more revenue for the "renters" or mahouts. The practice will have to stop. The Thai government will make money (for a while). Everyone will be happy. Well, that is, except for the ones exploiting the elephants.

[bkkbrad]

I hope this will include the suburbs and not just the city...I am in Bang Plee close to Theparak/Srinakarin junction and see elephants almost every day.

[cobra]

Though the interaction with legitimate albeit uninformed tourists is a delight and great photo op for bored vacationers,

it is hard on the elephants, the vehicle exhaust, the hard walking surfaces, they truly look miserable..

Edited July 3, 2010 by cobra

[IvanDobsky]

"over 80 elephants have been returned to the forest"

'The forest' - I love that. Where exactly is The Forest? I don't know where you posters/members/readers live but do you still have forest in your province? Our province is mostly farmland, including the alleged 'national parks'.

[nycjoe]

I went to Nong Nooch gardens In jomptien and they had returned the orangoutangs to the zoo. They had them as photo ops a few years ago but were made to stop the pracice, change is coming but slowly.

[cdnvic]

Off topic arguments and insults deleted.

[zappalot]

<BR>I am quite sure you have a nice home for elephants.

Why is a tourist walking down the street who sees a elephant a idiot? But one who spends a lot of money to go to Chiang Rai where he can spend more money to see a elephant not a idiot. Y

maybe u should get some information first. indeed there are at least two very nice places in northern thailand for elephants, where they get the best treatment possible nowadays.

just c here: elephantnaturepark

[Forethat]

As with everything, there is a reason this problem is not dealt with. There have been a couple of attempts to remove the elephants from the streets; one of them included giving the mahout a sum of money each month if he kept the elephant away from the streets. It appeared to be working for a while, but most of the elephants eventually returned. Probably because they make much more money walking the streets of BKK, even after paying off who ever they're paying off...

But, "as with everything", there's also a simple way to solve this problem once and for all. If I was in charge of this, I would force each tourist to sign a document when they walk through immigration. On the document they would agree NOT to feed any elephants, and if they did, they'd get a SEVERE fine. Problem solved. And when I say severe I mean severe.

I've tried to talk to tourists a couple of times. Tell them why they shouldn't pay money to feed the cute little elephant calve who's mother was killed when the calve was poached from the wild. It never works, they usually tell me to sod off.

The question is what happens to the elephant IF they're kept away from the streets. Some of them starve to death. In my opinion, anything would be better than having to walk for hours and hours in the streets of BKK, getting their feet destroyed by concrete, constantly suffer from infections caused by cuts and bruises, drinking polluted water and breathing fumes. I've heard stories about mahouts feeding the baby elephant with yaa-baa to keep them awake...

It'd probably be better to put an end to the elephants misery. In fact, the bullshit farang who pay them can join the elephant on his way...

Edited July 4, 2010 by Forethat

[harrry]

It is not legal to feed varying classes of animals in several countries.

As an example you can be , and people have, be arrested for feeding fish to dolphins in Western Australia. Feeding feral animals in cities causes many problems and encourages them to remain.

[Fatboysrule]

Hi, I almost hit a small elephant that was being led across the main road in Hua Hin last night. Does anyone know who to report these guys to in Hua Hin? Thank you

[dantilley]

Hi, I almost hit a small elephant that was being led across the main road in Hua Hin last night. Does anyone know who to report these guys to in Hua Hin? Thank you

The phone number given in the OP, 1555, would be a good place to start.

Actually, it would be interesting to hear of any first hand reports of people phoning that number.

[7by7]

Another post deleted.

I know that this is an emotive subject, but keep the petty insults out of it.

[lonewolf99]

This whole thread has gone nuts...the bottom line is "Someone" is doing "something" about animal welfare in Thailand and about time.

I could be completely wrong...but I can only go by what Thai people tell me.

You do need a licence to own and elephant in Thailand. Again I could be wrong - they told me it costs 800,000 Baht to own an Elephant with the correct paperwork ??? (Dont shoot me I am just telling it as I was told)

The Thai Govt has been confiscating elephants from people without the neccesary paperwork.

The report states 80 elephants were returned to the wild. Good.

No one can take monkeys / marmosets / bush babys / Slow Loris's/ pythons and Pangolins onto the streets of the UK to make money by having "take Photo" So why should it happen any where else?

There was enough of a scandal a few years back about lions in pubs in Spain and that was soon stopped by public pressure.

If Thailand's so called " National Parks' were brimming with wild life instead of just trees and long necked people. Tourists would be flocking to the place. As long as they paid the same price to see a WATERFALL !!!

No one goes to Kenya to see animals in a box or roaming the streets of Nairobi.

Kasiranga park in India gets more tourists year on year. Why ? because there are actually animals in the jungle - where they belong.

Nuff said..............:jap:

Edited July 4, 2010 by lonewolf99

[jcbangkok]

Violators will be subject to a 6-month jail term or a 10,000-THB fine. The law, which has been put in effect since 22 June,

also applies to people who buy food for the elephants

And remind me ... what was the "possible" penalty for all those in the Red Shirt mob who refused numerous lawful orders to disband their month long seizure of the Bangkok commercial district?????

I am certainly not against discouraging the harm to elephants but somehow I don't think feeding an elephant and being part of a mob holding a city hostage and taking on military and police should be in the realm of similar consequences.

[jcbangkok]

Hi, I almost hit a small elephant that was being led across the main road in Hua Hin last night. Does anyone know who to report these guys to in Hua Hin? Thank you

The phone number given in the OP, 1555, would be a good place to start.

Actually, it would be interesting to hear of any first hand reports of people phoning that number.

Let us know how much you were fined for almost hitting the elephant too

[Briggsy]

"BMA takes stern step against roaming elephants’ owners "

What? Again?

[khaowong1]

I've been coming to Thailand since the mid 80's and have lived here for the last 4 years. Every year they have a crackdown on roaming elephants. This is nothing new and in about 3 months they will be back roaming Sukhumvit.