Thailand Urged To Provide Incentives For Women To Produce 'Qualitative' Children

[bkkjames]

The need for an intelligent educated set of  parents is essential, that starts at the grass roots. A decent education system , followed by a dramatic change in society where parents actually look after their own offspring and not farm them out to aged relatives.

To solve the farming out problem would mean an all round increase in salaries/ wages so as to encourage mum or dad to stay home and actually be a parent.

The necessity for a decent maternity leave is needed however as far as  I am aware that there are provisions in place for such leave here in Thailand.

However, remember, we create that child between ourselves and our partner, but we don't know what we are going to get, what we get may differ very much from what we expect.

I've seen kids from appalling backgrounds grow and prosper , I've also seen kids from privileged backgrounds sink below the gutter, parenting is dammed hard work. After bringing up, and still bringing up four boys I assure you my wife (who is Thai) and myself are still learning day to day.

Our children have never been farmed out,however family contact  has always been a prominent part of their upbringing.

The learned Ajarn who is responsible for the original article indeed needs to actually get in contact with the grass roots parents to see how they exist, then let us see what ideas and theories this high minded isolated from reality  intellectual can propound and even put into practice so as to benefit the upcoming generations of Thai's

The whole gamut of parenthood like childhood is a vast unexplored scene of if's and but's, I wish I had done this or not done that. Social pressures financial pressures, indeed a frightening prospect but a damm good ride in my view.

Strange as it may seem most parents irrespective of social levels ,education or location do a pretty good job of bringing up their children in Thailand considering the rigid constraints that bind the majority of people into a form of debt bondage and servitude that binds them to a sometimes dysfunctional family.

Once the state becomes involved that is the downward slope, North Korea, China, many more can be mentioned, my own country the U.K. has all but destroyed childhood and parents and children's rights in its pursuit of political correctness and conformity .

The industry that has sprouted from the caring society in the U.K. has created far more victims than it has or ever will save.Strangely enough that industry is staffed in the main by unmarried and childless overpaid people  with no insight into reality

Governments and politicians and intellectuals have no insight nor right in interfering in family matters in the main.

Parenthood is our personal duty and we should be able to understand that which is best for our children.

This is unlike some isolated government mandarin jobsworth whose only concern is, what is my next  promotion, and what will my pension be worth when I retire ?

That's an interesting post. Do you have a blog or summat?

I agree that kids here seem to arrive at early adulthood often better adjusted than back home in the UK, even if they lack some basic knowledge about history, geography or algebra. Sweeping generalisation, granted. Sometimes it seems as if it is society itself that is bringing up the child.

Sorry, is that typo? Most Uni Grads here couldnt tie their shoelaces mate while reading their comic books. Sweeping generalisation, granted.

[HakimKlunker]

Smart women produce smarter children.

The men side is not an influential factor.

:POr: smart men DON'T produce children in Thailand

[z21rhd]

The very first thing required in Thailand is good every day English spoken by the academics. Prof Pramote Pras artful's use of the term "qualitative" cannot be applied to the children.

Why not use the term "well educated" or a well rounded education.

The use of the Thai script in Thailand's education system is the major drawback in provide literacy skills. The standard of English spoken and written by 95% of Thailand's teachers is appalling.

Do away with the Thai script - bring thousands of native English speaking teachers and and children into the schools.

Have at least one English TV channel

BTW.. The use of the Terms "Qualitative and Quantitative"

Refer to the way Research is conducted -- That is to say

Qualitative Research or Quantitative Research.

During a scientific project an individual scientist may use quantitative research and later use qualitative research.

Edited July 12, 2010 by z21rhd

[Darkling]

The death rate is falling, that is amazing.

I assumed it would stay at 100% like other countries.

[Mitker]

<br>This report doesn't make sense : it amounts to " there's a decline in birth rate, so let's make less children"  <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/crazy.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=""><br>

<br><br>I don't see it that way.<br>First the report doesn't mention any measure proposed by the Prof Pramote Prasartful, only trends and measures taken in other countries. The only thing the Prof says is that it is preferable to focus on qualitative criteria than on quantitative. It makes a lot of sense to me.<br>Personally I see it as a kind of relief to finally witness a shift of attitude towards demography.<br>This planet has to bear an endlessly growing number of habitants fighting for limited ressources.<br>Government seeing population numbers as some kind of assets made sense during XVIII century wars. <br>Recently, it also was an easy way to cover their unability to run a sustainable tax scheme. When retirement benefits have to be paid by taxes levied on the new generation work, the question is: what did you do with the cashed taxes of the formers?<br>It is time for responsible countries to stop seeing ageing workforce as a treath but rather as a specific segment of population bringing its adavantages (possible tailored part-time work, knowledge, spending...) and costs (medical care, infrastructure). <br>Just like children do...<br>

[pattayabuggy]

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"Don't mention the war, I think I mentioned it once and got away with it".

[khaowong1]

Just change / improve / upgrade the schools and the school curriculum and employ qualified teachers and this should lead to "qualitative children". It really is that easy.

GIGO = garbage in, garbage out...:jap:

Bingo......

[khaowong1]

The very first thing required in Thailand is good every day English spoken by the academics. Prof Pramote Pras artful's use of the term "qualitative" cannot be applied to the children.

Why not use the term "well educated" or a well rounded education.

The use of the Thai script in Thailand's education system is the major drawback in provide literacy skills. The standard of English spoken and written by 95% of Thailand's teachers is appalling.

Do away with the Thai script - bring thousands of native English speaking teachers and and children into the schools.

Have at least one English TV channel

Exactly ....

BTW.. The use of the Terms "Qualitative and Quantitative"

Refer to the way Research is conducted -- That is to say

Qualitative Research or Quantitative Research.

During a scientific project an individual scientist may use quantitative research and later use qualitative research.

[Thongkorn]

It all starts with Education, Good schools and a willingness to learn, So Its back to the Government, You can have baby's but its how you teach them when they are growing up,

[Thai at Heart]

Still none the wiser about what a qualitatively superior baby would be like.

[ianwuk]

The very first thing required in Thailand is good every day English spoken by the academics. Prof Pramote Pras artful's use of the term "qualitative" cannot be applied to the children.

Why not use the term "well educated" or a well rounded education.

The use of the Thai script in Thailand's education system is the major drawback in provide literacy skills. The standard of English spoken and written by 95% of Thailand's teachers is appalling.

Do away with the Thai script - bring thousands of native English speaking teachers and and children into the schools.

Have at least one English TV channel

Exactly ....

BTW.. The use of the Terms "Qualitative and Quantitative"

Refer to the way Research is conducted -- That is to say

Qualitative Research or Quantitative Research.

During a scientific project an individual scientist may use quantitative research and later use qualitative research.

I think an English TV would be a good idea.

ianwuk

[TheBarbarian]

The army works to keep the death rate on an for the elite acceptable level.<div>So only the birthrate has to be taken care of. Well Sanan knows how to do so. Ask the local female journalists.</div><div>Problem solved.</div>

[robenroute]

and boreing?

hmmm, "ableguy"? ;-)

[TAWP]

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"Don't mention the war, I think I mentioned it once and got away with it".

"Listen, don't mention the war! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right."

[DonGato]

This guy is actually a professor?

How about government incentives to produce some "qualitative" academics then.

Well said!

...how about family environment quality?... one could be born a genus, but if the family it's a disastrous - dysfunctional reality, no one could expect any child to have access to the right education and growing -not to be a genus!-... to be a normal person!

Edited July 12, 2010 by DonGato

[HakimKlunker]

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It will be considered.

Is it allowed then to refer to US slavery, Apardheid, The East-India-Company politics, Roman and Hunn invasions, Crusades, etc?

ONLY and just in case that it serves to explain a brain-concept of course. And additionally censored to match an Admin's opinion?

[zakk9]

And you don't consider a racist post suggesting that they should encourage foreigners to live here and father children because they would be of a better quality than Thai children insulting?

Unfortunately, a very large number of Thai men run away as soon as they learn that their gf/gig or whatever is pregnant. Very many of the mothers have no other choice than sending the children to their own mother and start working in the "entertainment industry". If the grandmother can't or won't take care of the children... those are the kids you see running around in South Pattaya at three in the morning. Call it racist if you want, but it's a fact. The problem exists in western countries as well, but not to the same degree, and in those countries, at least in Europe, there are economic arrangements that protect the mother and child. No such thing here. Go to the maternity wards upcountry or near any of the tourist resorts and ask the young mothers if the bf is still around.

What foreigners can do is to support one or two children like that. The monthly cost isn't much more than a couple of bar visits. It won't solve the problem for Thailand, but it will at least help a child or two to get a mother who is there for them and hopefully some kind of education.

What rock did you crawl out from under?

How can they be 500 miles away when they are taking your money in BKK?

500 miles?

Sorry, no rocks in Bangkok, only concrete and sumps

[Igor]

What was actually said will remain a mystery unless someone can get hold of the original Thai statement.

Very true. The whole article seems poorly translated. E.g. 'qualitative rather than quantitative children' yet the remainder of the article seems to stress quantity over quality. 'Here's a tax break and more support - just have some kids, please!' The sad part is incentives will likely increase the birth rate of the poorer classes. The recent college grad trying to get her career started is unlikely to think it worthwhile to get herself knocked up for a temporary incentive. (I know a young lady who hides the fact she has a child from potential employers because she believes it lowers her chances of being hired. I don't know if it's true, but I believe it.) So, along with tax breaks and incentives, they should look at the consequences of encouraging the uneducated and welfare classes to produce more children.

But that's just my opinion. It's worth what you paid for it.

[Igor]

z21rhd, on 2010-07-12 15:21, said: "The use of the Thai script in Thailand's education system is the major drawback in provide literacy skills. The standard of English spoken and written by 95% of Thailand's teachers is appalling."

I tend to agree with you. It is very important to preserve the Thai language but every student should be required to learn an international language, too. And not just a couple years' instruction but to a fluent level. I'm not sure, considering the international climate and Thailand's geographic location, if Chinese wouldn't be a better choice than English, though.

[Globalhot]

What was actually said will remain a mystery unless someone can get hold of the original Thai statement.

Very true. The whole article seems poorly translated. E.g. 'qualitative rather than quantitative children' yet the remainder of the article seems to stress quantity over quality. 'Here's a tax break and more support - just have some kids, please!' The sad part is incentives will likely increase the birth rate of the poorer classes. The recent college grad trying to get her career started is unlikely to think it worthwhile to get herself knocked up for a temporary incentive. (I know a young lady who hides the fact she has a child from potential employers because she believes it lowers her chances of being hired. I don't know if it's true, but I believe it.) So, along with tax breaks and incentives, they should look at the consequences of encouraging the uneducated and welfare classes to produce more children.

But that's just my opinion. It's worth what you paid for it.

Good post! The article was odd because it used "qualitative" and then went on with a "quantitative" argument.

Tax breaks and incentives should be given to: 1) single people who do not have children, 2) married couples who do not have children or one only.

After one, they should be taxed..........more children, more taxes.

People should be encouraged with financial incentives to have fewer, not more children.

[HakimKlunker]

However this (original) statement is interpreted: It seems to be a Thai internal matter. I understand the term 'quality' as sort of overall usefullness in social and economic participation (sorry, I found no words to say it more complicated ) This makes sense to me and I agree that free access to knowledge to everyone (who has the mental potential) is a secure way to develop a country (Not the only one of course)

With the present situation I would be willing to participate in population increase in general, but I would not surrender the education of my offsprings to the authorities as we find them NOW.

As I am given very limited rights here - and daily am reminded of it - I have limited interest to return whatever is expected beyond my basic obligations.

(By posting my opinion I already contribute more than intended)

This may look different from a sole Thai point of view, but would then be the topic of a different forum.

We also must observe that each of these quality units are actually - - - real people! This issue deals with individual's feelings the same way as with quality (whatever that is).

[bkkjames]

What was actually said will remain a mystery unless someone can get hold of the original Thai statement.

Very true. The whole article seems poorly translated. E.g. 'qualitative rather than quantitative children' yet the remainder of the article seems to stress quantity over quality. 'Here's a tax break and more support - just have some kids, please!' The sad part is incentives will likely increase the birth rate of the poorer classes. The recent college grad trying to get her career started is unlikely to think it worthwhile to get herself knocked up for a temporary incentive. (I know a young lady who hides the fact she has a child from potential employers because she believes it lowers her chances of being hired. I don't know if it's true, but I believe it.) So, along with tax breaks and incentives, they should look at the consequences of encouraging the uneducated and welfare classes to produce more children.

But that's just my opinion. It's worth what you paid for it.

Good post!  The article was odd because it used "qualitative" and then went on with a "quantitative" argument.  

Tax breaks and incentives should be given to:  1) single people who do not have children, 2) married couples who do not have children or one only.

After one, they should be taxed..........more children, more taxes.

People should be encouraged with financial incentives to have fewer, not more children.

I think you could just tax big pharma and hospitals heavily and your population problem will take care of itself. Call it a two-for-one special. More taxes and smaller population. NWO kind of stuff. 

[sunanta]

<br>Automatic visas to couples who have a Farang father who stays with the wife and child<br><br><br>Now that is an instant way to get better quality babies and more of them<br>

<br><br>how sweet would that be......but the real deal is there trying to drive the farang daddy's out......and keep up the inbreeding there so good at...ya know, keep it in house

[sunanta]

<br>Automatic visas to couples who have a Farang father who stays with the wife and child<br><br><br>Now that is an instant way to get better quality babies and more of them<br>

<br><br>how sweet would that be......but the real deal is there trying to drive the farang daddy's out......and keep up the inbreeding there so good at...ya know, keep it in house

[TPI]

Automatic visas to couples who have a Farang father who stays with the wife and child

Now that is an instant way to get better quality babies and more of them

Ditto

Ditto

[George4]

Automatic visas to couples who have a Farang father who stays with the wife and child

Now that is an instant way to get better quality babies and more of them

Ditto

Ditto

[TPI]

<BR>And you don't consider a racist post suggesting that they should encourage foreigners to live here and father children because they would be of a better quality than Thai children insulting

/quote

Not at all....You're the one that bought up "racism", I belive he is merely suggesting that farang, generally, bring up children better in Thailand than many locals.....case in point...the "Look Kungs" on TV soaps and in the movies! Even Thai ladies are of the opinion that 50/50's have a better start in life!

Edited July 12, 2010 by TPI

[moetownblues]

Some Thai's I have spoken to do not want to have children because they have the risk of giving birth to a girl.  Life for a thai female is not good if she can not marry quickly.  (30 is old) Mothers do not want to see daughters on scrap heap or married to farang 50 yrs older than daughter. 

[bkkjames]

Some Thai's I have spoken to do not want to have children because they have the risk of giving birth to a girl.  Life for a thai female is not good if she can not marry quickly.  (30 is old) Mothers do not want to see daughters on scrap heap or married to farang 50 yrs older than daughter. 

you left out the word "poor" before farang me thinks? 

[way2muchcoffee]

Some Thai's I have spoken to do not want to have children because they have the risk of giving birth to a girl.  Life for a thai female is not good if she can not marry quickly.  (30 is old) Mothers do not want to see daughters on scrap heap or married to farang 50 yrs older than daughter. 

In my wife's area most families prefer daughters. Menfolk are often drunks and layabouts and are known to abandon their parents to old age without providing any assistance. Daughters tend to work more regularly and assist the family in times of need.