Prostitution : Is It Wrong To Pay For Sex ?

[IanForbes]

The good Padrino touches on some valid points, but only from one perspective. There are abuses in all walks of life and in all societies. It's just that the wealthier societies keep it hidden a bit better. I would blame the church (all churches including islamic) for most of the problems. They've kept a two tier system going for centuries. The wealthy always exploit the poor.

The smart gals in Thailand take a look around and ask themselves... why give it away free to Thai boyfriends who treat them like crap when they can gain a lot more for selling a needed commodity to those that are willing to pay good money for a short time of pleasure. it's a simple business transaction. A gal can hang around a bar all evening, joke with her friends, play pool, watch TV, have customers buy them drinks and generally not work too hard. Then, once in a while they can go off with the guy of THEIR choice and earn enough to pay for a normal week's wages at the 7-11.

The child sex trade industry is completely different... and evil, but you won't find it without knowing where to look, and it's NOT evident to the average person. And, it happens in every country through an underground society of evil misfits. In many cases the local police are involved on a bribery basis.

[GreenSnapper]

Oh, pleeeezzzeeeee! There are all kinds of jobs that are soul destroying. I know as I have held a number of them. Why single out prostitution as the only crappy job in the world? I have news for you. The vast majority of working people in the world did not dream of what they ended up doing when they were kids. Cry me a river.

Correct, Jingthing.

And the most crappy jobs, often deadly, are done by men.

Still all whine about the female 'victims' of prostitution. I'm quite sure, the construction workers of my neighbour appartment would love it any time to make big bucks just by sex.

But they work on 30 Baht per hour.

[Jingthing]

Men also work as prostitutes. It is not a profession restricted to women. And yes, there does exist a segment of women buyers.

[sarahsbloke]

Are you disputing Rape is a crime of abuse and power?

Yes I will, I think it is more like theft, you have something I want, but can't afford the cost, so I take it anyway without paying the price.

[Jingthing]

Rape is another matter. It is a violent crime. BTW, how do explain rape of 80 year old grannies with the theft analogy?

[sokal]

That is just not true. There is not plenty of women who want just sex.

Hope your joking Sokal, I've known many women who just want a <deleted>*k buddy with no strings or payment attached.

Thats what they convinced you.

[GuestHouse]

Oh, pleeeezzzeeeee! There are all kinds of jobs that are soul destroying. I know as I have held a number of them. Why single out prostitution as the only crappy job in the world? I have news for you. The vast majority of working people in the world did not dream of what they ended up doing when they were kids. Cry me a river.

You obviously don't understand the difference between 'exploitation' and 'objectification'.

[GuestHouse]

Are you disputing Rape is a crime of abuse and power?

Yes I will, I think it is more like theft, you have something I want, but can't afford the cost, so I take it anyway without paying the price.

And you are quite clearly discussing something you have no idea about.

But you are confirming the objectification of women - women/sex are clearly a commodity in your mind.

Have you considered talking to someone about this?

[sarahsbloke]

Are you disputing Rape is a crime of abuse and power?

Yes I will, I think it is more like theft, you have something I want, but can't afford the cost, so I take it anyway without paying the price.

And you are quite clearly discussing something you have no idea about.

But you are confirming the objectification of women - women/sex are clearly a commodity in your mind.

Have you considered talking to someone about this?

Now if you were talking about false accusations of rape being a crime of abuse and power, I would agree with you.

[Ulysses G.]

Oh, pleeeezzzeeeee! There are all kinds of jobs that are soul destroying. I know as I have held a number of them. Why single out prostitution as the only crappy job in the world? I have news for you. The vast majority of working people in the world did not dream of what they ended up doing when they were kids. Cry me a river.

You obviously don't understand the difference between 'exploitation' and 'objectification'.

Capitalism is exploitation, but in a democracy, we all have a choice on whether to take a job and need to take responsibility for our choices if our employer is truthful about what we will be doing .

[gregb]

Are you disputing Rape is a crime of abuse and power?

Yes I will, I think it is more like theft, you have something I want, but can't afford the cost, so I take it anyway without paying the price.

Rape is another matter. It is a violent crime. BTW, how do explain rape of 80 year old grannies with the theft analogy?

Rape is a very difficult crime to categorize. There are many different reasons for it. Is the 17 year old who gets accused of date rape by his girlfriend really doing so out of a sense of abuse and power? Or, is it simply because he feels he is entitled to immediate gratification and he isn't getting it?

There are definitely instances where rape may be a power play by the attacker, but there are also cases where the criminal is not out to demonstrate power over his victims or abuse them, but is simply angry and feels slighted. It isn't really power in that case so much as it is revenge.

I think trying to make such general statements about rape paints with too wide a brush. I will agree however that there is always anger involved with a rape. The question is anger over what.

And no, I don't think rape has much to do with prostitution in general, although even prostitutes do get raped from time to time. Perhaps they charged too much and made their customer angry? Maybe it could be theft in some instances.

[GreenSnapper]

Rape has a simple reason: men are deprived of sex.

This is specially true in Thailand, where lots and lots of men have too low income to be attractive to women. This also explains the high rate of good looking single women there: they just will not go with a guy of similar status.

[epicsessions]

if you are uneducated (not a skilled or trained worker), its a way to make a living. laying on your back beats working on a farm any day.

wrong or right , illegal or legal, there will always be providers as long as there are customers.

Edited July 14, 2010 by epicsessions

[geriatrickid]

Many things are illegal for a good reason. Sleeping with children, doing serious drugs, driving while drunk.

I don't believe that 'sleeping with children' is against any law in any country.

In Thailand it is quite common for entire families of 3 generations to sleep in the same bed.

Maybe that is what the Russian conductor was thinking while he was here in Pattaya?

Perhaps we should consult with Michael Jackson, deceased drug addict and expert on sleeping with children.

Living with Michael Jackson" Excerpts from the programme transcript (from ITV.com)

On Jackson's habit of sharing his bedroom with children:

Martin Bashir: "When you are talking about children we met Gavin - and it was a great privilege to meet Gavin because he's had a lot of suffering in his life - when Gavin was there he talked about the fact that he shares your bedroom?"

Jackson: "Yes."

Bashir: "Can you understand why people would worry about that?"

Jackson: "Because they are ignorant."

Bashir: "But is it really appropriate for a 44-year-old man to share a bedroom with a child that is not related to him at all?"

Jackson: "That's a beautiful thing."

Bashir: "That's not a worrying thing?"

Jackson: "Why should that be worrying, what's the criminal...who's Jack the Ripper in the room? There's some guy trying to heal a healing child ... I'm in a sleeping bag on the floor. "I gave him the bed because he has a brother named Star, so him and Star took the bed and I went along on the sleeping bag."

Bashir: "Did you ever sleep in the bed with them?"

Jackson: "No. But I have slept in a bed with many children. "I slept in a bed with all of them when Macauley Culkin was little: Kieran Culkin would sleep on this side, Macauley Culkin was on this side, his sisters in there...we all would just jam in the bed, you know. "We would wake up like dawn and go in the hot air balloon, you know, we had the footage. I have all that footage."

Bashir: "But is that right Michael?"

Jackson: "It's very right. It's very loving, that's what the world needs now, more love more heart."

Bashir: "The world needs a man who's 44 who's sleeping in a bed with children?"

Jackson: "No, you're making it - no, no you're making it all wrong ..."

Bashir: "Well, tell me, help me ..."

Jackson: "Because what's wrong with sharing a love? You don't sleep with your kids? Or some other kid who needs love who didn't have a good childhood?"

Bashir: "No, no I don't. I would never dream ..."

Jackson: "That's because you've never been where I've been mentally ..."

Bashir: "What do you think people would say if I said well - 'I've invited some of my daughter's friends round or my son's friends round and they are going to sleep in a bed with me tonight'?

Jackson: "That's fine!"

Bashir: "What do you think their parents would say?"

Jackson: "If they're wacky they would say 'You can't', but if you're close family, like your family, and you know them well and ..."

Bashir: "But Michael, I wouldn't like my children to sleep in anybody else's bed."

Jackson: "Well, I wouldn't mind if I knew the person well. I am very close to Barry Gibb - Paris and Prince can stay with him anytime; my children sleep with other people all the time.

Bashir: "And you're happy with that?"

Jackson: "Fine with it. They're honest, they are sweet people. They are not Jack the Ripper."

The most important opinion that counts when it comes for pay for play are the aprticipants. The married guys or men with kids should go and ask their spuses and kids if tis ok.

The hookers, should consult with their freiends and family. If mom and dad are cool with their 18 year old son or daughter having sex with Willie the octogenarian, then who am I to object?

Carry on.

[sokal]

Rape has a simple reason: men are deprived of sex.

This is specially true in Thailand, where lots and lots of men have too low income to be attractive to women. This also explains the high rate of good looking single women there: they just will not go with a guy of similar status.

That is totally untrue.

Men who commit rape are mentally sick.

[Ulysses G.]

The hookers, should consult with their freiends and family. If mom and dad are cool with their 18 year old son or daughter having sex with Willie the octogenarian, then who am I to object?

This would not stop many from working in the sex industry in this part of the world, but they would have to share their more of their earnings with the rest of the family.

[cardholder]

if you are uneducated (not a skilled or trained worker), its a way to make a living. laying on your back beats working on a farm any day.

wrong or right , illegal or legal, there will always be providers as long as there are customers.

And Thai ladies have been servicing the needs of the Thai male for centuries.

Don't let anyone be arrogant enough to think that Farangs were the reason for the sex industry. Apart from Pattaya (and maybe Bangkok) the girls do not need Westerners.

[geriatrickid]

The hookers, should consult with their freiends and family. If mom and dad are cool with their 18 year old son or daughter having sex with Willie the octogenarian, then who am I to object?

This would not stop many from working in the sex industry in this part of the world, but they would have to share their more of their earnings with the rest of the family.

Unfortunately, you are once again correct with your observation.

[likewise]

Don't think it's wrong to pay for sex as long as the prostitute does it out of her own free will and is not being pimped out by a pimp who controls her.

Regarding the MJ interview : Hmmm, MJ either he was a hard core pedophile who's got his whole story ready whenever asked about his behaviour with kids.

Or, was he really a kid himself that didn't see any issues in his behaviour.

I guess his family and close friends will know the truth about this.

Edited July 14, 2010 by likewise

[bonobo]

Some have come to view marriage as a pay as you lay option, which is at best tragic.

All marriages are based on the mans leverage, which is money and the womans leverage, which is sex.

That is why wealthier men have better looking wives, because these men have more money.

Its a fact

If "all" marriages are this way, then how do you explain marriages where the man doesn't work but the woman does?  Or the rich woman with the poorer man?  How many movie stars, for example, marry their hairdresser or bodyguard?

"All" people cannot be pigeon-holed into nice neat boxes just to corroborate someone's world view.

[bonobo]

Give WHAT away? Sex is never given away by women. There is always an attachment of some kind. That is the main reason why I prefer the working gals. I don't WANT an attachment later with all the tears and complaints. I've been through that far too many times

. And, I'll still say there is no one size fits all when it comes to sex. There are women who enjoy it and many who couldn't care one way or another. And others who frankly don't enjoy sex at all... despite acting like they do.

I have hesitated to post as this thread is not really Thai-related and has been on the verge of being closed (but the interest has remained high). However, Ian, I really have to disagree with you. There are plenty, and I mean plenty of women who want no commitments nor entanglements but merely an enjoyable roll in the hay.

No one size fits all is correct. And while some women certainly do use sex as the carrot for some other need of their own, and some women enjoy sex as part of bonding and a relationship, many women are just like many men. They like sex because it feels good and makes them happy.

That is just not true. There is not plenty of women who want just sex.

I am not in the habit of lying, but if you want to keep living in your misogynist fantasyland, so be it.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, so this is not intended as a flame by any means, but after reading many of your posts, I think you and I live in alternate universes.

[sokal]

Some have come to view marriage as a pay as you lay option, which is at best tragic.

All marriages are based on the mans leverage, which is money and the womans leverage, which is sex.

That is why wealthier men have better looking wives, because these men have more money.

Its a fact

If "all" marriages are this way, then how do you explain marriages where the man doesn't work but the woman does? Or the rich woman with the poorer man? How many movie stars, for example, marry their hairdresser or bodyguard?

"All" people cannot be pigeon-holed into nice neat boxes just to corroborate someone's world view.

There is rare exceptions with everything but that is all they are, rare exceptions.

Its just biology, I don't think misogyny has anything to do with it.

[bonobo]

Some have come to view marriage as a pay as you lay option, which is at best tragic.

All marriages are based on the mans leverage, which is money and the womans leverage, which is sex.

That is why wealthier men have better looking wives, because these men have more money.

Its a fact

If "all" marriages are this way, then how do you explain marriages where the man doesn't work but the woman does?  Or the rich woman with the poorer man?  How many movie stars, for example, marry their hairdresser or bodyguard?

"All" people cannot be pigeon-holed into nice neat boxes just to corroborate someone's world view.

There is rare exceptions with everything but that is all they are, rare exceptions.

Its just biology, I don't think misogyny has anything to do with it.

Even if it is "rare," than "all" cannot be used.  And it really isn't that rare.  Other than the fact that in most nations, men make more than women, it is still not uncommon for women to make the same or more than their spouses.  My ex-, for example, made about 4X my salary (I was military and she was a physician.)  And yes, she loved and needed sex continuously.  Aside from being her migraine cure, she just liked it.  Even while we were in the divorce process, she would come into my room stating "why should be deprive ourselves?"  

So what was she getting out it other than physical satisfaction?

And yes, it is simple misogyny to assume that women are somehow incapable of enjoying the same biological urges as men. 

[TAWP]

No, it is not wrong.

Not any more wrong than paying for someone to paint your walls, clean your windows, massage your back or teach you how to dance...

[sokal]

So what was she getting out it other than physical satisfaction?

And yes, it is simple misogyny to assume that women are somehow incapable of enjoying the same biological urges as men.

I did not say that women are incapable of enjoying sex. I am just saying that women know that men need sex more then they do so they use that to their advantage. And there is nothing wrong with that.

[Jingthing]

Rape is a very difficult crime to categorize. There are many different reasons for it. Is the 17 year old who gets accused of date rape by his girlfriend really doing so out of a sense of abuse and power? Or, is it simply because he feels he is entitled to immediate gratification and he isn't getting it?

Yes, I agree, but quite obviously my comments were about the most widely understood definition of rape. Stereotypically, a stranger violently assaulting the victim and forcing himself upon her/him. I have vivid memories of a girl I knew when I was a teen who had been raped, and she was traumatized about it for years. It was clear she wasn't traumatized because of a sexual experience; she was traumatized because of a violent assault.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[sarahsbloke]

Rape is a very difficult crime to categorize. There are many different reasons for it. Is the 17 year old who gets accused of date rape by his girlfriend really doing so out of a sense of abuse and power? Or, is it simply because he feels he is entitled to immediate gratification and he isn't getting it?

Yes, I agree, but quite obviously my comments were about the most widely understood definition of rape. Stereotypically, a stranger violently assaulting the victim and forcing himself upon her/him. I have vivid memories of a girl I knew when I was a teen who had been raped, and she was traumatized about it for years. It was clear she wasn't traumatized because of a sexual experience; she was traumatized because of a violent assault.

Statistically most rapes are from people the girl knows, the stranger violently assulting a random victim is fairly rare.

Totally off topic.

I wonder what if a woman was forced into choosing between 'rape' or a 'broken leg'.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't choose the 'broken leg' .... which is a very violent assult.

[bonobo]

So what was she getting out it other than physical satisfaction?

And yes, it is simple misogyny to assume that women are somehow incapable of enjoying the same biological urges as men.

I did not say that women are incapable of enjoying sex. I am just saying that women know that men need sex more then they do so they use that to their advantage. And there is nothing wrong with that.

No, but you did write that no women just want sex.  Pretty much the same thing.

Be-that-as-it-may.  As I wrote before, we live in alternate universes where the only portal is here on TV.  Yours is a much more pessimistic and angry universe than mine, as I interpret it. And I much prefer mine, thank you very much. 

And I just think it is pretty sad that you have seemingly never met a lusty woman.  I love all women, but I can really appreciate what the lusty woman can bring to the table.

I am in no way going to convince you that women are normal human beings.  So I am not going to try and am pretty much done with this train of posts.

[bonobo]

Rape is a very difficult crime to categorize. There are many different reasons for it. Is the 17 year old who gets accused of date rape by his girlfriend really doing so out of a sense of abuse and power? Or, is it simply because he feels he is entitled to immediate gratification and he isn't getting it?

Yes, I agree, but quite obviously my comments were about the most widely understood definition of rape. Stereotypically, a stranger violently assaulting the victim and forcing himself upon her/him. I have vivid memories of a girl I knew when I was a teen who had been raped, and she was traumatized about it for years. It was clear she wasn't traumatized because of a sexual experience; she was traumatized because of a violent assault.

Statistically most rapes are from people the girl knows, the stranger violently assulting a random victim is fairly rare.

Totally off topic.

I wonder what if a woman was forced into choosing between 'rape' or a 'broken leg'.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't choose the 'broken leg' .... which is a very violent assult.

Other than having been a victim in my youth, I am no expert on rape and its causes.  In such cases, i have to rely on the experts who do study the act.  And right down the line, rape is considered an act of violence and power rather than an act of sex.  

As a whole, men don't rape because they are feeling horny, according to the experts.  They rape out of anger or because they get off on the feeling of power and the ability to subject someone to their whims. 

[sarahsbloke]

<br>

<br>

<br>

<br>Rape is a very difficult crime to categorize. There are many different reasons for it. Is the 17 year old who gets accused of date rape by his girlfriend really doing so out of a sense of abuse and power? Or, is it simply because he feels he is entitled to immediate gratification and he isn't getting it?<br><br><br>

<br>Yes, I agree, but quite obviously my comments were about the most widely understood definition of rape. Stereotypically, a stranger violently assaulting the victim and forcing himself upon her/him. I have vivid memories of a girl I knew when I was a teen who had been raped, and she was traumatized about it for years. It was clear she wasn't traumatized because of a sexual experience; she was traumatized because of a violent assault.<br>

<br><br>Statistically most rapes are from people the girl knows, the stranger violently assulting a random victim is fairly rare.Totally off topic.<br>I wonder what if a woman was forced into choosing between 'rape' or a 'broken leg'.<br>I'm pretty sure I wouldn't choose the 'broken leg' .... which is a very violent assult.

Other than having been a victim in my youth, I am no expert on rape and its causes.  In such cases, i have to rely on the experts who do study the act.  And right down the line, rape is considered an act of violence and power rather than an act of sex.  As a whole, men don't rape because they are feeling horny, according to the experts.  They rape out of anger or because they get off on the feeling of power and the ability to subject someone to their whims. 

The experts are all playing to a politically correct audience .... sortof makes their conclusions suspect. Edited July 14, 2010 by sarahsbloke