Prostitution : Is It Wrong To Pay For Sex ?

[Jingthing]

Its not a matter of being PC. Normal men in normal situations simply masturbate if they are horny and don't have access to a sex partner.

There are situational abnormal environments though, like prison. There heterosexual men engage in homosexual rape, so that does illustrate that it is hard to generalize too much about rape and male sexuality.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[Loz]

everyone pays for sex. At least hookers are up front about the price.

[bonobo]

The experts are all playing to a politically correct audience .... sortof makes their conclusions suspect.

And just exactly how does violence over sexuality make it more or less PC?  

And as this has been published for years before people even started thinking about what is PC or not, I can't accept that rationalization.

[Loz]

Its not a matter of being PC. Normal men in normal situations simply masturbate if they are horny and don't have access to a sex partner.

There are situational abnormal environments though, like prison. There heterosexual men engage in homosexual rape, so that does illustrate that it is hard to generalize too much about rape and male sexuality.

Rape (particularly male on male) is very rarely a sexually motivated crime. its more about exerting power. So say most major law enforcement institutions. So I disagree with the above post. Further still, it implies that men in prison don't willingly experiment with their sexuality. I suspect that is a false assumption too. Sadly (for the purposes of this argument) I can not offer personal experience but I would be shocked to find there were no members here who couldn't.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Loz

[sarahsbloke]

The experts are all playing to a politically correct audience .... sortof makes their conclusions suspect.

And just exactly how does violence over sexuality make it more or less PC?  

And as this has been published for years before people even started thinking about what is PC or not, I can't accept that rationalization.

What act of violence against your person would you consider worse than rape?

Having both your legs broken with a baseball bat?

Being blinded?

Death?

Now my personal rating would put it somewhere between a severe beating maybe with minor bones broken (not so bad) and having major bones broken (worse)

But many of the PC brigade would have it as almost as bad if not as bad as death.

[Jingthing]

And then there are wartime rapes, rape by the victors usually of the women of the vanquished. This has happened across many cultures throughout human history. So much so that it may be called normal human behavior. So we do as a species have a very dark side.

[GreenSnapper]

As a whole, men don't rape because they are feeling horny, according to the experts.  They rape out of anger or because they get off on the feeling of power and the ability to subject someone to their whims. 

These so called "experts" still believe in feminist ideology of 1970.

Now is 2010 and time to stop fantasizing. Rape is mainly caused by depriving men of sex. And it is an illusion that masturbation can be a proper substitute of sex. If things of nature would be so easy...

Thailand has a high rape rate, because many men are not able to get a woman because of low financial status. And despite the sex industry here, they just cannot fork out 1000-2000 Baht for a shag.

The same applies for countries like India and China. Huge number of young men never able to marry or have a girlfriend. This has big impact on society, not only about rape.

[elliss]

why buy a book ,

when you can go to the libary . :jap:

[IanForbes]

Don't think it's wrong to pay for sex as long as the prostitute does it out of her own free will and is not being pimped out by a pimp who controls her.

Regarding the MJ interview : Hmmm, MJ either he was a hard core pedophile who's got his whole story ready whenever asked about his behaviour with kids.

Or, was he really a kid himself that didn't see any issues in his behaviour.

I guess his family and close friends will know the truth about this.

My guess on the Michael Jackson issue is he was a child in an adult's body. I think he stopped growing mentally about age 12 and that was his thinking process from then on. I believe he truly was mentally ill. I've had something to do with mentally ill adults when my ex wife was working with them. We often had them over to our home and it was an enlightening experience. No way could you believe they would know whatever they did would be wrong. Even though they were 20 to 25 chronologically, they were about 8 year olds mentally. I think Michael Jackson was the same. But, we will never know now.

[bonobo]

The experts are all playing to a politically correct audience .... sortof makes their conclusions suspect.

And just exactly how does violence over sexuality make it more or less PC?  

And as this has been published for years before people even started thinking about what is PC or not, I can't accept that rationalization.

What act of violence against your person would you consider worse than rape?

Having both your legs broken with a baseball bat?

Being blinded?

Death?

Now my personal rating would put it somewhere between a severe beating maybe with minor bones broken (not so bad) and having major bones broken (worse)

But many of the PC brigade would have it as almost as bad if not as bad as death.

In my opinion, and I am speaking as a rape victim myself, I don't hold rape as damaging as say, a knife in the belly.  But that is only my personal opinion.  Others feel differently.

However, I disagree that this has anything to do with the "PC" crowd.  Science has pretty well examined rape and the facets surrounding it.  And almost to a person, the researchers have determined that rape is usually a crime of violence rather than some horny guy trying to get off. There is no "PC" about it.

[IanForbes]

Rape is a very difficult crime to categorize. There are many different reasons for it. Is the 17 year old who gets accused of date rape by his girlfriend really doing so out of a sense of abuse and power? Or, is it simply because he feels he is entitled to immediate gratification and he isn't getting it?

There are definitely instances where rape may be a power play by the attacker, but there are also cases where the criminal is not out to demonstrate power over his victims or abuse them, but is simply angry and feels slighted. It isn't really power in that case so much as it is revenge.

I think trying to make such general statements about rape paints with too wide a brush. I will agree however that there is always anger involved with a rape. The question is anger over what.

And no, I don't think rape has much to do with prostitution in general, although even prostitutes do get raped from time to time. Perhaps they charged too much and made their customer angry? Maybe it could be theft in some instances.

GregB summarized rape fairly well. There are far too many reasons for rape to try categorize it as just one issue. Certainly there is a degree of anger involved in rape, but what causes the anger is an entirely different issue. I doubt if rape has anything to do with prostitution at all... even though it may happen frequently in many cases. Rape certainly doesn't have anything to do with this topic about prostitution.

[bonobo]

As a whole, men don't rape because they are feeling horny, according to the experts.  They rape out of anger or because they get off on the feeling of power and the ability to subject someone to their whims. 

These so called "experts" still believe in feminist ideology of 1970.

Now is 2010 and time to stop fantasizing. Rape is mainly caused by depriving men of sex. And it is an illusion that masturbation can be a proper substitute of sex. If things of nature would be so easy...

Thailand has a high rape rate, because many men are not able to get a woman because of low financial status. And despite the sex industry here, they just cannot fork out 1000-2000 Baht for a shag.

The same applies for countries like India and China. Huge number of young men never able to marry or have a girlfriend. This has big impact on society, not only about rape.

I think you are mistaking motivations here.  Do you really think that a Thai laborer, for example, suddenly feels horny and wants release, so he grabs the nearest women and rapes her?  Or maybe, just maybe, he feels anger at all women who don't find him acceptable, and in acting out on that anger, rapes them as punishment or to prove his superiority?

With probably millions of rapist interviewed and analyzed, with so much research on the other violence which often accompanies rape, I can't see how all those worldwide researchers are so wrong and you have it somehow right.

[sarahsbloke]

And then there are wartime rapes, rape by the victors usually of the women of the vanquished. This has happened across many cultures throughout human history. So much so that it may be called normal human behavior. So we do as a species have a very dark side.

This was part of the conquest process with a very practical use.

To assimilate a conquered people you kill the men and children then impregnate the women. It means the next generation will become your people and not a conquered people. Lions do the same thing when they take over a pride.

Edited July 14, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[GreenSnapper]

Do you really think that a Thai laborer, for example, suddenly feels horny and wants release, so he grabs the nearest women and rapes her?

Yes, that's actually the way things worked before our civilization has started. In parts of Africa without a functioning legal system, it is not unknown.

But 99% of Thai laborers would certainly not consider anything like that. But some do despite the harsh punishments, and as more men are deprived of sex, as higher the rape rate.

And regarding the "studies" of power and anger.... these are politically motivated and are basically to blame men in general. Not worth the paper they are written on. Ideology of 1970 ff.

[bonobo]

And then there are wartime rapes, rape by the victors usually of the women of the vanquished. This has happened across many cultures throughout human history. So much so that it may be called normal human behavior. So we do as a species have a very dark side.

This was part of the conquest process with a very practical use.

To assimilate a conquered people you kill the men and children then impregnate the women. It means the next generation will become your people and not a couqured people. Lions do the same thing when they take over a pride.

The "strategic" principle you write about is certainly true.  But on a personal level, back in history and today, when there is an orgy of bloodletting, rape often accompanies it.  The violence level gets so high that the perpetrators let the rampage encompass all aspects of violence, to include rape.

The Rape of Nanking was aptly named.  And some women were not physically raped though intercourse, but rather more symbolically raped using bayonets and other instruments. 

[aussiebebe]

If you look back at the original post, the OP wrote about marriage 'you pay once for a lifetime of sex' ..... No! Marriage doesn't work like that, and it's one of the main reasons for the continued existance of prostitution sadly. My view is that ideally, paying another consenting adult for sex isn't wrong, and all other circumstances involving minors, forced victims, drug/alcohol/gambling dependencies, trafficking, 3rd party profit etc is wrong. I have paid for sex and I viewed it as a necessary evil - I'd rather women slept with me for free as I'm sure they'd rather I gave them money for no reason. Logically, either senario is highly unlikely to ever happen, isn't it? Morally and ethically I felt the same, I can't 'take matters into my own hands' forever while realising that in paying, I was perpetuating cycles of misery and suffering on some levels.while releasing my own temporarily.

[Samuian]

Don't think that this is a question of morality,

it's a question of supply and demand,

where there is supply, there will be demand!

[meom]

Well there's sex and then there's good sex.

Good sex can't be bought basically so there you go.

Flame away

[GuestHouse]

Bonobo has correctly pointed out to SB that catorgorizing of rape as a crime of abuse and anger predates discussion of Political Correctness.

Perhaps SB could put forward the case as to why he disagees with the body of expert opinion that Rape is a crime of abuse/anger/power.

SB certainly does not have to cater to Political Correctness and surely has some firm grounding for taking issue with the experts on this matter.

[meom]

What act of violence against your person would you consider worse than rape?

Having both your legs broken with a baseball bat?

Being blinded?

Death?

Now my personal rating would put it somewhere between a severe beating maybe with minor bones broken (not so bad) and having major bones broken (worse)

But many of the PC brigade would have it as almost as bad if not as bad as death.

I guess the psychological aspects of rape are much worse than the physical aspects and that's why some consider it as bad as death.

Nothing to do with PC brigade.

[Loz]

Don't think that this is a question of morality,

it's a question of supply and demand,

where there is supply, there will be demand!

I'm not a noble prize winning economist but, I am pretty sure you have got that backward, mate

On a more serious note. I think Bonobo has the firmest grasp on this issue I've read in this post regarding rape. Anyone who does not agree, I would suggest has an at best tenuous grasp on the reality of psychology, criminology and academic research in this field as it is uncontested in any learned forum.

Why people post on such serious matters with nothing more than a whiff of suspicion but cling to it like it is current case law is beyond me.

Finally, I agree with Ian, that rape has NOTHING to do with the OP anyway...

Maybe this thread could be split by moderators. Or would one of them have a problem with the fact that Rape has nothing to do with Thailand and as such that whole part of this thread could be chopped. Not meaning to tread on any toes just a suggestion as the bulk of this thread is pretty off topic. And its and interesting topic.

[Ulysses G.]

Well there's sex and then there's good sex.

Good sex can't be bought basically so there you go.

Not at all true.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[sarahsbloke]

Well there's sex and then there's good sex.

Good sex can't be bought basically so there you go.

Not at all true.

I second that, the sex I had with a UK woman who married me cos she loved me was total rubbish

The sex I have with a wife I just bought (for a very small amount of money) is fantastic.

[Chunky1]

The long term consequences of engaging in prostitution are over overwhelmingly negative. I wouldn't criticize those who engage but I do think that they should face the reality of it (most in this thread don't seem to).

[Valdezugar]

In parts of Africa without a functioning legal system, it is not unknown.

I'd like to know exactly where in Africa you visited where you found this? There are a few countries with internal wars where the conquered village's surviving women would be raped, yes. You read what you said somewhere and believed it as truth?

[Chunky1]

Oh, pleeeezzzeeeee! There are all kinds of jobs that are soul destroying. I know as I have held a number of them. Why single out prostitution as the only crappy job in the world? I have news for you. The vast majority of working people in the world did not dream of what they ended up doing when they were kids. Cry me a river.

So do you think the suicide rates for McDonald employees or janitors are the same as they are for prostitutes? What about the HIV/STD rate? What about the drug/alcohol abuse rate? What about the self harm rate? Prostitution is a profession that absolutely chews women up and spits them out.

[Valdezugar]

Well there's sex and then there's good sex.

Good sex can't be bought basically so there you go.

Not at all true.

I second that, the sex I had with a UK woman who married me cos she loved me was total rubbish

The sex I have with a wife I just bought (for a very small amount of money) is fantastic.

+10 Sarahsbloke.

Maybe if the western ex knew how much they'd get when they divorce us they may bring some more fire to the cauldron? Or maybe they'd just divorce us earlier if they knew . . . .

[DMC1]

Well there's sex and then there's good sex.

Good sex can't be bought basically so there you go.

Not at all true.

I second that, the sex I had with a UK woman who married me cos she loved me was total rubbish

The sex I have with a wife I just bought (for a very small amount of money) is fantastic.

+10 Sarahsbloke.

Maybe if the western ex knew how much they'd get when they divorce us they may bring some more fire to the cauldron? Or maybe they'd just divorce us earlier if they knew . . . .

That's why swinging is such a great alternative and can spice it up a bit and it's absolutely free - loads of it going on in Thailand as well - ahem apparently!!

[mark45y]

I like to see these type of threads, I like to see the responses from board members, many of whom seem so full of morals, so pure...............

In fact if it wasn't for the said topic of this thread, I sincerely doubt a large percentage of posters would even be here.

Of course, ThaiVisa members are different, yeah right.

Honesty costs you nothing folks, the ridiculous denials are in fact just that, ridiculous.

Why is it that so many expats I know ( and I know a lot ), met their wife or GF in a bar, but ThaiVisa members seem to never do this, is there a reason ?

It's nothing to do with wealth or age, my circle are O&G Workers, highly paid guys who can afford what they want, yet 100% of the guys I work with who live in Thailand met their GF or wife in a bar or similar establishment.

I can't understand why ThaiVisa members could be so different. I don't know one single guy that met his wife at the gates of the university and I've lived in Thailand for 19 years, yet ThaiVisa members seem to have this uncanny ability to get these girls with absolutely no problem at all.

Care to share your secrets ?

Lesson one. I was living in Pattaya. There was a 7/11 across the street from my apartment. Next to the 7/11 there was a language school. The lady who owned the school asked me to tutor a lady doctor from Pattaya Memorial hospital because her tutor had quit and gone back to Farang land. It was 1000 baht for a couple of hours of talking to a good looking young doctor. The lady doctor was married but she introduced to a couple of her friends.

Lesson two. I went to have a document translated into Thai and the lady doing the translation was a teacher at the local government school. She introduced me to all the ladies at her school who were single and spoke English.

Lesson three. The lady at the bakery at Lotus is short and with a build like Dolly Parton. She speaks no English at all but really likes to eat. So you say, “By gin cow.” And she is in love.

Lesson four. The lady who dispenses ice cream cones at the KFC is easy. She is very tall though. And has a deep voice.

[Ulysses G.]

I can't understand why Thai Visa members could be so different. I don't know one single guy that met his wife at the gates of the university and I've lived in Thailand for 19 years, yet Thai Visa members seem to have this uncanny ability to get these girls with absolutely no problem at all.

They all seem to be wealthy, silky white beauty queens who have a PhD in Nuclear Physics from Harvard University. It is no surprise that the typical quality of posts on Thai Visa is so amazingly high.