Islamic Terrorists Kill 3 More In Thailand

[Tornado]

Terrorist, terrorism and the like are the new "war words' that the USA has held onto to gain support in their murderous occupation. The majority of the world do not support it, now looking at latest polls, the majority of the US citizens dont support it.

The founding fathers of the US were terrorists in the context of the meaning as was Captian Cook when he killed some of the indigenous people of Australia, Hawaii etc.

It shows how far the world has come, since the start of man kind, hasnt got much better at all has it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

History may very well tell a different story. If things fall just right for the US, and over time Afghanistan, and especially Iraq are finally turned around and become productive members of the democratized world it may be hard to find anyone from the US who says they did not support the US efforts.

Things look bad now and sorry to say most people tend to “band wagon” for what they feel will be the winning side. I am not calling any of you wagon jumpers only indicating what I feel is part of the reason for the poll numbers in the US.

Was the war justified? Many opinions on this, the answer to which is not likely to change the current situation.

Is the current US presence justified? Does the world really want the US to pack its bags and go home now? I think not. It may be a mess right now, but think how much worse it would be if we picked up our marbles and went home. Does the EU, the UN have the troops, money, staff, to handle the situation if the US pulls out?

IMHO the Middle East is where it is because of western actions during the middle of this century – US but mostly European actions. Now may be a chance to improve the situation, and I do not think the US pulling out will improve the situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like that post, you seem definately open to nice banter.

The UN was against the US going in, as was the majority of EU members - I personally do not know how all of this will turn out as it has gone so far. I dont think the onus should be put on the UN or EU as they did not support this in the first place.

One thing I feel Im correct in is that is a bloody mess and no one is winning there at the moment, nor there ever will be a "winner", as the US should of done a bit more learning about a culture/religion before they went in with guns blazing.

Religions against religions is what it comes down to now and history has proven that there is no real winners in that.

[Boon Mee]

Terrorist, terrorism and the like are the new "war words' that the USA has held onto to gain support in their murderous occupation. The majority of the world do not support it, now looking at latest polls, the majority of the US citizens dont support it.

The founding fathers of the US were terrorists in the context of the meaning as was Captian Cook when he killed some of the indigenous people of Australia, Hawaii etc.

It shows how far the world has come, since the start of man kind, hasnt got much better at all has it?

History may very well tell a different story. If things fall just right for the US, and over time Afghanistan, and especially Iraq are finally turned around and become productive members of the democratized world it may be hard to find anyone from the US who says they did not support the US efforts.

Things look bad now and sorry to say most people tend to “band wagon” for what they feel will be the winning side. I am not calling any of you wagon jumpers only indicating what I feel is part of the reason for the poll numbers in the US.

Was the war justified? Many opinions on this, the answer to which is not likely to change the current situation.

Is the current US presence justified? Does the world really want the US to pack its bags and go home now? I think not. It may be a mess right now, but think how much worse it would be if we picked up our marbles and went home. Does the EU, the UN have the troops, money, staff, to handle the situation if the US pulls out?

IMHO the Middle East is where it is because of western actions during the middle of this century – US but mostly European actions. Now may be a chance to improve the situation, and I do not think the US pulling out will improve the situation.

I like that post, you seem definately open to nice banter.

The UN was against the US going in, as was the majority of EU members - I personally do not know how all of this will turn out as it has gone so far. I dont think the onus should be put on the UN or EU as they did not support this in the first place.

One thing I feel Im correct in is that is a bloody mess and no one is winning there at the moment, nor there ever will be a "winner", as the US should of done a bit more learning about a culture/religion before they went in with guns blazing.

Religions against religions is what it comes down to now and history has proven that there is no real winners in that.

The UN is a do-nothing organization that didn't want the US to go into Bosnia either but we sorted that one out. Give this one a little more time. After all, look how long it took Europe & Japan to get back on their feet after WW2.

[chownah]

The US fought communism in Vietnam with bullets and blood....and they lost. After they lost, the rhetoric died down and this gave the Vietnamese people the opportunity to reflect on where there society was going instead of focusing only on survival. After a few years of playing with the communist idea and seeing it fail miserably the Vietnamese gov't started changing and many of the things that the US was killing people over have come to pass by Vietnam's own initiative. I'm not saying that the Vietnamese gov't is perfect or anything like that....but I am saying that it is much better, and more democratic than any of the dictators the US supported during the war effort.

I see the same thing happening in regards to the Muslim world. Once again the US goes straight for the guns and starts shooting from the hip. Killing tens of thousands of Vietnamese didn't solve the Vietnamese 'problem' and I don't see why people in the US are so stupid to think that killing tens of thousands of Muslims will achieve any better results. In my opinion the only way for this problem to get sorted out is for the US to leave and let those people over there decide for themselves what they want their society to become. When the US does leave there will be lots of bad things happen especially at first...but lets face it there are alot of bad things happening there because the US is there. Anyway...after the US leaves and a few years pass the people will have the opportunity to reflect on what they want their society to become...and people being people they will start to improve their conditions.

For the US there is another problem other than Muslim extremists....it is the problem that the US gov't has used this opportunity to reduce freedom, gov't accountability, and respect for human rights both in the US and overseas...but this is another discussion.

[Tornado]

Terrorist, terrorism and the like are the new "war words' that the USA has held onto to gain support in their murderous occupation. The majority of the world do not support it, now looking at latest polls, the majority of the US citizens dont support it.

The founding fathers of the US were terrorists in the context of the meaning as was Captian Cook when he killed some of the indigenous people of Australia, Hawaii etc.

It shows how far the world has come, since the start of man kind, hasnt got much better at all has it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

History may very well tell a different story. If things fall just right for the US, and over time Afghanistan, and especially Iraq are finally turned around and become productive members of the democratized world it may be hard to find anyone from the US who says they did not support the US efforts.

Things look bad now and sorry to say most people tend to “band wagon” for what they feel will be the winning side. I am not calling any of you wagon jumpers only indicating what I feel is part of the reason for the poll numbers in the US.

Was the war justified? Many opinions on this, the answer to which is not likely to change the current situation.

Is the current US presence justified? Does the world really want the US to pack its bags and go home now? I think not. It may be a mess right now, but think how much worse it would be if we picked up our marbles and went home. Does the EU, the UN have the troops, money, staff, to handle the situation if the US pulls out?

IMHO the Middle East is where it is because of western actions during the middle of this century – US but mostly European actions. Now may be a chance to improve the situation, and I do not think the US pulling out will improve the situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like that post, you seem definately open to nice banter.

The UN was against the US going in, as was the majority of EU members - I personally do not know how all of this will turn out as it has gone so far. I dont think the onus should be put on the UN or EU as they did not support this in the first place.

One thing I feel Im correct in is that is a bloody mess and no one is winning there at the moment, nor there ever will be a "winner", as the US should of done a bit more learning about a culture/religion before they went in with guns blazing.

Religions against religions is what it comes down to now and history has proven that there is no real winners in that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The UN is a do-nothing organization that didn't want the US to go into Bosnia either but we sorted that one out. Give this one a little more time. After all, look how long it took Europe & Japan to get back on their feet after WW2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree to some extent. resolution after resoultion, but nothing comes of anything.

[ozzydom]

Terrorist, terrorism and the like are the new "war words' that the USA has held onto to gain support in their murderous occupation. The majority of the world do not support it, now looking at latest polls, the majority of the US citizens dont support it.

The founding fathers of the US were terrorists in the context of the meaning as was Captian Cook when he killed some of the indigenous people of Australia, Hawaii etc.

It shows how far the world has come, since the start of man kind, hasnt got much better at all has it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

History may very well tell a different story. If things fall just right for the US, and over time Afghanistan, and especially Iraq are finally turned around and become productive members of the democratized world it may be hard to find anyone from the US who says they did not support the US efforts.

Things look bad now and sorry to say most people tend to “band wagon” for what they feel will be the winning side. I am not calling any of you wagon jumpers only indicating what I feel is part of the reason for the poll numbers in the US.

Was the war justified? Many opinions on this, the answer to which is not likely to change the current situation.

Is the current US presence justified? Does the world really want the US to pack its bags and go home now? I think not. It may be a mess right now, but think how much worse it would be if we picked up our marbles and went home. Does the EU, the UN have the troops, money, staff, to handle the situation if the US pulls out?

IMHO the Middle East is where it is because of western actions during the middle of this century – US but mostly European actions. Now may be a chance to improve the situation, and I do not think the US pulling out will improve the situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like that post, you seem definately open to nice banter.

The UN was against the US going in, as was the majority of EU members - I personally do not know how all of this will turn out as it has gone so far. I dont think the onus should be put on the UN or EU as they did not support this in the first place.

One thing I feel Im correct in is that is a bloody mess and no one is winning there at the moment, nor there ever will be a "winner", as the US should of done a bit more learning about a culture/religion before they went in with guns blazing.

Religions against religions is what it comes down to now and history has proven that there is no real winners in that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The UN is a do-nothing organization that didn't want the US to go into Bosnia either but we sorted that one out. Give this one a little more time. After all, look how long it took Europe & Japan to get back on their feet after WW2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like you "sorted" Vietnam ??

[Boon Mee]

Terrorist, terrorism and the like are the new "war words' that the USA has held onto to gain support in their murderous occupation. The majority of the world do not support it, now looking at latest polls, the majority of the US citizens dont support it.

The founding fathers of the US were terrorists in the context of the meaning as was Captian Cook when he killed some of the indigenous people of Australia, Hawaii etc.

It shows how far the world has come, since the start of man kind, hasnt got much better at all has it?

History may very well tell a different story. If things fall just right for the US, and over time Afghanistan, and especially Iraq are finally turned around and become productive members of the democratized world it may be hard to find anyone from the US who says they did not support the US efforts.

Things look bad now and sorry to say most people tend to “band wagon” for what they feel will be the winning side. I am not calling any of you wagon jumpers only indicating what I feel is part of the reason for the poll numbers in the US.

Was the war justified? Many opinions on this, the answer to which is not likely to change the current situation.

Is the current US presence justified? Does the world really want the US to pack its bags and go home now? I think not. It may be a mess right now, but think how much worse it would be if we picked up our marbles and went home. Does the EU, the UN have the troops, money, staff, to handle the situation if the US pulls out?

IMHO the Middle East is where it is because of western actions during the middle of this century – US but mostly European actions. Now may be a chance to improve the situation, and I do not think the US pulling out will improve the situation.

I like that post, you seem definately open to nice banter.

The UN was against the US going in, as was the majority of EU members - I personally do not know how all of this will turn out as it has gone so far. I dont think the onus should be put on the UN or EU as they did not support this in the first place.

One thing I feel Im correct in is that is a bloody mess and no one is winning there at the moment, nor there ever will be a "winner", as the US should of done a bit more learning about a culture/religion before they went in with guns blazing.

Religions against religions is what it comes down to now and history has proven that there is no real winners in that.

The UN is a do-nothing organization that didn't want the US to go into Bosnia either but we sorted that one out. Give this one a little more time. After all, look how long it took Europe & Japan to get back on their feet after WW2.

Like you "sorted" Vietnam ??

Nope.

Like we sorted Japan & Europe.

[TokyoT]

I will be back in Thailand next month and would be happy to sit down with any/all parties interesting in discussing US/Iraq, US/Vietnam, US/German/Japan, or even general UN issues.

In what may be a futile attempt to bring this thread back on topic I offer the following fodder:

Thailand finds themselves in a rather unique position. Many Asian countries/cultures are very group based/oriented. There is a lot of pressure to conform and be part of the group as opposed to individualism. So I think the difference in views/religion in the south becomes a very difficult issue for them to deal with. It requires one to accept the differences of the other party and this is not something a group culture is accustom to dealing with.

[dereklev]

Would you class the US as terrorists? as they have tortured, used violence and physically intimidated to achieve ones political ends.. 

We're not going there here.

Get a new nick and come over to the Pit (George & dr. pp don't have a problem w/me mentioning that site here I hope) and we can explore this further!

answer the question!

I would certainly not classify Americans as terrorists - what a foolish thought! In establishing Democracy in Afganistan, Iraq and the rest of the middle east to follow, the US is pursuing the only rational, objective, pragmatic course there is. And OZ - your country of birth, is our strongest supporter.

So get with the program!

Enough said here - rest in the Pit!

Beg to differ here.....

I think you will find that (Vice President) Tony Blair has firmly placed the United Kingdom at the forefront of President George W's battle to free the world! !

[The_Doctor]

What a very interesting and public debate.

Tornado, I have to say I thoroughly agree with pretty much everything you are writing here - it's good to read a well written and coherent version. Cheers!

It's a shame that others don't agree, but then that is whats causing the problems.

But, what has the US, 9/11 and the subsequent invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq got to do with the problems in the south? Not a lot, except that it's clear that one religion is being singled out and oppressed - in the same way the Jews were singled out and oppressed in Nazi germany. This time the 'west' approves of the persecution, or at least can't prevent it, so WWIII hasn't kicked off in the Middle East. "Terrorism" and the pursuit of "Democracy" are just marketing terms to sell propaganda to the populace.

The sooner one culture stops imposing their belief system on another the better.

[ace]

Yes, congrats on some well reasoned and argued opinions on a subject that too often falls into name-calling and racism.

Muslims do need to get their house in order, but in this case, I largely agree with Tornado. I think you'll find more Muslims have been killed than non-muslims. Also the history of the 4 southern provinces is similar to that of, for example, Eire in UK. The problem in the south of Thailand has more to do with the government than the muslims. At first I though it was just regular corruption and incompetence, but I am starting to think that it is policy. Not just here but in central asian republics such as Uzbekistan too. Anyone who's familiar with 1984 will know the theory and implications.

[haha]

something that most people forgot to mention...

the number of people that were killed by the communist during the last century was to say the least unbelievable.

and you wonder why the usa, and other western countries intervened?

do you remember the killing fields where the communist killed over 2 million people so that they could start from scratch?

in the past, the communist believed that the only way to reach their goal was to kill all who opposed their belief. and mind you, they did this with no remorse.

check out the following website. and note that the usa is not on it.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

[Oleg_Rus]

something that most people forgot to mention...

the number of people that were killed by the communist during the last century was to say the least unbelievable.

do you remember the killing fields where the communist killed over 2 million people so that they could start from scratch?

in the past, the communist believed that the only way to reach their goal was to kill all who opposed their belief.  and mind you, they did this with no remorse.

check out the following website.  and note that the usa is not on it.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This site is full of cr*p. No well-known sources, no reliable data - shortly B*S*. please don't refer to it.

2Tornado - I agree with every word. Keep on.

9/11 - who did it, really ? You don't think bunch of dumb guys could pilot two Boeings so smoothly almost at the same time ?

[PeaceBlondie]

No religion - not Christianity in Europe and the Americas, Judaism in Palestine and Israel and Gaza, Islam in various countries, Buddhism in Thailand - can ever justify warfare or violent insurgency or terrorism, or violent response to the same, anywhere.

Before we throw out words like "Islamic" or "Muslim" we either need to have been a practicing Muslim for ten years, or hold earned master's degrees in Islamic studies, Thai histories, AND Peace & Non-Violence. Even 30 years of permanent residence in Central and Northern Thailand probably wouldn't teach a farang from Judeo-Christian/Euro-american background half what they need to know.

We do not know that the uprising in the former Malaysian territories has anything to do with any verse in the Koran. More likely, political leaders on both sides are throwing words around. I understand that all use of violence is against Buddhist theology.

Let the Thai Buddhist who is without sin cast the first stone. Let the non-Thais say - all together now, fellow farangs ' "Mai Kojai, we do not know, we are ignorant fools."

[Kringle]

Still the point is the muslims have to take care of their own house and that is NOT being done anywhere around the world. These radicals or whatever you want to call these fVckwits are killing innocent people in the name of islam. Just way too crazy for me and still say the muslims THEMSELVES need to do something or it's just going to get worse. What's wrong with you people. I'm tired of the BS and me myself if I caught any of these fvckwits, I would wrap them in pig and chop their heads off.

America has gotten too easy to let everyone in to the country and I'm pretty sure if you ask ANY Brit and a lot of European people, they would say the same thing. Don't like the country you are in (no matter which one,US,Britain, France or European or Scandinavian country ), then get the &lt;deleted&gt; out. They come into your country and then exspect you to live by THEIR frickin ideals. Pull all these marches and demonstrations saying how bad we are but ask the little twit if he wants to go back to his OWN frickin country. I would be willing to bet, he would say HE11 NO.

Edited July 1, 2005 by Kringle

[Nam Kao]

The next liberal that tries to tell me Islam is peaceful.....

[haha]

something that most people forgot to mention...

the number of people that were killed by the communist during the last century was to say the least unbelievable.

do you remember the killing fields where the communist killed over 2 million people so that they could start from scratch?

in the past, the communist believed that the only way to reach their goal was to kill all who opposed their belief.  and mind you, they did this with no remorse.

check out the following website.  and note that the usa is not on it.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This site is full of cr*p. No well-known sources, no reliable data - shortly B*S*. please don't refer to it.

2Tornado - I agree with every word. Keep on.

9/11 - who did it, really ? You don't think bunch of dumb guys could pilot two Boeings so smoothly almost at the same time ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you sound like terrorists to me.

[Boon Mee]

We're getting off topic here again but one last word on I-rak - folks forget that from 1979 to 2003 hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were killed by Saddam Hussein and his government. Estimates, almost unbelievably, swing from a few hundred thousand to millions. U.S. government reports are the highest, and reports summarized by Middle East news agencies are the lowest.

[Thomas_Merton]

We're getting off topic here again but one last word on I-rak ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please, don't be so modest. Why not be honest - any excuse for the old red, white and blue propaganda, eh?

No criticism of your politics, but does your world view contain solutions to Thailand's problems? A couple of hundred words on that subject might be more welcome on this forum.

A little story, might amuse you:

The British in India (1930's) solved their problem of Muslim terrorist suicide bombings by burying the body of the Muslim terrorist in pig skin.

Although a *shahid* goes to Heaven, a *shahid* whose body touches a pig carcass or skin doesn't.

The British simply publicized the burying of one such terrorist in a pig carcass and the large spate of suicide bombings ceased immediately.

[Boon Mee]

We're getting off topic here again but one last word on I-rak ...

Please, don't be so modest. Why not be honest - any excuse for the old red, white and blue propaganda, eh?

No criticism of your politics, but does your world view contain solutions to Thailand's problems? A couple of hundred words on that subject might be more welcome on this forum.

A little story, might amuse you:

The British in India (1930's) solved their problem of Muslim terrorist suicide bombings by burying the body of the Muslim terrorist in pig skin.

Although a *shahid* goes to Heaven, a *shahid* whose body touches a pig carcass or skin doesn't.

The British simply publicized the burying of one such terrorist in a pig carcass and the large spate of suicide bombings ceased immediately.

And, if you recall what started the Indian Mutiny and the Bloody Well at Crawnpore was the Indian soldiers were supposedly given cartrigdes wrapped in pig fat...

Edited July 1, 2005 by Boon Mee

[meom]

The British simply publicized the burying of one such terrorist in a pig carcass and the large spate of suicide bombings ceased immediately.

Good idea Thomas although with modern explosives available these days there's usually not much left to bury

[Thomas_Merton]

We're getting off topic here again but one last word on I-rak ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please, don't be so modest. Why not be honest - any excuse for the old red, white and blue propaganda, eh?

No criticism of your politics, but does your world view contain solutions to Thailand's problems? A couple of hundred words on that subject might be more welcome on this forum.

A little story, might amuse you:

The British in India (1930's) solved their problem of Muslim terrorist suicide bombings by burying the body of the Muslim terrorist in pig skin.

Although a *shahid* goes to Heaven, a *shahid* whose body touches a pig carcass or skin doesn't.

The British simply publicized the burying of one such terrorist in a pig carcass and the large spate of suicide bombings ceased immediately.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And, if you recall what started the Indian Mutiny and the Bloody Well at Crawnpore was the Indian soldiers were supposedly given cartrigdes wrapped in pig fat...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A mere rumour.

Although I doubt it will stop the appeasers on the other side from alleging US/UK weapons are vacuum wrapped to preserve the rich flavour of their deep frying in prime pig lubricant, and are therefore further humiliating the children killers, grandma rapists, POW murderers, evil fascists, Jew haters of the opposition who are bent on sacrificing their own family’s and lands men’s lives so that a few can have hegemony over the vast majority of innocent Iraqis – and eventually the whole of the Middle East and its oil supplies. Anyone who remembers the oil crisis of post 1973, knows this means controlling the rest of the world.

[Boon Mee]

We're getting off topic here again but one last word on I-rak ...

A couple of hundred words on that subject might be more welcome on this forum.

Unfortunately I don't have a couple hundred words to add at this juncture but the 'freedom fighters' and 'self defense' argument just doesn't stand up. If the muslims were truly oppressed, as some folks say, one would think that they would lash out and fight the actual oppressors. But that's not what's happening is it?

The 'freedom fighters' are murdering defenseless Buddhist civilians like teachers and monks. Hard to believe they're oppressing anybody.

[NaiGreg]

Oh my goodness! This terrible situation in the South does get people [TV members] so excited they are apt say some ridiculous things. And now the word "terrorism" is used interchangeably with rebellion/insugency?

I don't know how to solve the problem in the South but perhaps I can help Mr. Tornado (and others) with the concept of terrorism as it has existed for millennia.

Consider this ... I am terrified of tornados, but tornados are not terrorists.

On the other hand, I am not terrified of the insurgents in the South, but [some] of them are employing terrorist tactics, as they [tactics] have existed for millennia ... targeting the weak and the innocent for slaughter.

I, for one, deplore all violence but terrorism is especially heinous. I suspect that one of the reasons that it survives is because it is somewhat effective in an awful way.

[Boon Mee]

Here's some good history on the origin of the problems in the south:

The political, ethnic, and religious evolution of peninsular Thailand is very complex. The original people were the Negrito, or Orang Asli, who are still present in the remote jungles along the Thai-Malaysian border. The Melayu themselves seem to have settled from Sumatra ad the Riau Archipelago at a fairly early date. Chinese and Indian merchants and settlers had been coming from very ancient times (a fair amount of the region's early history can be pieced together from Indian and Chinese accounts--some of which go back to the early Christian era).

While Europe was in the High Middle Ages and the Ottomans still struggling with the Byzantines, the Thai peoples worked their way out of the lands between Guangxi in China and the Golden Triangle by "peasant conquest"--people who can't get a decent living move out of their home valley to find an uncultivated patch of jungle in the next one. This was possible in a sparsely populated region. This way, Thai -muang- (something like tropical city-states) were present in the Malay Peninsula by the 13th century--although they lived near Mon, Khmer, Melayu, Orang Asli, and other peoples. At that time, the land was subject to the Cambodians, whose capital was then at Angkor Thom rather than Phnom Penh.

The Thai muang, including some in the Peninsula, coalesced into the kingdom of Sukothai, then into the Ayyutthaya kingdom, which sacked Angkor Thom in 1435.

At this time, the Melayu were also Buddhist (sometimes Hindu), although merchants and sufis from India and the Arab world had started to introduce Islam.

In the 16th century, the Melayu sultans adopted Islam--although the common people retained a syncretic religion (something like a lot of rural Java even today). Since the kings of Ayyuthaya were the greatest power, they Melayu sultans paid tribute to them (in those days, when the land was sparsely settled, if there was a labor shortage in your kingdom, you raided someone who didn't already pay you tribute to get a few farmhands and artisans, so a bit of gold every years kept the men on elephantback away). In time, Islam (mixed with some Hindu syncretic elements)came to be associated with the use of the Malay language; Theravada Buddhism with the use of Thai--although in Satun, many Muslims habitually spoke Thai.

Generally, the writ of the Thai kings stopped somewhere to the north of Malacca. In the 19th century, the British detached Kedah, Trengganu, and a couple other Melayu sultanates from Thailand, and joined them to Johore, Malacca, and a few others to form the Federated Malay States. Patthani, Satun, and a couple others remained subject to Siam (then under the Chakkri dynasty, which has ruled Siam/Thailand ever since the Burmese burned Ayyutthaya in the 1760's).

Melayu separatism did not become an issue in Thailand until well into the 20th century, when the idea of ethnic nationalism was introduced from Europe. Also, in the mid 20th-century, Communist guerrillas from Malaysia (most ethnic Chinese) sponsored discontent in southern Thailand after Thailand adopted a pro-West "neutrality", followed by open anti-Communism during the 1950's and 1960's. One legacy of this anti-Communist cooperation is official Malaysia's reluctance to support or foster Thai Muslim separatism. Another has been a tradition of generous policies to the small (but present)Thai Buddhist minority in the northernmost states of Malaysia; and Thailand's traditional generosity towards its Muslims.

Link

[jackr]

Would you class the US as terrorists? as they have tortured, used violence and physically intimidated to achieve ones political ends.. 

Kind of an interesting question coming from someone with US war planes as an Avatar?

The Tornado was a British, Italian, German venture many eons ago.

[TokyoT]

Would you class the US as terrorists? as they have tortured, used violence and physically intimidated to achieve ones political ends.. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kind of an interesting question coming from someone with US war planes as an Avatar?

The Tornado was a British, Italian, German venture many eons ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

His nickname is Tornado, but his avatar shows Tomcats. Tomcats are US war birds.

[Boon Mee]

[Tyree D.]

I reported this thread and tried to get it closed. It has gone too many directions. From anti-Muslim, to anti-american to pro-saddam to anti-saddam and I'm sure there is some Black propoganda that I missed.

[Kerryd]

On the last thread that dealt with the problems in the south (after the most recent beheadings), I noted that ever since the Prime Minister publicly spoke about taking a softer approach to those problems, the violence seems to have increased.

By using a "softer" approach, many people are taking that as license to commit more violence. They see the "softer" approach as a sign of weakness.

If you have the opportunity, read the Koran (or Qu'ran) one day (if you can find a copy in your native language). Read it with an open mind. Take note of the grammar, the various passages that repeat themselves over and over again, and especially take note of what is promised to the true believers (I haven't seen any mention of a flock of virgins for who ever dies in Allah's name). Remember where and when (and by who) this book was written.

Note that in accordance with Islamic tradition, the Koran must be taught in it's original Arabic, regardless of where you are from. In many, many cases, this means that the only one who actually knows what is written it in, is the person preaching it. There is a very large portion of the Muslim population that are illiterate in Arabic. They only know what their Imam (cleric) tells them. An immigration officer I know here can speak 3 local languages/dialects, but can't read or write.

In the Koran, you are not supposed to kill "friendly" Muslims. If you do, you must free a slave and pay compensation to the family. If you kill an "unfriendly" Muslim, you are only required to free a slave. There is no penalty for killing non-Muslims.

As I mentioned in the other thread, the troubles down south are not going to go away. Even if you gave them everything they could possibly want, the troubles would continue. Once they are established, they will seek to spread their way of thinking to their neighbours, using the same methods they are currently using.

The definition of a "True Believer" in Islam, is left up to each individual to decide. In other words, if you do not follow me, and believe in Allah the same way I do, you are an infidel, and I can righfully kill you. That is why so many of these people have no hesitation in killing other Muslims. It's all about power.

I've been in this country (Afghanistan) almost 2 years now. I've met many devout, happy Muslims. They are happy and smiling, not because things are more peaceful now, and the country is slowly rebuilding, but because we have the upper hand (in military terms).

If the situation changed, and another Taliban-like group started gaining power, those same happy, devout people would slit your throat in a second.

Islam is attempting to do now, through religion and war/terror, what communism failed to do through politics and war/terror.

[Boon Mee]

On the last thread that dealt with the problems in the south (after the most recent beheadings), I noted that ever since the Prime Minister publicly spoke about taking a softer approach to those problems, the violence seems to have increased.

By using a "softer" approach, many people are taking that as license to commit more violence. They see the "softer" approach as a sign of weakness.

If you have the opportunity, read the Koran (or Qu'ran) one day (if you can find a copy in your native language). Read it with an open mind. Take note of the grammar, the various passages that repeat themselves over and over again, and especially take note of what is promised to the true believers (I haven't seen any mention of a flock of virgins for who ever dies in Allah's name). Remember where and when (and by who) this book was written.

Note that in accordance with Islamic tradition, the Koran must be taught in it's original Arabic, regardless of where you are from. In many, many cases, this means that the only one who actually knows what is written it in, is the person preaching it. There is a very large portion of the Muslim population that are illiterate in Arabic. They only know what their Imam (cleric) tells them. An immigration officer I know here can speak 3 local languages/dialects, but can't read or write.

In the Koran, you are not supposed to kill "friendly" Muslims. If you do, you must free a slave and pay compensation to the family. If you kill an "unfriendly" Muslim, you are only required to free a slave. There is no penalty for killing non-Muslims.

As I mentioned in the other thread, the troubles down south are not going to go away. Even if you gave them everything they could possibly want, the troubles would continue. Once they are established, they will seek to spread their way of thinking to their neighbours, using the same methods they are currently using.

The definition of a "True Believer" in Islam, is left up to each individual to decide. In other words, if you do not follow me, and believe in Allah the same way I do, you are an infidel, and I can righfully kill you. That is why so many of these people have no hesitation in killing other Muslims. It's all about power.

I've been in this country (Afghanistan) almost 2 years now. I've met many devout, happy Muslims. They are happy and smiling, not because things are more peaceful now, and the country is slowly rebuilding, but because we have the upper hand (in military terms).

If the situation changed, and another Taliban-like group started gaining power, those same happy, devout people would slit your throat in a second.

Islam is attempting to do now, through religion and war/terror, what communism failed to do through politics and war/terror.

Excellent, Kerry.

Perhaps those folks who still don't have a notion of the 'hard-core' aspect to Islam will think about your post...