Phuket Lawyers Also Estate Agents?

[phuketlen]

Hello, I have been here for awhile now and I am now considering to buy property here. I have plenty of recommendations for lawyers and estate agents but one of the lawyers seems to be an estate agent too if you look at the attached, far right hand side just under the property broker "Indigo". In my home this is not possible, there are rules against this, but my question is whether there are here or not or if it is allowed or common and I just must be aware of that and be on guard?

[phuketlen]

Hello again, did not get that attachment there, here it is, also page 171 of the Phuket Gazette 2010 phone book. Cheers!

[phuketlen]

Hello again, did not get that attachment there, here it is, also page 171 of the Phuket Gazette 2010 phone book. Cheers!

Property Broker_Int'l Law Office.pdf

[evanson]

Never never never use the 'estate agent' to do due diligence on a property. They are the ones who are going to make a whopping commission on a sale. Christ. I'm constantly amazed at the utter srupidity of some of the people who come here.

Edited July 19, 2010 by evanson

[xylophone]

Phuketlen, use a good lawyer, preferably one recommended by someone who has used them, and a separate estate agent, as evanson is right in what he says.

I also know of incidences where real estate agents were telling prospective buyers clear untruths about the status of a farang when buying property here, so god knows how they were getting the legal side done if the lawyer wasn't in their pocket!!

I have used an excellent lawyer here in Patong for two house purchases and one sale, but it's a bit far out for you as I recall.

[phuketlen]

Phuketlen, use a good lawyer, preferably one recommended by someone who has used them, and a separate estate agent, as evanson is right in what he says.

I also know of incidences where real estate agents were telling prospective buyers clear untruths about the status of a farang when buying property here, so god knows how they were getting the legal side done if the lawyer wasn't in their pocket!!

I have used an excellent lawyer here in Patong for two house purchases and one sale, but it's a bit far out for you as I recall.

Thanks all, but my question was whether it is common for lawyers here to be also acting as estate agents:huh: like the one, "Int'l Law Office" listed in the Phuket Gazette Guide that I uploaded earlier. That seems like very big contradiction to me, how do you know if you lawyer is selling you something they are also getting a commission to sell?...would they then be truthful with you about the legals concerning that property? Is the way to check this any registration officially or controls? It does not seem like a truly international law firm could get away with this as many countries have strict rules against this.

[LivinLOS]

I think its pretty common that everyone is an estate agent.. I get pushed property by everyone from massage girls to the senior staff at my bank "Oh very good deal for you, only go up, why you not buy"..

[thaiwanderer]

Well as far as I can see they don't even have any offices outside of Phuket let alone in any other country?

I can't see that they are explicitly estate agents as well but if that's what it says somewhere and you are ill at ease with that then I think you've answered your own concerns.

Speaking generally I imagine you may be more comfortable dealing with a firm that doesn'topenly have a potential conflict as you see it (although the reverse might be true if chinese walls are involved - i doubt it generally in Phuket).

However even where no direct kickback even if hidden its a small island and many aren't keen to rock boats.

I suspect the answer in this case (although not always the sole crierium with any lawyer) might be to dig a little deeper in your pockets for at least the illusion of the service you want.

Edited July 20, 2010 by thaiwanderer

[phuketlen]

Well as far as I can see they don't even have any offices outside of Phuket let alone in any other country?

I can't see that they are explicitly estate agents as well but if that's what it says somewhere and you are ill at ease with that then I think you've answered your own concerns.

Speaking generally I imagine you may be more comfortable dealing with a firm that doesn'topenly have a potential conflict as you see it (although the reverse might be true if chinese walls are involved - i doubt it generally in Phuket).

However even where no direct kickback even if hidden its a small island and many aren't keen to rock boats.

I suspect the answer in this case (although not always the sole crierium with any lawyer) might be to dig a little deeper in your pockets for at least the illusion of the service you want.

Big thanks again to all for your comments, very helpful and having a think.

I am being "stirred" to this International Law Office, so there is the problem I have. Should I refuse them as my soliciters for this purchase since they are clearly also estate agents??

[petercallen]

Big thanks again to all for your comments, very helpful and having a think.

I am being "stirred" to this International Law Office, so there is the problem I have. Should I refuse them as my soliciters for this purchase since they are clearly also estate agents??

A law firm should not be able to represent both the seller and the buyer its called conflict of interest.

Probably does not apply here though.

[psdetective]

http://www.limcharoen.com/

Limcharoen and Hughes

This is a national Law Firm. Little bit expensive but you get good quality for your money. They are a well established firm with many laywers from many nationalities.

They have offices in Samui Bangkok and Phuket as far as i know

good luck

[paulfromphuket]

Thanks all, but my question was whether it is common for lawyers here to be also acting as estate agents:huh: like the one, "Int'l Law Office" listed in the Phuket Gazette Guide that I uploaded earlier. That seems like very big contradiction to me, how do you know if you lawyer is selling you something they are also getting a commission to sell?...would they then be truthful with you about the legals concerning that property? Is the way to check this any registration officially or controls? It does not seem like a truly international law firm could get away with this as many countries have strict rules against this.

It is a clear conflict of interests and should be avoided USE an indepentant lawyer and listen to them. It would never be allowed in the west regardless of what your girlfriend says!

[phuketlen]

http://www.limcharoen.com/

Limcharoen and Hughes

This is a national Law Firm. Little bit expensive but you get good quality for your money. They are a well established firm with many laywers from many nationalities.

They have offices in Samui Bangkok and Phuket as far as i know

good luck

Thanks ps, cost is okay if the lawyer is worth it but I happen to know personally that that firm represents buyers and seller companies that are in conflict in the same deal, not something reputable soliciters do, so I will have to pass on them. Will definately pass then on this international law office too and guess will look to Bangkok a lawyer even if more expensive.

[phuketlen]

http://www.limcharoen.com/

Limcharoen and Hughes

This is a national Law Firm. Little bit expensive but you get good quality for your money. They are a well established firm with many laywers from many nationalities.

They have offices in Samui Bangkok and Phuket as far as i know

good luck

Thanks ps, cost is okay if the lawyer is worth it but I happen to know personally that that firm represents buyers and seller companies that are in conflict in the same deal, not something reputable soliciters do, so I will have to pass on them. Will definately pass then on this international law office too and guess will look to Bangkok a lawyer even if more expensive.

also how do we know if this Licheron is not a property seller for commission too like the International law office?? No, I think Phuket is too suspect for solicitors,

[Bluedan]

I worked as a lawyer here for more than a year. Unfortunatley it seems that conflicts of interest are common. Law firms are often closely connected with or depend upon real estate companies and developers for their referals. Regardless of the firm, at a first interview, I would ask hard questions pertaining to any such relationships, repeat their answers and take notes in their full view.

[thaiwanderer]

Lawyers can and frequently do openly and perfectly legally and properly act on both sides of property transactions in many countries outside of Thailand.

Protections from abuse vary but mixing it with estate agency business heightens the potential for conflict.

In relation to Phuket the same protections aren't available and even if any connection or favouritsim to a developer or seller is explicity denied - its a small island.

However at the very least assistance of a local lawyer (whether local 'international' or local thai) will in part be needed to enable an accurate due dilligence and depending on your intended structure greasing the right wheels.

Given the OP's distaste at certain local practices can we assume he/she is looking at buying only in a 100% straight way?

[Bluedan]

Lawyers can and frequently do openly and perfectly legally and properly act on both sides of property transactions in many countries outside of Thailand.

...The key here is disclosure of any potential conflict.

[evanson]

Lawyers can and frequently do openly and perfectly legally and properly act on both sides of property transactions in many countries outside of Thailand.

Protections from abuse vary but mixing it with estate agency business heightens the potential for conflict.

In relation to Phuket the same protections aren't available and even if any connection or favouritsim to a developer or seller is explicity denied - its a small island.

However at the very least assistance of a local lawyer (whether local 'international' or local thai) will in part be needed to enable an accurate due dilligence and depending on your intended structure greasing the right wheels.

Given the OP's distaste at certain local practices can we assume he/she is looking at buying only in a 100% straight way?

1. Where? Burma? Afghanistan? Chile?

2. dam_n straight:huh:

3. And they WILL get you in the end. dKTD.

4. 'At the very least ???

5. And don't give a flying fck about the ongoing dispoilation of the island also?

6. I didn't perceive any 'distaste' of 'certain local practices'. aka scammers /aka liyinging/cheating/ thieving and preying on the disingenuous. My understanding was that the OP's thick. And even thicker if hoping to secure a deal with just the one company representing both parties. You a 'real estate agent' are you?

Edited July 24, 2010 by evanson

[phuketlen]

Lawyers can and frequently do openly and perfectly legally and properly act on both sides of property transactions in many countries outside of Thailand.

Protections from abuse vary but mixing it with estate agency business heightens the potential for conflict.

In relation to Phuket the same protections aren't available and even if any connection or favouritsim to a developer or seller is explicity denied - its a small island.

However at the very least assistance of a local lawyer (whether local 'international' or local thai) will in part be needed to enable an accurate due dilligence and depending on your intended structure greasing the right wheels.

Given the OP's distaste at certain local practices can we assume he/she is looking at buying only in a 100% straight way?

1. Where? Burma? Afghanistan? Chile?

2. dam_n straight:huh:

3. And they WILL get you in the end. dKTD.

4. 'At the very least ???

5. And don't give a flying fck about the ongoing dispoilation of the island also?

6. I didn't perceive any 'distaste' of 'certain local practices'. aka scammers /aka liyinging/cheating/ thieving and preying on the disingenuous. My understanding was that the OP's thick. And even thicker if hoping to secure a deal with just the one company representing both parties. You a 'real estate agent' are you?

Thanks evanson for your kind comments regarding me. But I do agree now with most of your sentiments.

So, to summarize, this so called "INTERNATIONAL" LAW OFFICE" is also actually an estate agent and not a "real" lawyers firm...at least as not as used where the word comes from in back in England?

[Bluedan]

Lawyers can and frequently do openly and perfectly legally and properly act on both sides of property transactions in many countries outside of Thailand.

Protections from abuse vary but mixing it with estate agency business heightens the potential for conflict.

In relation to Phuket the same protections aren't available and even if any connection or favouritsim to a developer or seller is explicity denied - its a small island.

However at the very least assistance of a local lawyer (whether local 'international' or local thai) will in part be needed to enable an accurate due dilligence and depending on your intended structure greasing the right wheels.

Given the OP's distaste at certain local practices can we assume he/she is looking at buying only in a 100% straight way?

1. Where? Burma? Afghanistan? Chile?

2. dam_n straight:huh:

3. And they WILL get you in the end. dKTD.

4. 'At the very least ???

5. And don't give a flying fck about the ongoing dispoilation of the island also?

6. I didn't perceive any 'distaste' of 'certain local practices'. aka scammers /aka liyinging/cheating/ thieving and preying on the disingenuous. My understanding was that the OP's thick. And even thicker if hoping to secure a deal with just the one company representing both parties. You a 'real estate agent' are you?

Thanks evanson for your kind comments regarding me. But I do agree now with most of your sentiments.

So, to summarize, this so called "INTERNATIONAL" LAW OFFICE" is also actually an estate agent and not a "real" lawyers firm...at least as not as used where the word comes from in back in England?

Some of the rudeness on forums never ceases to amaze me. Nothing wrong with your question IMO. What is obvious to some is not obvious to all.

Regarding the Law Firms here, most of the international lawyers are ligitimate lawyers in their own country but do not have a licence to practice here and are therefore labelled as "consultants". There are usually licenced Thai lawyers in the firm who deal with Thai documents and Thai officials. I was called a "property specialist" ...as you may know with many laws here there is a sneaky way around it. The fact that they may have a conflict of interest does not mean that they are not a proper law firm, but a conflict of interest is a major concern when doing a commercial transaction. You need a lawyer who will independently scrutinize the deal on the table and do so fearlessly, to the point that they are prepared to recommend that you do go through with it if it does not meet with your interests. As I said before you have to ask questions as the conflict may not be as obvious as it is in this case.

[thaiwanderer]

other countries? okay one example of many - England. However as can be gleaned from my posts on this topic I'm not at all suggesting that makes it okay here.

That the OP even needs to ask suggests fingers are going to burnt along the way.

My last comment queried whether the OP was going to try and secure his/her investment in an illegal way in which case criticising the dirty hands of others is a bit rich.

Not sure what your query is regarding 'at the very least' (or generally why you have such an attitude?)

And no I'm not a real estate agent or similar.

As to spoiling the island can we assume you were born in Phuket and your family have farmed the land for generations?

[phuketlen]

Some of the rudeness on forums never ceases to amaze me. Nothing wrong with your question IMO. What is obvious to some is not obvious to all.

Regarding the Law Firms here, most of the international lawyers are ligitimate lawyers in their own country but do not have a licence to practice here and are therefore labelled as "consultants". There are usually licenced Thai lawyers in the firm who deal with Thai documents and Thai officials. I was called a "property specialist" ...as you may know with many laws here there is a sneaky way around it. The fact that they may have a conflict of interest does not mean that they are not a proper law firm, but a conflict of interest is a major concern when doing a commercial transaction. You need a lawyer who will independently scrutinize the deal on the table and do so fearlessly, to the point that they are prepared to recommend that you do go through with it if it does not meet with your interests. As I said before you have to ask questions as the conflict may not be as obvious as it is in this case.

thank you very much, very helpful. does anyone know if the head of this international law office/property broker is a lawyer, anywhere? he acts like it but then I am told he is not...well I do not know what to think now.

[Bluedan]

Just ask him...if he doesnt want to answer vote with your feet!

[Valentine]

Some of the rudeness on forums never ceases to amaze me. Nothing wrong with your question IMO. What is obvious to some is not obvious to all.

Regarding the Law Firms here, most of the international lawyers are ligitimate lawyers in their own country but do not have a licence to practice here and are therefore labelled as "consultants". There are usually licenced Thai lawyers in the firm who deal with Thai documents and Thai officials. I was called a "property specialist" ...as you may know with many laws here there is a sneaky way around it. The fact that they may have a conflict of interest does not mean that they are not a proper law firm, but a conflict of interest is a major concern when doing a commercial transaction. You need a lawyer who will independently scrutinize the deal on the table and do so fearlessly, to the point that they are prepared to recommend that you do go through with it if it does not meet with your interests. As I said before you have to ask questions as the conflict may not be as obvious as it is in this case.

thank you very much, very helpful. does anyone know if the head of this international law office/property broker is a lawyer, anywhere? he acts like it but then I am told he is not...well I do not know what to think now.

I believe if you ask him he will tell you quite candidly what his exact situation is. If it is the same guy I am thinking of he has stated it in public before.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Valentine