Cleaning Fish Tanks

[mellow1]

How often do you clean your fish tanks? Lately our water exchange rates have increased. Instead of being able to go 4 or 5 days between water changes, we are now down to 3 days. If we go longer, the fish (Pla Duk) become lethargic, and then start to die. We have started drying out some of the tanks, and will be cleaning them with a water and formalin solution. Do you have the same problem? and how do you deal with it?

[RedBullHorn]

As my concrete tanks are for holding purposes only during earthern ponds clearing while waiting for wholesalers to come and collect, water change are daily basis. My tanks are equip with floater (cut off valve), i build them isolated at a corner with zine cover attach to walls so fishes have no access to play with the floater.

So after i drain my tanks...(outlet pvc pipe is 3'', water drain in 2 min, most villagers here have copy and replace their 3/4'' outlet pipe, they're frustrated over the waste of time) water go in and i can just walk away assured that water will cut off when floater hit the desire water level, no need to supervise, and if water level drop, water top up automatically...I call it the Lazy Man Technique... Villgers are copying it

[mellow1]

As my concrete tanks are for holding purposes only during earthern ponds clearing while waiting for wholesalers to come and collect, water change are daily basis. My tanks are equip with floater (cut off valve), i build them isolated at a corner with zine cover attach to walls so fishes have no access to play with the floater.

So after i drain my tanks...(outlet pvc pipe is 3'', water drain in 2 min, most villagers here have copy and replace their 3/4'' outlet pipe, they're frustrated over the waste of time) water go in and i can just walk away assured that water will cut off when floater hit the desire water level, no need to supervise, and if water level drop, water top up automatically...I call it the Lazy Man Technique... Villgers are copying it

You've got a great system RBH, with lots of ponds, but we don't have the land, and can mostly just do concrete tanks.

[RedBullHorn]

Mellow you're doing great with your concrete tanks ! likewise, we make do with what ever resouces we have...

Edited July 19, 2010 by RedBullHorn

[mellow1]

^ Thanks, yes we are coming along.

[Pacificperson]

A water blaster works well on concrete tanks.

[RedBullHorn]

yes, power washer works well...what mellow means is changing water without really cleaning the tank as the fishes are still in it.

[Pacificperson]

When I saw that he said "We have started drying out some of the tanks, and will be cleaning them with a water and formalin solution." I assumed that he meant empty tanks.

Edited July 22, 2010 by Pacificperson

[RedBullHorn]

my mistake, i apologise...i skipped that part...Oh Blind Me !...

[mellow1]

When I saw that he said "We have started drying out some of the tanks, and will be cleaning them with a water and formalin solution." I assumed that he meant empty tanks.

That is correct. We have been needing to do water changes about every 3 day, because the fish will stop eating, and we will then be getting some die offs. Before we could go 4 or 5 days. We believe the tanks have some bad bacteria.

Two third of the fish have been moved out, to some big tanks that we have. I wanted to wait on this because the shade roof (that green plastic material) hasn't been completed yet. The fish are doing very well though, out in the open like that. It looks as though, the shade is more beneficial for the person working the tanks, then the fish.

[RedBullHorn]

Wet season is the most dangerous period to raise fishes, water are saturated with virus, bad bacterias and chemical wash off from nature landscape. Before my fishes arrive, ponds water fill and closed off from the water source for a month and then chlorine treated, which gas off in couples of days. New fishes are fed anti-bac and vitamin C for 5-7 days

[mellow1]

^ Chlorine treated? How's that work RBH? We use well water. We are disinfecting the tanks after using them for several months. We think that we have some bad bacteria in them, and by cleaning them out, it will prolong our water changes back to 4 or 5 days. We have to change every 3 days now. Please enlighten me about the use of chlorine in this process.

[RedBullHorn]

The chlorine i use are in powder form, i think similar to those use for swimming pools...comes in a 50 lits white container cost about 3'000 THB, expensive but it's a necessity for my 1st month "earthen ponds" raring periond, once my ponds are filled, water inlet are closed off from the water supply souce for a month or till the end of my #1 pellet feed...i share the cost with my group of catfishes farmers. If memory serve right, it's about >15 ppm/m3 or literally an ink drop into a 200 lits pvc barrel of water...you'll get the picture.

The experiment i've tried with concrete tanks....fill water into tank to desire level (mine about 3 m3), add 1 teaspoon flat of chlorine powder, stir, if its sunny- gas off in1 day, if not then 2 days max. Release my fingerlings into the tank, after that then i throw in the salt (not before ! Because chlorine have the tendency to attach itself to salt among other things so i can't throw in the salt along during the chlorine process too ). Anti-bac, vitamin C are mix in feed for 5-7 days.

After about 12-15 days and after water change, salt and 150ml of EM are apply (90 THB/ liter bottle...use to be my secret but now i think i'll share them course i'm far ahead already in this business)...then it down to 7 days then 5 days period doing water change and still applying salt and EM...take note that some air borne bad bacterias are shower down when it rain.

Edited July 30, 2010 by RedBullHorn

[Pacificperson]

What do you mean by "EM"?

[RedBullHorn]

EM is the abbreviation for Effective Micro-Organisms.

EM has been shown to boost the immune systems of fish. (fish farming)

http://en.wikipedia....e_microorganism

This brand is available in Thailand, i'm using the white bottle with the green dots type.

http://emrojapan.com...oducts/em1.html

.

Edited July 31, 2010 by RedBullHorn

[Pacificperson]

Thanks for the information. Its a brand of aquatic probiotic. I assume that you are happy with it. If it is effective, it should help Mellow1 stretch-out his water change interval.

[mellow1]

The chlorine i use are in powder form, i think similar to those use for swimming pools...comes in a 50 lits white container cost about 3'000 THB, expensive but it's a necessity for my 1st month "earthen ponds" raring periond, once my ponds are filled, water inlet are closed off from the water supply souce for a month or till the end of my #1 pellet feed...i share the cost with my group of catfishes farmers. If memory serve right, it's about >15 ppm/m3 or literally an ink drop into a 200 lits pvc barrel of water...you'll get the picture.

The experiment i've tried with concrete tanks....fill water into tank to desire level (mine about 3 m3), add 1 teaspoon flat of chlorine powder, stir, if its sunny- gas off in1 day, if not then 2 days max. Release my fingerlings into the tank, after that then i throw in the salt (not before ! Because chlorine have the tendency to attach itself to salt among other things so i can't throw in the salt along during the chlorine process too ). Anti-bac, vitamin C are mix in feed for 5-7 days.

After about 12-15 days and after water change, salt and 150ml of EM are apply (90 THB/ liter bottle...use to be my secret but now i think i'll share them course i'm far ahead already in this business)...then it down to 7 days then 5 days period doing water change and still applying salt and EM...take note that some air borne bad bacterias are shower down when it rain.

I'm not quite sure of what this small amount of chlorine is suppose to do. Maybe you can explain it better.

We use a powder, recommended by the man we buy our feed from, which we mix with water and spray the number 1 feed, and use it for 7 days. It's all in Thai, so can't tell you what it is, but its an orange powder.

The woman who sell's us the fingerlings uses EM. She has a barrel in which she put in a bunch of dead fingerlings, a gallon of EM and then fills it with water. She then lets it sit for 15 days, after which she adds it to her tanks to prolong the water change cycles. We have likewise made this evil brew, but I'm not sure if it should be used when first putting in clean water into the tanks, or at a later time when the water starts to go bad.

[mellow1]

Thanks for the information. Its a brand of aquatic probiotic. I assume that you are happy with it. If it is effective, it should help Mellow1 stretch-out his water change interval.

Right now we are going 4-5 days between water changes on our bigger tanks. 2Mx3M

[RedBullHorn]

The chlorine i use are in powder form, i think similar to those use for swimming pools...comes in a 50 lits white container cost about 3'000 THB, expensive but it's a necessity for my 1st month "earthen ponds" raring periond, once my ponds are filled, water inlet are closed off from the water supply souce for a month or till the end of my #1 pellet feed...i share the cost with my group of catfishes farmers. If memory serve right, it's about >15 ppm/m3 or literally an ink drop into a 200 lits pvc barrel of water...you'll get the picture.

The experiment i've tried with concrete tanks....fill water into tank to desire level (mine about 3 m3), add 1 teaspoon flat of chlorine powder, stir, if its sunny- gas off in1 day, if not then 2 days max. Release my fingerlings into the tank, after that then i throw in the salt (not before ! Because chlorine have the tendency to attach itself to salt among other things so i can't throw in the salt along during the chlorine process too ). Anti-bac, vitamin C are mix in feed for 5-7 days.

After about 12-15 days and after water change, salt and 150ml of EM are apply (90 THB/ liter bottle...use to be my secret but now i think i'll share them course i'm far ahead already in this business)...then it down to 7 days then 5 days period doing water change and still applying salt and EM...take note that some air borne bad bacterias are shower down when it rain.

I'm not quite sure of what this small amount of chlorine is suppose to do. Maybe you can explain it better.

We use a powder, recommended by the man we buy our feed from, which we mix with water and spray the number 1 feed, and use it for 7 days. It's all in Thai, so can't tell you what it is, but its an orange powder.

The woman who sell's us the fingerlings uses EM. She has a barrel in which she put in a bunch of dead fingerlings, a gallon of EM and then fills it with water. She then lets it sit for 15 days, after which she adds it to her tanks to prolong the water change cycles. We have likewise made this evil brew, but I'm not sure if it should be used when first putting in clean water into the tanks, or at a later time when the water starts to go bad.

EM

Unlike salt you could add in now and then, it is recommended that EM be use at the begining of a new water change...can be added later too as you please but not economically wise...

EM can boost immune system of fishes but if it is 5 days interval for that volume of fishes in a tank for a water change...don't wait any longer to do it, just have self-discipline with the practice.

Chlorine

Purification and disinfection Chlorine is an important chemical for water purification (such as water treatment plants), in disinfectants, and in bleach. Chlorine in water is more than three times more effective as a disinfectant against Escherichia coli than an equivalent concentration of bromine, and is more than six times more effective than an equivalent concentration of iodine.

Chlorine is usually used (in the form of hypochlorous acid) to kill bacteria and other microbes in drinking water supplies and public swimming pools. In most private swimming pools chlorine itself is not used, but rather sodium hypochlorite, formed from chlorine and sodium hydroxide, or solid tablets of chlorinated isocyanurates. Even small water supplies are now routinely chlorinated.

It is often impractical to store and use poisonous chlorine gas for water treatment, so alternative methods of adding chlorine are used. These include hypochlorite solutions, which gradually release chlorine into the water, and compounds like sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione (dihydrate or anhydrous), sometimes referred to as "dichlor", and trichloro-s-triazinetrione, sometimes referred to as "trichlor". These compounds are stable while solid and may be used in powdered, granular, or tablet form. When added in small amounts to pool water or industrial water systems, the chlorine atoms hydrolyze from the rest of the molecule forming hypochlorous acid (HOCl) which acts as a general biocide killing germs, micro-organisms, algae, and so on.

Disclaimer

(Less than) >15ppm/m3 is sufficient...more that that, you (might) kill the fishes.

Always test and experiment in small volume, if result is positive, run the test again to comfirm result before proceeding to actual usage.

What is written by me are the experiances of my own doing and i hold no responsiblities to attain to result/result obtain by other people...

Short and simple.

[RedBullHorn]

I'm not quite sure of what this small amount of chlorine is suppose to do. Maybe you can explain it better.

We use a powder, recommended by the man we buy our feed from, which we mix with water and spray the number 1 feed, and use it for 7 days. It's all in Thai, so can't tell you what it is, but its an orange powder.

The woman who sell's us the fingerlings uses EM. She has a barrel in which she put in a bunch of dead fingerlings, a gallon of EM and then fills it with water. She then lets it sit for 15 days, after which she adds it to her tanks to prolong the water change cycles. We have likewise made this evil brew, but I'm not sure if it should be used when first putting in clean water into the tanks, or at a later time when the water starts to go bad.

What the lady and you are doing are secondary EM process call EM-A...to multiply the original EM-1 bacterias to second level, i do that to my earthen ponds by mixing 1 lit of EM-1,10 lits of molasses and

50 lits of water, 3rd level strength are weaker and last shorter in storage.

For concrete tanks concept, advisable to use original strength EM-1 straight from the bottle when first release of fingerling to tanks, 2nd level strength can be apply after the first water change and onwards for economical reasons.

Edited August 2, 2010 by RedBullHorn

[mellow1]

Thank you once again RBH. You have been a great help to us.

[aitch52]

Once again full of gratitude with the knowledge sharing RBH and Mellow, we have had our water supply cut of for 11 weeks now. Our suply is filtered river water, the river has been dry so no oggin for our small hamlet. We have made no water changes in all that time, the fish at the moment are still healthy even the water is just beginning to smell on the high side. We just have one tank on the go with 1750 Lahd Schia, hte other tank was harvested about 6 weeks ago. As I am away during the week this is my wifes project, I would love to be more involved but absence does not allow that.

Once again thanks, when I left home the water level in the river was just beginning to rise so with luck we should have our supply restored soon, (Yes we have paid the bill!). It's been tough without running water, we have managed with a couple of the large and one medium concrete bowl shaped tanks which the water company come and fill once a week, so showering outside, it makes washing up a chore and all the humping around of pails of water is a pain.

Point taken about the wet season being the danger period for fish farming, stands to reason with all the run off and harmful bacteria on the loose.

Cheers all.

[RedBullHorn]

...

[RedBullHorn]

EM-A - Activated EM

(

http://www.emsustains.co.uk/EM-A.htm

)

EM is sold as EM-1, which is EM in its dormant state and which has a shelf life of 12 months if the bottle is unopened. However, because the EM is dormant it will require both food and warmth before it reaches its full potential it is therefore recommended that it is activated before using - this is also he most cost effective method.

Making EM-A is done by mixing EM-1 with sugar cane syrup (molasses),

not

sugar beet syrup and water and allowing them to ferment in a sealed vessel (ensure a one way valve is present, so that the CO2 produced during the fermentation can escape) for 7 days at @ 30deg centigrade. Mix at the ratio 5% EM-1:5% molasses:90% water. Do not use a metallic heating element in the fermenter - a thermostatically controlled fish tank heater is ideal.

Practical tips for making EM-A

• A good fermentation process leads to white yeast flakes on the surface of the EM-Active. These flakes are harmless and do not affect the product or its use.
• EM-Active has a shelf life of 4 weeks. The sweet and sour smell is a good indicator of perishability. If the EM has a rotten smell then it is no longer suitable for use.
• EM preparations are best kept in plastic bottles or containers. Do not keep in glass or metal containers (because of the formation of gas)
• It is important to use good quality water to make EM preparations. Rain water, spring water or filtered water is better than mains water that contains chlorine. The effectivity of EM is slightly reduced by the presence of chlorine and other chemicals. Water that has been treated with EM ceramics is ideal.
• The bacteriological activity of EM-A is reduced at temperatures lower than 6 °C. The micro-organisms are not dead, just lying dormant and are reactivated again when the temperature increases.
• Spraying, atomising or scattering of EM preparations should be done with a diluted solution of 1:100. This is best carried out in the morning or evening or during wet weather.
• If applying EM-A outside, don't do so in strong sunlight as this is detrimental to photosynthetic bacteria in EM.

[mellow1]

Once again full of gratitude with the knowledge sharing RBH and Mellow, we have had our water supply cut of for 11 weeks now. Our suply is filtered river water, the river has been dry so no oggin for our small hamlet. We have made no water changes in all that time, the fish at the moment are still healthy even the water is just beginning to smell on the high side. We just have one tank on the go with 1750 Lahd Schia, hte other tank was harvested about 6 weeks ago. As I am away during the week this is my wifes project, I would love to be more involved but absence does not allow that.

Once again thanks, when I left home the water level in the river was just beginning to rise so with luck we should have our supply restored soon, (Yes we have paid the bill!). It's been tough without running water, we have managed with a couple of the large and one medium concrete bowl shaped tanks which the water company come and fill once a week, so showering outside, it makes washing up a chore and all the humping around of pails of water is a pain.

Point taken about the wet season being the danger period for fish farming, stands to reason with all the run off and harmful bacteria on the loose.

Cheers all.

Sorry to hear about your water problem. Is it possible to dig a well there? Sure would like to talk to your wife on how she kept those fish alive. Well, we are getting some rain now, and life will be easier for all.

[mellow1]

EM-A - Activated EM

(

http://www.emsustains.co.uk/EM-A.htm

)

EM is sold as EM-1, which is EM in its dormant state and which has a shelf life of 12 months if the bottle is unopened. However, because the EM is dormant it will require both food and warmth before it reaches its full potential it is therefore recommended that it is activated before using - this is also he most cost effective method.

Making EM-A is done by mixing EM-1 with sugar cane syrup (molasses),

not

sugar beet syrup and water and allowing them to ferment in a sealed vessel (ensure a one way valve is present, so that the CO2 produced during the fermentation can escape) for 7 days at @ 30deg centigrade. Mix at the ratio 5% EM-1:5% molasses:90% water. Do not use a metallic heating element in the fermenter - a thermostatically controlled fish tank heater is ideal.

Practical tips for making EM-A

• A good fermentation process leads to white yeast flakes on the surface of the EM-Active. These flakes are harmless and do not affect the product or its use.
• EM-Active has a shelf life of 4 weeks. The sweet and sour smell is a good indicator of perishability. If the EM has a rotten smell then it is no longer suitable for use.
• EM preparations are best kept in plastic bottles or containers. Do not keep in glass or metal containers (because of the formation of gas)
• It is important to use good quality water to make EM preparations. Rain water, spring water or filtered water is better than mains water that contains chlorine. The effectivity of EM is slightly reduced by the presence of chlorine and other chemicals. Water that has been treated with EM ceramics is ideal.
• The bacteriological activity of EM-A is reduced at temperatures lower than 6 °C. The micro-organisms are not dead, just lying dormant and are reactivated again when the temperature increases.
• Spraying, atomising or scattering of EM preparations should be done with a diluted solution of 1:100. This is best carried out in the morning or evening or during wet weather.
• If applying EM-A outside, don't do so in strong sunlight as this is detrimental to photosynthetic bacteria in EM.

Thanks again for more great info RBH.

[mellow1]

It seems that the wife is only using second level EM. We just stated using it this week. RBH stated that he uses EM at 150ml/3M3. Our big tanks are 6 M3, so the wife is suppose to put 300ml/tank upon a water change. We change the water when the fish start hanging around the surface. Wish aitch52 would have more input here, on their experience on this. I will report back on the results of how it prolongs the need to change water.

We have sold out this first batch, but should have a few thousand ready by the end of the month. We mounted 2 small pumps on 2 of the tanks, to circulate water (40L/M), to stimulate growth in the smaller fish, which will follow, in order not to interrupt sales. This seems to be working.

[aitch52]

Hi Mellow and RBH

Sorry to have been so tardy M but we have been working flat out at the school in readiness for a competition in Chiang Mai last week end from 00 sparrow fart to late at night. Glad it's over. Our experiences, we have 2 tanks 8m3, Plah Duk 1st and 2nd cycle and Lahd Schia 3rd, Plah Duk were a disappointment, sold about half of the 1st cycle at 300 grams, combined the remaining undersized fish with the 2nd cycle to grow on, estimated 2700 fish in the tank, harvested them and sold them at farm gate and roadside for 45 Baht / kilo. Remaining undersized fish were cleaned and sun dried and sold at 80 baht / kilo. The boss sad she could get 60 Baht at market, but that was a pipe dream. As we harvested the 2nd cycle the drought hit full on and our water supply was cut. We are now in our twelfth week without running water and the Lahd Schia have not had a water change in all that time. Prior to losing the water supply we were doing an 80% water change every 4 - 5 days and a few handfuls of rocksalt slung in with a couple of handfuls of Poon Kaeow occasionally.

They do however seem to be thriving at the moment and are going for harvest this weekend/ next week. We started with 1750 so considering they are cannibalistic we have no idea how many are in the tank, but at feeding time about two thirds of the surface of the tank is covered with writhing fish doing their pirhana impression. Despite the fact that the water has a mildly unpleasant odour, we tried a couple of them at the weekend and they are delicious, firm fleshed and fat.

I don't have much involvement with the project as I am away working during the week. Ours is a small relatively new operation, we do have space for several more tanks, I have no illusions about getting rich with this little project, just enough to cover the household bills and a couple of 20 kilo sacks of rice a month over the operating costs will do me just fine. I have never heard of EM before but will take time to study up on it thanks again for all the info.

Cheers

Aitch

[aitch52]

[

Sorry to hear about your water problem. Is it possible to dig a well there? Sure would like to talk to your wife on how she kept those fish alive. Well, we are getting some rain now, and life will be easier for all.

Thanks Mellow, I am also amazed that she has kept the fish alive, the only direct action she has taken is to reduce feeding to once a day and also reduced the amount given. Indirect action is to visit the Wat and pray, pray and pray some more lol. There is a definite odour coming from the tank now, detectable at about ten metres, not overly unpleasant but not nice either.

Will let you know how it all turns out.

[RedBullHorn]

I pray for 7 months since last December...

Edited August 5, 2010 by RedBullHorn