Literacy Of 30,000 Thai Third Graders Substandard

[chainarong]

This gets rolled out every now and then, plus other bits and pieces of educational education, like four weeks back (if that long)x amount of students couldnt read Thai,this has been going on over the past twenty plus years , stop yakking about it and do something about it.

[indyuk]

Most third graders any were are not reading and writing very well.

Yes indeed. It is also the case that the Thai language is hard to learn and hard to teach.

Our children need their teachers to be retrained so that they can teach Thai well.

You would be amazed at how many Thai teachers struggle to explain Thai language basics.

e.g.Such as the '8 Rule'. My first Thai teacher had to be dismissed because she had barely

understandable diction in her own Thai language.

Note: It takes a Child three years plus to learn basic Thai, yet only one year to learn basic English.

What is the difference; The teaching preparation and of course the Teacher.

[geriatrickid]

You see....substandard literacy doesn't mean a thing.

Really? I don't think you make a valid point. You neglect to mention that the people you cite achieved their success in countries that allowed for opportunity. Everything in Thailand is predicated on having a piece of paper first. One cannot get a job as a bank teller without a university diploma.

Albert Einstein was a graduate of Zurich's polytechnic, Rockefeller graduated cum laude from Ivy League Dartmouth, Jefferson was in a different era where skillsets were different and Churchill received the benefits of an advanced military service education etc. etc. There is no comparison or relationship between the achievements of the aforementioned people and illiterate 3rd graders in Thailand. I can assure you that all of the westerners you cite were not illiterate in their equivalent point in time with the Thai 3rd graders. The reality is that the Thai educational system has not evolved. It is still run much as it was 50 years ago. The world has changed, but Thailand's education system has not kept up with the changes. It is as simple as that.

Edited July 29, 2010 by geriatrickid

[elkangorito]

The reality is that the Thai educational system has not evolved. It is still run much as it was 50 years ago. The world has changed, but Thailand's education system has not kept up with the changes. It is as simple as that.

Why has nothing much changed in a long time?

The answer is one word...Culture!!

[Hardie]

The entire Thai educational system is EXTREMELY substandard, and the sooner it's dealt with and no longer denied, the sooner it will improve, and things like democracy can flourish, and women can have more job choices besides the 'entertainment industry'...

[way2muchcoffee]

Lots of complaining about the Thai education system. It is true that there is definite room for improvement, but no matter how good the education system is, the kids will reap little benefit from it without proper parenting. Education starts at home.

I am appalled at the parenting I see going on around me. Some will point to the different value systems as the cause and will defend the style of parenting. That is fine. They make valid points. But it is precisely these value systems that cause the education system fail, no matter how good the teacher.

For kids to succeed in school they need to start young. They need discipline. They need motivation. They need to do their homework. They need to study. These things need to be enforced in the home by the parents. Most parents simply are not doing their job of providing a household in which education is properly valued and nurtured. The results are clear.

Edited July 29, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[rgs2001uk]

A couple of ideas:

- how do you expect to teach to a class of 40 or more students? It does not depends on pedagogy or quality of the teacher, it is impossible.

- how do you expect the student to properly do their homework when the TV is on, siblings are playing in the same room?

I have seen young, enthusiastic joint schools, but what can they do against the system?

Agreed; neither teachers nor students stand much of a chance under such conditions.

Dont agree with the above.

I and many others were regularly in classes of 40 or more pupils, and I managed ok, as did most of my peers.

Of course in these pc days the teacher is no longer allowed to control the classroom, lack of discipline, lumping all pupils together irrespective of learning ability, cant have little Somchai feeling stigmatised or victimised.

Perhaps the parents could send the children to their bedroom to do their homework, or exercise parental control and turn off the tv until the homework has been completed and checked. That would be too easy these days, parents passing their responsibilites as parents onto the schools.

Anytime the wifes nieces or nephews visit, they are always asked, do you have any homework, and if so has it been completed?

Culture and face also come into play, as long as teachers are held up as some sort of Holy Cow, what chance do either the pupils or parents have?

[elkangorito]

^If you haven't already done so, pay a visit to the 'Teaching in Thailand' part of this forum.

Edited July 29, 2010 by elkangorito

[LaoPo]

You see....substandard literacy doesn't mean a thing.

Really? I don't think you make a valid point. You neglect to mention that the people you cite achieved their success in countries that allowed for opportunity. Everything in Thailand is predicated on having a piece of paper first. One cannot get a job as a bank teller without a university diploma.

Albert Einstein was a graduate of Zurich's polytechnic, Rockefeller graduated cum laude from Ivy League Dartmouth, Jefferson was in a different era where skillsets were different and Churchill received the benefits of an advanced military service education etc. etc. There is no comparison or relationship between the achievements of the aforementioned people and illiterate 3rd graders in Thailand. I can assure you that all of the westerners you cite were not illiterate in their equivalent point in time with the Thai 3rd graders. The reality is that the Thai educational system has not evolved. It is still run much as it was 50 years ago. The world has changed, but Thailand's education system has not kept up with the changes. It is as simple as that.

Thailand, and any other Asian country, is much more a country full of opportunities rather than any western country nowadays and one needs a "piece of paper" in the west too if one applies for a job in a bank.

But entrepreneurs in the west and east take their chances without a piece of paper.

The OP article doesn't speak of illiterate 3rd graders but substandard 3rd graders.

You took one sentence out of my complete post which isn''t fair to judge about my total vision of the OP's article about the number of 30,000.

You see....substandard literacy doesn't mean a thing.....

...meaning one doesn't necessarily has to be a genius to make it in life, especially when it comes to people with dyslexia and that Geriatrickid was the essence of my post.....dyslexia.

Nobody, so far, has answered to my question how to implement that number of 30,000 substandard students.

I want to know the percentage of the total students not a mere number which doesn't say anything to me on a population of more than 66 million people with a literacy percentage of more than 92% and a life expectancy of 73+ years at birth.

That doesn't mean of course that I disagree with the -still- low level of the Thai education system/possibilities and the inability of many children from poor rural families to climb the ladder of higher education.

In the end it will affect the total Thai economical system and that....that is a very serious shortcoming for the future of Thailand. The gap between poor and middle to wealthy classes will grow and grow.

It has been the total failure of ALL past governments (read: elite) that they didn't invest more into the total Thai educational system and bring it to first world class standards; they DO have the money to do so. Without investing in education, a country -any country- will lose contact with the world.

If one knows about the total top quality educational system in China for instance, it's a bloody shame that Thailand is so far behind. China is investing major bucks into the educational system, schools and universities and the yearly number of graduates from Universities is simply mind boggling.

LaoPo

[Tod Daniels]

I wonder just how many MILLIONS of baht they poured into this insightful 'study' ?

Anyone who's spent 10 minutes in ANY public thai school could come to the same mind-numbing conclusion that the thai education system is out-dated, and woefully inadequate in today’s day and age, especially for a reputedly ‘developing third world country’. You could come to this conclusion even if you didn't speak or understand a single word in thai . You need only observe the format for teaching, the lack of in-class interaction and the lackadaisical way subjects are taught here.

Sometimes these studies (of which it appears there are no shortage of here in the ‘glorious Land ‘O Thais”) seem to be more about a Department of this or Ministry of that getting to spend their budget; as opposed to actually solving any of the problems they turn up with these incredibly important 'studies'.

I especially loved how the article quoted Dr. Benjaluck Namfa the "Director" of the "Bureau of Academic Affairs and Education Standard" as recommending; "authorities (should) compile information relative to the matter, analyze why students under-perform, and come up with long-term solutions."

So in other words, except for finding and pointing out that some 3rd grade students had difficulties, she offered NOTHING in the way of even a rudimentary solution or fix for the problem... .

At least she had the balls (albeit, small ones ) to say the students were not solely the cause of the problem. (WOW, she went way out on the proverbial limb with that statement!)

Even someone without the illustrious letters; PhD in front of their name might think it could be the teachers, the antiquated learn by rote methodology, or some other factor instead of blaming the students.

The mind wobbles.

In looking at statistics which thailand posts about its literacy rate (one of the highest in the world, far ahead of the US, UK); I’m sure glad thailand has its own version of the United States’ “No Child Left Behind” education initiative. It’s called, “no child EVER fails thai language in thailand.”, also known as ‘every child passes thai language, even the ones that fail”. ..

[elkangorito]

There is nothing terribly difficult about this problem. The root cause is simple & can be said in one word, which is "Culture".

[mark45y]

The entire Thai educational system is EXTREMELY substandard, and the sooner it's dealt with and no longer denied, the sooner it will improve, and things like democracy can flourish, and women can have more job choices besides the 'entertainment industry'...

Gotta admit it would be nice to have better educated bar girls.

[naiharn]

Literacy of 30,000 third graders substandard

So much for substandard literacy....Albert Einstein is a fine example for a genius with dyslexia next to another -living- giant: Bill Gates and his fellow computer nerd.....Steve Jobs.

A few more? Nelson Rockefeller, Churchill, Alexander Graham Bell, Henri Ford, Thomas Jefferson...

You see....substandard literacy doesn't mean a thing.

LaoPo

Albert Einstein was not dyslexic. See, for example, http://dyslexia.lear...mous-people.htm

He was also rather good at school:

"Einstein entered school at the age of six, and against popular belief did very well. When he was seven his mother wrote, "Yesterday Albert received his grades, he was again number one, his report card was brilliant." At the age of twelve Einstein was reading physics books. At thirteen, after reading the Critique of Pure Reason and the work of other philosophers, Einstein adopted Kant as his favorite author. About this time he also read Darwin. Pais states, "the widespread belief that he was a poor student is unfounded.""

I'm also dubious about Bill Gates but can't be bothered checking up.

[zzaa09]

Lots of complaining about the Thai education system. It is true that there is definite room for improvement, but no matter how good the education system is, the kids will reap little benefit from it without proper parenting. Education starts at home.

I am appalled at the parenting I see going on around me. Some will point to the different value systems as the cause and will defend the style of parenting. That is fine. They make valid points. But it is precisely these value systems that cause the education system fail, no matter how good the teacher.

For kids to succeed in school they need to start young. They need discipline. They need motivation. They need to do their homework. They need to study. These things need to be enforced in the home by the parents. Most parents simply are not doing their job of providing a household in which education is properly valued and nurtured. The results are clear.

Perhaps a home/private tutorial movement is in order. Direct involvement and supervision might be a benefactor. We, as civilsations, tend to accept the dependency towards an imprisoned system that passes for an educational one.

[mazeltov]

Literacy of 30,000 third graders substandard

...

So much for substandard literacy....Albert Einstein is a fine example for a genius with dyslexia next to another -living- giant: Bill Gates and his fellow computer nerd.....Steve Jobs.

A few more? Nelson Rockefeller, Churchill, Alexander Graham Bell, Henri Ford, Thomas Jefferson...

You see....substandard literacy doesn't mean a thing.

LaoPo

My thoughts exactly. I knew Albert Einstein had trouble with Math. I didn't realize he was dyslexia.

Both is BS and not true. Einstein was not dyslexic and he didn't had trouble with Math. Its a myth that Einstein was not good in school, widely believed but factually incorrect.

One biographer got something wrong, other copied and it without a own research. The mass media, the tabloid press knows that their audience isn't much into theoretical physics and uncertain principles of quantum mechanics in 4D, but their readers love human touch and biographical stories like this one and so it gets reprinted and retold again and again.

Gives people who are/were actually really not one of the more smarter kids the feeling that it might be the case that they could be somewhat other 'special', despite what the teacher said or how other school kids call them. Some of them may have even developed their own theories of something/everything, but facing dilemma that "all others don't get it"

[robsamui]

Most third graders any were are not reading and writing very well.

And not only third-graders, by the look of it!

[LaoPo]

Albert Einstein was not dyslexic. See, for example, http://dyslexia.lear...mous-people.htm

He was also rather good at school:

"Einstein entered school at the age of six, and against popular belief did very well. When he was seven his mother wrote, "Yesterday Albert received his grades, he was again number one, his report card was brilliant." At the age of twelve Einstein was reading physics books. At thirteen, after reading the Critique of Pure Reason and the work of other philosophers, Einstein adopted Kant as his favorite author. About this time he also read Darwin. Pais states, "the widespread belief that he was a poor student is unfounded.""

I'm also dubious about Bill Gates but can't be bothered checking up.

Well, I'm not going into a debate whether Einstein or others were/are dyslectic or not since it's not the point of the OP.

Against your link, there's another link where it is claimed that Einstein was suffering from dyslexia; the problem is that there are many signs that he WAS dyslectic but never tested and dyslexia (also called reading blind) is only commonly accepted since the late '60's (I'm talking Europe here)

http://www.einsteinm...albert_einstein

In MOST cases Dyslexia is only discovered with young children if they're 7 years of age or even older.

I know, since I have been living with members in my family who are dyslectic; many people cannot even understand that one of them wrote the name "Monique" in SEVEN different ways in one-and-the-same letter...go figure.

My point was that in the OP's article 30,000 children diagnosed with a substandard literacy but NOBODY has been able to inform me and others if that's a high percentage or not in a country with 66 Million people and how many amongst those 30,000 are suffering from Dyslexia or not.

EDIT:

Many people do not even know in detail what Dyslexia is and that there are many grades, minor and major, and for those who're willing to learn a bit about it:

http://www.dyslexia.com/

LaoPo

Edited August 1, 2010 by LaoPo

[cup-O-coffee]

Literacy, among many other learning and behavioral traits, I believe, begins in the home.

So, let's look at the homes. OK. The answer is clear. The "problem" if you wish to classify it as such, originates in the Thai home. No description need be stated here because if you understand this, good, and if you do not, then one needs to live here a bit to understand Thai family values and how they relate to the emerging globalization going on around this nation.

Dyslexia is indeed a factor, but again, an attentive parent who gets down to their child's level and teaches them how to play, read, write, etc. will immediately discover this impairment and deal with it. That requires an attentive parent or guardian (i.e. an 80 year old grandmother raising the kids; yeah right).

JFK's famous quote comes to mind, "ask not...".

It is quite possible that in order to rectify this degeneration of aptitude and literacy, and the divide that is increasing between the classes, that Thailand will somehow have to make some kind of strict intervention in these kids upbringing and incorporate something that will break the degenerative chain of growth, and the stagnation of the minds.

Clearly, the parents and guardians are not doing their part. Blaming the teachers (who are indeed a defective factor) is going too many links down the chain, and pointing a finger at a link that is emphatically not the weakest.

This is a generational problem, and will not go away soon. The sobering thing is that it would take many many years to curb, even were the perfect fix introduced into the equation this very moment.

It is interesting to note that the posters here who make exception to this rule, and who proudly exemplify their children's abilities, sound to me like devoted, loving, and attentive parents, who get down to their child's level, and truly interact with them more than an average of 5 to 10 seconds per day.

[mazeltov]

Well, I'm not going into a debate whether Einstein or others were/are dyslectic or not since it's not the point of the OP.

Against your link, there's another link where it is claimed that Einstein was suffering from dyslexia; the problem is that there are many signs that he WAS dyslectic but never tested and dyslexia (also called reading blind) is only commonly accepted since the late '60's (I'm talking Europe here)

http://www.einsteinm...albert_einstein

In MOST cases Dyslexia is only discovered with young children if they're 7 years of age or even older.

I know, since I have been living with members in my family who are dyslectic; many people cannot even understand that one of them wrote the name "Monique" in SEVEN different ways in one-and-the-same letter...go figure.

My point was that in the OP's article 30,000 children diagnosed with a substandard literacy but NOBODY has been able to inform me and others if that's a high percentage or not in a country with 66 Million people and how many amongst those 30,000 are suffering from Dyslexia or not.

EDIT:

Many people do not even know in detail what Dyslexia is and that there are many grades, minor and major, and for those who're willing to learn a bit about it:

http://www.dyslexia.com/

LaoPo

OMG. what a bizarre cult: 'dyslexia is a gift'.

While i agree with the point that this reading disability have nothing to do with the intellect of a person. It doesn't makes one dumber as the 'normal' people.

Dyslexia also makes one not superior to the 'normal' people, but the website seems to suggest otherwise.

Also that star cult of famous people with dyslexia s questionable. I am pretty sure you could make also a long list of infamous people nobody really wants to associate with, based on the common trait dyslexia. Just listing the 'heroes' with dyslexia is a fallacy. Nobody blames Vegetarian because some 20th century dictator and mass murder was a Vegetarian.

Actually that website looks like a scam. It doesn't provide much information but is all promotional stuff and advertising for a commercial product. Promising the persons suffering from dyslexia a miracle cure. Nothing more then the intent to sell some videos, DVDs, workshops. For example: the 12 minute video "I Can Do It: The Confidence to Learn" - $9. 5555. Cheating the money out of gullible suckers.

Anyway, you point rightly out that we should look at the percentage of those children diagnosed with a substandard literacy. but you a wrong when you say NOBODY can answer that. quick google search 'Thailand Birth rate ' and i know there are around one million new born Thai each year. So it is safe to assume that there also around 1,000,000 third graders. Makes that impressive number of 30,000 to only 3 percent. Funny isn't it, the headline could be Literacy Of 3-5% Thai Third Graders Substandard That is actually a to good to be true rate. school system in other countries around the globe will not do much better.

And that is below some estimated rates for dyslexia in a population but I think that dyslexia issue depends also very on the language spoken and the writing system is used for that language so maybe that dyslexia diagnosis cannot be applied here.

[rubl]

Who says what the standard is.

Where I come from they had problems with that so they changed the standards. Also we are in Thailand are you people talking about Thai or English. I agree that the younger they start the easier it is to learn. I just hope it is not a hard and fast rule as I am 68 and considering lessons in learning to read Thai.

Never too old to learn. Just remember it is NOT stupid to ask questions.

[way2muchcoffee]

Anyway, you point rightly out that we should look at the percentage of those children diagnosed with a substandard literacy. but you a wrong when you say NOBODY can answer that. quick google search 'Thailand Birth rate ' and i know there are around one million new born Thai each year. So it is safe to assume that there also around 1,000,000 third graders. Makes that impressive number of 30,000 to only 3 percent. Funny isn't it, the headline could be Literacy Of 3-5% Thai Third Graders Substandard That is actually a to good to be true rate. school system in other countries around the globe will not do much better.

And that is below some estimated rates for dyslexia in a population but I think that dyslexia issue depends also very on the language spoken and the writing system is used for that language so maybe that dyslexia diagnosis cannot be applied here.

Nice one. Thanks for pointing out the stats on this.

[LaoPo]

Dyslexia is indeed a factor, but again, an attentive parent who gets down to their child's level and teaches them how to play, read, write, etc. will immediately discover this impairment and deal with it. That requires an attentive parent or guardian (i.e. an 80 year old grandmother raising the kids; yeah right).

Really ?

It shows you never had anything to do with dyslectic children.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Anyway, you point rightly out that we should look at the percentage of those children diagnosed with a substandard literacy. but you a wrong when you say NOBODY can answer that. quick google search 'Thailand Birth rate ' and i know there are around one million new born Thai each year. So it is safe to assume that there also around 1,000,000 third graders. Makes that impressive number of 30,000 to only 3 percent. Funny isn't it, the headline could be Literacy Of 3-5% Thai Third Graders Substandard That is actually a to good to be true rate. school system in other countries around the globe will not do much better.

And that is below some estimated rates for dyslexia in a population but I think that dyslexia issue depends also very on the language spoken and the writing system is used for that language so maybe that dyslexia diagnosis cannot be applied here.

The number of 1,000,000 third graders in Thailand is too optimistic since there is a birthrate of 13,21 per 1.000 population in Thailand on a 66 Million population.

You will get a number 872,000 third graders but that number doesn't include the babies that die, are retarded or any other reason -AIDS- or other sickness for instance- which makes that child not reach the third grade.

The world book of facts by the CIA says:

"note: estimates for this country explicitly take into account the effects of excess mortality due to AIDS; this can result in lower life expectancy, higher infant mortality, higher death rates, lower population growth rates, and changes in the distribution of population by age and sex than would otherwise be expected (July 2010 est.)"

But, I give you that 3-5% is a very optimistic number in an article which describes it as sensational BAD news for Thailand.

Like I wrote before I have no idea whether Dyslexia is better or worse in Thailand with Thai script but the fact that Thai script is more complicated than our normal 26 letters in the west, it seems to me that Dyslexia could be even worse in Thailand than any given Western country but again, I don't know.

And, to come back to your remark that someone wrote (not me!) "dyslexia is a gift" and that you called it a bizarre cult thing, I point out that nowadays there is a tendency to consider dyslexia as a kind of gift because it doesn't have to be the bad disability of being dyslectic but merely something else which is bringing out the OTHER ABILITIES as GIFTS.

That is why there are so many -gifted- people in the world who have reached far higher than anyone would have ever anticipated that those people would have the ability to come so far.

I have seen 3 very good examples of people, very close to me, who are dyslectic and reached unbelievable goals: the Mother of my son, my son and someone who is now the most famous designer in my country.

I have to wait and hope to live long enough to see what my grandson will accomplish next, also being dyslectic and having an extremely difficult period now, studying, learning, reading and writing; but he's a devil in arithmetic

These people have to fight a lot harder than people who are able to easily read and write; that's why they bring out the "impossible gifts" in themselves.

LaoPo

[mazeltov]

Anyway, you point rightly out that we should look at the percentage of those children diagnosed with a substandard literacy. but you a wrong when you say NOBODY can answer that. quick google search 'Thailand Birth rate ' and i know there are around one million new born Thai each year. So it is safe to assume that there also around 1,000,000 third graders. Makes that impressive number of 30,000 to only 3 percent. Funny isn't it, the headline could be Literacy Of 3-5% Thai Third Graders Substandard That is actually a to good to be true rate. school system in other countries around the globe will not do much better.

And that is below some estimated rates for dyslexia in a population but I think that dyslexia issue depends also very on the language spoken and the writing system is used for that language so maybe that dyslexia diagnosis cannot be applied here.

The number of 1,000,000 third graders in Thailand is too optimistic since there is a birthrate of 13,21 per 1.000 population in Thailand on a 66 Million population.

You will get a number 872,000 third graders but that number doesn't include the babies that die, are retarded or any other reason -AIDS- or other sickness for instance- which makes that child not reach the third grade.

The world book of facts by the CIA says:

"note: estimates for this country explicitly take into account the effects of excess mortality due to AIDS; this can result in lower life expectancy, higher infant mortality, higher death rates, lower population growth rates, and changes in the distribution of population by age and sex than would otherwise be expected (July 2010 est.)"

But, I give you that 3-5% is a very optimistic number in an article which describes it as sensational BAD news for Thailand.

Like I wrote before I have no idea whether Dyslexia is better or worse in Thailand with Thai script but the fact that Thai script is more complicated than our normal 26 letters in the west, it seems to me that Dyslexia could be even worse in Thailand than any given Western country but again, I don't know.

well, i thought that the number of 30,000 third graders is also somewhere heavily rounded, so i did the same. and you would have to look at the birth rate some years ago and then you still get a very vague result using this method but accurate enough to put that 30,000 into relation and have a figure in percent and better than NOBODY can answer your question, so don't try to be smarter now.

the modern latin alphabet with its 26 letters is a highly abstract system, that its less complicated than the Thai writing system i would not call a fact.

[LaoPo]

well, i thought that the number of 30,000 third graders is also somewhere heavily rounded, so i did the same. and you would have to look at the birth rate some years ago and then you still get a very vague result using this method but accurate enough to put that 30,000 into relation and have a figure in percent and better than NOBODY can answer your question, so don't try to be smarter now.

the modern latin alphabet with its 26 letters is a highly abstract system, that its less complicated than the Thai writing system i would not call a fact.

1. Everybody knows that you are smarter.

2. Nobody called it a fact since there hasn't been a study, AFAIK, which alphabet is more difficult, Latin or Thai, for dyslectic people to read and write.

LaoPo

[mazeltov]

well, i thought that the number of 30,000 third graders is also somewhere heavily rounded, so i did the same. and you would have to look at the birth rate some years ago and then you still get a very vague result using this method but accurate enough to put that 30,000 into relation and have a figure in percent and better than NOBODY can answer your question, so don't try to be smarter now.

the modern latin alphabet with its 26 letters is a highly abstract system, that its less complicated than the Thai writing system i would not call a fact.

1. Everybody knows that you are smarter.

2. Nobody called it a fact since there hasn't been a study, AFAIK, which alphabet is more difficult, Latin or Thai, for dyslectic people to read and write.

LaoPo

1. you wrote: "the OP's article 30,000 children diagnosed with a substandard literacy but NOBODY has been able to inform me and others if that's a high percentage or not "

I gave you an answer and it was not that difficult to figure out (if you are not mentally handicapped 'GIFTED with the OTHER ABILITIES').

Instead of being happy with my assistance to give you a clue, you started to schoolmaster me, but failed actually a second time. now the third. don't try to be smarter than you are.

2. you wrote: " but the fact that Thai script is more complicated than our normal 26 letters in the west,"

is nobody your second name? like in this two instances, when you spoke of 'nobody' you meant actually yourself.

and please for the future don't alter and modify my entries when you quote me, like putting words in bold.

[elkangorito]

well, i thought that the number of 30,000 third graders is also somewhere heavily rounded, so i did the same. and you would have to look at the birth rate some years ago and then you still get a very vague result using this method but accurate enough to put that 30,000 into relation and have a figure in percent and better than NOBODY can answer your question, so don't try to be smarter now.

the modern latin alphabet with its 26 letters is a highly abstract system, that its less complicated than the Thai writing system i would not call a fact.

1. Everybody knows that you are smarter.

2. Nobody called it a fact since there hasn't been a study, AFAIK, which alphabet is more difficult, Latin or Thai, for dyslectic people to read and write.

LaoPo

'Get over it' you pair!

Everybody knows that this is a ploy to allow yet more money to be wasted on a totally disfunctional education system, as well as give the ministry of culture some extra reasons to ban certain things & reinforce other things.

[LaoPo]

1. you wrote: "the OP's article 30,000 children diagnosed with a substandard literacy but NOBODY has been able to inform me and others if that's a high percentage or not "

I gave you an answer and it was not that difficult to figure out (if you are not mentally handicapped 'GIFTED with the OTHER ABILITIES').

Instead of being happy with my assistance to give you a clue, you started to schoolmaster me, but failed actually a second time. now the third. don't try to be smarter than you are.

2. you wrote: " but the fact that Thai script is more complicated than our normal 26 letters in the west,"

is nobody your second name? like in this two instances, when you spoke of 'nobody' you meant actually yourself.

and please for the future don't alter and modify my entries when you quote me, like putting words in bold.

1. I wrote in post #53: "But, I give you that 3-5% is a very optimistic number in an article which describes it as sensational BAD news for Thailand."

Is it not enough praise for you?

2. You speak of schoolmaster...and take my sentences out of context yourself, acting as a schoolmaster.

3. see 2

End of my contribution about dyslexia, unless you have an idea about the % of dyslectic children in Thailand...in which I would be most interested.

edit:

I better don't answer to your remark "mentally handicapped"....

LaoPo

Edited August 10, 2010 by LaoPo

[MrMo]

For family reasons I have recently taken an interest in dyslexia.

I can find only one study of dyslexia in Thailand. That was made of a single school by a very reputable Thai university in 2002. The findings were "prevalence of dyslexia and probable dyslexia were found to be 6.3 per cent and 12.6 per cent, respectively". "The male to female ratio of dyslexia was 3.4:1." (Could this be why boys tend to do less well academically than girls?) http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12549782

It would seem that the reports recommendation that a wider study be carried out hasn't been followed up or, if it has, I haven't been able to find it in English.

As to other countries, USA is 5% to 15% with some studies suggesting the upper end should be closer to 20%. Most European studies show similar 5% to 15%. Japan and China are lower. Could this be because they're script is not alphabet based but are rather pictorial ? Pictures are something dyslexics are good at.

Dyslexia is hereditary through the male line. Each generation doesn't necessarily outwardly show signs of the condition. My generation of three boys and two girls didn't outwardly show any signs but the next generation (also of three boys and two girls) has two of the boys, by different fathers, with dyslexia. Dyslexic charateristics can also be brought on as a result of a head trauma.

LaoPo is basically correct to say that tests didn't really come in to being until the 60's though the condition was beginning to be recognised in the 20's. I could go on and on identifying famous people who showed classic signs of one or more types of dyslexia. But suffice to say people such as Albert Einstein, Woodrow Wilson, Henry Ford, Winston Churchill, Graham Alexander Bell, Walt Disney and George Patton quite possibly wouldn't have achieved what they did if they hadn't the condition. The list would also have include many, many people from the stage and screen.

In a similar way to the other senses of a person who is deaf or blind are often enhanced, so does the brain "compensate" for the dyslexic condition by enhancing other skills, spatial awareness and higher intelligence are two good example.

An interesting short read to help understand the basic condition can be found at

http://www.post-gaze...nt-meet-471693/

I'll include one final point to stamp on any use of mental handicap / mentally challenged / etc / etc. The IQ of dyslexics is generally higher than that of non-dyslexics.

If anyone out there knows of any organisations in Thailand that provides guidance and support to dyslexics and their families I would be very pleased to hear from you.

[Kilgore Trout]

This story ties in with the rich and poor divide story today.

All the wealthy Thais (Education Ministers included) send their kids to private schools, so they are totally oblivious of the sub standard teaching in government schools. Every year a study shows that schools and teachers are under performing and the government spends more money on a further study.

Surely the problem must lie squarely at the Education Ministry making poor decisions with teacher training and the school curriculum.

At the end of the day nothing will change as the decision makers don't send their kids to government schools so why should they care.

Problem; there is no problem. Things are exactly the way the should be, although a little worse from last year.

Do you really think the powers that be want an educated and literate underclass?