Obligatory And Useless Us Embassy Rant

[SomTumTiger]

My wife and I want to talk our 11 year old nephew to the US with us in October, to show him another country/cultural trip, etc. We have tickets booked, and I started in on the long process to get a visa. I knew it would be challenging, but no idea what a clusterf%ck the process actually is.

Starting off - there are about 3 different websites you can be referred to, to get information. That is followed by filling out the application form, which is now entirely online. No problem, right? Except that you only have 20 minutes to fill all 15 pages, or it resent, and you have to do the entire document again. Had that happen once, learned my lesson, and was faster the 2nd time.

Move on to the pin. Reading about two options - purchasing one at the Post office, or purchasing it via the website. The website they direct you to, doesn't really ever say you can purchase the pin there, until you get to the 3rd page, when you are prompted to enter your pin or purchase. I purchased, and opted for the web service. Not so fast - the pin doesn't' become active for a day, so have to wait. I wait, and fill out another 10 pages of information, i finally get to the "choose your date" page, and there are no available dates. None. Not this month, next month, next year, or in three years. None. I start to think, maybe I did something wrong? Repeat the process again. Same result. I muse...must be because I used firefox instead of IE7. I fire up IE7 and redo the form - same result. I decided to sleep on it, and try again the next day. Same result. I send an email to the "help desk" and get a computer response. We'll be back to you in 3 days.... Wonderful. Still thinking, maybe there is a computer problem.

I call the "live" number (an 001 call on a dodgy connection, so that half the time it doesn't register my "Push 1 for english" pushes. I decide to purchase a "live pin". Because it is impossible to call the embassy and ask for help. They don't give you any option. The phone number they do provide, is just a verbal rehashing of the website instructions, and nothing more. Purchase my new pin, and talk to a real life person. Spend about 20 minutes giving her all the information for my nephew, including the "Let me see if I have the name right...A as in Apple, G as in Gamma, etc.". On a Thai last name, this can take frickin forever. Get to the end, she has all my information, she says - Let me get you an appointment now - and then .....ready for it? She says - Oh, there are no dates available at all. Call back on Monday, maybe they will add some. #$_@(*@)#$*@)#$(*@)#$*(_)#($*)@(#$()

Last month I got a visa for my wife, to visit Australia. Form, Money, photo, visit embassy to turn in, they mail to here in 3 days - finished.

No wonder my damned country can't win a war in Afghanistan, against a bunch of cave dwellers. It probably takes 18 form pages to fire a damned missile....

Rant over. Let the flaming begin.

[jackdawson]

i feel ur pain . u could take him to canada instead . has mostly everything american and is a lot cleaner .

Edited July 29, 2010 by jackdawson

[Furbie]

Interesting. My ex-girlfriend (who is Thai) had no trouble researching this on her own, applying for and receiving her PIN on-line, then making her appointment and receiving her visa. This was in 2008, so under the same system.

[mario299]

Interesting. My ex-girlfriend (who is Thai) had no trouble researching this on her own, applying for and receiving her PIN on-line, then making her appointment and receiving her visa. This was in 2008, so under the same system.

Furbie, your ex-girlfriend is one lucky person to have so easily walked through the most frustrating, aggravating, disappointing experience I have ever had the dis-pleasure to experience...TWICE. What SomTumTiger has related is the norm for the US Embassy in trying to get anything from them. My wife and I tried twice to get a visitor Visa for her daughter to go to the US to be a part of our intended wedding there with all my family and friends. We were turned down the first time for not giving sufficient reasons for my step-daughter to return to Thailand after visiting the US.

I then purchased round-trip tickets for her, provided a letter from her school indicating her schedule of classes, and provided a letter from our District Office in Surin that we (my wife) owns land and has built a home to live in there. The "cocky-boy" at the US Embassy turned us down again, suggesting it would be best if our daughter had a job to return to. She was 12 years old at the time, for crying out loud. This was in 2007, and we subsequently had our wedding in America without our daughter. She was heart-broken. I had to eat the airline tickets I bought for her, but that wasn't what hurt me the most, it was the attitude of ALL the employees at the US Embassy in Bangkok. No one cares a bit about the American citizens they are supposed to be representing.

Best of luck to you, SomTumTiger, I hope your experience turns out to be a good one. I still remain embarrassed that my country would allow this to happen.

mario299

[Nuriel220]

i feel ur pain . u could take him to canada instead . has mostly everything american and is a lot cleaner .

[moe666]

I think they have made the application process hard to discourage people from applying so they donot have to work.

[SiangDeeMahk]

Cant flame you at all, my American brother..

The entire proccess is Effed..

I bear the scars (including the website timeouts & crashes, lack of appointments, unreachable phone support, and after finally leaping all the hurdles and getting an actual appointment; 10000% sadaistic Embassy staff) of 2 utterly unsuccessfull attempts to get a Visa for my longtime GF. Including RT air tickets, full touring/travel itenerary, proof of reservations at hotels, letters of recomendation, evidence of already paid-for educational commitments (to return to) in Thailand, multiple property ownership documents, clear documentation of all blood relations in Thailand, documents of financial guarantee, ample photographic, e-mail, and printed (reciepts, bills) evidence of a (then) 3+ year relationship and cohabitation, pasport evidence of travel to (and back again from) several other countries, letters of invitation to visit the US... ALL appropriately noterized..

The entire affair is a complete embarrasment to me as an American, and a complete travesty perpetrated apon Americans.

Jeez.. Now I'M uselessly ranting! :-(

[7by7]

Moving to Visas and migration to other countries, where you are more likely to receive some advice on how to proceed.

[dumball]

I had this same type of experience with the Canadian Embassy in BKK , they phoned her 1 week after reciept of her application to say all was well but needed more info on her family(?) which i provided in both languages and a copy of the house book , she was turned down for the same reason , may not return after expiration of her visa . I did , however , contact the airline about re-embursment for the airfare , they informed me that the travel agent should not have sold her tickets without a visa stamped in her passport , agent paid back all but $300.00 of the total fare .

Reports over the years show that prodigious numbers of Asians fail to leave multiple countries on the expiration of visas , yet on the other side of the coin , 60% of accepted immigrants to Canada are Asian , due to thier assimilation record and self reliance .

[Furbie]

I've heard all these bad experiences at the US Embassy, I know nothing about the situations of the other posters and their wives, girlfriends, family members etc., and I do agree that the US visa law/regulations is vague, requiring sufficient ties to one's home country, which is widely open to interpretation and the discretion of the consular personnel. However, and I say this to inform others, I know many people who have gone through the visa process and had an easy time. I know some who required more information, but were successful.

The key is to understand the system and the requirements. Sufficient ties to one's home country are required. While I agree that asking that a 12 year old have a job is ridiculous in the extreme, she must have sufficient ties to Thailand to convince a consular officer she will return. And because an American was bringing her to America, my understanding of the procedure is that once an American is involved in the process, it becomes almost all about that American's ties to Thailand; ie., they don't want you bringing someone to America and then them staying there with you – especially a girlfriend who they think you will marry while in America and jump the visa line. That means, if you want to take someone with you to America, you better dam_n well be able to convince the consular officer you have every single intention of returning to Thailand with said person. That means a good job in or significant assets in Thailand, or other strong ties so as to convince the consular officer you will return. Saying you have family in Thailand, forget it, that is not strong ties – look how many people leave their family behind to go to the US. Once you understand this key point, the system is no longer a mystery. That's why lots of little teeraks of retired guys living on pensions get declined – the guys have no real ties to Thailand in the eyes of US visa law. It's about the money in Thailand!

So, to sum up. If you're a Thai, you need to prove sufficient ties to Thailand. That means MONEY or assets in Thailand – family means nothing. If you throw an American into the mix, the American must have sufficient ties to Thailand – that means job or significant assets in Thailand – enough to convince the consular officer you will return. If these requirements cannot be met, you are wasting your time.

Depending on who is applying and the relationship with the American, the consular officer may be more or less lenient with the applicant – but it is based primarily on the American. Example, I met this girl last week and I am taking her to America – doesn't matter how long and how much you have in Thailand, she won't get a visa. If you have a girlfriend of a decent length of time, who has a job and you can document your relationship, even if she does not meet the threshold, they will base it upon you and your ties to Thailand, she should be able to get a visa based upon your strong ties to Thailand. The girl has a good job, assets and/or other economic ties to Thailand, probably best for the American to stay out of the picture, unless he has strong ties to Thailand, as the girl can qualify on her own, and you will only muck up the works.

It's all about the money. I hope this makes it clearer for guys who are trying.

[SomTumTiger]

Thanks guys - i keep checking the online system - and they provide no open dates to get an appointment. With no recourse of talking to an actual person. Might just have to give up...

Take him to Singapore and let them get our money instead. US doesn't need it apparently.

[yesdavy]

Interesting. My ex-girlfriend (who is Thai) had no trouble researching this on her own, applying for and receiving her PIN on-line, then making her appointment and receiving her visa. This was in 2008, so under the same system.

Furbie, your ex-girlfriend is one lucky person to have so easily walked through the most frustrating, aggravating, disappointing experience I have ever had the dis-pleasure to experience...TWICE. What SomTumTiger has related is the norm for the US Embassy in trying to get anything from them. My wife and I tried twice to get a visitor Visa for her daughter to go to the US to be a part of our intended wedding there with all my family and friends. We were turned down the first time for not giving sufficient reasons for my step-daughter to return to Thailand after visiting the US.

I then purchased round-trip tickets for her, provided a letter from her school indicating her schedule of classes, and provided a letter from our District Office in Surin that we (my wife) owns land and has built a home to live in there. The "cocky-boy" at the US Embassy turned us down again, suggesting it would be best if our daughter had a job to return to. She was 12 years old at the time, for crying out loud. This was in 2007, and we subsequently had our wedding in America without our daughter. She was heart-broken. I had to eat the airline tickets I bought for her, but that wasn't what hurt me the most, it was the attitude of ALL the employees at the US Embassy in Bangkok. No one cares a bit about the American citizens they are supposed to be representing.

Best of luck to you, SomTumTiger, I hope your experience turns out to be a good one. I still remain embarrassed that my country would allow this to happen.

mario299

The kid couldn't have a job at 12, but could you have put ten large in a bank account in her name? Works in VN. At least it did, and the amount was 7K. I believe they would get the visa and upon departing would effect a wire transfer to a friend's bank in the US and then jump the tourist visa, marry a citizen, and file for a green card.

[TravelerEastWest]

I think that the comments about money are accurate.

As for the Visa appointment try to be creative:

Use your American passport and signup for a misc appointment and talk to a consul about your situation and ask for help.

Ask politely what the step by step process is to escalate your complaint.

Personally I have not had any problems with consulate staff in Bangkok. I had an appointment to register my sons birth and I was late due to traffic and they still saw us and took care of us with a smile.

The appointment system for normal appointments for American citizens works smoothly. Perhaps the visa appointment system is a new one and they do not realize it? 

[gotlost]

i feel ur pain . u could take him to canada instead . has mostly everything american and is a lot cleaner .

Its polluted with Canadians, that's bad enough.

[Utley]

About four years ago I applied for a fiancé visa for my now Thai wife. She had a job in Thailand, had two Thai bank accounts and owned a condo. She dressed conservatively and went for her appointment; had no problem getting her visa.

We went to the U.S., got married and returned to Thailand and recorded our marriage with the Thai Government. A year later we applied for her tourist visa so we could attend my sister's wedding in the U.S. We filled out the paperwork, provided the same documentation and she went for her interview. The U.S. Embassy person who interviewed her was very surprised that she did not stay in the U.S.on the previous trip as she had a fiancé visa which, when married, automatically leads to a green card and eventually citizenship. She told him that I am retired and we preferred to live full time in Thailand. He was impressed and gave my wife a tourist visa good for multiple entries over a 10 year period.

For us dealing with the U.S. Embassy was easy once we learned how to deal with their bureaucracy. Be aware however that the interview is all important; more important than the documentation. The U.S. Consulars are well trained and ask specific questions during the interview process for specific reasons. If the Thai applicant appears overly nervous, does not maintain eye contact, or doesn't dress well then regardless of the documentation there will be no visa.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Utley

[ricardofel]

The most important aspect of getting the visa is the interview and that is a crap-shoot. It took my Thai wife 2 years and 3 applications. The first 2 guys were blithering idiots who asked the most insipid questions that had nothing to do with anything. Her 3rd try we did have many things going for us: 1. wrote to my congressman, his assistant contacted the embassy before the interview. 2. My wife was in law school for 1 year, 3 to go.......3. We were legally married for over 2 years, had lived in our house in Chiangmai for over 2 years and we had loads of other paperwork that he didn't even look at. He was a totally nice guy, interview was a breeze and she got a 10 year multiple. You can only pray you get a nice consular officer.

[redfish44]

Hi,

I feel your pain. I had to get a US visa for work, and thought it might be easier as an Aussie - wrong. They are the same to everyone who isn't American.

Getting the appointment is only the start.

Be perpared that you need to have a US sized photo - which I didn't have, so got sent away to get one - they do them across the road in the mall in the red building.

You have to have all your forms filled out before they even let you in the front door, and you have to be "on the list" before they let you in at all.

When you go in you have to leave pretty much all your belongings at the front desk too.

Then you get to line up by the fish pond - outside - for ages. They courteously have some fans there, so everyone has to hold onto their mounds of paperwork by grim death for fear of it blowing in the fish pond. After a few hours if you pass you are allowed inside the building to wait again for the interviews and payment. You can buy the envelope inside the embassy by the fish pond.

You can also pay the visa fee in the post office behind the red building across the road - you need a copy of your PIN from the internet/email or they make you buy another.

If eventually you get a visa - make sure you check it is correct. They gave me the wrong kind. And then I got stuck as no one to contact via phone etc - just like you know about now. Even my company visa compliance unit in the USA could not help. They eventually call you if you send the email to let them know it is wrong. Then I got to go back. And after a long long day, they gave me another visa there in the embassy, but it was also wrong... another 2 days later I finally got a valid one.

Anyone who has been through this has new found sympathy for the crowds every day outside on Wireless Road.

Good luck!

[redfish44]

during my long wait one day I got chatting to the Thai lady that runs the Bangkok Boutique Hotel - she had been trying to get a visa to visit USA for her daughters graduation - she has been familiar with US visas for years I think, so am sure she could give you some tips if you drop in.

[Trouble]

Can't let people with honest intentions enter the USA but we got 12 million from south of the border living here illegally. Maybe everyone should just fly to Mexico and then walk over the border. Seems to be no problem for the Mexicans.

[bangkokburning]

What if we all decided to do something about this instead of just whinging? I am serious. Request an audience with no less than the ambassador to inform her of the shoddy treatment. What if we all wrote our congressmen and senators. What if we told the ambassador that we will as a group write to our congress as to the lack of service. As a group effort and a commitment, a real effort of solidarity.

My girlfriend will be applying next year to go with me for a month to US. We will be visiting family, two national parks. I am cringing and worried.

[JoeInSurin]

Thanks guys - i keep checking the online system - and they provide no open dates to get an appointment. With no recourse of talking to an actual person. Might just have to give up...

Take him to Singapore and let them get our money instead. US doesn't need it apparently.

STT try again today. I also have been trying for weeks with no success but today they have available appointments and I was able to get one.