The, I Have Been Here Longer Than You! Mentality.

[zzaa09]

Try looking at it from a different perspective. Lets say you have been at your chosen career for twenty or thirty years and some new kid come along and tells you, that you have your head deeply implanted in that notorious place where the sun doesn't shine. After a few days or months on the job, he knows better than you. I would bet that it would take a whole lot of convincing before you were inclined to believe him.

With my tenure in Thailand going back to 1975, I'm also going to take a little convincing from the newbie, that he knows more than I do about my life experience in Thailand, than I do. I'm often amused at how little some know and how convinced they are that they know everything. The simple truth is that we all have different experiences here and there is no, one-size-fits-all explanation, for the farang quandary or predicament. What holds true for one, may not hold true for another.

Only maybe agreewith you.If you had lived in a remote village since 1975 you would know nothing about Thailand and the thai people.However someone that had lived here 10 years and travelled all over Thailnd would know more.

Assumptions. Troubling assumptions.....

[zzaa09]

Frankly, the amount of time someone has spent in Thailand doesn't really mean squat to me. It's the substance of what you're saying. I see a direct correlation between someone's lot in life (i.e., financial situation, relationships, professional status, etc.) and their attitude towards Thailand. In short, the more the expat's life sucks, the more he complains and has negative views. Further, expats who have no Thai language skills, only hangs out with fellow expats (and their bargirl wife/GF and her impoverished family), and doesn't interact with normal Thai's, have zero credibility when discussing anything about Thai's and Thailand. They haven't a clue. TV seems to be inundated with these types of expats.

Might I add that such types are not just limited to TV but the overwhelming reality and reflection of most expats here. Long-timers, short-timers, wannabes, etc.

[maccaroni man]

ok i am going to jump in on this one, for the most part i am like a previous poster, i see the good bad and the ugly in thailand and se asia, the locals and the tourist alike. I have been in thailand just over 10yrs (will never be sen as a thai)and have traveled to the north, the central, the south, and west but have never been to the issan area. imho all regions are different and the local culture is different so when a tv poster comes on line and starts making broad brush generalizations regarding why expats are here and why we may complain, it hits a nerve for me and i have to ask, who is this person? where have they been? what have they seen? how long have they been here? As an other stated the longer i stay the more i know that i know very little, so when the all knowing come on line it makes me wonder how they became so wise.

[carmine]

Well, Mr. Tigerfish, after just reading your opening comments, I must say that your perception of what this forum is may be a tad naïve. You're right in that this forum could be a useful source of information for some topics. But unfortunately, it's often hi-jacked by disgruntled lowlifes who believe that by attacking Thai's and the Thai way, it somehow improves their social standing. It doesn't. There are many of us here who are offended by that and will make our feelings known. If you have a problem with that, then I'm sorry (well, not really).

Frankly, the amount of time someone has spent in Thailand doesn't really mean squat to me. It's the substance of what you're saying. I see a direct correlation between someone's lot in life (i.e., financial situation, relationships, professional status, etc.) and their attitude towards Thailand. In short, the more the expat's life sucks, the more he complains and has negative views. Further, expats who have no Thai language skills, only hangs out with fellow expats (and their bargirl wife/GF and her impoverished family), and doesn't interact with normal Thai's, have zero credibility when discussing anything about Thai's and Thailand. They haven't a clue. TV seems to be inundated with these types of expats.

Well Mr Berkshire, thats a rather unecessary and unpleasant response to the OP's topic that is totally innofensive. Time to look in the mirror, and perhaps change the record.

[Thakkar]

ok i am going to jump in on this one, for the most part i am like a previous poster, i see the good bad and the ugly in thailand and se asia, the locals and the tourist alike. I have been in thailand just over 10yrs (will never be sen as a thai)and have traveled to the north, the central, the south, and west but have never been to the issan area. imho all regions are different and the local culture is different so when a tv poster comes on line and starts making broad brush generalizations regarding why expats are here and why we may complain, it hits a nerve for me and i have to ask, who is this person? where have they been? what have they seen? how long have they been here? As an other stated the longer i stay the more i know that i know very little, so when the all knowing come on line it makes me wonder how they became so wise.

Agreed.

"The more we learn, the more we know how little we know" Increased humility is a sure sign that one is learning. On the other hand, "the moment we realize we are humble, we are no longer humble," so a bit of a conundrum there.

The more confidence with which someone asserts their knowledge of Thai's, or The Irish, or Koreans, or women the less I'm inclined to defer to them on those topics.

Generally speaking knowledge of a place/a people is in proportion to time spent there/with them, assuming one interacts sufficiently with one's surroundings. Sadly, quite a few reach a point of diminishing return where past learning solidifies and interferes with new learning. After all, cultures, peoples and languages are in constant flux. And let's not forget that some individuals are more intuitive/clever/active/sociable/thoughtful than others and learn more in a given amount of time.

But all things being equal, I don't doubt that the longer you've lived here, the more tuned you become to the place. But with so many caveats, that's not a very meaningful statement.

[Jimi007]

No I dont think it does, its like most things in life some people can see and understand things quickly and learn everything fast others dont doesnt matter if they've been here a lifetime.

The ones that don't learn fast are unlikely to be here a lifetime...............right?

Or, their lifetime may become a short one? There have been some good posts on this thread. An interesting read...

One would hope with more experience, one would learn more and have would have less of an attitude towards others... But that doesn't seem to be the case with many people, including myself at times. At least I am aware of some of my flaws and try to improve a little everyday. But, I know I still have a long way to go!

[Berkshire]

Well, Mr. Tigerfish, after just reading your opening comments, I must say that your perception of what this forum is may be a tad naïve. You're right in that this forum could be a useful source of information for some topics. But unfortunately, it's often hi-jacked by disgruntled lowlifes who believe that by attacking Thai's and the Thai way, it somehow improves their social standing. It doesn't. There are many of us here who are offended by that and will make our feelings known. If you have a problem with that, then I'm sorry (well, not really).

Frankly, the amount of time someone has spent in Thailand doesn't really mean squat to me. It's the substance of what you're saying. I see a direct correlation between someone's lot in life (i.e., financial situation, relationships, professional status, etc.) and their attitude towards Thailand. In short, the more the expat's life sucks, the more he complains and has negative views. Further, expats who have no Thai language skills, only hangs out with fellow expats (and their bargirl wife/GF and her impoverished family), and doesn't interact with normal Thai's, have zero credibility when discussing anything about Thai's and Thailand. They haven't a clue. TV seems to be inundated with these types of expats.

Well Mr Berkshire, thats a rather unecessary and unpleasant response to the OP's topic that is totally innofensive. Time to look in the mirror, and perhaps change the record.

I thought I was being rather magnanimous. But seriously, the OP could have been talking about me. He wrote something on another thread which I found to be somewhat condescending and offensive (about the Thai's, of course). Well I called him on it. Is that not allowed? Expat's can just insult Thai's with impunity and you're ok with that? Well I'm not. If someone is a pr*ck, they deserve to be treated like a pr*ck. This whole Rodney King attitude of "why can't we all just get along" is fine and dandy, but it only works if we are all playing by the same rules.

[robblok]

Well, Mr. Tigerfish, after just reading your opening comments, I must say that your perception of what this forum is may be a tad naïve. You're right in that this forum could be a useful source of information for some topics. But unfortunately, it's often hi-jacked by disgruntled lowlifes who believe that by attacking Thai's and the Thai way, it somehow improves their social standing. It doesn't. There are many of us here who are offended by that and will make our feelings known. If you have a problem with that, then I'm sorry (well, not really).

Frankly, the amount of time someone has spent in Thailand doesn't really mean squat to me. It's the substance of what you're saying. I see a direct correlation between someone's lot in life (i.e., financial situation, relationships, professional status, etc.) and their attitude towards Thailand. In short, the more the expat's life sucks, the more he complains and has negative views. Further, expats who have no Thai language skills, only hangs out with fellow expats (and their bargirl wife/GF and her impoverished family), and doesn't interact with normal Thai's, have zero credibility when discussing anything about Thai's and Thailand. They haven't a clue. TV seems to be inundated with these types of expats.

I have met many english teachers and friends who are not high wage earners and they do like Thailand but they do have a possitive view of Thailand. But then they are not in the bar scene.

But its a nice thing to silence your debate partners to say if your not well of or have no means you complain about Thailand. So either admit to that or shut up. Good tactics.

I do have to agree that people who have loads of money that they would be more possible about Thailand but they would be more positive anywhere. However having complaints about something means you care and there is a difference between having valid points or wining.

I must say i'm now getting more and more income but its not really influencing how i look at Thailand. I still see the bad the good and the ugly.

This is, quite honestly, what I have observed in real life...not just on TV. It's sort of like observing that most people in prison are from impoverished backgrounds. Does that mean that all folks in prison are poor? No. Does it mean that poor people are inherently more dishonest and have a higher propensity for crime? No. Not all expat chronic complainers are dirt poor or have personal issues. But I believe most are and do. There are always exceptions.

I must have met all the exceptions then,.. or you have and your posting isn't sound. Anyway you seem to think you have to defend all the bad Thai things and i don't see the reason for it. Why can't you accept there are enough bad things in Thailand that are valid to complain about.

You also don't seem to accept that bad things remain longer in someone's memory then good things and is more often reported (look at the normal news). I don't call it bashing of Thais just pointing out and condemning the negatives.

[Berkshire]

I must have met all the exceptions then,.. or you have and your posting isn't sound. Anyway you seem to think you have to defend all the bad Thai things and i don't see the reason for it. Why can't you accept there are enough bad things in Thailand that are valid to complain about.

You also don't seem to accept that bad things remain longer in someone's memory then good things and is more often reported (look at the normal news). I don't call it bashing of Thais just pointing out and condemning the negatives.

I don't think you're reading me. I'm not out to defend Thai's on each and every occasion. I can see with my own eyes what's good and bad about Thailand. But then there's honest "complaining," and then there's being a pr*ck. For example, you can certainly complain that Thai soap operas are boring and uninteresting to you. Fine. But when you say that Thai's that watch it are buffoons and Thai's that make it are total incompetent idiots, then I believe that you're being unreasonable. I can tear to shreds pretty much anything that anyone watches if I wanted to. Another example: A guy can say that he finds visiting girly bars to be pretty boring and uninteresting. I'm sure you'd be fine with that. But what if the same guy were to say that any farang that visits girly bars are a bunch of loser perverts, would that be cool?

[tigerfish]

Well, Mr. Tigerfish, after just reading your opening comments, I must say that your perception of what this forum is may be a tad naïve. You're right in that this forum could be a useful source of information for some topics. But unfortunately, it's often hi-jacked by disgruntled lowlifes who believe that by attacking Thai's and the Thai way, it somehow improves their social standing. It doesn't. There are many of us here who are offended by that and will make our feelings known. If you have a problem with that, then I'm sorry (well, not really).

Frankly, the amount of time someone has spent in Thailand doesn't really mean squat to me. It's the substance of what you're saying. I see a direct correlation between someone's lot in life (i.e., financial situation, relationships, professional status, etc.) and their attitude towards Thailand. In short, the more the expat's life sucks, the more he complains and has negative views. Further, expats who have no Thai language skills, only hangs out with fellow expats (and their bargirl wife/GF and her impoverished family), and doesn't interact with normal Thai's, have zero credibility when discussing anything about Thai's and Thailand. They haven't a clue. TV seems to be inundated with these types of expats.

Well Mr Berkshire, thats a rather unecessary and unpleasant response to the OP's topic that is totally innofensive. Time to look in the mirror, and perhaps change the record.

I thought I was being rather magnanimous. But seriously, the OP could have been talking about me. He wrote something on another thread which I found to be somewhat condescending and offensive (about the Thai's, of course). Well I called him on it. Is that not allowed? Expat's can just insult Thai's with impunity and you're ok with that? Well I'm not. If someone is a pr*ck, they deserve to be treated like a pr*ck. This whole Rodney King attitude of "why can't we all just get along" is fine and dandy, but it only works if we are all playing by the same rules.

lets put the record straight shall we mr. berkshire. you didnt call me on anything, you as in a perfect example of why i started this thread, assumed that i did not understand a word of thai without even knowing me. then questioned the fact of how long i had actually been living in this country, of which i replied and put you in your place. and if what i said about thai t.v. soap operas to which a lot of other posters agree with and that is taken as being condescending and offensive( ie being a prick) rather than an observation then so be it.

Edited August 2, 2010 by tigerfish

[Berkshire]

lets put the record straight shall we mr. berkshire. you didnt call me on anything, you as in a perfect example of why i started this thread, assumed that i did not understand a word of thai without even knowing me. then questioned the fact of how long i had actually been living in this country, of which i replied and put you in your place. and if what i said about thai t.v. soap operas to which a lot of other posters agree with and that is taken as being condescending and offensive( ie being a prick) rather than an observation then so be it.

Hello again, TF. You want to set the record straight? That's fine by me. But let's start by being honest. You say that I "questioned the fact of how long (you) had actually been living in this country." That is a boldfaced lie. I actually went and checked that little dialogue we had and I said nothing of the sort. You brought that up on your own without me even asking about it. You want to criticize me, that's your right. But don't go about making up stuff to support your position. As for Thai soaps, go back and read what I posted on this thread about that.

[tigerfish]

lets put the record straight shall we mr. berkshire. you didnt call me on anything, you as in a perfect example of why i started this thread, assumed that i did not understand a word of thai without even knowing me. then questioned the fact of how long i had actually been living in this country, of which i replied and put you in your place. and if what i said about thai t.v. soap operas to which a lot of other posters agree with and that is taken as being condescending and offensive( ie being a prick) rather than an observation then so be it.

Hello again, TF. You want to set the record straight? That's fine by me. But let's start by being honest. You say that I "questioned the fact of how long (you) had actually been living in this country." That is a boldfaced lie. I actually went and checked that little dialogue we had and I said nothing of the sort. You brought that up on your own without me even asking about it. You want to criticize me, that's your right. But don't go about making up stuff to support your position. As for Thai soaps, go back and read what I posted on this thread about that.

my apologies mr. berkshire.

you did not question me about the fact of how long i had been in thailand, but did question the fact on whether i knew any thai. now was that in some way linked to the fact that you thought that i may not of been in thailand that long. i dont know! only you can answer that.

it was though the reason i started this thread. the way you posted your reply got me to thinking about the amount of times that people on this forum try to take the higher ground without even knowing anything about the other person. calling on length of time spent here, understanding the language and culture, understanding things that you do and dont that may be acceptable in your own country, but not here. we are all different, have our own opinions and had a variation of experiences.

some are clever with words and can make others on this forum feel inferior just because of the way the present a response. why do they do this? maybe its just to fill a void in their own meaningless existence.

i can only feel that such members like this will eventually feel more at home in another part of this forum once the post count reaches a certain number.

and for those of you that have reached such a place and take such a stance when posting, you know who you are.

[somtampet]

Well, Mr. Tigerfish, after just reading your opening comments, I must say that your perception of what this forum is may be a tad naïve. You're right in that this forum could be a useful source of information for some topics. But unfortunately, it's often hi-jacked by disgruntled lowlifes who believe that by attacking Thai's and the Thai way, it somehow improves their social standing. It doesn't. There are many of us here who are offended by that and will make our feelings known. If you have a problem with that, then I'm sorry (well, not really).

Frankly, the amount of time someone has spent in Thailand doesn't really mean squat to me. It's the substance of what you're saying. I see a direct correlation between someone's lot in life (i.e., financial situation, relationships, professional status, etc.) and their attitude towards Thailand. In short, the more the expat's life sucks, the more he complains and has negative views. Further, expats who have no Thai language skills, only hangs out with fellow expats (and their bargirl wife/GF and her impoverished family), and doesn't interact with normal Thai's, have zero credibility when discussing anything about Thai's and Thailand. They haven't a clue. TV seems to be inundated with these types of expats.

I have met many english teachers and friends who are not high wage earners and they do like Thailand but they do have a possitive view of Thailand. But then they are not in the bar scene.

But its a nice thing to silence your debate partners to say if your not well of or have no means you complain about Thailand. So either admit to that or shut up. Good tactics.

I do have to agree that people who have loads of money that they would be more possible about Thailand but they would be more positive anywhere. However having complaints about something means you care and there is a difference between having valid points or wining.

I must say i'm now getting more and more income but its not really influencing how i look at Thailand. I still see the bad the good and the ugly.

You are saying that teachers are not in the bar scen???.So what do they do at weekends,play monopoly

[Berkshire]

lets put the record straight shall we mr. berkshire. you didnt call me on anything, you as in a perfect example of why i started this thread, assumed that i did not understand a word of thai without even knowing me. then questioned the fact of how long i had actually been living in this country, of which i replied and put you in your place. and if what i said about thai t.v. soap operas to which a lot of other posters agree with and that is taken as being condescending and offensive( ie being a prick) rather than an observation then so be it.

Hello again, TF. You want to set the record straight? That's fine by me. But let's start by being honest. You say that I "questioned the fact of how long (you) had actually been living in this country." That is a boldfaced lie. I actually went and checked that little dialogue we had and I said nothing of the sort. You brought that up on your own without me even asking about it. You want to criticize me, that's your right. But don't go about making up stuff to support your position. As for Thai soaps, go back and read what I posted on this thread about that.

my apologies mr. berkshire.

you did not question me about the fact of how long i had been in thailand, but did question the fact on whether i knew any thai. now was that in some way linked to the fact that you thought that i may not of been in thailand that long. i dont know! only you can answer that.

it was though the reason i started this thread. the way you posted your reply got me to thinking about the amount of times that people on this forum try to take the higher ground without even knowing anything about the other person. calling on length of time spent here, understanding the language and culture, understanding things that you do and dont that may be acceptable in your own country, but not here. we are all different, have our own opinions and had a variation of experiences.

some are clever with words and can make others on this forum feel inferior just because of the way the present a response. why do they do this? maybe its just to fill a void in their own meaningless existence.

i can only feel that such members like this will eventually feel more at home in another part of this forum once the post count reaches a certain number.

and for those of you that have reached such a place and take such a stance when posting, you know who you are.

Apology accepted. And I appreciate the explanation as to where you're coming from. Everybody's certainly entitled to an opinion--I don't have a problem with that. But often times, some people take liberties with this "right" to unfairly attack whole groups of people whether they realize they're doing it or not. You are by no means the worst offender--there are others here who have nothing but negative things to say about the Thai's, pretty much all the time. So I feel it only fitting that I weigh in occasionally to give the Thai's at least some voice. I've been a lurker for a long time and just never had the inclination nor the time to post. I've got a little more time nowadays, but even then, don't spend all of my days and nights here. More power to you...but as Vito Corleone used to say, "as long as your interest doesn't conflict with mine," or words to that effect.