The, I Have Been Here Longer Than You! Mentality.

[tigerfish]

we are all in the same boat as far as im concerned, whether we have thai wives/husbands, partners girlfriends, whatever!

so whats the big deal?

this is a public forum used mostly by the ex-pat/ tourist population that happen to be all staying here in the LOS, old, young, male and female. we are here to help each other arent we?

so why is it that when some topics get heated and the topic of discussion gets pulled to one side, the how long have you even been/if you dont like it/ do you even live in thailand, card get played.

it occurred today in a thread that i was replying to(no disrespect to the poster ) but i just replied as honestly as i could based on my 10 years or so experience that i have stayed in this country. everyones witnessed different things , good or bad its a learning curve for all of us.

there always seems to an underlying current of people though, on this forum that think they are way above the norm and know everything there is to say about what goes on in this place.

it isnt necessarily so "things they are a changing" as the great bob dillon once wrote and sang. not everything is the same as it was when i once set foot on the tarmac at don muang and it doesnt look that trend is going to end!

so discuss and debate, please.

Edited July 30, 2010 by tigerfish

[moe666]

I think it is just human nature, someone wants to be on top and by thinking they are special because of many post on Thaivisa, long time in country they make fools of themselves. I had a dust up on another forum with a guy who thought he knew it all about wages paid at Internationl schools. Well he had worked at some cheap places and didn't understand there are afew professional schools that pay there staff a very good wage.

I sure wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Edited July 30, 2010 by moe666

[rizla]

I find it`s not how long you`ve been here....more of what you have between your ears and not your legs....

[Familyonthemove]

Yes - I agree with you (even though you've only been here 10 years:D ) ..... and it's not only on TV. When I meet other expats, one of the first questions is 'how long have been here?', and the answer is sometimes met with a sneer if it's is less than a decade or two.

From my point of view I often find that people who have moved around and seen a bit of the world have a wider, more balanced perspective on things.

And the 'if you don't like it hear why don't you go home' retort must be the most unhelpful response anyone can give to someone's query or complaint.

If you don't lke people raising uncomfortable issues,, why don't you move to a different form' may be more appropriate.

And for the recortd, I like it here .... just wish the sad bin-bomber would sod off to a different place!

[IanForbes]

it doesn't mean a thing, tigerfish. Some people just have closed minds no matter how long they live anywhere. They can't see the forest for the trees being in the way.

[Tod Daniels]

I concur with your post. .. But with the caveat that things are not always what they seem to be on the surface. Now that statement could be as true in (fill in the country of your choice) as it is in what I refer to as the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

Sometimes it takes a while for the 'rose-colored glasses' to come off, and for foreigners who live here to see that this is just another country; full of people both good and bad, nothing more nothing less.

I think a LOT hasta do with the HUGE language barrier. That fact in and of itself forces people who can't speak thai to congregate in certain areas in the country. Areas which by a large degree aren't really a good representation of the country as a whole. This tends to isolate them from thailand the country, often times giving them more than a skewed perspective on things .

I still consider myself a 'newbie' here, yet I passed my 5th year anniversary some time ago.

While my penchant for what is known on the forum as; 'thai-bashing' is certainly no secret, if the truth were to be told; I have FAR more thai friends than I do foreign ones.

Granted, some of the things that thais do, I still find hard to wrap my mind around, but last time I checked, this is their country so I try to 'suck it up' and take it in stride as best I can .

It's the same when I meet foreigners, I try to deal with what ever 'take' they happen to have on thailand. As long as it doesn't impact me or my life, I don't care one way or the other . ..

Good post. ..

I sincerely hope it doesn't get derailed by 'experts' on all thingz thai, of which I am most definitely NOT . ..

Edited July 30, 2010 by tod-daniels

[Puccini]

I find it`s not how long you`ve been here...

I agree. I don't know what I should call it, a question of character, adaptability, or whatever. Talking about people assigned by a Western company to work at their subsidiary in Thailand, I have seen men go bonkers within three months and had to be shipped back home, others were still of sound mind after 20 years.

[kikoman]

I love Thailand and its people, I get this wait till you have been here a while and you will see the LOS for what it really is or you are a Newbie, or you have been on the forum for only a year. I was in Thailand almost a decade before I became a member of the forum.

It is not a question of how long you been here, but how long you have had an open mind here in the LOS. Where do you live in a Thai village or in the Falang enclaves.

Do you meet the people of this land other than Bar Girls, do you interact with Thais other then Bar Girls.

I have had nothing but good experiences with the Thai people, Never met a bad one outside of the tourist cities, Some that I do not care to be around because they drink to much.

Because I do not agree with the anti Thai slant of many on this forum, I get those you are naive or a newbie, open your eyes take off your blinders, there are many fine things in this country and most of your know it, that why you are still here!

Cheers:

[bkkjames]

I am just glad Tod finally figured out how to use the smiley thingy

[Garry9999]

I find it`s not how long you`ve been here...

I agree. I don't know what I should call it, a question of character, adaptability, or whatever. Talking about people assigned by a Western company to work at their subsidiary in Thailand, I have seen men go bonkers within three months and had to be shipped back home, others were still of sound mind after 20 years.

It's hard to take ThaiVisa general topics too seriously.

Try explaining that almost all Thai men pay sin sot (and in many cases a considerable amount), and you get greeted with "don't pay them a single satang, it's a rip off'.

On the subject of allowances for wife or girl friend. Many Thais give their entire salary to their wife, and their wife gives them an allowance. Yet here, many seem to think that a few thousand baht per month should keep their girl happy.

Then there's members who seem to believe that they have actually emigrated to Thailand, even though they have to go through the visa extension thing every 12 months.

My wife has emigrated to Australia, she has exactly the same rights has I do in Australia, when we come to Thailand and stay at our house that I paid for, I am a guest in the country, I can except that, many here can't.

I chose to leave Thailand earlier this year, for many reasons, but I do hope to come back one day.

[zzaa09]

No...we're not all in the same boat. Everyone and every situation from the next.

[zzaa09]

I think it is just human nature, someone wants to be on top and by thinking they are special because of many post on Thaivisa, long time in country they make fools of themselves. I had a dust up on another forum with a guy who thought he knew it all about wages paid at Internationl schools. Well he had worked at some cheap places and didn't understand there are afew professional schools that pay there staff a very good wage.

I sure wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Some do {lose sleep}, though. This conditioned and very destructive drive to compete at all cost. That being said - I have most of ya beat. I was born and raised in SE Asia {to good all-Farang parents} and have lived here, in particular Thailand, for a better part of 40 years. So there! :lol:

[Ulysses G.]

A lot of the long-time expats are loonies who could not fit in at home - as are a lot of the new ones - but, there are a lot of things about Thailand that are only realized with experience, because the Thai mentality is so different from the West.

There is no way that someone who has only been here a couple of years can have much of an understanding of the intricacies of the Thai culture and politics - no matter how clever they may be. In fact, the really wise old-timer farangs (IMHO) say that the longer you've been here, the more you realize that that we will never understand completely.

However, if one does a lot of pertinent reading, learns the language and makes a real effort, they can make some inroads that only come with time - but being here longer than someone else, certainly does not guarantee that one knows what one is talking about..

[Valentine]

Having been here for quite a while I am still constantly amazed about what I don't know. I accept that even if I lived here for a 100 years, speak, read, write Thai & Lao perfectly, I will never fully understand the true nature of the Thai people. However, this is an attraction for me, to be able to continually explore & discover the many aspects which Thai life has to offer.

[lingnoi1977]

Tigerfish et al:

I have been in and out of Thailand for many years and now reside permanently in Chiangmai. It was only when I became a permanent resident recently did I bother subscribing to TV. So, I am a relative Newbie by TV standards but not so generally.

I have always thought it was a bit of a "club". The Chiangmai Forum, where I do most of my research is chock-a-block of old time loonies who I am sure are genuinely lovely people. The way I see it is this: better to be on the wrong side of their pomposity and arrogance than experience it first hand in the pub don't you think?

I personally use the Forums to educate myself and help others if I can.

[robblok]

I am just glad Tod finally figured out how to use the smiley thingy

Yea the guys is a world of knowledge unlike some other posters

But then again every place needs a clown and I have to admit you fill that role real good :jap:

[robblok]

Having been here for quite a while I am still constantly amazed about what I don't know. I accept that even if I lived here for a 100 years, speak, read, write Thai & Lao perfectly, I will never fully understand the true nature of the Thai people. However, this is an attraction for me, to be able to continually explore & discover the many aspects which Thai life has to offer.

I think humans no mater what country they are from will always amaze you. You count generalize all Thais or all foreigners.

If i just look at my own country how different people are there, then it would surely be the same all over the world.

I must say i do generalize too because it does help but you have to realize there will always be exceptions.

[carmine]

Some people never attempt to learn, try, adapt to any of the local culture. You gain your knowledge and experience by the way you live you life and conduct yourself here. At the end of the day some of the long term expats are interesting and knowledgable people and others are dissolutioned and bitter.

I really don't think its important how long you have been living here its all about the knowledge and experience you have gained. That said, the ones that have lived here six months, think they know it all and everything is perfect here (bar the evil falang, forgetting that they are too ) are particularily nauseating.

[mark45y]

As a young man I always wanted to live on a sailboat. I read extensively about long voyages under sail in tall ships and it seemed like paradise to me. From 16 to 18 years of age I lived on an ocean racing sailboat and a square rigged chartered yacht. My socks were never dry. I never really felt clean as there was always salt on my skin. I was so tan people thought I was from a different country. My hands were so rough and calloused I could stick pins in my palms and feel no pain. When I walked on land I had a rolling bowlegged gait. Now sitting in my condo looking out over the Gulf of Thailand I think occasionally about buying a sailboat to live aboard. The feeling usually passes in an hour or two as my memories kick in.

In Thailand I have lived with a Thai family and my own Thai family. The Thai family were twin Mercedes driving middle to upper middle class executives in the airline industry.

My own family was composed of three go go dancers, two bar maidens and a singer at a Thai night club (the grouping lasted two years). I write a little Thai and speak enough to understand half of what is said.

My current woman understands one written word in English, YOU. She speaks a few words of English and we speak only Thai at home.

The only Falang I communicate with on a daily basis are on Thai Visa since I work for a Thai company with almost no English spoken at work.

I used to watch a bit of English TV till my satellite got struck by lightening last month.

I have been to places in Thailand and Asia denied to most Falang because of my Thai families and my service here in the Army 40 years ago.

I have had the advantage of seeing Asia change over the past 40 years. I also have 4 daughters and 3 ex wives. I have been surrounded by women and underwear hanging to dry all over the bathroom since I was a young man. I have lived in numerous countries and my education includes a degree in Anthropology.

I wonder at the people who post on TV that don’t live in Thailand. I also find it amazing that women from the west choose to live in Thailand. I find it even more amazing that women in the west who don’t live in Thailand post on Thai Visa.

In most things I have observed Thailand is a male dominated society that is run by women.

I also feel strongly that in the future Thailand will be rescued as a country by a Thai woman.

[philw]

As a young man I always wanted to live on a sailboat. I read extensively about long voyages under sail in tall ships and it seemed like paradise to me. From 16 to 18 years of age I lived on an ocean racing sailboat and a square rigged chartered yacht. My socks were never dry. I never really felt clean as there was always salt on my skin. I was so tan people thought I was from a different country. My hands were so rough and calloused I could stick pins in my palms and feel no pain. When I walked on land I had a rolling bowlegged gait. Now sitting in my condo looking out over the Gulf of Thailand I think occasionally about buying a sailboat to live aboard. The feeling usually passes in an hour or two as my memories kick in.

In Thailand I have lived with a Thai family and my own Thai family. The Thai family were twin Mercedes driving middle to upper middle class executives in the airline industry.

My own family was composed of three go go dancers, two bar maidens and a singer at a Thai night club (the grouping lasted two years). I write a little Thai and speak enough to understand half of what is said.

My current woman understands one written word in English, YOU. She speaks a few words of English and we speak only Thai at home.

The only Falang I communicate with on a daily basis are on Thai Visa since I work for a Thai company with almost no English spoken at work.

I used to watch a bit of English TV till my satellite got struck by lightening last month.

I have been to places in Thailand and Asia denied to most Falang because of my Thai families and my service here in the Army 40 years ago.

I have had the advantage of seeing Asia change over the past 40 years. I also have 4 daughters and 3 ex wives. I have been surrounded by women and underwear hanging to dry all over the bathroom since I was a young man. I have lived in numerous countries and my education includes a degree in Anthropology.

I wonder at the people who post on TV that don’t live in Thailand. I also find it amazing that women from the west choose to live in Thailand. I find it even more amazing that women in the west who don’t live in Thailand post on Thai Visa.

In most things I have observed Thailand is a male dominated society that is run by women.

I also feel strongly that in the future Thailand will be rescued as a country by a Thai woman.

Great post !!!

philw

[Familyonthemove]

Thanks Mark - Great PostX2 ...

[Loz]

I do think there is the " nesting doll" effect in thailand. Some people keep opening the doll looking for the next revelation while others are content to lay down with the doll they are with and ask no questions. You can't make people want to know the gritty truth. Fact is, everyone's experience is unique to them.

My only major grip with the culture is that it is often applied in a " This is thai culture, all other cultures must be abandoned on arrival lest you be considered ignorant" approach.

I was very happy to "go along with" thai culture for the first 2-3 years but lately I have seen more and more intolerance of other cultures which makes me question why I should pay so much attention to theirs. And yes, that also has prompted me to towards counting the days before I leave.

Its a lovely place but until it has the interlectual revoloution that the west is still in the midst of (post victorianism) it will be a less interesting place to me than those countries who have learned not to stifle progress both interlectual and political.

[Huey]

I don't think the amount of time you have been here accounts for as much as WHERE you have been, and with WHOM. Because these 2 things as well as your own personality and mental capacity will shape your views about Thailand more than anything else. I have seen some folks here for 2 years more clued in than guys that where here for 15 or 20. Just depends.

And furthermore. No, we are not all in the same boat. How could you even say that? When Thais go to America, do they hang out with the Koreans, Cambodians, and Chinese because "Hey we are all Asians in the US we are all in the same boat!" hel_l no. Heck I bet they would only hang out with the same kinds of Thais that they normally would in Thailand.

So why would you think western expats would be any different?

[mahtin]

interlectual revoloution

I just can't resist bashing the English teachers though.

[yabaaaa]

No I dont think it does, its like most things in life some people can see and understand things quickly and learn everything fast others dont doesnt matter if they've been here a lifetime.

[somtampet]

I find it`s not how long you`ve been here....more of what you have between your ears and not your legs....

I would have thought that both is ok,as my gf wouldnt stand for just having a big brain :jap:

[somtampet]

interlectual revoloution

I just can't resist bashing the English teachers though.

Think you will get bashed for that comment,as the topic says,you not been here long time tilak lol.They dont take too kindly for that post.Dont forget though most teachers wouldnt go on a forum in Europe as they are far too busy working.

[somtampet]

I concur with your post. .. But with the caveat that things are not always what they seem to be on the surface. Now that statement could be as true in (fill in the country of your choice) as it is in what I refer to as the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

Sometimes it takes a while for the 'rose-colored glasses' to come off, and for foreigners who live here to see that this is just another country; full of people both good and bad, nothing more nothing less.

I think a LOT hasta do with the HUGE language barrier. That fact in and of itself forces people who can't speak thai to congregate in certain areas in the country. Areas which by a large degree aren't really a good representation of the country as a whole. This tends to isolate them from thailand the country, often times giving them more than a skewed perspective on things .

I still consider myself a 'newbie' here, yet I passed my 5th year anniversary some time ago.

While my penchant for what is known on the forum as; 'thai-bashing' is certainly no secret, if the truth were to be told; I have FAR more thai friends than I do foreign ones.

Granted, some of the things that thais do, I still find hard to wrap my mind around, but last time I checked, this is their country so I try to 'suck it up' and take it in stride as best I can .

It's the same when I meet foreigners, I try to deal with what ever 'take' they happen to have on thailand. As long as it doesn't impact me or my life, I don't care one way or the other . ..

Good post. ..

I sincerely hope it doesn't get derailed by 'experts' on all thingz thai, of which I am most definitely NOT . ..

Very good post,well thought out.If the uk had made it british first i would be still there,so THAI RAK THAI is number one for me.There does seem to be a dark cloud of racism affecting the country though,as i have noticed this since the red shirt debacle,many farangs following the thais like uneducated monkies

[mark45y]

I do think there is the " nesting doll" effect in thailand. Some people keep opening the doll looking for the next revelation while others are content to lay down with the doll they are with and ask no questions. You can't make people want to know the gritty truth. Fact is, everyone's experience is unique to them.

My only major grip with the culture is that it is often applied in a " This is thai culture, all other cultures must be abandoned on arrival lest you be considered ignorant" approach.

I was very happy to "go along with" thai culture for the first 2-3 years but lately I have seen more and more intolerance of other cultures which makes me question why I should pay so much attention to theirs. And yes, that also has prompted me to towards counting the days before I leave.

Its a lovely place but until it has the interlectual revoloution that the west is still in the midst of (post victorianism) it will be a less interesting place to me than those countries who have learned not to stifle progress both interlectual and political.

Why should you pay attention to theirs? You’re kidding right.

I am sure many headhunters from the South Seas upon migrating to England asked themselves the same question.

OK to lop off a few heads in our country. Why should England be any different?

You pay attention to their culture because you are in their country.

But you do bring up an interesting point. I notice a lot of Foreign posters are of a mind to educate Thai’s to the benefits of their superior culture.

Thai’s have been teaching by rote for centuries, everyone knows it is an inferior way of teaching. I would imagine teachers from all over the world feel it is their responsibility to teach Thai’s a better way.

When I first came to Asia I noticed Vietnamese saw backwards. They sit on top of the board and saw between their legs with the handle of the saw facing away from them and the end of the saw between their legs.

If Thais or any other Asians want to do things different it’s no sweat off my back.

[473geo]

If one can learn the Thai language, and develop solid relationships, a much more intricate understanding can be obtained. These attributes facilitate a view beneath the veneer of Thailand. The longer you live in Thailand usually increases your language skills and broadens your social circle, therefore enhancing the possibility of presenting a more balanced view than a recent arrival.