The, I Have Been Here Longer Than You! Mentality.

[somtampet]

If one can learn the Thai language, and develop solid relationships, a much more intricate understanding can be obtained. These attributes facilitate a view beneath the veneer of Thailand. The longer you live in Thailand usually increases your language skills and broadens your social circle, therefore enhancing the possibility of presenting a more balanced view than a recent arrival.

Bloody hel_l mate,i understand more thai than them posh words.Are you from Bangkok by any chance???

[Changian]

The 'I have been here longer than you and therefore I am right and you are wrong' mentality only holds true if I have been here longer than you. If I haven't, then it is a pile of crap and should be ignored.

[villagefarang]

Try looking at it from a different perspective. Lets say you have been at your chosen career for twenty or thirty years and some new kid come along and tells you, that you have your head deeply implanted in that notorious place where the sun doesn't shine. After a few days or months on the job, he knows better than you. I would bet that it would take a whole lot of convincing before you were inclined to believe him.

With my tenure in Thailand going back to 1975, I'm also going to take a little convincing from the newbie, that he knows more than I do about my life experience in Thailand, than I do. I'm often amused at how little some know and how convinced they are that they know everything. The simple truth is that we all have different experiences here and there is no, one-size-fits-all explanation, for the farang quandary or predicament. What holds true for one, may not hold true for another.

Edited July 31, 2010 by villagefarang

[Ulysses G.]

If one can learn the Thai language, and develop solid relationships, a much more intricate understanding can be obtained. These attributes facilitate a view beneath the veneer of Thailand. The longer you live in Thailand usually increases your language skills and broadens your social circle, therefore enhancing the possibility of presenting a more balanced view than a recent arrival.

Bloody hel_l mate,i understand more thai than them posh words.

I am pretty sure that I agree with him.

[somtampet]

If one can learn the Thai language, and develop solid relationships, a much more intricate understanding can be obtained. These attributes facilitate a view beneath the veneer of Thailand. The longer you live in Thailand usually increases your language skills and broadens your social circle, therefore enhancing the possibility of presenting a more balanced view than a recent arrival.

Bloody hel_l mate,i understand more thai than them posh words.

I am pretty sure that I agree with him.

Only pretty sure lol.We must have a thread guessing what job he does lol.I vote for a politicion,speaks well but used to be a coal miner

[somtampet]

Try looking at it from a different perspective. Lets say you have been at your chosen career for twenty or thirty years and some new kid come along and tells you, that you have your head deeply implanted in that notorious place where the sun doesn't shine. After a few days or months on the job, he knows better than you. I would bet that it would take a whole lot of convincing before you were inclined to believe him.

With my tenure in Thailand going back to 1975, I'm also going to take a little convincing from the newbie, that he knows more than I do about my life experience in Thailand, than I do. I'm often amused at how little some know and how convinced they are that they know everything. The simple truth is that we all have different experiences here and there is no, one-size-fits-all explanation, for the farang quandary or predicament. What holds true for one, may not hold true for another.

Only maybe agreewith you.If you had lived in a remote village since 1975 you would know nothing about Thailand and the thai people.However someone that had lived here 10 years and travelled all over Thailnd would know more.

[Chunky1]

Try looking at it from a different perspective. Lets say you have been at your chosen career for twenty or thirty years and some new kid come along and tells you, that you have your head deeply implanted in that notorious place where the sun doesn't shine. After a few days or months on the job, he knows better than you. I would bet that it would take a whole lot of convincing before you were inclined to believe him.

With my tenure in Thailand going back to 1975, I'm also going to take a little convincing from the newbie, that he knows more than I do about my life experience in Thailand, than I do. I'm often amused at how little some know and how convinced they are that they know everything. The simple truth is that we all have different experiences here and there is no, one-size-fits-all explanation, for the farang quandary or predicament. What holds true for one, may not hold true for another.

Some people are better at life than others. For example, a 25 year old might already be very well off. Therefore, while you might have struggled through your life, it might be smooth sailing for someone else. The forthcoming horizon for them might be crystal clear.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Chunky1

[phutoie2]

Yep some people just know diddly squat, why only the other day a European guy who has lived in this amphur for over 20 years still would not believe me, that, now in town, we have our very own Bangkok Bank ATM, right next to the 108 shop.

Still insisted that the 20 km round trip to Wichien was the only option!.

Some folk eh!

[473geo]

Try looking at it from a different perspective. Lets say you have been at your chosen career for twenty or thirty years and some new kid come along and tells you, that you have your head deeply implanted in that notorious place where the sun doesn't shine. After a few days or months on the job, he knows better than you. I would bet that it would take a whole lot of convincing before you were inclined to believe him.

With my tenure in Thailand going back to 1975, I'm also going to take a little convincing from the newbie, that he knows more than I do about my life experience in Thailand, than I do. I'm often amused at how little some know and how convinced they are that they know everything. The simple truth is that we all have different experiences here and there is no, one-size-fits-all explanation, for the farang quandary or predicament. What holds true for one, may not hold true for another.

Only maybe agreewith you.If you had lived in a remote village since 1975 you would know nothing about Thailand and the thai people.However someone that had lived here 10 years and travelled all over Thailnd would know more.

I don't think the work parallel is correct, process develops in a work environment. Yesterdays practice in a rapidly changing work environment can be out of date, a new process may well be implemeted to obliterate old traditional thinking, a new employee who has relevant training is more current than the established worker. The traits, beliefs and general outlook of people take longer to change than a computer program, so actual experience of every day life is still relevant today.

Edited July 31, 2010 by 473geo

[ozzieovaseas]

I concur with your post. .. But with the caveat that things are not always what they seem to be on the surface. Now that statement could be as true in (fill in the country of your choice) as it is in what I refer to as the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

Sometimes it takes a while for the 'rose-colored glasses' to come off, and for foreigners who live here to see that this is just another country; full of people both good and bad, nothing more nothing less.

I think a LOT hasta do with the HUGE language barrier. That fact in and of itself forces people who can't speak thai to congregate in certain areas in the country. Areas which by a large degree aren't really a good representation of the country as a whole. This tends to isolate them from thailand the country, often times giving them more than a skewed perspective on things .

I still consider myself a 'newbie' here, yet I passed my 5th year anniversary some time ago.

While my penchant for what is known on the forum as; 'thai-bashing' is certainly no secret, if the truth were to be told; I have FAR more thai friends than I do foreign ones.

Granted, some of the things that thais do, I still find hard to wrap my mind around, but last time I checked, this is their country so I try to 'suck it up' and take it in stride as best I can .

It's the same when I meet foreigners, I try to deal with what ever 'take' they happen to have on thailand. As long as it doesn't impact me or my life, I don't care one way or the other . ..

Good post. ..

I sincerely hope it doesn't get derailed by 'experts' on all thingz thai, of which I am most definitely NOT . ..

Good post T.D and also to add i think thats a great attitude to take.

I'd say, by far, the greatest experience to be had whilest living in a country other than your own is the learning experience.

In the case where someone is to old to change their ways, to jaded or bitter, and/or to proud to learn...in which case they evidently already know it all...then the learning process is lost on them and made null and void..

They are the ones denying themselves of what could,would, and should be a great experience, which is a bit sad really...cant be to much fun being an expert and having to sit inside a condo all day posting their vast knowledge to all and sundry on Thaivisa

No matter how much i think i know I'd much sooner be out and about learning more new stuff...there's never a shortage here :jap:

[ozzieovaseas]

interlectual revoloution

I just can't resist bashing the English teachers though.

yeh i gotta admit, that is sanook at its finest

:cheesy:

[473geo]

Yep some people just know diddly squat, why only the other day a European guy who has lived in this amphur for over 20 years still would not believe me, that, now in town, we have our very own Bangkok Bank ATM, right next to the 108 shop.

Still insisted that the 20 km round trip to Wichien was the only option!.

Some folk eh!

Perhaps he enjoyed a trip away on his own.........and now you have ruined it!!!!

[Lancelot]

I think it is just human nature, someone wants to be on top and by thinking they are special because of many post on Thaivisa, long time in country they make fools of themselves. I had a dust up on another forum with a guy who thought he knew it all about wages paid at Internationl schools. Well he had worked at some cheap places and didn't understand there are afew professional schools that pay there staff a very good wage.

I sure wouldn't lose sleep over it.

I agree. Bragging rights.

When some one opines on their "long and vast" experience, I ponder: Does he have 20 years experience OR one years experience 20 times over

[473geo]

No I dont think it does, its like most things in life some people can see and understand things quickly and learn everything fast others dont doesnt matter if they've been here a lifetime.

The ones that don't learn fast are unlikely to be here a lifetime...............right?

[villagefarang]

Try looking at it from a different perspective. Lets say you have been at your chosen career for twenty or thirty years and some new kid come along and tells you, that you have your head deeply implanted in that notorious place where the sun doesn't shine. After a few days or months on the job, he knows better than you. I would bet that it would take a whole lot of convincing before you were inclined to believe him.

With my tenure in Thailand going back to 1975, I'm also going to take a little convincing from the newbie, that he knows more than I do about my life experience in Thailand, than I do. I'm often amused at how little some know and how convinced they are that they know everything. The simple truth is that we all have different experiences here and there is no, one-size-fits-all explanation, for the farang quandary or predicament. What holds true for one, may not hold true for another.

Some people are better at life than others. For example, a 25 year old might already be very well off. Therefore, while you might have struggled through your life, it might be smooth sailing for someone else. The forthcoming horizon for them might be crystal clear.

Things are always crystal clear when young and inexperienced. Nothing to cloud the dream, yet.

[villagefarang]

Only maybe agree with you.If you had lived in a remote village since 1975 you would know nothing about Thailand and the thai people.However someone that had lived here 10 years and travelled all over Thailand would know more.

I wonder why the new guys like to assume that the old timers aren't as up to date and relevant as they are, in addition to having more experience and been more places. Perhaps it is the clarity of biased misconceptions.

[lovelomsak]

The longer I stay here the more I realize everyone who comes here experiences different things and picks up on different things. So with that in mind I always find that no matter how long someone has been here I can learn from them and their experiences. So I feel we all have some understanding of the country but as one poster put it It depends on what you have done and with who what you have learnt.

Someone who spends all their time in Bangkok will have different knowledge than someone who lives in Khon Kaen or Mukdahan. Knowledge that will help you survive in Patttaya could possibly get you in trouble in Hat Yai.

What irks me is people who need to control conversations about things relating to Thailand by simply bullshitting and it is obvious they donot have a clue.I find this to be a strong trait by many guys here. and this trait has nothing to do with time spent here.

[Kwasaki]

No I dont think it does, its like most things in life some people can see and understand things quickly and learn everything fast others dont doesnt matter if they've been here a lifetime.

I agree with what has been said and yabaaa, you take what you want from here as an idividual.

It doesn't matter to me what people think and as long as your happy it doesn't really matter.

Have a laugh on me I saw everyone was posting abreviations which I dislike for the simple reason I don't know what some of them mean !!

LOS was everywhere I thought they were from Los Angeles or Laos and someone thought I was Trolling, I had to look that one up too !!

Edited July 31, 2010 by Kwasaki

[wolf5370]

While it can be argued that people pick up experience at different speeds and that some come with experience too (someone living in the UK, say, married to a Thai for 20 years or brought up by a Thai step mother and so on), the Op was talking about the 'attitude'. It seems to me, even if you are the font of all knowledge Thai, it is better to help when required and without being patronising - its is also important to realise that new blood can still learn things that old hands haven't yet, just because their experience is different. There really is no excuse for beeing boorish or condesending; either be helpful or shut up.

[Chunky1]

Try looking at it from a different perspective. Lets say you have been at your chosen career for twenty or thirty years and some new kid come along and tells you, that you have your head deeply implanted in that notorious place where the sun doesn't shine. After a few days or months on the job, he knows better than you. I would bet that it would take a whole lot of convincing before you were inclined to believe him.

With my tenure in Thailand going back to 1975, I'm also going to take a little convincing from the newbie, that he knows more than I do about my life experience in Thailand, than I do. I'm often amused at how little some know and how convinced they are that they know everything. The simple truth is that we all have different experiences here and there is no, one-size-fits-all explanation, for the farang quandary or predicament. What holds true for one, may not hold true for another.

Some people are better at life than others. For example, a 25 year old might already be very well off. Therefore, while you might have struggled through your life, it might be smooth sailing for someone else. The forthcoming horizon for them might be crystal clear.

Things are always crystal clear when young and inexperienced. Nothing to cloud the dream, yet.

many old timers refuse to admit that their misfortune was the result of their own poor decision making and planning. the want to play the victim role and believe that everyone is going to end up miserable like themselves.

[mahtin]

many old timers refuse to admit that their misfortune was the result of their own poor decision making and planning. the want to play the victim role and believe that everyone is going to end up miserable like themselves.

Not applicable to VF if you care to check him out.

Don't bother if you're easily jealous.

[villagefarang]

many old timers refuse to admit that their misfortune was the result of their own poor decision making and planning. the want to play the victim role and believe that everyone is going to end up miserable like themselves.

Not applicable to VF if you care to check him out.

Don't bother if you're easily jealous.

Wow, I have a fan. Thank you very much.

[mark45y]

Try looking at it from a different perspective. Lets say you have been at your chosen career for twenty or thirty years and some new kid come along and tells you, that you have your head deeply implanted in that notorious place where the sun doesn't shine. After a few days or months on the job, he knows better than you. I would bet that it would take a whole lot of convincing before you were inclined to believe him.

With my tenure in Thailand going back to 1975, I'm also going to take a little convincing from the newbie, that he knows more than I do about my life experience in Thailand, than I do. I'm often amused at how little some know and how convinced they are that they know everything. The simple truth is that we all have different experiences here and there is no, one-size-fits-all explanation, for the farang quandary or predicament. What holds true for one, may not hold true for another.

Some people are better at life than others. For example, a 25 year old might already be very well off. Therefore, while you might have struggled through your life, it might be smooth sailing for someone else. The forthcoming horizon for them might be crystal clear.

Things are always crystal clear when young and inexperienced. Nothing to cloud the dream, yet.

many old timers refuse to admit that their misfortune was the result of their own poor decision making and planning. the want to play the victim role and believe that everyone is going to end up miserable like themselves.

Ya, that's why you see so many 25 year old Generals in the Army.

[Berkshire]

Well, Mr. Tigerfish, after just reading your opening comments, I must say that your perception of what this forum is may be a tad naïve. You're right in that this forum could be a useful source of information for some topics. But unfortunately, it's often hi-jacked by disgruntled lowlifes who believe that by attacking Thai's and the Thai way, it somehow improves their social standing. It doesn't. There are many of us here who are offended by that and will make our feelings known. If you have a problem with that, then I'm sorry (well, not really).

Frankly, the amount of time someone has spent in Thailand doesn't really mean squat to me. It's the substance of what you're saying. I see a direct correlation between someone's lot in life (i.e., financial situation, relationships, professional status, etc.) and their attitude towards Thailand. In short, the more the expat's life sucks, the more he complains and has negative views. Further, expats who have no Thai language skills, only hangs out with fellow expats (and their bargirl wife/GF and her impoverished family), and doesn't interact with normal Thai's, have zero credibility when discussing anything about Thai's and Thailand. They haven't a clue. TV seems to be inundated with these types of expats.

[robblok]

Well, Mr. Tigerfish, after just reading your opening comments, I must say that your perception of what this forum is may be a tad naïve. You're right in that this forum could be a useful source of information for some topics. But unfortunately, it's often hi-jacked by disgruntled lowlifes who believe that by attacking Thai's and the Thai way, it somehow improves their social standing. It doesn't. There are many of us here who are offended by that and will make our feelings known. If you have a problem with that, then I'm sorry (well, not really).

Frankly, the amount of time someone has spent in Thailand doesn't really mean squat to me. It's the substance of what you're saying. I see a direct correlation between someone's lot in life (i.e., financial situation, relationships, professional status, etc.) and their attitude towards Thailand. In short, the more the expat's life sucks, the more he complains and has negative views. Further, expats who have no Thai language skills, only hangs out with fellow expats (and their bargirl wife/GF and her impoverished family), and doesn't interact with normal Thai's, have zero credibility when discussing anything about Thai's and Thailand. They haven't a clue. TV seems to be inundated with these types of expats.

I have met many english teachers and friends who are not high wage earners and they do like Thailand but they do have a possitive view of Thailand. But then they are not in the bar scene.

But its a nice thing to silence your debate partners to say if your not well of or have no means you complain about Thailand. So either admit to that or shut up. Good tactics.

I do have to agree that people who have loads of money that they would be more possible about Thailand but they would be more positive anywhere. However having complaints about something means you care and there is a difference between having valid points or wining.

I must say i'm now getting more and more income but its not really influencing how i look at Thailand. I still see the bad the good and the ugly.

[mark45y]

Well, Mr. Tigerfish, after just reading your opening comments, I must say that your perception of what this forum is may be a tad naïve. You're right in that this forum could be a useful source of information for some topics. But unfortunately, it's often hi-jacked by disgruntled lowlifes who believe that by attacking Thai's and the Thai way, it somehow improves their social standing. It doesn't. There are many of us here who are offended by that and will make our feelings known. If you have a problem with that, then I'm sorry (well, not really).

Frankly, the amount of time someone has spent in Thailand doesn't really mean squat to me. It's the substance of what you're saying. I see a direct correlation between someone's lot in life (i.e., financial situation, relationships, professional status, etc.) and their attitude towards Thailand. In short, the more the expat's life sucks, the more he complains and has negative views. Further, expats who have no Thai language skills, only hangs out with fellow expats (and their bargirl wife/GF and her impoverished family), and doesn't interact with normal Thai's, have zero credibility when discussing anything about Thai's and Thailand. They haven't a clue. TV seems to be inundated with these types of expats.

By any statistics I can find most of the population of Thailand would fit the definition of impoverished.

There are roughly 2.8 million prostitutes in Thailand that in itself is a substantial number of the population. Count the numbers of people who’s income is derived from the prostitution business, i.e. hairdressers, clothing sales, beverage and ice sales and so on and it becomes a substantial economic force effecting large numbers of people. I would think one would be correct in saying that prostitutes and their families are a normal part of Thailand.

Add to those numbers the divorced women on the prowl for a foreign man and the number becomes higher.

Perhaps if one does not know about that segment of the population he has less than 100% knowledge about Thailand.

Everyone who is not a prostitute in Thailand is not normal and everyone who is, is not abnormal.

I know an old guy living on a pension, he speaks Thai. He met his wife when he was an airman at Utapao in 1970. She was a bargirl. He was a GI. He’s been living here ever since. He knows quite a bit about Thailand although almost all of his friends are old service buddies and old bar girls.

[zzaa09]

Having been here for quite a while I am still constantly amazed about what I don't know. I accept that even if I lived here for a 100 years, speak, read, write Thai & Lao perfectly, I will never fully understand the true nature of the Thai people. However, this is an attraction for me, to be able to continually explore & discover the many aspects which Thai life has to offer.

Perhaps, it is the nature in which most Western-types are hard wired - to extend a political dynamic into our existence. Giving something {and everything} too much analytical dimension and over thought. Projecting comparatives and superlatives at any opportunity. The disconnections and vacant intuition come to play and generally block our ability to observe how things are....not as we want them to be or expect them to develop. It's just life, not dogma.

[canuckamuck]

Tomorrow will be the first day of my eighth year in Thailand, so at the end of 7 years (7 being the divine number of completion) I feel it is appropriate to share my deepest thoughts and most valuable advice about Thais and Thai culture.

Thanks I am glad I got that off my chest.

[Berkshire]

Well, Mr. Tigerfish, after just reading your opening comments, I must say that your perception of what this forum is may be a tad naïve. You're right in that this forum could be a useful source of information for some topics. But unfortunately, it's often hi-jacked by disgruntled lowlifes who believe that by attacking Thai's and the Thai way, it somehow improves their social standing. It doesn't. There are many of us here who are offended by that and will make our feelings known. If you have a problem with that, then I'm sorry (well, not really).

Frankly, the amount of time someone has spent in Thailand doesn't really mean squat to me. It's the substance of what you're saying. I see a direct correlation between someone's lot in life (i.e., financial situation, relationships, professional status, etc.) and their attitude towards Thailand. In short, the more the expat's life sucks, the more he complains and has negative views. Further, expats who have no Thai language skills, only hangs out with fellow expats (and their bargirl wife/GF and her impoverished family), and doesn't interact with normal Thai's, have zero credibility when discussing anything about Thai's and Thailand. They haven't a clue. TV seems to be inundated with these types of expats.

I have met many english teachers and friends who are not high wage earners and they do like Thailand but they do have a possitive view of Thailand. But then they are not in the bar scene.

But its a nice thing to silence your debate partners to say if your not well of or have no means you complain about Thailand. So either admit to that or shut up. Good tactics.

I do have to agree that people who have loads of money that they would be more possible about Thailand but they would be more positive anywhere. However having complaints about something means you care and there is a difference between having valid points or wining.

I must say i'm now getting more and more income but its not really influencing how i look at Thailand. I still see the bad the good and the ugly.

This is, quite honestly, what I have observed in real life...not just on TV. It's sort of like observing that most people in prison are from impoverished backgrounds. Does that mean that all folks in prison are poor? No. Does it mean that poor people are inherently more dishonest and have a higher propensity for crime? No. Not all expat chronic complainers are dirt poor or have personal issues. But I believe most are and do. There are always exceptions.

[zzaa09]

Its a lovely place but until it has the interlectual revoloution that the west is still in the midst of (post victorianism) it will be a less interesting place to me than those countries who have learned not to stifle progress both interlectual and political.

Might be easier to suggest that such intellectualism amongst one civilisation can't be compared with the next. Perhaps {in this case}, Thais do possess a different sort of intellect. Certainly not of the variety that you would recognize as such. But to mark your cultural version of what passes as a higher intellect, thought process and connection to what a standard might be, is quite backward. There are no such beasts as standards and absolutes as we crave the acceptance and the desire to find ourselves superior. Careful observations might suggest that there is really nothing that exceptional, extraordinary, or evolved about a Western/Occidental character - you've naturally been conditioned to find things in such a way, as you know nothing else. Humility would be your friend, less trashing this ever-present trait.