I Bought A New Tiger Boxer 250Rs

[HDRIDER]

Guys

Let me start this way, when I buy a new bike no matter what the cost price is, half or double I expect the bike to run from day one, what is this all about that they have good mechanic and will take the bike back to the factory, for me it just show that they don’t have a clue how to build a bike, all the bikes I have bought new in Thailand I have never had a problem so I had to leave the bike for days, my last few Yamaha’s I have never had a problem, that’s how a bike should be when you buy one. I know that the people owning one of the bikes we are talking about don’t agree with me, maybe go as far and say but it’s cheap, yes right if you want to be without a bike.

Dear HDRIDER,

If we follow your idea, than Harley-Davidson sucks big time, I know a Harley-Davidson rider who wanted to pickup his H-D Nightster 1200 which not even wanted to start at the official dealer... They did needed a few days to figure out what was wrong.

With the H-D coming with somewhat bigger price-tag, you would believe they tested the bike before they let somebody travel 800km to pickup his bike? Did they after they “fixed” the bike offered any compensation? Did they give a free or extra t-shirt, sticker or key hanger? Maybe a full fuel tank as compensation for the new owner needed to travel twice? No to all...

In my eyes Tiger offers currently the best motorcycle if it comes to service and price... Real value for what you buy, maybe it will not make your neighbor jealous or get the babe you always wanted... But when a sexy babe can drop you like a stone, you still can count on the service from Tiger...

Did i ever say anything about Harley????

just because you and other love to BS Harleys

BTW my one i have had it for 6 years and its a 2001 model and i have NEVER had a problem i was talking about small bikes, you should know that new Harleys dont have many problems like they used to have but hey it shows now i can see.

[HDRIDER]

I cant even understand that you started compere HD to Tiger??? is that they way you see bikes Richard then just stay with tiger

[thomo]

Thomo, you make me laugh so much that I fall from my chair. If you would only know the truth. But yes, dream on – buy that motorcycle with a Japanese, German, or even American brand name sticker on it. And ride around like you have an actual Japanese, German, or American motorcycle...

You don't. But the producers have to meet the quality control and orders from the big boys don't they. For example the Honda CBR150... produced by APHonda, a Thai owned subsidiary of the Honda Corp. Much like a franchise, they have to meet the quality of Honda don't they?

Please correct if I'm wrong, and that for example, Honda Corporation, would have no control over the APHonda subsidiary company.

Edited August 5, 2010 by thomo

[Tigersachsclub]

I think it was the OP's intention to share his experience of what has happened on his specific Boxer 250RS..i can't see him writing anywhere that all Tiger Bikes come with a fault, nor is this the case. Even my feedback was merely covering" in the unlikely event of a faulty issue" which in his case was a wrong set clutch, neutral gear and the headlight being wrong set.

The forgotten Key was actually a silly thing to happen that could have been rectified in 10 min if someone was to phone the right person at Tiger.

But with all that has been written it does not reflect the norm ...nor is it a good thing to generalise some smaller clitches to the entire brand . Often people's approach to Tiger Bikes is" i don't know it therefor i don't like it" ...but reading all this comments i also see how many people run around with closed eyes....because if they were open than all those who have never seen a Tiger Boxer have also never seen a Thai Police Boxer???

@HD-riders comment , i sincerely agree that a bike is to be received in complete and full working ...generally the bike of CMX is working but some settings were wrong. The more serious matter was actually the matching nr and the dlt ...but that was rectified by Tiger ( and in a swift manner). Recalling HD's that come for a price about 15times or more higher than a Tiger Boxer i am certain they have it a lot harder to explain why things aren't checked & received properly.

@Livinlos, the Kwaker dealer in nakwan is also a Tiger dealer...so i went with my Boxer for the 3000km service all was working fine when i got there...after the service the clutch was set as CMX's the neutral was unable to be found plus the rearbrake was not working . Told Tiger about this crappy Service and they picked up my Boxer the following day fixed it and 2 days later i had it back ( my bike was taken from nakwan to samutprakarn and back to nakwan ...appr 500km). This is a big Kawa dealer that has a good selection on bikes & big bikes and a fairly good reputation...but as you can see things go wrong....and they don't only go wrong on tiger bikes but also on a bike from any other brand.. but i doubt that Honda/Yamaha/Kawa would take a bike to factory to fix it in the event that the dealer/service center is messing things up , or do they?

@nev check out the police boxer in your area( ask him with a smile and you sure can check it or even have a little spin on it- i did that when i first was interested on a Boxer) it is almost the same as the boxer 250 , with the exception of displacement, upside down forks & "tsukigi racing" exhaust & alu swingarm.

@troehr ,good luck on your cbr 150 so what kind of bike did you look for a sportsbike or an allrounder??? The Boxer and the CBR150 is not alike . I think CMX wanted a different bike ( not a sportsbike) and a bike that has not been discontinued. Do you think a Honda Dealer cares if you buy a Honda or not??? Not the ones i know...and i know more than a few of them. If you had read this thread thoroughly than you could see that there was a nr mismatch for the dlt rego...this was the main reason why the bike went to Tigers Factory again...in fact the boxer is built so simple and any side-of-the-road shop could fix it ,as parts from other brands do also interchange you will not lack spares either ...in the wort case scenario the spare would have to be shipped to wherever you are...take a day or two .

@ richard-bkk...nice one, i have no probs about HD but why precisely a HD Biker criticises the receiving of a fraction of cost Tiger Boxer while precisely the same also happens on a HD ??? You are right the Babe may want to see something different...but than again if you take the tiger label off and put up the Cagiva F4 label how would people approach it? I think very differently.

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

Hi Mbox,

I'm just wondering, if memory serves me well I can recall that Proton Malaysia (Proton was once owner of the prestigious MV Agusta brand name) had shares in Tiger Motorcycles. This is of course a very very long time ago, and a lot of things happened I'm not aware of, but what I know is that Proton Malaysia sold all matters concerning motorcycle production and MV Agusta and associated brand names to a Italian investment group, now not so long ago Harley-Davidson bought MV Agusta with all associated brand names and legal matters...

So is Harley-Davidson now also partner in Tiger Motor Co. Ltd....

Interesting analysis Richard....bloody he_ll do i have to rename my website Tiger/Sachs Club into Tiger/Harley/Sachs Club now?

Honestly i don't think there is a partnership now...but i really don't know the exact ties so who knows...maybe we see a "Harley Boxer 250RS" on the US market soon ???

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

Edited August 5, 2010 by Tigersachsclub

[Richard-BKK]

I think it was the OP's intention to share his experience of what has happened on his specific Boxer 250RS..i can't see him writing anywhere that all Tiger Bikes come with a fault, nor is this the case. Even my feedback was merely covering" in the unlikely event of a faulty issue" which in his case was a wrong set clutch, neutral gear and the headlight being wrong set.

The forgotten Key was actually a silly thing to happen that could have been rectified in 10 min if someone was to phone the right person at Tiger.

But with all that has been written it does not reflect the norm ...nor is it a good thing to generalise some smaller clitches to the entire brand . Often people's approach to Tiger Bikes is" i don't know it therefor i don't like it" ...but reading all this comments i also see how many people run around with closed eyes....because if they were open than all those who have never seen a Tiger Boxer have also never seen a Thai Police Boxer???

@HD-riders comment , i sincerely agree that a bike is to be received in complete and full working ...generally the bike of CMX is working but some settings were wrong. The more serious matter was actually the matching nr and the dlt ...but that was rectified by Tiger ( and in a swift manner). Recalling HD's that come for a price about 15times or more higher than a Tiger Boxer i am certain they have it a lot harder to explain why things aren't checked & received properly.

@Livinlos, the Kwaker dealer in nakwan is also a Tiger dealer...so i went with my Boxer for the 3000km service all was working fine when i got there...after the service the clutch was set as CMX's the neutral was unable to be found plus the rearbrake was not working . Told Tiger about this crappy Service and they picked up my Boxer the following day fixed it and 2 days later i had it back ( my bike was taken from nakwan to samutprakarn and back to nakwan ...appr 500km). This is a big Kawa dealer that has a good selection on bikes & big bikes and a fairly good reputation...but as you can see things go wrong....and they don't only go wrong on tiger bikes but also on a bike from any other brand.. but i doubt that Honda/Yamaha/Kawa would take a bike to factory to fix it in the event that the dealer/service center is messing things up , or do they?

@nev check out the police boxer in your area( ask him with a smile and you sure can check it or even have a little spin on it- i did that when i first was interested on a Boxer) it is almost the same as the boxer 250 , with the exception of displacement, upside down forks & "tsukigi racing" exhaust & alu swingarm.

@troehr ,good luck on your cbr 150 so what kind of bike did you look for a sportsbike or an allrounder??? The Boxer and the CBR150 is not alike . I think CMX wanted a different bike ( not a sportsbike) and a bike that has not been discontinued. Do you think a Honda Dealer cares if you buy a Honda or not??? Not the ones i know...and i know more than a few of them. If you had read this thread thoroughly than you could see that there was a nr mismatch for the dlt rego...this was the main reason why the bike went to Tigers Factory again...in fact the boxer is built so simple and any side-of-the-road shop could fix it ,as parts from other brands do also interchange you will not lack spares either ...in the wort case scenario the spare would have to be shipped to wherever you are...take a day or two .

@ richard-bkk...nice one, i have no probs about HD but why precisely a HD Biker criticises the receiving of a fraction of cost Tiger Boxer while precisely the same also happens on a HD ??? You are right the Babe may want to see something different...but than again if you take the tiger label off and put up the Cagiva F4 label how would people approach it? I think very differently.

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

Hi Mbox,

I'm just wondering, if memory serves me well I can recall that Proton Malaysia (Proton was once owner of the prestigious MV Agusta brand name) had shares in Tiger Motorcycles. This is of course a very very long time ago, and a lot of things happened I'm not aware of, but what I know is that Proton Malaysia sold all matters concerning motorcycle production and MV Agusta and associated brand names to a Italian investment group, now not so long ago Harley-Davidson bought MV Agusta with all associated brand names and legal matters...

So is Harley-Davidson now also partner in Tiger Motor Co. Ltd....

Interesting analysis Richard....bloody he_ll do i have to rename my website Tiger/Sachs Club into Tiger/Harley/Sachs Club now?

Honestly i don't think there is a partnership now...but i really don't know the exact ties so who knows...maybe we see a "Harley Boxer 250RS" on the US market soon ???

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

Hmm Mbox, I not believe that the Tiger Boxer 250 RS will appeal to the average Harley buyer, the engine is way too smooth. But maybe Tiger can remove the crankshaft-counterbalance for the American market....

[Tigersachsclub]

Why is it that an ability to repair motorcycles is considered a necessity and a rider who cannot is not worth considering. I admit despite having ridden a 200cc mini bullet all around India including to and around Dargeeling and Srinigar in the Himmalayas mostly with my daughter on bard also then throug Packistan and Iran to Turkey with a couple of years there and then to Europe and back to Turkey, I am more likely to ruin a bike by trying to fix it than make it better. I defy anyone to say that I know nothing about bikes though. Leave what has to be done to the experts as far as possible is my motto.

And yes it was a two stroke.

By the way I saw PB just before he left for the states and he was happy and progressing well with physio but had to return in part for speech therapy which of course would be hard to do here.

He has a long way to go but I am sure he will make it.

Harry, you are right it is not need to be a mechanic when being a Biker...i have some views on this and like to share it. While being a mechanic is certainly a good thing ,however,it is not really essential. But mechanical and technical knowledge is of big help specially here in thailand. I prefer to watch what the mechanic is doing on my Bike, thai mechanics often do shortcuts and while you don't need to be the mechanic you will be better off to see and understand what is done. In some European countries some basic technical knowledge is part of passing the Drivers licence .

On the other hand i had just a post on another forum someone who claimed to be mechanic got a new 110cc bike changed the Carb for higher power and speed and drove that brand new bike to the max during the first 270km some piston part was broken...telling him that he did silly wrong for not breaking in and putting the larger carb in ,he claimed he is mechanic and know what he is doing ...so as you can see would he have not been a mechanic he wouldn't d done some tuning and perhaps read an owners manual which should enlightened him of a break-in period...than he would have a full working 110cc bike now. But hey he is mechanic and now can deal with it since warranty claims for this scenario are also void.

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

[SamritT]

What is the cheapest bike in Thailand now? I mean brand new, and road legal. i don't mind if it looks ugly, or with Chinese technology.

[thomo]

You don't. But the producers have to meet the quality control and orders from the big boys don't they. For example the Honda CBR150... produced by APHonda, a Thai owned subsidiary of the Honda Corp. Much like a franchise, they have to meet the quality of Honda don't they?

Please correct if I'm wrong, and that for example, Honda Corporation, would have no control over the APHonda subsidiary company.

Richard?

[Richard-BKK]

claimed to be mechanic got a new 110cc bike changed the Carb for higher power and speed and drove that brand new bike to the max during the first 270km some piston part was broken...

Is his name Bird, because than he works for me... The guy was testing a engine without cooling it on his bench... Remarkable people we have in the world

[CMX]

A. I have read everything I could find about Tiger Boxers and mine was the most unfortunate experience.

B. I published the facts as I saw them so that others might know the worst.

C. I conclude for myself that even after my experiences, I consider the bike a great and worthwhile bargain.

D. I did no work on the bike because I felt that having the warranty applied gets a manufacturer's attention faster (financially).

E. I confused some members by length and a hidden jab or two (in my mind it is not certain that that "oil change" was all they did - engine is much smoother by half).

F. This was a single simple experience, statistically insignificant.

G. I am having so much fun with the thing now (new custom seat - and my knees fit perfectly - handlebars to suit my arms' length), virtually vibration free, that I would not sell it for every baht I've paid, and if it were not for local rains (at last!), I'd be in Mae Hong Song or Mae Salong.

[CMX]

A. I have read everything I could find about Tiger Boxers and mine was the most unfortunate experience.

B. I published the facts as I saw them so that others might know the worst.

C. I conclude for myself that even after my experiences, I consider the bike a great and worthwhile bargain.

D. I did no work on the bike because I felt that having the warranty applied gets a manufacturer's attention faster (financially).

E. I confused some members by length and a hidden jab or two (in my mind it is not certain that that "oil change" was all they did - engine is much smoother by half).

F. This was a single simple experience, statistically insignificant.

G. I am having so much fun with the thing now (new custom seat - and my knees fit perfectly - handlebars to suit my arms' length), virtually vibration free, that I would not sell it for every baht I've paid, and if it were not for local rains (at last!), I'd be in Mae Hong Song or Mae Salong.

[Tigersachsclub]

claimed to be mechanic got a new 110cc bike changed the Carb for higher power and speed and drove that brand new bike to the max during the first 270km some piston part was broken...

Is his name Bird, because than he works for me... The guy was testing a engine without cooling it on his bench... Remarkable people we have in the world

No not Bird , but i was shocked to read what he did....and he claims to be an mechanic ( european & european trained)

[powderpuff]

Firstly you have to wonder how Tiger make any money, servicing each motorbike like a Bentley?

Second. At the exact moment that DLT told me there was a problem with the frame number - that particular bike would have been returned for a replacement.

The lack of a dealer network with qualified mecn\hanics is worrisome.

Thirdly OP says he now has tools. He never said that Tiger supplied the missing tool kit.

You do indeed get what you pay for. Best to PB. Speedy recovery.

[Tigersachsclub]

A. I have read everything I could find about Tiger Boxers and mine was the most unfortunate experience.

B. I published the facts as I saw them so that others might know the worst.

C. I conclude for myself that even after my experiences, I consider the bike a great and worthwhile bargain.

D. I did no work on the bike because I felt that having the warranty applied gets a manufacturer's attention faster (financially).

E. I confused some members by length and a hidden jab or two (in my mind it is not certain that that "oil change" was all they did - engine is much smoother by half).

F. This was a single simple experience, statistically insignificant.

G. I am having so much fun with the thing now (new custom seat - and my knees fit perfectly - handlebars to suit my arms' length), virtually vibration free, that I would not sell it for every baht I've paid, and if it were not for local rains (at last!), I'd be in Mae Hong Song or Mae Salong.

Thanks CMX for clarification.....i love what you did on your seat. It looks great and comfy. Wide handlebar is also good specially if you do some longer rides . I did also have wider handlebar but almost a bit too wide...

same here , now that my bike(virago 750) is restored & running we have rain...

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

[Richard-BKK]

Thomo, you make me laugh so much that I fall from my chair. If you would only know the truth. But yes, dream on – buy that motorcycle with a Japanese, German, or even American brand name sticker on it. And ride around like you have an actual Japanese, German, or American motorcycle...

You don't. But the producers have to meet the quality control and orders from the big boys don't they. For example the Honda CBR150... produced by APHonda, a Thai owned subsidiary of the Honda Corp. Much like a franchise, they have to meet the quality of Honda don't they?

Please correct if I'm wrong, and that for example, Honda Corporation, would have no control over the APHonda subsidiary company.

In the news there's a lot of mistakes in how the Honda manufacturing group is setup, I have to agree that some of the misunderstandings are by Honda's own doing.

But after the recent reorganizations, AP Honda doesn't manufacture anything anymore. They are a distributor of motorcycles for the Thai market. Honda Thailand has after the reorganization the right to appoint other distributors if the need comes up (I think for example of big bikes).

[Tigersachsclub]

Firstly you have to wonder how Tiger make any money, servicing each motorbike like a Bentley?

Second. At the exact moment that DLT told me there was a problem with the frame number - that particular bike would have been returned for a replacement.

The lack of a dealer network with qualified mecn\hanics is worrisome.

Thirdly OP says he now has tools. He never said that Tiger supplied the missing tool kit.

You do indeed get what you pay for. Best to PB. Speedy recovery.

powderpuff....the op did have a toolkit on his boxer all the time but he had not looked at the right location as outlined in the owners manual and that why he didn't find it...but it was there when he checked on the right location....

May i ask all to read the thread thoroughly before posting .....putting something into the negative light just because you don't know the brand nor reading the thread is simply wrong!

powderpuff where in thailand did you see a qualified mechanic??? Let me know as i still need to get some things on my virago sorted.

Tiger makes more products that may carry different brand names on it...plus they also do export quite a bit. So am sure they make money ...if they didn't they wouldn't exist anymore...specially after the global recession which sorted many weak companies out.

Service Centers are nationwide(not so dealerships) and finding a good mechanic is difficult for any Brand of Bike really....

Tiger/Sachs Club-Mbox

Edited August 5, 2010 by Tigersachsclub

[Richard-BKK]

I cant even understand that you started compere HD to Tiger??? is that they way you see bikes Richard then just stay with tiger

I currently not have a Tiger, would be a bit weird anyway. But I due have a Harley and I know from a fact that most parts are made in China and the engine, and most of the bike is assembled in Japan. And I'm sure that most Harley riders including me have perfect weekend trips, and never have any problems – as me, but on the other hand I also know of many Tiger Boxer 250 RS riders who never had serious problems with the bike.

Anyway the comparison between Tiger vs Harley was inspired by you avatar which show that you're a Harley rider. And I always learned compare things with other things that people already know.

[Tigersachsclub]

What is the cheapest bike in Thailand now? I mean brand new, and road legal. i don't mind if it looks ugly, or with Chinese technology.

I am not sure if the very cheapest but very low in price is the Tiger Retro C 110...price is 29800 thb and here you have it showing(scroll down): http://www.tigersachsclub.com/tproducts.html

It looks very much like the Honda Cub but is actually a 4 stroker and it is not ugly at all....thats why i am getting one too

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

[thaicbr]

Firstly you have to wonder how Tiger make any money, servicing each motorbike like a Bentley?

Second. At the exact moment that DLT told me there was a problem with the frame number - that particular bike would have been returned for a replacement.

The lack of a dealer network with qualified mechanics is worrisome.

Thirdly OP says he now has tools. He never said that Tiger supplied the missing tool kit.

You do indeed get what you pay for. Best to PB. Speedy recovery.

1st Who cares as long as you get the service. 2nd That's what happened the bike went back to the factory and was sorted.

3rd the bit i underlined is fairly funny considering some of the mistakes that the big 4make,chains to tight etc

Sorted is the operative word. Whatever problems that occur Tiger sort them out quickly and at no cost to the owner.

Maybe they need to pay a closer eye on pr-prep (i think they do), But i think the problem is a lot of Thais just do not see the problems that we see. Therefore it gets overlooked.

[Richard-BKK]

What is the cheapest bike in Thailand now? I mean brand new, and road legal. i don't mind if it looks ugly, or with Chinese technology.

I am not sure if the very cheapest but very low in price is the Tiger Retro C 110...price is 29800 thb and here you have it showing(scroll down): http://www.tigersachsclub.com/tproducts.html

It looks very much like the Honda Cub but is actually a 4 stroker and it is not ugly at all....thats why i am getting one too

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

The cheapest road legal bike is probably the Lifan LF110-11H, it comes with front disc brake and alloy wheels supported by one year warranty (Tiger 3-years) and cost a bit less then the Tiger. In the same, under the 30k price level you can also find the Stallion Buddy 105.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[Tigersachsclub]

What is the cheapest bike in Thailand now? I mean brand new, and road legal. i don't mind if it looks ugly, or with Chinese technology.

I am not sure if the very cheapest but very low in price is the Tiger Retro C 110...price is 29800 thb and here you have it showing(scroll down): http://www.tigersach.../tproducts.html

It looks very much like the Honda Cub but is actually a 4 stroker and it is not ugly at all....thats why i am getting one too

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

The cheapest road legal bike is probably the Lifan LF110-11H, it comes with front disc brake and alloy wheels supported by one year warranty (Tiger 3-years) and cost a bit less then the Tiger.

do you have the price of the lifan lf110-11h on hand?

[Richard-BKK]

What is the cheapest bike in Thailand now? I mean brand new, and road legal. i don't mind if it looks ugly, or with Chinese technology.

I am not sure if the very cheapest but very low in price is the Tiger Retro C 110...price is 29800 thb and here you have it showing(scroll down): http://www.tigersach.../tproducts.html

It looks very much like the Honda Cub but is actually a 4 stroker and it is not ugly at all....thats why i am getting one too

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

The cheapest road legal bike is probably the Lifan LF110-11H, it comes with front disc brake and alloy wheels supported by one year warranty (Tiger 3-years) and cost a bit less then the Tiger.

do you have the price of the lifan lf110-11h on hand?

Nope, but I can look it up this evening... I believe I have the Lifan stuff at home, something in the back of my head says something like 28k something, but that could also be for something what is called a Radar X, which is not a Lifan bike. I recently looked at to much budget motorcycles... From brand names I had never knew excited ...

Edited August 5, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[Tigersachsclub]

ok, i found a cheap one...probably a special offer from p-bike...it is a ryuka here the link: http://www.p-bike.ne...2935&pid=152652

[Richard-BKK]

JRD had a promotion not so long ago, buy one 125cc showbabe scooter and get two...for 44,000 Baht (that is 22,000 per bike) But I believe that had more to do with if one breakdown you always had the other to keep on riding until the first was repaired...

Edited August 5, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[SamritT]

. . . lifan lf110-11h doesn't look too bad. Now I have to find out the price & where are they sold.

[SamritT]

. . . lifan lf110-11h doesn't look too bad. Now I have to find out the price & where are they sold.

[SamritT]

. . . lifan lf110-11h doesn't look too bad. Now I have to find out the price & where are they sold.

[Tigersachsclub]

Here a slideshow for the Tiger Retro

and to have something on topic here a slideshow of the Tiger Boxer 250RS:

Tiger/Sachs Club-Mbox

[LivinLOS]

May i ask all to read the thread thoroughly before posting .....putting something into the negative light just because you don't know the brand nor reading the thread is simply wrong!

Being a sponsor with a vested financial interest in brushing over and explaining tigers faults doesnt give you the right to dictate how a discussion runs.

We can talk about tiger bikes as we see fit, not how you want us to.

[Tigersachsclub]

May i ask all to read the thread thoroughly before posting .....putting something into the negative light just because you don't know the brand nor reading the thread is simply wrong!

Being a sponsor with a vested financial interest in brushing over and explaining tigers faults doesnt give you the right to dictate how a discussion runs.

We can talk about tiger bikes as we see fit, not how you want us to.

that probably came over misunderstood(or mispresented from me), but powderpuff had pointed out things where most of them have already been answered.

Obviously everyone has the right to say good or bad as desired .....but reading the thread you're posting in would be a smart thing to do, wouldn't it?

And no, my postings here as sponsor are not particularly financially motivated...those TV forum members who know me personally know that ...obviouslly i don't blame anyone else for thinking the same as you do about my doings.

Happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox