Compound Words

[kikenyoy]

I've had this thread idea for a while...words that can be confusing if you try to break them down into their component words. Please add to the list.

ค่อนข้าง rather, somewhat

ดูถูก insult

ข้าวของ things, belongings (usually not referring to food)

รับผิดชอบ responsible

กับข้าว dish eaten with rice

ตัวดี culprit

Edited August 2, 2010 by kikenyoy

[Slip]

An interesting idea. It might be interesting/ helpful if you could break down the individual words.

E.g. AFAIK Responsible, รับผิดชอบ - 'rab pit chawp' translates literally as 'receive, incorrect, like'. No matter how hard I try, I can't shoehorn it into English. Thai friends I've asked just shrug and say 'mai dai'

I'm not sure about กับข้าว though. Gab- with; Khap- rice

The other rice one probably alludes to the historic obsession with rice.

I think this should be a good topic.

[kikenyoy]

ปากดี be sarcastic, gossipy

[mikenyork]

ชอบ can mean "right" as well as "like" so รับผิตชอบ is to accept wrong or right

[Slip]

Well, that's one fixed. Thanks Mikenyork.

[krading]

I'm not sure about กับข้าว though. Gab- with; Khap- rice

The other rice one probably alludes to the historic obsession with rice.

I think this should be a good topic.

I think you are right about the "historic obsession" with rice Slip,

hence the expression ทำกับข้าว to 'make with rice'. Rice being the staple diet with other foods added as a bonus when they became available.

Edited August 2, 2010 by krading

[SoftWater]

I'm not sure about กับข้าว though. Gab- with; Khap- rice

As kikenyoy says, กับข้าว doesn't refer to rice, but to the side dishes you eat with it. It's an idiom.

A common expression is

Q- ไปไหน

A - ไปซื้อกับข้าว

(going to buy something to eat with the rice at home; it doesn't mean you're going to buy the rice)

Edited August 2, 2010 by SoftWater

[tgeezer]

I can not find ดูถูก in the dictionary. Should it be ดุ? ตัวดี is not in my student's dict. either. Do you have any references?

[DavidHouston]

I can not find ดูถูก in the dictionary. Should it be ดุ? ตัวดี is not in my student's dict. either. Do you have any references?

Lexitron:

ดูถูกดูแคลน [V] look down upon; underestimate; disparage; disdain; slight; insult; snub; affront

Syn. ดูถูก, เหยียดหยาม

Def. แสดงอาการเป็นเชิงดูหมิ่นหรือเหยียดหยามเขาว่าไม่มีความสามารถหรือไม่มีคุณสมบัติที่ดี.

Sample:เมื่อไหร่พวกเขาถึงจะเลิกดูถูกดูแคลนความคิดความอ่านของเราสักที

[kikenyoy]

I can not find ดูถูก in the dictionary. Should it be ดุ? ตัวดี is not in my student's dict. either. Do you have any references?

I found ตัวดี in thai2english and SEAlang:

1 N culprit, prime; principal; important one; chief instigator; ringleader; head a conspiracy

[tgeezer]

I can not find ดูถูก in the dictionary. Should it be ดุ? ตัวดี is not in my student's dict. either. Do you have any references?

Lexitron:

ดูถูกดูแคลน [V] look down upon; underestimate; disparage; disdain; slight; insult; snub; affront

Syn. ดูถูก, เหยียดหยาม

Def. แสดงอาการเป็นเชิงดูหมิ่นหรือเหยียดหยามเขาว่าไม่มีความสามารถหรือไม่มีคุณสมบัติที่ดี.

Sample:เมื่อไหร่พวกเขาถึงจะเลิกดูถูกดูแคลนความคิดความอ่านของเราสักที

Thanks I have found it now, my dict. prefers ดูแคนดูถูก, ดูหมิ่น Still looking for ตัวดี though.

Interesting definition there, I wonder if you can have คุรสมบัติที่ไม่ดี

[tgeezer]

Thanks I have found it now, my dict. prefers ดูแคนดูถูก, ดูหมิ่น Still looking for ตัวดี though.

Interesting definition there, I wonder if you can have คุณสมบัติที่ไม่ดี

Whereas you may see or hear stuff like 'retun back', 'good success', such expressions would never find their way into an English dictionary in the same way that they seem to in Thai dictionaries.

Does this mean that words are not defined in the same way in Thai? Someone more erudite than I could expand on this; does a dictionary have the same value in Thai as it does in English?

[tgeezer]

Thanks I have found it now, my dict. prefers ดูแคนดูถูก, ดูหมิ่น Still looking for ตัวดี though.

One Thai's opinion on ตัวดี is that it it is used with children, patronising if you like. For example an elder kid who teases their younger sibling; เจ้าตัวตีชอบแกล้งนอง The opposite to the literal meaning.

[tgeezer]

Thanks I have found it now, my dict. prefers ดูแคนดูถูก, ดูหมิ่น Still looking for ตัวดี though.

One Thai's opinion on ตัวดี is that it it is used with children, patronising if you like. For example an elder kid who teases their younger sibling; เจ้าตัวตีชอบแกล้งนอง The opposite to the literal meaning.

[mangkorn]

กับข้าว basically means "food."

ทำกับข้าว means "to cook/prepare food."

Boiling an egg, or a packet of instant noodles, can be called ทำกับข้าว

[SoftWater]

^ I think its more specific than just 'food'. Rice is 'food', but no one is going to say ทำกับข้าว for 'make rice' (rather: หุงข้าว). As said above, it means to make food that (generally) is the side/compliment dishes that you eat alongside rice (though I'm sure you can still ทำกับข้าว even when no rice is involved at all, as you say).

Sw

Edited August 4, 2010 by SoftWater

[mangkorn]

"Making something to eat" (i.e., anything, that you prepare) is referred to by many people in the shorthand ทำกับข้าว. I have heard it said in Laos, Isan, the central plains, Bangkok, the west, and the south - and yes, even for boiling a packet of instant noodles. As you said, it's an idiom...

[SoftWater]

Well, I'm neither as widely travelled nor as vastly experienced in Thai as your good self, but the point I was trying to make was that the idiom can't be used when you're actually talking about making rice itself.

'Less of course you know different, from all your travels 'n all.

I thought it worth pointing out; we beginners are easily confused.

Edited August 5, 2010 by SoftWater

[mangkorn]

Supercilious sort.

No need to travel at all, really. Just listen to the way people speak, when referring to cooking (with or without rice).

Or sit at stay home, and read some books (or a computer screen):

Thai-English Dictionary (Paiboon Publishing)

- ทำกับข้าว - cook (v.)

thai-language.com:

ทำกับข้าว verb - to cook food

Lexitron:

• ทำกับข้าว(V) : cook ; Syn: ทำอาหาร, ทำครัว, ปรุงอาหาร ; Samp: แม่ครัวที่จ้างมาใหม่ทำกับข้าวฝีมือเยี่ยมยอดมา
  

[SoftWater]

An unhelpful post, Mangkorn, in which you repeat yourself from earlier posts and refuse to address or acknowledge my question. Perhaps the point of posting was just an excuse to throw an ad hominem my way rather than move the discussion forwards?

So let me try again:

In your expert opinion, is this is OK?

"Would you make some rice?"

ทำกับข้าวให้หน่อย

My limited, computer-based book knowledge thinks not, but I'd be interested in your considered opinion (less so in your snide asides, thanks).

Sw

[tgeezer]

An unhelpful post, Mangkorn, in which you repeat yourself from earlier posts and refuse to address or acknowledge my question. Perhaps the point of posting was just an excuse to throw an ad hominem my way rather than move the discussion forwards?

So let me try again:

In your expert opinion, is this is OK?

"Would you make some rice?"

ทำกับข้าวให้หน่อย

My limited, computer-based book knowledge thinks not, but I'd be interested in your considered opinion (less so in your snide asides, thanks).

Sw

I am with you on this Softwater; it seems such a waste of a good word to corrupt it in this way and I expect Mangkorn would once have agreed us until he was straigtened out, as I was by a Thai only yesterday.

Here is an example of a perfectly good descriptive word used in a very slack(Thai) manner.

We must rid ourselves of this Western logic if we are going to be able to speak the language.

Edited August 9, 2010 by tgeezer

[SoftWater]

tgeezer, at the risk of labouring the point and/or appearing dense (I'll take the second one on the chin), are you saying that Thai's DO use

ทำกับข้าวให้หน่อย

to mean "Would you make some rice?" ?

In my experience, limited though it undoubtedly is, I would be very surprised if someone said this to me if all they wanted me to do was make rice. I think they'd also be rather irritated if, after asking me to ทำกับข้าวให้หน่อย, all I turned up with was a plate of rice and no กับข้าว to go with it. (or else they'd roll out another idiom, perhaps under the breath about คนฝรั่งขี้เหนียว ).

Still, as I never tire of reminding folk with ample demonstrations on this forum - and as the not-from Barcelona waiter 'Manuel' was oft-fond of saying - "I know nothing".

Edited August 9, 2010 by SoftWater

[tgeezer]

tgeezer, at the risk of labouring the point and/or appearing dense (I'll take the second one on the chin), are you saying that Thai's DO use

ทำกับข้าวให้หน่อย

to mean "Would you make some rice?" ?

In my experience, limited though it undoubtedly is, I would be very surprised if someone said this to me if all they wanted me to do was make rice. I think they'd also be rather irritated if, after asking me to ทำกับข้าวให้หน่อย, all I turned up with was a plate of rice and no กับข้าว to go with it. (or else they'd roll out another idiom, perhaps under the breath about คนฝรั่งขี้เหนียว ).

Still, as I never tire of reminding folk with ample demonstrations on this forum - and as the not-from Barcelona waiter 'Manuel' was oft-fond of saying - "I know nothing".

Not really, I am saying that a Thai friend when asked if it refered to noodles too said 'of course' or words to that effect. I won't use it though, I think that ทำอาหาร seems fine.

[anchan42]

It would help a lot to make clear distinction between ข้าว and กับข้าว.

ข้าว is rice and to cook it is หุงข้าว. The verb หุง is normally used with rice only. Other type of food take verb ทำ e.g.

ทำกับข้าว ทำขนม etc. This probably reflects special status rice has in Thai culture.

Traditionally in Thais' main meals, rice is a must have. กับข้าว can change daily but the rice will stay.

In old Thai way, one of the sentence for greeting friends is วันนี้กินข้าวกับอะไร = what did you have with rice today?

When people ask กินข้าวยัง what they actually mean is "have you been eaten(the main meal)yet? Eating rice without กับข้าว or กินข้าวเปล่า is a very strange thing to do.

ทำกับข้าวให้หน่อย = Could you cook me some stuff that go with rice?

Would you make some rice? = หุงข้า่วให้หน่อย

[anchan42]

"Making something to eat"

A direct translation of that would be ทำอะไรมากินหน่อย. The implication of it is that the speaker does not really care if it is ข้าว with กับข้าว or noodle or anything else.

[anchan42]

Not really, I am saying that a Thai friend when asked if it refered to noodles too said 'of course' or words to that effect. I won't use it though, I think that ทำอาหาร seems fine.

It would be very peculiar to refer to making noodle as ทำกับข้าว.

One thing you have to aware off is that a Thai will normally agree to anything as long as it get a inquisitive farang off their back.

ทำอาหาร is too formal in everyday life. You would not hear it in normal Thai kitchen.

Probably some pretentious hi-so use it.

[tgeezer]

Not really, I am saying that a Thai friend when asked if it refered to noodles too said 'of course' or words to that effect. I won't use it though, I think that ทำอาหาร seems fine.

It would be very peculiar to refer to making noodle as ทำกับข้าว.

One thing you have to aware off is that a Thai will normally agree to anything as long as it get a inquisitive farang off their back.

ทำอาหาร is too formal in everyday life. You would not hear it in normal Thai kitchen.

Probably some pretentious hi-so use it.

I may mix with some very pretentious people then, it is quite the commonest thing I have heard for general meal preparation whatever the type English, Japanese, Thai, Italian, etc. หุงข้าว has always been used in my house for preparing ข้าวสวย too.

I suppose I am talked to as though I was a child, which in fact I am in language terms.

It is known that I read the dictionary so perhaps people decide that the best way to get me off their back is to use correct words rather than agree with whatever I bring from here.

[SoftWater]

It would be very peculiar to refer to making noodle as ทำกับข้าว.

Thank you Anchan for your several posts and for laying this one to rest.

Edited August 10, 2010 by SoftWater