Emergency 'Stopping' Pheu Thai From Helping Reds In Jail

[jayjay0]

^^

nazis suspend civil rights. democrats don't.

my remark is still valid too, defend that violation of basic civil rights and you are nothing more than some right winger, anti-democrat, authoritarian dictatorship lover and an enemy of an open society.

You miss the whole point. The emergency decree was brought in by the Government not Abhist as you would have us believe. I do not know who was in power at the time but it was brought in to protect the average citizen from suffering at the hands of terrorist. How do you figure it is the right to form gatherings in public and actively propose violence if you don't get your way.

Why don't you take a stand against the people who actively disrupt honest peoples civil rights. When the current situation is passed the order will be lifted. And you can round up your 100,000 buddies and protest only having shown your true colors that is all you will be allowed to do. No more paid for camping trips for you in Bangkok.

[jayjay0]

Heroin was readily available in Thailand before Thaksins war on drugs now its almost non existant.

Your assessment on heroin availability is based on what?

My assesment is based on what people that were once heroin users have told me which is that after the war on drugs they now would have to leave the country if they wanted to buy heroin. Indeed that has been their main reason for coming off heroin and using methodone (legally) as part of their rehab.

Having lived in that world for many years I have a little knowledge about it.

What most of them [the majority] of them are doing is using other drugs some have actualy gone to methodone and managed to ween themselves off of it and are now drug free. Most drug users as I said just use other drugs.

[mazeltov]

^^

nazis suspend civil rights. democrats don't.

my remark is still valid too, defend that violation of basic civil rights and you are nothing more than some right winger, anti-democrat, authoritarian dictatorship lover and an enemy of an open society.

That is all you can bring to the thread, labels?

and you, what is your contribution?

what is the opinion of our 'libertarian' member in the case of the 16 years old student with his banner 'I saw dead people'?

what would a true libertarian say to an emergency decree that violates civil rights?

[way2muchcoffee]

and you, what is your contribution?

what is the opinion of our 'libertarian' member in the case of the 16 years old student with his banner 'I saw dead people'?

what would a true libertarian say to an emergency decree that violates civil rights?

Are you able to post without labeling people using ad hominem attacks?

Or perhaps there is some relationship between being a libertarian and the topic of this thread.

Edited August 6, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[rubl]

and you, what is your contribution?

what is the opinion of our 'libertarian' member in the case of the 16 years old student with his banner 'I saw dead people'?

what would a true libertarian say to an emergency decree that violates civil rights?

Are you able to post without labeling people using ad hominem attacks?

Or perhaps there is some relationship between being a libertarian and the topic of this thread.

Dear way2muchcoffee, better get a beer. This (type of) discussion with mazeltov I already gave up. Better things to do.

[mazeltov]

and you, what is your contribution?

what is the opinion of our 'libertarian' member in the case of the 16 years old student with his banner 'I saw dead people'?

what would a true libertarian say to an emergency decree that violates civil rights?

Are you able to post without labeling people using ad hominem attacks?

Or perhaps there is some relationship between being a libertarian and the topic of this thread.

Dear way2muchcoffee, better get a beer. This (type of) discussion with mazeltov I already gave up. Better things to do.

so what is now the contribution to the debate by the both of you?

[way2muchcoffee]

so what is now the contribution to the debate by the both of you?

Zip. Zero. Zilch. Do you feel better now?

[rubl]

and you, what is your contribution?

what is the opinion of our 'libertarian' member in the case of the 16 years old student with his banner 'I saw dead people'?

what would a true libertarian say to an emergency decree that violates civil rights?

Are you able to post without labeling people using ad hominem attacks?

Or perhaps there is some relationship between being a libertarian and the topic of this thread.

Dear way2muchcoffee, better get a beer. This (type of) discussion with mazeltov I already gave up. Better things to do.

so what is now the contribution to the debate by the both of you?

I can't speak for way2muchcoffee, but i already gave up as replied in #26. I see no sense in continuing a 'discussion' which drags on and starts to turn into a 't'is, t'isn't'. You may have fun on your own

[ableguy]

Of course if we cast our minds back we can recall how benevolent and compassionate Thaksin was with his opponents and detractors .

Indeed a model of a compassionate caring politician as Tak Bai , the war on Drugs, missing Muslim Lawyers so vividly demonstrated that care and compassion and sympathetic frame of mind so beloved by Thaksin and his cronies.

Thaksins supporters parking gas tankers near residential buildings in an earlier protest, the arson attacks the murder by the Red Shirts of an old man in Chang Mai who disagreed with Thaksins agenda,the incitement to riot, loot, kill by the red Shirts was indeed a benevolent utterance. The multitude of caring loving actions and the accompanying rhetoric is indeed worthy of a chapter in Thai history as a lesson to us all concerning Thaksin and his acolytes.

Ah, indeed the flow of the milk of human kindness and compassion that comes from the udders of the Thaksin and his Red Shirt supporter is indeed a heady brew.

When I read something like this I cannot see any balance in it why don't you also talk about all the lives he has saved by getting rid of drug dealers. Heroin was readily available in Thailand before Thaksins war on drugs now its almost non existant. Free hospitals didn't exist before Thaksin how many lives has his 30baht treatment scheme saved.? I am not a supporter of Thaksin but I hate reading biased propoganda as it smaks of unintelligence.

How sadly mis informed you are on his drug war.

[ableguy]

Of course if we cast our minds back we can recall how benevolent and compassionate Thaksin was with his opponents and detractors .

Indeed a model of a compassionate caring politician as Tak Bai , the war on Drugs, missing Muslim Lawyers so vividly demonstrated that care and compassion and sympathetic frame of mind so beloved by Thaksin and his cronies.

Thaksin supporters parking gas tankers near residential buildings in an earlier protest, the arson attacks the murder by the Red Shirts of an old man in Chang Mai who disagreed with Thaksins agenda,the incitement to riot, loot, kill by the red Shirts was indeed a benevolent utterance. The multitude of caring loving actions and the accompanying rhetoric is indeed worthy of a chapter in Thai history as a lesson to us all concerning Thaksin and his acolytes.

Ah, indeed the flow of the milk of human kindness and compassion that comes from the udders of the Thaksin and his Red Shirt supporter is indeed a heady brew.

There you go again.Yellow shirt no doubt. It looks like you need the rehab program ourself.. You do not understand anything. The issue is has nothing to do with Thaksin. It has to do with the inhumanity of the so called yellow shirts and the elitists that they kiss up to.

These people (the detained Red Shirts) have not been formally charged of any crime. They therefore have not been tried for anything. Most did no more than give their names in exchange for a bus ride home after spending weeks sitting in protest in search of their rights. You guys just oppress them so that you can enjoy cheap food and cheap labor.

And in respect to the yellow shirt kind. They (the yellow shirts) accept no responsibility for their hooligan behavior and at times their murderous intent. (Taking Government House, Throwing grenades and occupying the airport). The yellow shirts never get detained and are seldom prosecuted. You call the Red Shirts Terrorists, what do you imagine taking over Thailand's most prestigious and economically important asset make you and yours.

Yellow and the Red Shirts are both anti establishment and destructive of the quality of life in Thailand. Quite simply put both side are a blight on Thai society. What the situation needs is and amnesty to which all leaders of both side sign up too in agreement to promising not to engage in anti social behavior and not to do anything to damage Thailand in the future.

A little education will help you to understand the privilege to which you were beneficially endowed by being born in Thailand.

Wrong, what the leaders need is some serious jail time.

[philw]

^^

nazis suspend civil rights. democrats don't.

my remark is still valid too, defend that violation of basic civil rights and you are nothing more than some right winger, anti-democrat, authoritarian dictatorship lover and an enemy of an open society.

That is all you can bring to the thread, labels?

and you, what is your contribution?

what is the opinion of our 'libertarian' member in the case of the 16 years old student with his banner 'I saw dead people'?

what would a true libertarian say to an emergency decree that violates civil rights?

You're right mazeltov, but really pissing against the wind with some of the posters on here..

If you have a point they seem to have neither the manners nor sense to recognise it.

Edited August 6, 2010 by philw

[rubl]

^^

nazis suspend civil rights. democrats don't.

my remark is still valid too, defend that violation of basic civil rights and you are nothing more than some right winger, anti-democrat, authoritarian dictatorship lover and an enemy of an open society.

That is all you can bring to the thread, labels?

and you, what is your contribution?

what is the opinion of our 'libertarian' member in the case of the 16 years old student with his banner 'I saw dead people'?

what would a true libertarian say to an emergency decree that violates civil rights?

You're right mazeltov, but really pissing against the wind with some of the posters on here..

If you have a point they seem to have neither the manners or sense to recognise it.

Dear Phil, you may be God-sent as far as mazeltov is concerned. Now he doesn't have to have fun on his own

[way2muchcoffee]

You're right mazeltov, but really pissing against the wind with some of the posters on here..

If you have a point they seem to have neither the manners nor sense to recognise it.

Actually good manners would require not labeling people, calling them Nazis, right wingers, hypocrites, and the like, while attempting to make a point. Disagreement can and should be civil.

Edited August 6, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[animatic]

Of course if we cast our minds back we can recall how benevolent and compassionate Thaksin was with his opponents and detractors .

Indeed a model of a compassionate caring politician as Tak Bai , the war on Drugs, missing Muslim Lawyers so vividly demonstrated that care and compassion and sympathetic frame of mind so beloved by Thaksin and his cronies.

Thaksin supporters parking gas tankers near residential buildings in an earlier protest, the arson attacks the murder by the Red Shirts of an old man in Chang Mai who disagreed with Thaksins agenda,the incitement to riot, loot, kill by the red Shirts was indeed a benevolent utterance. The multitude of caring loving actions and the accompanying rhetoric is indeed worthy of a chapter in Thai history as a lesson to us all concerning Thaksin and his acolytes.

Ah, indeed the flow of the milk of human kindness and compassion that comes from the udders of the Thaksin and his Red Shirt supporter is indeed a heady brew.

There you go again.Yellow shirt no doubt. It looks like you need the rehab program ourself.. You do not understand anything. The issue is has nothing to do with Thaksin. It has to do with the inhumanity of the so called yellow shirts and the elitists that they kiss up to.

These people (the detained Red Shirts) have not been formally charged of any crime. They therefore have not been tried for anything. Most did no more than give their names in exchange for a bus ride home after spending weeks sitting in protest in search of their rights. You guys just oppress them so that you can enjoy cheap food and cheap labor.

And in respect to the yellow shirt kind. They (the yellow shirts) accept no responsibility for their hooligan behavior and at times their murderous intent. (Taking Government House, Throwing grenades and occupying the airport). The yellow shirts never get detained and are seldom prosecuted. You call the Red Shirts Terrorists, what do you imagine taking over Thailand's most prestigious and economically important asset make you and yours.

Yellow and the Red Shirts are both anti establishment and destructive of the quality of life in Thailand. Quite simply put both side are a blight on Thai society. What the situation needs is and amnesty to which all leaders of both side sign up too in agreement to promising not to engage in anti social behavior and not to do anything to damage Thailand in the future.

A little education will help you to understand the privilege to which you were beneficially endowed by being born in Thailand.

It seems you really are confused on several facts, and motivations,

and maybe should reconsider posting until you clear things up.

[animatic]

You're right mazeltov, but really pissing against the wind with some of the posters on here..

If you have a point they seem to have neither the manners nor sense to recognise it.

Actually good manners would require not labeling people, calling them Nazis, right wingers, hypocrites, and the like, while attempting to make a point. Disagreement can and should be civil.

One could hope so, but not really expect it here....

[philw]

You're right mazeltov, but really pissing against the wind with some of the posters on here..

If you have a point they seem to have neither the manners nor sense to recognise it.

Actually good manners would require not labeling people, calling them Nazis, right wingers, hypocrites, and the like, while attempting to make a point. Disagreement can and should be civil.

One could hope so, but not really expect it here....

Quite agree and i try to keep my posts civil even though i disagree with the view expressed.

For expressing mildly critical opinions of the Govt, yellow shirts, what happened in May, etc etc I have received many insults and it doesn't bother me.

More interesting, when I directly contradicted one prolific poster, within 2-3 hours details of my divorce were splashed all over another thread by another party.

Pure coincidence, i am sure, however it does beg a question or two.

The level of discussion here could be raised a lot and seems to me a pity that TVF has not changed for the better over the last couple of years.

Discussion here becomes too acrimonious too fast.

[rubl]

^^

nazis suspend civil rights. democrats don't.

my remark is still valid too, defend that violation of basic civil rights and you are nothing more than some right winger, anti-democrat, authoritarian dictatorship lover and an enemy of an open society.

That is all you can bring to the thread, labels?

and you, what is your contribution?

what is the opinion of our 'libertarian' member in the case of the 16 years old student with his banner 'I saw dead people'?

what would a true libertarian say to an emergency decree that violates civil rights?

You're right mazeltov, but really pissing against the wind with some of the posters on here..

If you have a point they seem to have neither the manners nor sense to recognise it.

Dear Phil, you remind me of some American GOP teabaggers:

"We needed to have the press be our friend ... We wanted them to ask the questions we want to answer so that they report the news the way we want it to be reported." —Nevada GOP Senate nominee and Tea Party favorite Sharron Angle, during an interview with Fox News

[asiawatcher]

Of course if we cast our minds back we can recall how benevolent and compassionate Thaksin was with his opponents and detractors .

Indeed a model of a compassionate caring politician as Tak Bai , the war on Drugs, missing Muslim Lawyers so vividly demonstrated that care and compassion and sympathetic frame of mind so beloved by Thaksin and his cronies.

Thaksins supporters parking gas tankers near residential buildings in an earlier protest, the arson attacks the murder by the Red Shirts of an old man in Chang Mai who disagreed with Thaksins agenda,the incitement to riot, loot, kill by the red Shirts was indeed a benevolent utterance. The multitude of caring loving actions and the accompanying rhetoric is indeed worthy of a chapter in Thai history as a lesson to us all concerning Thaksin and his acolytes.

Ah, indeed the flow of the milk of human kindness and compassion that comes from the udders of the Thaksin and his Red Shirt supporter is indeed a heady brew.

When I read something like this I cannot see any balance in it why don't you also talk about all the lives he has saved by getting rid of drug dealers. Heroin was readily available in Thailand before Thaksins war on drugs now its almost non existant. Free hospitals didn't exist before Thaksin how many lives has his 30baht treatment scheme saved.? I am not a supporter of Thaksin but I hate reading biased propoganda as it smaks of unintelligence.

How sadly mis informed you are on his drug war.

Absolutely correct.... well said

[DickFarang]

Oh boo hoo hooo ooo PT got them into this mess,

and now PT whines loudly when they can't get them out as fast as they got them in.

"The parents don't want to see their son undergoing a mental rehabilitation programme. They are afraid it will make their son's record look bad. We will see how we can help," Niran said.

The youngster has been ordered to attend a rehabilitation programme on August 16 and 17. However, the boy insists he has no mental problems.

"There's no need for me to undergo the programme because I am neither crazed nor insane. I am willing to cooperate if that's the normal procedure, but I'm worried the records will make me look bad," the boy said.

Righty O won't look as bad as being arrested and charged

for arson or rioting or terrorism with his Red Buddies.

What an amazing priority list this family has.

Rehabilitation from red brainwashing, is worse than

crimes committed against the whole country, like helping burn Bangkok.

That is very probably the boy in Chiang Rai holding up a banner saying " I saw dead people at Ratchaprasong"

I don't think that he needs a 'mental rehabilitation programme'.

And such a programme is questionable. only hard core right wing extremist, wannabe thought-policemen and dictatorship lover boys, anti democratic hillbilly redneck nazis and other authoritarian enemies of an open society would think of such programme as useful.

What are you smoking a two day program such as this would not even be considered a fair start for the people you mentioned much less useful they need a lot more time. They are certainly long term cases. We live in a fortunate time in Thai hystory. We have Abhist in control can you imagine what would happen if Thaksin and his red shirt following were in control. Bang Bang no more problem

For the boy it is adequate.

IMHO “re-education programs” were a monopoly of communist regimes.

[rubl]

Quite agree and i try to keep my posts civil even though i disagree with the view expressed.

For expressing mildly critical opinions of the Govt, yellow shirts, what happened in May, etc etc I have received many insults and it doesn't bother me.

More interesting, when I directly contradicted one prolific poster, within 2-3 hours details of my divorce were splashed all over another thread by another party.

Pure coincidence, i am sure, however it does beg a question or two.

The level of discussion here could be raised a lot and seems to me a pity that TVF has not changed for the better over the last couple of years.

Discussion here becomes too acrimonious too fast.

Phil, on a serious tone, I'm sorry to hear about that personal attack you refer to. That's really low. I hope most of the posters (will) try to keep discussions on an 'intellectual' level, even with personal opinions. If we do not agree on a subject we should still be able to discuss that in a civilized manner.

[SomTumTiger]

What has stopped PT from helping the reds is that Thaksin hasn't sent a check in a while...

[march]

Many red shirts 'abandoned' by their leaders: human rights activist

The Nation on Sunday

Published on August 8, 2010

Dozens of impoverished red shirts detained since the May 19 dispersal of the red shirts' protest have been "virtually abandoned" with no visitors and some without defence lawyers, revealed Nitirat Sapsoomboon, a member of the National Human Rights Commission's subcommittee on citizen and political rights.

At least 10 of them are women and Nitirat said red-shirt leaders and members should visit them and afford them with legal assistance.

"They should first get them lawyers. They should visit them," said Nitirat, adding that people may accuse him of slandering red shirts because he was formerly an active yellow-shirt member but he believes there exists a double standard as detained red-shirt leaders have received a lot of support but many ordinary red shirts do not.

"I think the disparity exists. I understand that there may be some disparity. But this is too much. Providing moral support to those who fought along with you needs to be consistent."

One tragic case discovered by the subcommittee, said Nitirat, is a couple who are both detained while their children are really suffering as a consequence.

Another received a visit by a red-shirt lawyer only once so far.

"It's like they have been abandoned. Especially those 100 people or so in provinces like Ubon Ratchathani, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen, and Mukdahan. Whether these people are guilty or not they deserve due process of the law. Some are elderly people or suffering from tumours. These people deserve lawyers and the right to bail. Otherwise it would lead to more hatred on their part. If the judicial system cannot be relied upon then don't even think about how we can achieve reconciliation," he said, adding some received no visits from their relatives while one couldn't even afford a sleeping gown.

Admitting that many detained red shirts are not looked after, key red shirt member Sombat Boon-ngam-anong, who is in touch with Nitirat, said the red-shirt movement is too disorganised and in too much disarray to handle the matter.

"There is no single organ handling the matter directly."

Sombat said he would try to gather other red shirts to visit these nameless ordinary red shirts in jail soon.

He said it was futile to expect the Pheu Thai Party to help.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/08/08/politics/Many-red-shirts-abandoned-by-their-leaders-human-r-30135435.html

[bendejo]

...

Heroin was readily available in Thailand before Thaksins war on drugs now its almost non existant.

...

If you read any news at all about the drug problem in Thailand you'd know it is about stuff in the methamphetamine category, which has nothing to do with heroin or opium. Since the 1960s, one way for gov'ts to get money from Uncle Sam was to put on a show of fighting drugs: I don't know if TS was pocketing US money for his efforts but all I could say is that I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was.

I have no idea what the availability of heroin is like in the country, but if it is hard to find I would think it is for the same reason that you can't find good-quality rubber (aka elastic) bands: it's an export commodity.

[plachon]

...

Heroin was readily available in Thailand before Thaksins war on drugs now its almost non existant.

...

If you read any news at all about the drug problem in Thailand you'd know it is about stuff in the methamphetamine category, which has nothing to do with heroin or opium. Since the 1960s, one way for gov'ts to get money from Uncle Sam was to put on a show of fighting drugs: I don't know if TS was pocketing US money for his efforts but all I could say is that I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was.

I have no idea what the availability of heroin is like in the country, but if it is hard to find I would think it is for the same reason that you can't find good-quality rubber (aka elastic) bands: it's an export commodity.

I have seen no evidence that Thaksin was getting US money for his bloody version of the "War on Drugs" (unlike his predecessors such as Gen Pao and Field Marshall Sarit), but he was definitely taking Uncle Sam's money for his "War on Terrorism", for items like the infamous scanners at Suwannaphum Airport and various other hi-tech gadegetry to be applied for counter-terrorist surveillance and border controls. In my opinion, the US deserves a certain degree of culpability for not condemning Thaksin's methods in the South, which were highly counter-productive in fighting insurgency, but had quite the opposite effect in increasing recruits to extreme groups and the path of violence, due to its extreme use of force and lack of consideration for human rights. An own goal for both Thailand and US, in my opinion. However, Bush, like Thaksin, didn't get it then and it seems neither has learned the lessons of their own mistakes since, although I would give Bush a better chance at mild redemption than Mr T.

[mazeltov]

That is very probably the boy in Chiang Rai holding up a banner saying " I saw dead people at Ratchaprasong"

I don't think that he needs a 'mental rehabilitation programme'.

And such a programme is questionable. only hard core right wing extremist, wannabe thought-policemen and dictatorship lover boys, anti democratic hillbilly redneck nazis and other authoritarian enemies of an open society would think of such programme as useful.

What are you smoking a two day program such as this would not even be considered a fair start for the people you mentioned much less useful they need a lot more time. They are certainly long term cases. We live in a fortunate time in Thai hystory. We have Abhist in control can you imagine what would happen if Thaksin and his red shirt following were in control. Bang Bang no more problem

For the boy it is adequate.

IMHO “re-education programs” were a monopoly of communist regimes.

call it the totalitarian regimes. of course, a lot of them were so called communist countries, but the commies don't hold a monopoly on this. the enemies of an open society don't come only from that side.

I had the bad luck to spend childhood and youth up in such a system and would argue that the "commies" with their ruling party weren't much different from the nazis. both staunch national-socialist, 'loving' the leader and the ideology. having a fetish for the army and militarism. witch-hunting dissidents and critics. with an independent mind you became their enemy.