Farangs Calling Thai'S Racist...

[maccaroni man]

There are plenty of prejudice people, cheats and thieves in every country. Why should Thailand be any different?

true so why is this thread still alive, there are far more reasons to stay or leave any place.

[carmine]

As a Thai, I'll gladly admit that there are plenty of racist Thais, local gov't policies, etc. Plenty of socio-economic class based discrimination as well.

Big deal, welcome to the planet.

Atlast....common sense. Welcome to the planet. :clap2:

And it took a Thai to make the point.

I think the point he mistakenly made is that Thais don't think discrimination is a significant thing. That in itself is discrimination.

No, you are just ridiculously twisting his words....which is a bit desperate i think.

[David006]

I think you are very confused. There are different levels of racism but they are ALL racism.

I agree

Ah well if we all agreed ...there would be no debate/babble on this or any other purely academic subject on TV la.

You are correct I am certainly totally confused... must be the heat...

[carmine]

There are plenty of prejudice people, cheats and thieves in every country. Why should Thailand be any different?

true so why is this thread still alive, there are far more reasons to stay or leave any place.

Two logical posts on the bounce!!!!!!

[Berkshire]

You obviously prefer to pretend everything is wonderful - good for you - some of us are more honest.

Wow, this is classic. "Some of us are more honest." That's about the biggest, foulest piece of stinking horse manure I've read in a while. It would be just grand if the expat's posting on TV could be a little "more honest with themselves." Don't blame all of your woes on the Thais. There are plenty of examples here that suggest that many farangs in Thailand are doing just fine. Being treated fairly by the Thais. Able to pursue the sort of life that they couldn't elsewhere. Recognizing the positives without dwelling on the negatives. They have no need to blame the Thais.

But these other whiners are just so bent on finding someone to blame for every little disappointment in their pathetic lives. That's what it seems like to me. I'm not blind to see the good and the bad that goes on here. But if the bad ever outweighed the good, I'd be outta here in a New York minute.

The entire premise of my opening piece has yet to be challenged. I've seen real racism in the US and the Thais are nothing like that. But if you want to change the whole meaning of the word "racism" and expand it to mean something more, then hey, what more is there to say.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Berkshire

[electau]

"The management reserves the right to refuse sevice to any person at any time and for any reason" by order of the management. In God we trust in others cash. ( from the US of A.)

Thai people manage their country, they are Thai citizens, every one else is an alien or foreigner. ( Alien is a legitimate immigration word.)

In Thailand the Thai people are the management, whether you like it or not. The West is west and the East is east. You do not compare chalk with cheese.

I am a WASP, in Australia I have been called a white b*****d, and I am one , by birth, not by profession. In the US of A I would be known as an Sonofabitch, it is how you use the word in a sentence is what matters, if one gets my meaning.

An Nationalism should not be confused with Racism.

[Berkshire]

"The management reserves the right to refuse sevice to any person at any time and for any reason" by order of the management. In God we trust in others cash. ( from the US of A.)

Thai people manage their country, they are Thai citizens, every one else is an alien or foreigner. ( Alien is a legitimate immigration word.)

In Thailand the Thai people are the management, whether you like it or not. The West is west and the East is east. You do not compare chalk with cheese.

I am a WASP, in Australia I have been called a white b*****d, and I am one , by birth, not by profession. In the US of A I would be known as an Sonofabitch, it is how you use the word in a sentence is what matters, if one gets my meaning.

An Nationalism should not be confused with Racism.

Concur. Yes, there is some logic on TV afterall!

[bonobo]

  The entire premise of my opening piece has yet to be challenged.  I've seen real racism in the US and the Thais are nothing like that.  But if you want to change the whole meaning of the word "racism" and expand it to mean something more, then hey, what more is there to say.

Uh, yes it has been challenged by more than one poster.  

Some posters have opined that there is no racism in Thailand.  Some have related their happy lives here without observing any.  But others have given concrete examples of racism.  True, to be accurate, many of the examples were of "demographicism," if I can use that phrase again.  But some were of the more accepted definition of racism.

Whether you think racism in Thais is a big problem or not, whether you think racism is greater in other countries or not, whether you think there is no racism by Thais or there is racism is another issue.  But it is rather disingenuous to write that no one has challenged your premise when in fact many, many posters have done so.

[Berkshire]

The entire premise of my opening piece has yet to be challenged. I've seen real racism in the US and the Thais are nothing like that. But if you want to change the whole meaning of the word "racism" and expand it to mean something more, then hey, what more is there to say.

Uh, yes it has been challenged by more than one poster.

Some posters have opined that there is no racism in Thailand. Some have related their happy lives here without observing any. But others have given concrete examples of racism. True, to be accurate, many of the examples were of "demographicism," if I can use that phrase again. But some were of the more accepted definition of racism.

Whether you think racism in Thais is a big problem or not, whether you think racism is greater in other countries or not, whether you think there is no racism by Thais or there is racism is another issue. But it is rather disingenuous to write that no one has challenged your premise when in fact many, many posters have done so.

Bonobo, you and I have disagreed on the basic meaning of the word (semantics), so I can see where you're coming from. I do not think I'm being disingenuous. If I say the earth is round and someone disagrees to say its flat, am I being challenged? My point, again, is my understanding of racism "from a western perspective," which is where most of the posters here are coming from. For a farang to use the word "racist," you are using it in the context of western interpretation which doesn't apply here.

Honestly, at this point we're all just going in circles. I've repeated over and over my point of view, but if folks still disagree, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[H2oDunc]

Pulled this from a site and what the guy says makes a lot of sense.

You have a Right to be Racist, Bigoted, and Hateful.

You do. Every human being has a right to their opinion. You have a right to speak your opinion.

But watch out, because everyone has a right to criticize your opinion with their opinions.

This is a Fact. You are a free human being and can choose your own path.

Most people are bigoted against the bigots, of which I try not to be. I generally accept people despite how much they tick me off, but hey no one's perfect and even I go down the wrong path often.

A) People that want laws to make Racism, Bigotry, and Hate to become Illegal and punishable.

1) Are attempting to destroy our freedom of speech and opinion.

2) Should realize their own opinions are up for banning under such absurd laws.

3) Need to grow thicker skin

4) Should utilize their RIGHT TO IGNORE others.

The Right to Ignore others.

1) Should be understood by all parties.

2) Is related to our Right to Free Speech (The right to ignore other's speech).

3) You do not have to Ignore anyone, as you have the right to criticize them if you so choose instead.

C) Violence and Assaults.

1) Is illegal and wrong.

2) Is never acceptable even if someone talks crap in your face.

3) You deserve to be imprisoned for harming another person especially if they were only talking crap.

4) Rather than resorting to violence, See section B for solutions.

D) Hypocrites

1) Everyone is a Hypocrite including myself.

2) People whom claim to not be Racist, Bigoted, or Hateful are liars.

3) Examples:

I am Bigoted and Hateful towards Scumbag Politicians, Murderers, Violent Thugs, Liars, Rapists, etc.

See we are all guilty of it in the end. Therefore we are all Hypocrites.

E) Dressing Racism, Bigotry, and Hate up in "Sheep's Clothing".

1) Since it is a clear FACT that everyone is guilty of these things, and no amount of debate will change this fact; we have a problem of Honesty.

2) The obvious Racist, Bigot, or Hate-monger is Honest and Open.

3) The "all loving all tolerant" type lives a lie and lies to themselves, and uses all types of fancy language/words to cover it up so they do not feel guilty for the Truth.

Their own very statements show that they are indeed living in denial, as they spew hatred for others they deem "unacceptable".

Example : "I hate Hitler" or "I hate Stalin". This is hate my friends.

Who here has the guts to say "I love Hitler"? Right almost no one. See points D and E.

F) Intolerance.

1) Every human being is Intolerant of others.

2) Intolerance is not a bad thing.

3) Examples : I am intolerant of Liars. I am intolerant of crooks and thieves. I am intolerant of murderers and rapists. Etc.

G) Social Engineering.

1) We are being socially engineered into this hypocritical point of view.

2) People use guilt trips and threats to combat honest people.

3) Through the use of extreme self-denial, we are all becoming worse off and our very Freedoms are being attacked in mass.

I merely am posting this to clear up the mass confusion about our Rights as Human Beings that is so rampant in today's world. Grow a thicker skin, and learn to Ignore those whom you do not like. Stop trying to enforce your beliefs on others by trying to make opinions/beliefs illegal. Yes you have a RIGHT to state your opinion that you think it should be illegal, but I have a right to criticize that as I am doing right now in this thread.

As said Not my thoughts entirely but what the guy says does make a lot of sense. Especially the " grow a thicker skin " bit.

In my working life I have been called all sorts. Has it ever bothered me NO. I am a man and just get on with it.

Do I think Thais are racists NO. I have found they treat people well and only treat people bad who treat them or their culture the same way.

[SuperstarStatus]

Man like I said farang don't mean nothin bad.

I just ask my girl who's been speak Lao / Thai her whole life and asked "when you say farang do you think of it as being bad as calling a black person a "n***er or a Chinese a c***k" she said no, it basically mean "white guy" to me.

BAM there you go. Cased closed. Not racist. Next topic.

[Ulysses G.]

You obviously prefer to pretend everything is wonderful - good for you - some of us are more honest.

Wow, this is classic. "Some of us are more honest." That's about the biggest, foulest piece of stinking horse manure I've read in a while.

I have to admit that I thought the exact same thing.

[carmine]

You obviously prefer to pretend everything is wonderful - good for you - some of us are more honest.

Wow, this is classic. "Some of us are more honest." That's about the biggest, foulest piece of stinking horse manure I've read in a while.

I have to admit that I thought the exact same thing.

Thats not like you are Berkshire to agree on something

[bonobo]

The entire premise of my opening piece has yet to be challenged. I've seen real racism in the US and the Thais are nothing like that. But if you want to change the whole meaning of the word "racism" and expand it to mean something more, then hey, what more is there to say.

Uh, yes it has been challenged by more than one poster.

Some posters have opined that there is no racism in Thailand. Some have related their happy lives here without observing any. But others have given concrete examples of racism. True, to be accurate, many of the examples were of "demographicism," if I can use that phrase again. But some were of the more accepted definition of racism.

Whether you think racism in Thais is a big problem or not, whether you think racism is greater in other countries or not, whether you think there is no racism by Thais or there is racism is another issue. But it is rather disingenuous to write that no one has challenged your premise when in fact many, many posters have done so.

Bonobo, you and I have disagreed on the basic meaning of the word (semantics), so I can see where you're coming from. I do not think I'm being disingenuous. If I say the earth is round and someone disagrees to say its flat, am I being challenged? My point, again, is my understanding of racism "from a western perspective," which is where most of the posters here are coming from. For a farang to use the word "racist," you are using it in the context of western interpretation which doesn't apply here.

Honestly, at this point we're all just going in circles. I've repeated over and over my point of view, but if folks still disagree, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Actually, I only recommended that posters not get too involved over semantics on the word "racism." I never even posted what my own definition was. At the time, posters were going back and forth as to what "racism" meant, and I pointed out that scientifically, "race" has very little meaning, so I thought it was just spinning wheels to keep arguing if this was racism or that was nationalism or that was classism. In my opinion, the real question was whether Thais act or think is a discriminatory manner to others. At least this is how this thread has evolved.

Not to put words in your mouth, but I interpret your initial point that what a westerner might think of as racism, a Thai does not consider it as such. I hate to get into the "farang" issue, but the point being, for example, that a western person might feel that the term is racist while a Thai might feel that the term is merely a convenient description without negative connotation.

However, many posters have challenged you on the idea of Thai racism, bringing up instances which would follow most of the world's connotation of the word. Whether you agree with their points or not is another issue, but the fact is that your post has been challenged, and with logic and specific examples.

You may be 100% correct in your assertions, or you may be way off-base (I am not writing whether I think you are right or wrong here.) . But many posters have directly challenged them. And that is why I think you are being a little disingenuous, basically declaring victory by default because no one has even challenged your point.

[BWPattaya]

If we aren't Thai, we have to accept things here. But that doesn't mean we have to approve of them, endorse them, or not comment about them.

No you dont have to accept things here, if you dont approve or endorse them, leave.

No one is keeping us here, we are all here for our own reasons.

Personally I would rather be here warts and all than in some Orwellian newspeak PC BS country, and its obvious so would you, otherwise you would be leaving.

Absolutely correct. Thailand may not be Paradise, that is a State Of Mind. For every example of something someone doesn't like here we could give examples from other countries. In the UK we probably couldn't even have this discussion because we might mention other cultures, races, nationalities and then get arrested. As an Englishman I get discriminated against because preference is given to immigrants and I am not allowed to comment about them. I paid all my national insurance and tazes until I retired and am not entitled to anything if I returned, whereas immigrants would get many benfits trown at them.

Don't talk to me about Thais being racist simply because they use a word they grew up with to describe Westerners (a corruptin of the word Farangset - French).

[sillyman99]

If Thai people were as racist and bigoted as many posters on this site are about Thailand and Thai people, I'd be concerned.

I just can't see that happening though.

[yogi100]

'Racism' is a word thrown around by the liberal politicians intended to stifle any objection to our governenments' devotion to a global multicultural Utopia. It's never worked throughout history and is not working now. Human nature dictates that we stick with our own kind and nothing can alter that fact. Falangs only come to Pattaya for the cheap sex with young women not because they wish to embrace Thai culture. We don't go in Thai bars and Thais don't go to Falang hangouts.

Speak for yourself, I stay in Thailand because I have a Thai wife, and many very good Thai friends.I do not live in Bangkok and the community I live in has been nothing but accepting and helpful.I go to the hardware store and the owner invites me for breakfast, and never increases the price when I buy something because I am a farang. I get the same price where ever I go, the Thai price.

You are probably one of a significant minority in your community. Were it to be swamped by Falangs buying posh houses and driving fancy cars you might see a change in attitude and a degree of resentment set in.

Have you been given Thai citizenship, do you have the same rights as your Thai neighbour and can you vote in elections? Where do you stand if you do not meet the Visa requirements? Would you be deported if you no longer had the funds to support yourself even if you are married to a Thai? I'm pretty certain I know the answers to these questions already. Incidentally I approve of the Thai attitude to expats and wish my country had the same strict laws.

In Britain we have areas that have been completely taken over by immigrants due to a governmental open door immigration policy. Many British people strongly disapprove of this state of affairs, You have to live in one of these areas to really experience it. The degree of mutual hostility between the indigenous folk and the immigrants has increased over the years and they now just about tolerate one another. In a recent survey 60% of British people wished they could leave Britain, the favourite destination would be Australia followed by Canada.

[surayu]

In the UK we probably couldn't even have this discussion because we might mention other cultures, races, nationalities and then get arrested. As an Englishman I get discriminated against because preference is given to immigrants and I am not allowed to comment about them. I paid all my national insurance and tazes until I retired and am not entitled to anything if I returned, whereas immigrants would get many benfits trown at them.

That's what i describe as self inflicted racism, people of a certain race can do what other races cannot by law, it's a clear injustice of a weird kind, something like the sadomaso pleasures i guess, people get ahead of other not because of their skills/qualities/experience but only by race, surely that applied to Thailand would make things incredibly easy for foreigners, however it would be something very stupid to do (for them)and even if that would get me many advantages if i would have to choose i will definetely refuse such an unfair system, i still remember a journalist in the UK working for the biggest local broadcaster (he was from India) that complained in public about the premises where he was working, they were all from his country and being chosen only because of their race, hilaryous

[surayu]

Incidentally I approve of the Thai attitude to expats and wish my country had the same strict laws.

IMO i don't think that denying basic human rights would be a good choice for any country

[phetaroi]

As a Thai, I'll gladly admit that there are plenty of racist Thais, local gov't policies, etc. Plenty of socio-economic class based discrimination as well.

Big deal, welcome to the planet.

Atlast....common sense. Welcome to the planet. :clap2:

And it took a Thai to make the point.

I think the point he mistakenly made is that Thais don't think discrimination is a significant thing. That in itself is discrimination.

No, you are just ridiculously twisting his words....which is a bit desperate i think.

Sorry, that's how I read it. After all, I can't think of many instances of anti-discrimination actions in Thailand, either by the government or large groups of individuals. Seems to me the whole concept is pretty much not on Thai peoples' radar.

[surayu]

If Thai people were as racist and bigoted........................................ I'd be concerned.

I just can't see that happening though.

Try to read more threads on the forum or even get out more (in Thailand) and you might be able to see that, if not, then it might depend from the very thick dark lenses i see on the pic you are using

[maccaroni man]

The entire premise of my opening piece has yet to be challenged. I've seen real racism in the US and the Thais are nothing like that. But if you want to change the whole meaning of the word "racism" and expand it to mean something more, then hey, what more is there to say.

well i can honestly say that i read about racism in the states and i lived during segrigation; blacks used different water fountains, windows at the concession stand and sat in the rear of the movie theater, but it wasnot until i arrived in bkk that i had people actully get up and move away from on the bus. btw i was in a suit and did not smell.

[SuperstarStatus]

well i can honestly say that i read about racism in the states and i lived during segrigation; blacks used different water fountains, windows at the concession stand and sat in the rear of the movie theater, but it wasnot until i arrived in bkk that i had people actully get up and move away from on the bus. btw i was in a suit and did not smell.

Um maybe they where being nice giving you more space? Plus if you are older people will move and duck out of your way out of respect.

You don't have to look into someone moving away from you to deep ... Geesh

I never met or seen people in my life so sensitive in my life untill I seen this message board. Seriously some people here that really believe they are gods gift to earth.

[NamF0n]

Ive been offered work here paying many times what a Thai would get for doing the same job with benefits that a Thai would never be offered so its not like we're discriminated in this most important aspect of life.

However the longer ive stayed here the more ive had a feeling of being about as welcome as a fart in an astronauts suit.

I dont think its racism whatever that is these days i just think its a case that a significant section of society lack decency, fairplay and genuine manners towards anyone who has 1 baht less then themselves, doesnt have such a high status job or connections, whose skin isnt the accepted colour etc etc....

[MAJIC]

Ive been offered work here paying many times what a Thai would get for doing the same job with benefits that a Thai would never be offered so its not like we're discriminated in this most important aspect of life.

However the longer ive stayed here the more ive had a feeling of being about as welcome as a fart in an astronauts suit.

I dont think its racism whatever that is these days i just think its a case that a significant section of society lack decency, fairplay and genuine manners towards anyone who has 1 baht less then themselves, doesnt have such a high status job or connections, whose skin isnt the accepted colour etc etc....

"Ive been offered work here paying many times what a Thai would get for doing the same job with benefits that a Thai would never be offered so its not like we're discriminated in this most important aspect of life".

And was that with a Thai company or a Western one?

and what what type of work was it?

Edited August 18, 2010 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

If we aren't Thai, we have to accept things here. But that doesn't mean we have to approve of them, endorse them, or not comment about them.

No you dont have to accept things here, if you dont approve or endorse them, leave.

No one is keeping us here, we are all here for our own reasons.

Personally I would rather be here warts and all than in some Orwellian newspeak PC BS country, and its obvious so would you, otherwise you would be leaving.

Absolutely correct. Thailand may not be Paradise, that is a State Of Mind. For every example of something someone doesn't like here we could give examples from other countries. In the UK we probably couldn't even have this discussion because we might mention other cultures, races, nationalities and then get arrested. As an Englishman I get discriminated against because preference is given to immigrants and I am not allowed to comment about them. I paid all my national insurance and tazes until I retired and am not entitled to anything if I returned, whereas immigrants would get many benfits trown at them.

Don't talk to me about Thais being racist simply because they use a word they grew up with to describe Westerners (a corruptin of the word Farangset - French).

If? the word was used to describe the French Nationality,then it would naturally follow that the Thais have not been paying attention,and the term is totally inappropiate to call other Westerners "Farang"

Poor education or just laziness?

[NamF0n]

Ive been offered work here paying many times what a Thai would get for doing the same job with benefits that a Thai would never be offered so its not like we're discriminated in this most important aspect of life.

However the longer ive stayed here the more ive had a feeling of being about as welcome as a fart in an astronauts suit.

I dont think its racism whatever that is these days i just think its a case that a significant section of society lack decency, fairplay and genuine manners towards anyone who has 1 baht less then themselves, doesnt have such a high status job or connections, whose skin isnt the accepted colour etc etc....

"Ive been offered work here paying many times what a Thai would get for doing the same job with benefits that a Thai would never be offered so its not like we're discriminated in this most important aspect of life".

And was that with a Thai company or a Western one?

and what what type of work was it?

I'd class it as a Thai company though it has European connections, and it was a management position in the oil industry, ironically id say i was offered it purely on the basis ive white skin and am a English speaker, it certainly wasnt to do with me being experienced or extremely well qualified as at the time i wasnt.

[Ulysses G.]

If? the word was used to describe the French Nationality,then it would naturally follow that the Thais have not been paying attention,and the term is totally inappropiate to call other Westerners "Farang"

Poor education or just laziness?

Well, that was quite some time ago. No one had made up political correctness yet!

[Petesear]

Farang for the most part is not racist, it is just a word used over time meaning white foreigner, a nickname if you like and lots of cultures have such words. Are you aware of the Cornish word Emmet?

But I do think that Thais are a little xenophobic if not racist.

Would this stop me being here? No.

[maccaroni man]

well i can honestly say that i read about racism in the states and i lived during segrigation; blacks used different water fountains, windows at the concession stand and sat in the rear of the movie theater, but it wasnot until i arrived in bkk that i had people actully get up and move away from on the bus. btw i was in a suit and did not smell.

Um maybe they where being nice giving you more space? Plus if you are older people will move and duck out of your way out of respect.

You don't have to look into someone moving away from you to deep ... Geesh

I never met or seen people in my life so sensitive in my life untill I seen this message board. Seriously some people here that really believe they are gods gift to earth.

where does that come from? So i guess we are no longer able to understand body language or human behavior? as i posted in an earlier post the op's topic is everywhere in the world. so what? but to deny that it is present is simply not being honest with ones self and accepting the fact that predjudice is present has no bearing on how ones self awareness or makes them an ego maniac.