English Fluency Of Thais

[Hal65]

Hello,

What is the level of English fluency in Thailand?

I'd guess that most do not speak english. If this is the case, do English speaking thais demand significantly higher wages?

I'm debating between relocating my employee labor to either Thailand or the Philippines (yes, I'm looking into visa requirements and business restrictions). The philippines obviously has a great english speaking population but the unreliable electricity coverage severely weakens it as an option. Also, Thailand is more appealing on a personal level. I still need to assess the English and wage issues though.

Thanks

[Thongkorn]

I would say it is about the same as A falang living in Thailand speaking Thai. You get what you pay for in any country, You can get a degree educated Thai, but that will cost ..

[wolf5370]

Depends where you are. In big cities and tourist haunts most people can speak some English to varying levels. In Bangkok and, to a lesser extent probably, Chiang Mai you wil find more. Some educated overseas, some here at international schhols (or English Programs). The Philipies has much better general English though - that comes with having the US practically own you for several decades. Wages are low here compared to the west, even foe English speakers.

There are probably much greater issues than just language relocating a business here though, so make sure you know what you ae letting yourself in for.

P.S. Electricity sucks here too - in CM we get brown outs all the time. When I was in BKK a few years back, same, same.

[Hal65]

I would say it is about the same as A falang living in Thailand speaking Thai. You get what you pay for in any country, You can get a degree educated Thai, but that will cost ..

I apologize, I didn't understand your first sentence because of the terminology. How common would you say English fluency is?

Also if anyone else runs a business here I'd love an idea of costs for:

English Writers

English Customer Service Reps

System Administrators

English Speaking Managers

[thaicbr]

I would say it is about the same as A falang living in Thailand speaking Thai. You get what you pay for in any country, You can get a degree educated Thai, but that will cost ..

I apologize, I didn't understand your first sentence because of the terminology. How common would you say English fluency is?

Also if anyone else runs a business here I'd love an idea of costs for:

English Writers What do you mean exactly?

English Customer Service Reps To give you an idea, My girlfriend is a Customer service rep (4 English speaking companies as customers) She earns 26,000b per mth (and her English is good but not excellent)

System Administrators What do you mean exactly?

English Speaking Managers At what level, How many people to manage, do you want someone with imagination?

To add to this. English is fairly fluent in those Thais that can be bothered. It is not like the Philippines where most near every one speaks English. I would say you may need to invest in a company English program if you want company wide Fluent English speakers. There are other things as well many Thais find it hard to think outside the box.

Edited August 19, 2010 by thaicbr

[dumball]

After living in Thailand for 7 years , I am sorry to say thier profficiency in English is not the greatest on average that one could expect , the most noticeable thing lacking is in the understanding of English . As has been stated , good overall profficiency is available , but the cost would not be as reasonable as one would expect , but once again the understanding would be the defining acceptance .

[Hal65]

hmm... those wages for a CSR are significantly higher than in PI. And if you guys get frequent brownouts then maybe the Philippines is the better option.

How often are you guys getting brownouts in your areas?

Edited August 19, 2010 by Delta223

[CanInBKK]

I would say it is about the same as A falang living in Thailand speaking Thai. You get what you pay for in any country, You can get a degree educated Thai, but that will cost ..

System Administrators What do you mean exactly?

By system admins are you referring to the world of IT? If so then a system admin here could range anywhere from Bt40-90+k/month depending on certifications and experience. You wouldn't be planning on opening/relocating a call center would you? Hmmm......

[kevozman1]

I am not into business but just thinking if like someone said on this thread you

would pay your staff around 26,000 baht a month would it be possible to employ

western people. If fluent English speaking is very important then this would seem

a good option and generally speaking I think western people have a better attitude

towards work.

You may think a lot of western people would not work full time for 26,000 baht a month

and in the west they would not but I am sure plenty would if it meant they could stay

permanantely in Thailand. Only problem would be whether hiring a group of foreigners

is legal, I really do not know but I am sure some one will enlighten me.

Good luck.

[inthepink]

Brownouts and power cuts in Bangkok that I have experienced generally last no more than a few seconds. Thailand is more developed than the Philippines for sure and, generally speaking, safer.

Edited August 19, 2010 by inthepink

[Hal65]

By system admins are you referring to the world of IT? If so then a system admin here could range anywhere from Bt40-90+k/month depending on certifications and experience. You wouldn't be planning on opening/relocating a call center would you? Hmmm......

I do not need advanced credentials for a system admin. I'm not in the call center business but I do need a customer service person.

I make extensive use of SOPs so I don't require high levels of creativity (otherwise I wouldn't hire outside of the US) On the other hand, I do expect a certain level of competence especially from my manager, which from the sound of things may be asking a lot of Thais.

No way I could depend solely on foreigners living in Thailand for labor. That kind of dependence is a recipe for problems.

Sigh. Maybe I'll have to go to PI and spend the money on generators.

[DP25]

How often are you guys getting brownouts in your areas?

Uhh, never. If you need some cheap English speakers maybe you can import some Filipinos, they're always eager to get out

[inthepink]

I make extensive use of SOPs so I don't require high levels of creativity (otherwise I wouldn't hire outside of the US) On the other hand, I do expect a certain level of competence especially from my manager, which from the sound of things may be asking a lot of Thais.

No way I could depend solely on foreigners living in Thailand for labor. That kind of dependence is a recipe for problems.

Sigh. Maybe I'll have to go to PI and spend the money on generators.

If that's the way you are thinking about Thai people before you've even got here then I would definitely recommend going to the Philippines.

[Hal65]

I wasn't making a personal remark, just echoing what someone else said regarding Thai's having trouble thinking outside the box.

[inthepink]

I think some Westerners who live here mistake a reticence to shove one's opinion down everybody else's throat on the part of Thai people as meaning they don't have the ability to think for themselves. For sure the less well educated ones are not all that bright but I really haven't noticed a huge difference compared to the majority of people back home.

I think if some effort is put into the recruiting process then it wouldn't be all that much trouble to find competent staff, although if 26k baht is too much then forget anyone with an overseas education of course.

[chantorn]

What is the level of English fluency in Thailand? Very low. Just look at me.

However, our wages is also very low.

You get what you paid for, I suppose.

[inthepink]

Well you're not helping the cause are you?

[CanInBKK]

I think you could get by with industry standard UPS, no need for generators in Thailand (unless you're looking for 6-sigma uptime). In my 4 years in Bangkok I've only experienced 1 brown out for the entire time and it lasted less than 30 minutes (and in all fairness it was during the night of red shirt violence in which I was residing on Asoke Road, a curfew was in effect and the Stock Exchange was on fire)

[Travel2003]

Maybe the OP should first visit the country he consider relocating his employee labor to?

How does the OP know Thailand is more appealing on a personal level if he has never been here?

[mark45y]

How often are you guys getting brownouts in your areas?

Uhh, never. If you need some cheap English speakers maybe you can import some Filipinos, they're always eager to get out

There are thousands of Filipinos and African English teachers already here working for peanuts. I am sure they would be available.

[PattayaParent]

My company employs university educated Thais as secretaries with salaries starting around 25k Baht a month. They would be able to do the customer service rep job.

English writers? Do you mean translators? Or creative writers? Even their level of English is good our staff are not good as translators as they are not technical and just transliterate. The better paid Western uni grad got around 50k a month but again technical translations were not accurate and needed an engineers review.

Managers you may get around 40k+ a month if administrative, if technical you'd need a qualification and then you're talking higher salaries.

All depends on the nature of your business and I should qualify the above that the company is a major MNC in it's field so salaries may be above the norm as we have above the norm staff.

Edit: I've also worked in companies where the level of spoken English is not good and the staff salary level has been around 12~15k.

Edited August 20, 2010 by PattayaParent

[JakeK]

At the English school I work at our college educated nearly 100% fluent Thai's earn 16-18k per month. These numbers are also true of our competition.

[Berkshire]

To the OP: Your question(s) are really too vague. Of course you can find relatively good English speaking Thais in Thailand. However, the Filipinos win hands down when it comes to English proficiency overall (on average). Most Filipinos speak some English, while most Thais do not (at a conversational level).

But that can't be your only criteria (save the power outage thing). When it comes to nearly everything else, Thailand wins hands down. If you want low wages with a large number of educated English speakers, forget the PI or Thailand. Go to India.

[bkkjames]

To the OP: Your question(s) are really too vague. Of course you can find relatively good English speaking Thais in Thailand. However, the Filipinos win hands down when it comes to English proficiency overall (on average). Most Filipinos speak some English, while most Thais do not (at a conversational level).

But that can't be your only criteria (save the power outage thing). When it comes to nearly everything else, Thailand wins hands down. If you want low wages with a large number of educated English speakers, forget the PI or Thailand. Go to India.

Most Thais don't? Certainly not my experience of the last decade. I work in Communications and from staff to clients almost all speak English - perhaps not the maids, drivers and 711 staff so much - but in the office environment for sure. However, don't let fancy degrees in English fool you or be the determining factor in which staff you hire. I would take one on with lesser English but with the ability to think for his/ herself over a fluent one that sits and sits and waits for you to tell them it's ok to turn on their computer.

Edited August 20, 2010 by bkkjames

[thaicbr]

"I think if some effort is put into the recruiting process then it wouldn't be all that much trouble to find competent staff, although if 26k baht is too much then forget anyone with an overseas education of course"

This is what i was trying to get over to the OP. As for the other guy stating about shoving down your throat. thats not what i meant, I meant that a lot of Thais work and think to fixed parameters and it needs a bit more work to get them to open up. I am not refering to western educated Thais as they seem to be out of the Op's price range.

As for power outages very uncommon in the more populated areas (unless some bastard has stolen the wire)

As for my girlfriend on 26,000b. she works 8am until 5pm contracted but usually does unpaid overtime until 7-8pm and works 6 days a week. Will the Philips do that?

[KunMatt]

I've never met any Thai's in Thailand who are fluent in English. Look at all the Thai women who have been married to a farang for 30 years and how bad their level still is. Even most Thai English teachers here have a shocking grasp on the pronounciation.

If you've ever tried to learn Thai yourself you will understand that it's because there is no 100% transliteraion between Thai and English, so while there are many vowel and consonants that sound similar there is no direct way to translate a lot of the sounds between the two languages properly. This is why anyone trying to learn Thai has to learn how to read and write the Thai alphabet first as we have nothing to equate to the 32 Thai vowels and 44 consonants in our own language. I think for an English person learning Thai and vice verser this very difficult as there is very little language transfer between the two. I'm really struggling to learn Thai in the 18 months I've been here and I picked up Russian and Mandarin without putting much effort in.

In Philippines Tagalog is something like 40% Spanish which means they already have an understanding of a Latin based language so it's much easier for Filipinas to learn and speak English fluently. Not only that but it but they seem to truely understand where you are coming from, it doen't feel like you are hanging out with Asian's when you talk to Filipinas, it's like talking to Europeans.

Many will flame me saying that they know 1 Thai who is fluent in English but that is not the norm for every internation company representative/singer/whoever that I have spoken to.

[F1fanatic]

I think some Westerners who live here mistake a reticence to shove one's opinion down everybody else's throat on the part of Thai people as meaning they don't have the ability to think for themselves. For sure the less well educated ones are not all that bright but I really haven't noticed a huge difference compared to the majority of people back home.

I think if some effort is put into the recruiting process then it wouldn't be all that much trouble to find competent staff, although if 26k baht is too much then forget anyone with an overseas education of course.

That's says far more about you (and where you came from) than anyone else.....

In my experience, the Fillipinos are far more fluent in English but are even more likely to rob you blind given a chance.

[Thakkar]

I can't sleep, so I thought about this. I'd like to just make a general comment on English proficiency, because this is a perennial topic in East and SE Asia.

When it comes to livelihood issues, most people are pretty rational.

Time is a currency as much as money, and people have limited amounts of both. For Thai's, whose mother tongue is tonal and that has a relatively simple grammatical structure compared to English, the money and time investment needed to master English is substantial. However, given sufficient incentives, more Thai's would certainly work harder to become more proficient in English. In short, general English proficiency is a function of need; Thai workers have exactly the proficiency that employers are willing to pay for.

If the pay incentive were bigger, more Thai's would invest more time and money to become more proficient. And at that point, we would also have exactly the proficiency that employers were willing to pay for.

T

[astral]

IME educated Thais can read English, but speaking it is another matter.

The problem is that the teachers cannot speak, so what hope do the students have.

There are a few exceptions, but not many.

[GuestHouse]

Also if anyone else runs a business here I'd love an idea of costs for:

English Writers

English Customer Service Reps

System Administrators

English Speaking Managers

I'm presuming that you are going to need someone who can speak with native English Speaking Customers or deal with English Language written queries / contracts and documentation.

In which case you can expect to pay over Bht50K per month - but you'd also have to be offering a whole lot of other 'benefits' that you'll not understand until you've been in Thailand for a while.

My best advice is get in touch with one of the Thailand based business consultants who can advise you on all your questions, but more importantly can help you recruit the right staff for your business and help you set up, legally and operationally.

I'd also advise that you get hold of a copy of 'StartUp and Stay Up in Thailand' ISBN 9748658082 - It will give you a good overview of starting a business in Thailand and reveal to you some of the very many pitfalls.

I also think you need to examine why you want to move your business to Thailand - You have mentioned it might be more personally attractive to you.

Now here's a caution - I've worked in Thailand on four occasions totaling over twelve years, it is my observation that to be successful here one needs to be very clear of the reasons why you are here. If your reasons are work, business and you focus on making your work business a success then with perhaps more hard work than required at home you very likely will make a go of it.

If your reason for being here is to enjoy the good life in Thailand and you make a concerted effort to enjoy the 'good' life in Thailand, then with a perhaps a bit more luck than you''d need at home you might very well have a good life in Thailand.

If you fudge these two issues, or convince yourself that the standards of living a good life you'd follow at home don't apply here then you'll almost certainly crash and burn.

If you are not sure on that one, leave your business at home and come for a holiday.

But whatever you do - If you do move your business to Thailand - DO NOT EVER EVER EVER employ anyone in the business who you are romantically attached to. You might break that rule if you meet the love of your life at work and things go on from there. BUT if you meet the love of your life in Thailand and she's from anywhere else other than a professional business background then do no let her or any member of her family near your business.

No, even then, keep 'Your Business' as 'Your Business'.

Edited August 21, 2010 by GuestHouse