Thai Citizenship By Descent

[bermondburi]

I am a male foreigner and I have two children that were born in Thailand and are Thai. I know that under Thai law ( and pretty much all countries' laws ) if a Thai woman has a child outside of Thailand then she can automatically pass on Thai nationality to the child. Is the law the same for a Thai man and does the Thai man have to be married if the woman was a foreigner. I know that under UK law, things changed in 2006 whereby fathers could pass on nationality more easily. The reason I am asking is this. If in the future my two boys marry or not and have children with a foreign woman, can they still pass on Thai nationality to a child that would in effect be only a quarter Thai ? Are there any rules about this kind of thing and does anybody have any experience of this? Both my children have my surname and already look more like a foreigner in skin colour and facial features so if the genes carried on this way their children wouldn't really have any Thai features. Just wondering about the Thai government position. I'm sure they would love it if what was pretty much a foreigner could be Thai through descent.

[Mario2008]

Under current Thai nationality law your children and their children and their children etc. pass on Thai nationality to their children. The only factor is that one of the (legal) parents is Thai.

[Tim207]

Under current Thai nationality law your children and their children and their children etc. pass on Thai nationality to their children. The only factor is that one of the (legal) parents is Thai.

A little off topic but, what makes someone Thai? For instance, if your Thai grandparents didn't register your parents with the Thai government can you still claim Thai citizenship if you can prove the line of descent? If so does that go in perpetuity? I looked into this a few years back for Irish citizenship and it only went for a generation or two as I recall. After that you can not claim citizenship.

[bermondburi]

Under current Thai nationality law your children and their children and their children etc. pass on Thai nationality to their children. The only factor is that one of the (legal) parents is Thai.

Does it make any difference whether the baby is born inside Thailand , therefore being Thai by birth or being born outside of Thailand and being Thai by descent. Interestingly enough I was talking to a guy in the office about this earlier and he told me of a half-Thai male he knew ( having British citizenship by descent, born outside of the UK ) , who when married and having a baby with a Thai woman had to go back to the UK for the baby to gain British citizenship. So I suppose I should also ask what are the UK rules on all of this?

[bermondburi]

Under current Thai nationality law your children and their children and their children etc. pass on Thai nationality to their children. The only factor is that one of the (legal) parents is Thai.

A little off topic but, what makes someone Thai? For instance, if your Thai grandparents didn't register your parents with the Thai government can you still claim Thai citizenship if you can prove the line of descent? If so does that go in perpetuity? I looked into this a few years back for Irish citizenship and it only went for a generation or two as I recall. After that you can not claim citizenship.

Good point. What does make someone Thai. Regarding your point I am guessing that the parents would have to be registered before the child claimed citizenship but if they were dead this might be very hard to do. If nationality can be passed on so long as one of the parents is Thai then in theory this could go on for ever with the amount of Thai in the child getting less and less if they were having children with non-Thais.. There could be a non-Thai prime minister ( genetically) before you know it.

[Mario2008]

For a Thai it doesn't matter where one is born, if one of the parents was Thai at the moment the child was born than the child is Thai.

Thai is a nationality, not a race.

[bermondburi]

For a Thai it doesn't matter where one is born, if one of the parents was Thai at the moment the child was born than the child is Thai.

Thai is a nationality, not a race.

So if that is the rules under Thai law what are the UK rules? If a British by descent male, married to a Thai, had to go back to the UK for their child to gain UK citizenship then I take it that the UK laws are not the same as the Thai laws. Does anyone have any direct experience of this, from what has happened to them or people they know personally?

[bonobo]

Vanessa Mae received her Thai citizenship so she can compete in the 2014 Olympics as a skier because her biological father is Thai (her Chinese mother later remarried a Brit and Vanessa grew up in the UK.)

Of course, having 32 million pounds in the bank by age 30 and being called the UK's most successful under-30 entertainer might have had just a little to do with her getting her citizenship while still retaining her UK one.  

[Mario2008]

The UK has indeed different rules, but I'm not sure of the exact rules for the UK.

The UK allows dual nationality and you give British nationality to your offspring, but under certain conditions: One of the parents (or is it grandparents) must have been born in the UK to pass on British nationality.

I'm sure someone is going to correct me on this. You might ask your question regarding British nationality rules in the visa for other countries section.

[samran]

Vanessa Mae received her Thai citizenship so she can compete in the 2014 Olympics as a skier because her biological father is Thai (her Chinese mother later remarried a Brit and Vanessa grew up in the UK.)

Of course, having 32 million pounds in the bank by age 30 and being called the UK's most successful under-30 entertainer might have had just a little to do with her getting her citizenship while still retaining her UK one.  

Not really, she is eligble for Thai citizenship having been born to at least one parent, and she'd get it regardless. Neither Thailand or the UK have any problems in keeping more than one citizenship.

I didn't get my Thai birth certificate until 1992, nearly two decades after I was born. My bank account at that time wouldn't have amounted to more than a couple of hundred dollars!

To answer the OP's question, as long as one parent is a Thai citizen, then the child will always be a Thai citizen, regarless of place of birth.

This is indeed different to many other countries, where a child born outside the 'home' country can't usually pass on that citizenship if their children were subsequently born outside of the 'home' country as well.

I believe Ireland lets citizenship pass down two generations outside of Ireland (ie one grandparent born in ireland gets you an Irish Passport).

Australia lets a foreign born "citizen by descent" pass on citizenship outside of the country so long as that "citizen by descent" has lived cummulatively for 2 years in Australia. NZ is similar, except you must have lived in NZ for 5 years.

[bermondburi]

Vanessa Mae received her Thai citizenship so she can compete in the 2014 Olympics as a skier because her biological father is Thai (her Chinese mother later remarried a Brit and Vanessa grew up in the UK.)

Of course, having 32 million pounds in the bank by age 30 and being called the UK's most successful under-30 entertainer might have had just a little to do with her getting her citizenship while still retaining her UK one.

Not really, she is eligble for Thai citizenship having been born to at least one parent, and she'd get it regardless. Neither Thailand or the UK have any problems in keeping more than one citizenship.

I didn't get my Thai birth certificate until 1992, nearly two decades after I was born. My bank account at that time wouldn't have amounted to more than a couple of hundred dollars!

To answer the OP's question, as long as one parent is a Thai citizen, then the child will always be a Thai citizen, regarless of place of birth.

This is indeed different to many other countries, where a child born outside the 'home' country can't usually pass on that citizenship if their children were subsequently born outside of the 'home' country as well.

I believe Ireland lets citizenship pass down two generations outside of Ireland (ie one grandparent born in ireland gets you an Irish Passport).

Australia lets a foreign born "citizen by descent" pass on citizenship outside of the country so long as that "citizen by descent" has lived cummulatively for 2 years in Australia. NZ is similar, except you must have lived in NZ for 5 years.

Thankyou for the information. From what you and other people are saying I'm taking it that for my childrens' children to have dual nationality they will have to be born in the UK as they wouldn't qualify for British by descent and they can be Thai regardless of where they are born so it wouldn't matter being born in the UK. Case solved !

[samran]

Thankyou for the information. From what you and other people are saying I'm taking it that for my childrens' children to have dual nationality they will have to be born in the UK as they wouldn't qualify for British by descent and they can be Thai regardless of where they are born so it wouldn't matter being born in the UK. Case solved !

Pretty much. I guess the only caveat(so far as I understand the law) is that if your kids marry a Brit "otherwise by descent" (ie born in the UK, or naturalised as a Brit), then the spouse will be able to pass down citizenship to your grandkids, regardless of place of birth. I stand to be corrected.

One of our members "The Scouser" is an registered immigration expert on these issues.

[Heng]

Vanessa Mae received her Thai citizenship so she can compete in the 2014 Olympics as a skier because her biological father is Thai (her Chinese mother later remarried a Brit and Vanessa grew up in the UK.)

Of course, having 32 million pounds in the bank by age 30 and being called the UK's most successful under-30 entertainer might have had just a little to do with her getting her citizenship while still retaining her UK one.  

Not really, she is eligble for Thai citizenship having been born to at least one parent, and she'd get it regardless. Neither Thailand or the UK have any problems in keeping more than one citizenship.

I didn't get my Thai birth certificate until 1992, nearly two decades after I was born. My bank account at that time wouldn't have amounted to more than a couple of hundred dollars!

To answer the OP's question, as long as one parent is a Thai citizen, then the child will always be a Thai citizen, regarless of place of birth.

This is indeed different to many other countries, where a child born outside the 'home' country can't usually pass on that citizenship if their children were subsequently born outside of the 'home' country as well.

I believe Ireland lets citizenship pass down two generations outside of Ireland (ie one grandparent born in ireland gets you an Irish Passport).

Australia lets a foreign born "citizen by descent" pass on citizenship outside of the country so long as that "citizen by descent" has lived cummulatively for 2 years in Australia. NZ is similar, except you must have lived in NZ for 5 years.

Samran, any idea where the 'you must pick your nationality by age 21 (or something)' rule/rumor comes from?

Have heard that on more than a few occasions from amphur officials. Regardless I didn't get my Thai id card until I was 21 and my sister didn't get hers until she was 30! No issues.

[samran]

Samran, any idea where the 'you must pick your nationality by age 21 (or something)' rule/rumor comes from?

Have heard that on more than a few occasions from amphur officials. Regardless I didn't get my Thai id card until I was 21 and my sister didn't get hers until she was 30! No issues.

It comes from the misreading of the law.

The law says something along the lines of those born to one foreign parent, if they wish to keep their foreign nationality, should apply between ages 20 and 21 to renounce Thai nationality.

So you see, people assume that you 'must' make a choice, when the law only opens a one year window up. If you don't make a decision, then there is no penalty under law.

I beleive in your case, being born on US soil, you are a dual citizen without even your parents being 'foreign'. So that particular clause doesn't even apply to you.

Edited August 21, 2010 by samran

[Heng]

thanks for the info, as usual.

[bermondburi]

Vanessa Mae received her Thai citizenship so she can compete in the 2014 Olympics as a skier because her biological father is Thai (her Chinese mother later remarried a Brit and Vanessa grew up in the UK.)

Of course, having 32 million pounds in the bank by age 30 and being called the UK's most successful under-30 entertainer might have had just a little to do with her getting her citizenship while still retaining her UK one.

Not really, she is eligble for Thai citizenship having been born to at least one parent, and she'd get it regardless. Neither Thailand or the UK have any problems in keeping more than one citizenship.

I didn't get my Thai birth certificate until 1992, nearly two decades after I was born. My bank account at that time wouldn't have amounted to more than a couple of hundred dollars!

To answer the OP's question, as long as one parent is a Thai citizen, then the child will always be a Thai citizen, regarless of place of birth.

This is indeed different to many other countries, where a child born outside the 'home' country can't usually pass on that citizenship if their children were subsequently born outside of the 'home' country as well.

I believe Ireland lets citizenship pass down two generations outside of Ireland (ie one grandparent born in ireland gets you an Irish Passport).

Australia lets a foreign born "citizen by descent" pass on citizenship outside of the country so long as that "citizen by descent" has lived cummulatively for 2 years in Australia. NZ is similar, except you must have lived in NZ for 5 years.

Samran, any idea where the 'you must pick your nationality by age 21 (or something)' rule/rumor comes from?

Have heard that on more than a few occasions from amphur officials. Regardless I didn't get my Thai id card until I was 21 and my sister didn't get hers until she was 30! No issues.

I had heard about this as well so I wanted to know what the actual law was. I recently got my childrens' Thai passports done and while we were there I asked the woman doing the application what the law was and she said that as far as Thailand was concerned there was no having to choose nationality at ( I thought )18. That's from the people at the passport office so I would hope they would know.

On a side issue I have got to say how impressed I was by the passport office. I went there with all the documents I thought they might need prepared, for a long day and they didn't really want any of them and we were in and out in about forty minutes with the passports ready to pick up in two days. All for 1000 Baht. Very good value seeing how the UK one is now 6500Baht ! Very good service and very efficient staff.