House Build

[jimmym40]

Hi,

Through the course of my stay in Thailand, I've designed/built three homes in various locations. Wife and I are now looking around the area of Nong Hoi (not far from the four-way intersection and overpass. It's the closet we've ever found with some plots nearest town. I have not yet made a deal on the land. Thought I would throw this out and see if anyone else is interested. The plots are nearly square and range from 75 - 105 talang wah. We were quoted the price of the plot to be 15,000 baht a talang wah, but we haven't bargained as yet. I hope to get the plot for 13,000 a talang wah. And if two polts were sold together, maybe even less.

If there are any farangs out there interested, please pm me. We are an elderly couple and looking to build around 130 sq meter single floor home. I've done three single levels in the past and have a few floor plans you can review. I'm looking to build a nice western style home and the completed price tag would range from 2.6-3.0 million baht (land and house).

PM with any questions and if seriously interested, we can meet at my current home here in San Kamphaeng.

Cheers.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Need to check out flooding issues in that area. Fortunately this is the season to do that. (Not saying flooding will be an issue, but for that particular area it should be on the checklist)

Another comment: If it's really a dream home then I wouldn't be mucking about with 75 sq. wa plots. For a (close to) city area dream home that would be a 400 sq wa plot, or perhaps 200 sq wa for a slightly dryer dream.

13K sq wa may be a little on the high side. It's not outrageous because a gated development would actually charge the 15 or even 17K in that area, but it's not the bargain of the century either. (Assuming this is not a gated development?)

Finally as a point of interest (and potential pet-peeve ) : How does a 'Farang' style home differ from any modern Thai home? Mostly the only differences I see may be in the the kitchen equipment, choice of lighting and other final touches. None of these would be included in the build budget. And on the prices mentioned It doesn't seem that things like central airconditioning and hot/cold water throughout would be on the menu either?

Edited August 22, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[jimmym40]

Some good comments above. Okay, I've overstated the "dream house" thing. But a couple like us, in our 60s, don't need much.

Take a look at Palm Springs URBANA. I know it's a developed project, but their lot prices are 25,000 baht a sq wah.

I've been keen on housing prices, locations and builds around Lamphun and Chiang Mai for many years. It all depends on the location what you get. I am aware of the Nong Hoi area and possible flooding. If you care to be within walking distance of markets, food, banks, etc, this is a pretty good location for that without having to pay even twice as much to locate something within the city (which is nearly impossible) unless you go for a condo.

We currently have central air in our home now. And I wouldn't have it again. With individual units, you have more options to use for certain area (don't have to cool entire house). Don't need hot water throughout the house. Bathrooms and kichen can be individually heated.

More comments welcome.

[doppa]

tell you what including photos of the other projects you've done wouldnt be a bad idea, obviously you've got through the whole processes of who owns what in this country then, not that i'm starting the whole debate again.

[Beetlejuice]

I know the area well. My girlfriend has relatives there.

The area is prone to flooding. 4 years ago some of it was under 2 metres of water when the Ping river over run it`s banks and still has flooding problems during the rainy season

13000 baht per wah is rather high for that area. About 11000 baht per wah or 9000 baht per wah for larger plots of land is a more realistic price.

Is the OP married to a farang or a Thai? Can he legally purchase this land if asking others to share with him? Is this land in a defined residentual area? Otherwise you could end up with a bus station or factory estate as your next door neighbor. This is what happened to my girlfriend`s cousin.

10 years ago a farang I knew tried to sell me a 1 rai plot of land in Mai Rim. I made some checks and discovered that the price was highly inflated and that the land was owned by his Thai brother in law.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Beetlejuice

[iainiain101]

I know the area well. My girlfriend has relatives there.

The area is prone to flooding. 4 years ago some of it was under 2 metres of water when the Ping river over run it`s banks and still has flooding problems during the rainy season

13000 baht per wah is rather high for that area. About 11000 baht per wah or 9000 baht per wah for larger plots of land is a more realistic price.

Is the OP married to a farang or a Thai? Can he legally purchase this land if asking others to share with him? Is this land in a defined residentual area? Otherwise you could end up with a bus station or factory estate as your next door neighbor. This is what happened to my girlfriend`s cousin.

10 years ago a farang I knew tried to sell me a 1 rai plot of land in Mai Rim. I made some checks and discovered that the price was highly inflated and that the land was owned by his Thai brother in law.

So did the area flood in 2005 and 2006?

[gotlost]

About 2 meters worth on the east side of the river.

Flood mitigation for Chiang Mai - is it a possibility?

A retired Civil Engineer

Dams

There are no dams on the Ping River north of Chiang Mai. (Contrary to popular misconception.)

The Ping River rises at the Burmese border north of Chiang Dao, which is itself due north of Chiang Mai. The source is about 120 km from Chiang Mai, maybe about 160 km measured along the river. The river flows past Chiang Dao, Mae Taeng and Mae Rim, before reaching Chiang Mai. Many streams and small rivers join it en route.

Opposite Mae Taeng the Ping River is joined from the East by the Ngat River. This river drains the Phrao valley. This river has a dam, just above where it joins the Ping River. The dam is known as Mae Ngat Dam. It is an earth fill dam, about 59 m high, and includes a 9 MW power station, commissioned in 1985 and operated by EGAT. The dam is reported as being 100% full in 2001 and 2002.

Rumours that the structure of the Mae Ngat dam is structurally suspect may be based on misconceptions. It is possible that those responsible for the dam wish to prevent it being over-topped. If this were to happen, the down stream face could be damaged by water flowing down it. So it is possible that water is released from the dam, not because of doubts about the strength of the dam itself, but simply to prevent it from being over-topped.

Just north of the town of Mae Taeng the Ping River is joined by the Mae Taeng River. This is a large river; its source is also near the Burmese border, north of Wieng Haeng. The Mae Taeng and its tributaries drain the large area on the west side of Chiang Dao Mountain. This area stretches to the border with Mae Hong Son province.

There is a small dam on the Mae Taeng River. This is used to bleed water off into the irrigation canal which runs down the West side of the Chiang Mai flood plain, past the 700 year stadium and southwards to Hang Dong.

The only other significant dam north of Chiang Mai is the Mae Kuang dam, just north of Doi Saket. This dam is older than the Mae Ngat Dam. It has never been full. The in-flow during the wet season cannot keep up with the draw off for irrigation during the dry season. The dam serves the irrigation canals which run on the east and central areas of the Chiang Mai flood plain. There are plans to build a pipeline for the Mae Ngat dam to help fill the Mae Kuang Dam. Water from the Mae Kuang Dam eventually reaches the Ping River south of Chiang Mai.

Ping River Gradients

The gradient of the Ping River between Chiang Dao and Mae Taeng is about 2 metres per kilometre, from Mae Taeng to Mae Rim it is about 1 metre per kilometre and from Mae Rim to Chiang Mai it is only 4 metres in 20 kilometres, which is on a par with the Mississippi. So water flows over this stretch are slow. If the river is obliged to carry more water than normal it can only do this by increasing its height. The laws of hydraulics dictate that this will increase the speed of flow, but not by much.

Land Levels

The walled centre of Chiang Mai is at about 310 metres asl (above sea level). The 310 m contour runs from Tapae Gate to the south west corner. The north west corner is about 312 m. asl, the South East corner is about 309 m. asl. The riverbank along the Ping River close to Chiang Mai town is about 306 m asl. (Which explains why the flood water last weekend reached about half way along Loi Kroh.)

The 310 m. contour crosses the Ping River opposite Mae Rim.

To the east of Chiang Mai, land levels fall! Bo Sang is about 295 m. asl. San Kamphaeng is about 300 m asl. So, land levels in the centre of the flood plain are lower than land levels immediately adjacent to the Ping River. How can this be?

Flood Plains

Chiang Mai is in a flood plain. A characteristic of flood plains is that they flood periodically. Otherwise they wouldn’t be there in the first place. This will have been happening in the Chiang Mai flood plain over the past 50 million years or so. When the river in a flood plain overflows its banks, sediment is deposited on the adjacent land, causing its level to rise. (Up to 200 years ago there were no gangs of labourers available to wash the mud away.) The land close to the Ping River has probably been increasing in height by about 1 metre every 200 years.

Recognising that the land around Bo Sang is 10 metres lower than the banks of the Ping River near Chiang Mai, it may well be that, at some time in the future, the Ping River will decide to abandon its present route close to Chiang Mai town and take the easier option of flowing down the centre of the flood plain and through Bo Sang. This will take some of the charm away from the Riverside Restaurant - which will need a new name. Man-made measures to prevent this happening could well be very expensive.

Inhabitation of Flood Plains

Flood plains are fertile and therefore attract human settlement. Early inhabitants may well have been more ready to recognise the risks from floods than their modern successors. Their houses are likely to have been built on stilts or on locally raised ground - and they won’t have had basements or underground car parks.

Insurance companies seem to be well aware of the risks to property in flood plains and exclude flooding from their property policies.

What can be done?

More dams up-stream would certainly help by holding back storm water and allowing its later controlled release. But dams are unpopular with environmentalists and, understandably, with the people who would be displaced by their construction and impounding. Maybe one could be hidden on the Mae Taeng River in the valley to the West of Chiang Dao.

Otherwise, not a lot! At least, not a lot without damaging the charms of the river outside the wet season. If the river is extensively dredged it would be able to carry more water without flooding after heavy rains up-stream but the water level would be pretty low for most of the dry season. Frequent mini-barrages would avoid this but these can cause problems when flows are high.

The riverbanks could be built up, aka the Mississippi levees, at substantial cost and with the destruction of much present riverside property and with the end result that the river would be difficult to see, except from bridges.

In the short term, owners or occupiers of property near the Ping River should hold a good stock of sand bags and mops. The August 2005 floods are unlikely to be the last.

<A name=hd2>China’s march

[Beetlejuice]

I know the area well. My girlfriend has relatives there.

The area is prone to flooding. 4 years ago some of it was under 2 metres of water when the Ping river over run it`s banks and still has flooding problems during the rainy season

13000 baht per wah is rather high for that area. About 11000 baht per wah or 9000 baht per wah for larger plots of land is a more realistic price.

Is the OP married to a farang or a Thai? Can he legally purchase this land if asking others to share with him? Is this land in a defined residentual area? Otherwise you could end up with a bus station or factory estate as your next door neighbor. This is what happened to my girlfriend`s cousin.

10 years ago a farang I knew tried to sell me a 1 rai plot of land in Mai Rim. I made some checks and discovered that the price was highly inflated and that the land was owned by his Thai brother in law.

So did the area flood in 2005 and 2006?

Yes and as I said some of it was under 2 metres of water, especially the parts that are set low. One house I can remember that stood below road level, the whole ground floor was submerged in water.

Many residents in the area now build their houses on high pillars, like the one pictured below.

Also in this country, be wary of property speculators that are out to make a quick buck. Have come across many of those here in my time.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Beetlejuice

[gotlost]

Just make sure you have a boat on standby if you live on the east side of the Ping. There will come a time.

[JimGant]

The only other significant dam north of Chiang Mai is the Mae Kuang dam, just north of Doi Saket. This dam is older than the Mae Ngat Dam. It has never been full.

Yeah? It sure was full in Dec 2005, when the water came over the spillway (haven't seen same since, however).

[gotlost]

The only other significant dam north of Chiang Mai is the Mae Kuang dam, just north of Doi Saket. This dam is older than the Mae Ngat Dam. It has never been full.

Yeah? It sure was full in Dec 2005, when the water came over the spillway (haven't seen same since, however).

Its called CYA for political reasons. The old boy received a pay raise and promotion to Bangkok for adding tremendously to the 05 flood.

[ChiangMai2]

The only other significant dam north of Chiang Mai is the Mae Kuang dam, just north of Doi Saket. This dam is older than the Mae Ngat Dam. It has never been full.

Yeah? It sure was full in Dec 2005, when the water came over the spillway (haven't seen same since, however).

Indeed, was up to the brim in 2005. My last visit was several months ago and the waterline must of been 30 meters below the tree line in the second picture, A lot of rain is needed! . Back on topic, the area you are looking at is a good spot in my opinion, good market, some nice restaurants and close to town. I would just make sure my first floor was 1metre above road level, which no doubt goes without saying if you've built before. Chok dee.

[jimmym40]

Yes, I am married to a Thai.

Absolutely NOT. I am not selling land or property.

I just thought I'd put out the call in case someone else is looking to build a home (their style) with enough room for furniture, adequate plugs in every room, covered patio and car port and all those things that the normal new thai house does not give you and that you have to "add on" after move in.

All those of you that say the price per talang wah is high. IT IS NOT. I've been searching for nearly 2 yrs. You absolutely will not find a plot of land closer to the city center than this area for the price.

Thanks all for the awareness of the flooding problem. I am well aware of it.

This is something no one will want to dive in to. Anyone interested pm me and we can start a discussion and go survey the area together...

[T_Dog]

Jimmy... Good luck to you! I think we are finally getting started too. Here's a rough sketch....... Two bedrooms, two bathrooms down with a garden/party area on the second floor just to keep the sun off the first floor. We found property two meters above the floods of 2005 after almost buying 2 meters under the floods of 2005!

Please post your concept and plans. Would love to compare notes.

[Cnxforever]

Nong Hoi has a bad reputation with Chiang Mai locals and it is as many here have pointed out prone to flooding. (Who doesn't remember the pictures that went around the world with APEC delegates being carried by hotel employees from and to their limousines because of the flooding)

Think you would be much better off buying in Doi Saket - beautiful plots available there. All residential - the locals have created a "Doi Saket Kiau" (Green Doi Saket) association - not allowing any large scale industrial projects. Mostly agriculture and stunning views of the surrounding mountains - yet all the utilities like water, electricity, phone lines and internet are there. It is only a 15 minute drive into the city on a 2 lane "highway". For 1.3 million you can easily get a 2 Rai plot there and don't have the neighbors staring into your windows.

Regarding so called "European" or "Farang" building standards - they do not exist here! All houses are built the same way in Thailand - the only difference are the way they are finished - depending of course on how much you want to spent for different materials. And kitchens or other interior fittings are usually never included in the building price anyway.

I am currently building my second house here - my "dream home" - and if anybody needs any advise or help regarding building here in Chiang Mai please send me a private message. I am glad to show you around on my site and can answer any questions you might have.

One thing I can tell you now - if you decide to built here - take your time, there will always be unexpected delays and never expect anything to be "perfect" - it will save you a lot of sleepless nights! Close to my site another Farangs "Dream" has turned into a nightmare - I wish I could have warned him in time - but by the time I heard his story it was sadly too late.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Jimmy... Good luck to you! I think we are finally getting started too. Here's a rough sketch....... Two bedrooms, two bathrooms down with a garden/party area on the second floor just to keep the sun off the first floor. We found property two meters above the floods of 2005 after almost buying 2 meters under the floods of 2005!

Please post your concept and plans. Would love to compare notes.

Interesting design, that should keep the downstairs area really cool. You'll get some rain water into the upstairs area as it doesn't seem the roof overhangs extend very far. You could put in some drains here and there to address that.

[T_Dog]

Jimmy... Good luck to you! I think we are finally getting started too. Here's a rough sketch....... Two bedrooms, two bathrooms down with a garden/party area on the second floor just to keep the sun off the first floor. We found property two meters above the floods of 2005 after almost buying 2 meters under the floods of 2005!

Please post your concept and plans. Would love to compare notes.

Interesting design, that should keep the downstairs area really cool. You'll get some rain water into the upstairs area as it doesn't seem the roof overhangs extend very far. You could put in some drains here and there to address that.

Thanks. The drains are a good idea. A friend has a wooden house similar to this and I am always amazed how cool his living area is. Keeping the sun off the ceiling and walls really helps.

[Bill97]

Jimmy... Good luck to you! I think we are finally getting started too. Here's a rough sketch....... Two bedrooms, two bathrooms down with a garden/party area on the second floor just to keep the sun off the first floor. We found property two meters above the floods of 2005 after almost buying 2 meters under the floods of 2005!

Please post your concept and plans. Would love to compare notes.

Plans look great. Have you sorted out the structural aspects/costs of the big overhangs and spans ?

[T_Dog]

Jimmy... Good luck to you! I think we are finally getting started too. Here's a rough sketch....... Two bedrooms, two bathrooms down with a garden/party area on the second floor just to keep the sun off the first floor. We found property two meters above the floods of 2005 after almost buying 2 meters under the floods of 2005!

Please post your concept and plans. Would love to compare notes.

Plans look great. Have you sorted out the structural aspects/costs of the big overhangs and spans ?

Bill, there will be pillars on the big overhangs, but I am going to work with a designer that's experienced with cantilevered floors. This is just the concept and floor plan that will be handed off to someone that knows what they are doing. I have a version that has the pillars put in to see what it looks like but I just didn't take any pics of the 3D view.

[tigerbeer]

Jimmy... Good luck to you! I think we are finally getting started too. Here's a rough sketch....... Two bedrooms, two bathrooms down with a garden/party area on the second floor just to keep the sun off the first floor. We found property two meters above the floods of 2005 after almost buying 2 meters under the floods of 2005!

Please post your concept and plans. Would love to compare notes.

Interesting design, that should keep the downstairs area really cool. You'll get some rain water into the upstairs area as it doesn't seem the roof overhangs extend very far. You could put in some drains here and there to address that.

Thanks. The drains are a good idea. A friend has a wooden house similar to this and I am always amazed how cool his living area is. Keeping the sun off the ceiling and walls really helps.

Hi T_dog,

Just managed to sell a couple copies of your plan on Ebay just now. thanks ! :)jk. looks great!

Edited August 23, 2010 by tigerbeer

[jimmym40]

T-Dog,

Where did you come up with the idea of the roof elevated above the house (living area). Kinda neat idea, wonder if one has ever been built here in Thailand. Could you share with the rest of us the floor plan? I was also wondering what type of roof would be on the living quarters. How many sq meters of living area? Have you cost out the amount it'll cost for land fill of your half rai rice field? Is there electrics to the planned build site? City water or will you have to drill a well? When you add it all these extra costs, the price per talang wah of land obviously goes up.

When do you plan to get started?

Hope it all goes as planned.

[MESmith]

 Have you cost out the amount it'll cost for land fill of your half rai rice field?    Is there electrics to the planned build site?   City water or will you have to drill a well?    When you add it all these extra costs, the price per talang wah of land obviously goes up.

Jimmy

On my wife's plot where we live out in the ricefields, 950 talang wa, the cost of bringing in electricity (about 300m) & transformer, 26m borehole + watertower, raising land where the house is above flood level, & rest of the land above ricefield level only raised the cost per talang wa by 350bt.  But I fully understand that you prefer to have a plot much closer to the city, walking distance to shops & banks etc.  Naturally that's going to cost a lot more per talang wa.  But it doesn't cost so much more to add electricity & water.

[Bill97]

Jimmy... Good luck to you! I think we are finally getting started too. Here's a rough sketch....... Two bedrooms, two bathrooms down with a garden/party area on the second floor just to keep the sun off the first floor. We found property two meters above the floods of 2005 after almost buying 2 meters under the floods of 2005!

Please post your concept and plans. Would love to compare notes.

Plans look great. Have you sorted out the structural aspects/costs of the big overhangs and spans ?

Bill, there will be pillars on the big overhangs, but I am going to work with a designer that's experienced with cantilevered floors. This is just the concept and floor plan that will be handed off to someone that knows what they are doing. I have a version that has the pillars put in to see what it looks like but I just didn't take any pics of the 3D view.

Sounds good. A guy who really knows roof truss design might help you to have fewer additional posts/pillars on the second floor.