Can I Be A 'Legal' Teacher

[gunnerterry]

I have been teaching in Thailand for 6 years now. I have a TEFL cerification i obtained in England and i have completed the Thai culture course. I would really like to be 'legal' but i don't have a degree. I have been looking at the route to obtain a teachers license but it is a little unclear and i think i need a degree also to go down this route. Is there any point in attempting to pass the professional knowledge tests without a degree? ( in fact not sure you can apply for these tests without a degree). If you are able to take and pass the professional knowledge test. Will this test certificate and a TEFL enable you to get a teachers licence, or do you still need a degree also? Sorry if my questions are obvious to most of you, but procedures continually change therefore any ideas or advice would be welcome.

[Scott]

Your questions are not obvious. At least not to me. Hopefully some posters will be able to answer your questions. I am also curious if you need to have a degree to take the tests--my guess is that you do, since the tests are sort of an 'upgrade' to an existing degree--giving you essentially the credits needed to teach. But I am not sure.

[aidenai]

These are the current requirements to sit The Teachers' Council of Thailand Professional Knowledge Test.

3.1 Applicant's Qualifications

(1) Be at least 20 years of age

(2) Hold a Bachelor's degree or an equivalent

(3) Not possess any of the prohibited characteristics pursuant to section 44b of the Teachers and Educational Personnel Council Act B.E.2003 (2546).

http://www.ksp.or.th...edge%20Test.pdf

[mizzi39]

It is my understanding that you do need a degree to take the tests. I have already taken them once. It is clearly stated on the application. We were also told to bring a copy the day of testing, however nothing was ever collected. Nothing!!!

I know that this prevented one of my colleagues from taking the tests, since he did not have a degree, but he had no problem getting a second 2 year waiver. TIT.

Things change here like the wind. I wonder how long before they realize how impractical these tests are. Just to give you an Idea-the area that I took my tests had 8 teachers on the first day of testing and only 2 teachers on the second. Hmm? Only 10 teachers needed this qualification? Not! Most people are just ignoring it, and getting new waivers. If you leave a school and get rehired at another school the waiver process starts all over again. So in theory if you get say three 2 year waivers totaling six years, and switch to another school, the process starts all over again. The Teachers council say in Korat has no way of knowing how many waivers or to who those waivers were granted to say in Rayong. Again TIT

As far as being legal search around the forum. There are many teachers working legally without a degree. If you have a director willing to go to bat for you, a simple letter to the TC stating that they are short of teachers, and you are needed usually does the trick. Good Luck.

Edited August 23, 2010 by mizzi39

[Phatcharanan]

The Teachers Council of Thailand now have their website in English.

It lists the full requirements and information about the 4 stage tests, degrees etc etc etc.

Click on 'Foreign teacher'.

You will need to have a PDF reader such as Adobe etc.

http://www.ksp.or.th/Khurusapha/en/

Edited August 23, 2010 by Phatcharanan

[Phatcharanan]

The Teachers council say in Korat has no way of knowing how many waivers or to who those waivers were granted to say in Rayong. Again TIT

Actually they do. It is the TCT that authorises the waivers.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Phatcharanan

[mizzi39]

The Teachers council say in Korat has no way of knowing how many waivers or to who those waivers were granted to say in Rayong. Again TIT

Actually they do. It is the TCT that authorises the waivers.

I stand corrected, but why are teachers getting new waivers after transferring to another school?

Edited August 23, 2010 by mizzi39

[Phatcharanan]

The waiver applies to a particular school. There has been 'talk' that license waivers can be applied for 2-3 perhaps 4 times. Maybe more. Who really knows.

I believe that they will continue to issue waivers if it can be shown that the teacher is taking steps to get themselves certified.

Applying to sit one of those stages in that knowledge test would certainly qualify for that.

Who knows how long this will continue for though.

[gunnerterry]

Thanks for the advice. Still undecided on the way forward. Have been teaching at the same school in Nakonsawan now for a few years. I stay in Thailand on a marriage visa renewed yearly. The school are very happy with me and would like me to stay a lot longer and i am more than happy to stay, just feel i should have a work permit, maybe i should just keep my 'head down' and see what happens and how these tests develop. With tests only twice a year the TCT are obviously not in a great rush!

[Scott]

Some areas seem to have to 'show some effort' toward compliance. We have teachers who have done nothing what-so-ever, and they continue to get the waivers. The waiver is good for 2 years and the last I had heard, they could be renewed 3 times.

[thaicbr]

Thanks for the advice. Still undecided on the way forward. Have been teaching at the same school in Nakonsawan now for a few years. I stay in Thailand on a marriage visa renewed yearly. The school are very happy with me and would like me to stay a lot longer and i am more than happy to stay, just feel i should have a work permit, maybe i should just keep my 'head down' and see what happens and how these tests develop. With tests only twice a year the TCT are obviously not in a great rush!

GT... have a look here this may be the way to go

http://www.ksp.or.th/Khurusapha/en/download/Provisional%20teaching%20permit.pdf

Also sent you a pm.

[Phatcharanan]

GT... have a look here this may be the way to go

http://www.ksp.or.th/Khurusapha/en/download/Provisional%20teaching%20permit.pdf

Post No. 5.

Try to keep up!

[thaicbr]

I am keeping up in fact  i linked to the actual page he needs to look at. Sorry i should have said this is from what Phatch put up in post 5.

Thank you Phatch (I do mean that , last time i looked at the Ks website it was a joke) 

[yeno]

Sorry I take over your post with my issue, but is related somehow and I don't want to open another thread and waste space. From what you way and what people answered here, I understand that many teacher work illegal?! As working without work permit is illegal, right?!

Also, it's still blur for me if foreigners can work legally as teachers or not, I mean teaching in government school, not private schools, which may have their own rules. If it is possible, what are the requirements for the foreigner teacher to get hired by the government school?

I'm asking this because this is my situation and I was thinking to start teaching as a second job: I own only a Bachelor Degree, no teaching qualifications and I'm not a native English speaker, however, I suppose my English is good enough to get a toefl and I'll get it is I'll be sure there's a chance to get legally employed. I'd like to teach for a medium school in a small village, where I plan to move soon, and I was told by a friend (Thai) teaching there that it will not be a problem for me to teach English, since they already have another Filipino working there. However, when I ask about the legal stuff, she told me something like this, to summarize: you will work without work permit and your salary will come from the extra money children will have to pay to the school, if the school decides to hire you; therefore, there's no yearly increase and if you start now with, let's say, 9k bath, after 5 years you will have the same (I'm not interested in money, I know is not much, don't need advices about that )

So, basically what I need is to work legal, with work permit and a non-O visa (I think that's the one). Now I'm on ED visa, learning Thai, but soon the school will finish and I don't want to continue it. So, to keep the topic, "Can I be a legal teacher, too?"

Thanks.

[Scott]

By all means try to be a legal teacher. You will likely have problems in the future that would be most unpleasant. If you have a degree, the school should have no trouble getting a waiver from the Teacher's Council on your behalf.

[Ijustwannateach]

The short answers are that it is not impossible for anyone posting on this thread to be a 'legal' teacher, but it all depends. There doesn't seem to be much consistency, even (or perhaps especially) in the way the TCT applies its own 'rules', which as several posters have pointed out even include the waiver exception.

I would cynically suggest that anything which tends to keep application fees coming in will tend to win the day- so if that means that giving more folks without degrees waivers so that application fees don't dwindle next year, then so be it. On the other hand, if there's some pressure for people to keep improving their skills and becoming more 'real' as well as more 'legal', then perhaps it's not all bad.

[tombkk]

I really think Thailand has enough teachers without a degree... How about getting a degree before trying to teach here?

Sorry if I'm being cynical but non-educated teachers cannot help the country getting educated, unless the country is really in utter need for some basic knowledge. I would think Thailand is past that.

What holds you back from getting an appropriate degree? Why do you even consider teaching without it? Would your home country approve of that?

Kindly let us know why you think you should teach without an appropriate degree, I would like to hear that.

[MB1]

I really think Thailand has enough teachers without a degree... How about getting a degree before trying to teach here?

Sorry if I'm being cynical but non-educated teachers cannot help the country getting educated, unless the country is really in utter need for some basic knowledge. I would think Thailand is past that.

What holds you back from getting an appropriate degree? Why do you even consider teaching without it? Would your home country approve of that?

Kindly let us know why you think you should teach without an appropriate degree, I would like to hear that.

I'll agree, you are IMO being cynical and also so putting down teachers who don't have a degree IMO, thing is you can teach in many countries without having a degree and who's to say who the best teacher is, the one with a degree or the one without one ?.

Some people may ask do I need a degree to teach English, basically the answer is, Yes and No because it actually depends where in the world where you actually teach as some countries may not issue a working visa to persons without a degree, but other countries will take on teachers with just a TELF or TESOL qualification and if your a EU citizen your able to teach English in plenty of EU countries with TELF and TESOL qualifications.

IMO problems with teaching in Asia is that the risks associated with teaching in Asia is that even though you can find schools willing to give you a job with just a TELF certificate and not having a degree it's probably likely that the job is illegal which can mean you have no rights and usually the pay is lower and you risk deportation or even worse if found working without a work permit..

Like I said earlier in this post, does having a degree make you a better teacher..???...And also, just because you don't have a degree, does that mean your uneducated..????....Kindly let me and others reading this thread know....

Edited September 11, 2010 by MB1

[Scott]

Although the question posted a couple of posts ago may be valid, it is not the topic of this thread, and therefore off-topic, or at least likely to move the topic in a direction which doesn't provide answers to the questions posed in the OP.

It is up to the gov't and relevant ministries of each country to set the standards for professions such as teaching. The granting of waivers in Thailand, and temporary licenses in other countries, including some developed ones, is not unheard of.

[BennyC]

Some of the worst teachers I've ever met here have been pretty well educated , even one with a Phd in science and he was terrible.

[skybluestu]

Some of the worst teachers I've ever met here have been pretty well educated , even one with a Phd in science and he was terrible.

Hear, hear. Educated doesn't mean intelligent!

I've met many shockingly bad teachers with degrees and I've met some fantastic teachers who don't have a degree. Having a degree doesn't mean you can teach, how would having a degree in fine art make you a good English conversation teacher?

[Scott]

A reminder again, to stay on topic.

The OP is wondering whether he can take the tests offered by the Teacher's Council if he doesn't have a degree. To be honest, I don't know, but I was under the impression that you had to have a degree first and the exams were to assist those without an education degree to upgrade or at least meet the equivalent requirements for an education degree.

Perhaps posters who have taken the exams can shed some light on this. Did you have to submit a degree to qualify for the tests?

[aidenai]

A reminder again, to stay on topic.

The OP is wondering whether he can take the tests offered by the Teacher's Council if he doesn't have a degree. To be honest, I don't know, but I was under the impression that you had to have a degree first and the exams were to assist those without an education degree to upgrade or at least meet the equivalent requirements for an education degree.

Perhaps posters who have taken the exams can shed some light on this. Did you have to submit a degree to qualify for the tests?

The rules are set. See my previous post. You MUST possess a bachelor's degree or equivalent when sitting the TCT Professional Knowledge tests.

Technically, you can sit the tests without having a degree as the proctors will only ask for your passport when sitting the tests.

But.........................at the online application you've certified that all information provided is true and that you possess the required qualifications including a bachelor's degree or equivalent. You also certified that you would submit several documents including copies of your degree when passing one or more sections of the tests in order to receive your certificates or actual teacher license.

The articles below might help:

3.2 Application Terms

(1) Each applicant can register only one-time action and will not be allowed to change any information.

(2) Each applicant must meet the qualification requirements according to Item 1. In addition, he or she must graduate and was granted a degree by the Graduate Council prior to the application deadline date. However, an applicant's graduation shall be deemed to be in compliance with the provisions of the graduation criteria set by the Law, Rule or Regulation of such applicant's institution.

(3) Each applicant must check and certify that he or she meets the qualifications according to the test application notification, as well as complete the required information truly. In the case of any error occurred by the applicant or later any applicant is found to be ineligible to take the test, the Sub-committee of Teaching Professional Knowledge Certification deems that he or she disqualify throughout. Therefore, the applicant will not receive a refund.

http://www.ksp.or.th...edge%20Test.pdf

[tombkk]

Some of the worst teachers I've ever met here have been pretty well educated , even one with a Phd in science and he was terrible.

Hear, hear. Educated doesn't mean intelligent!

I've met many shockingly bad teachers with degrees and I've met some fantastic teachers who don't have a degree. Having a degree doesn't mean you can teach, how would having a degree in fine art make you a good English conversation teacher?

A science degree doesn't qualify you to teach English. Of course, the degree has to be relevant.

Point-in-case: Being a native speaker doesn't qualify you to teach English. You need to have studied teaching methodology, be familiar with the Common European Framework of References for Languages, among other things.

I am surprised that several people on this forum think that teaching without a degree in teaching is OK.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm afraid I need to remind our viewers of one of the subforum guidlines:

8. Topics on the question of degrees/no degrees for teaching English or other subjects are currently restricted as they have been over-discussed and Thai government policy is not currently clear.

I don't mind this discussion of whether degrees *are* required or not for various qualifications, as it is certainly relevant to the interests of many members and also certainly unclear (and it is the topic of the thread). However, please do not take this thread off into a discussion of whether degrees *should be* required for various occupations and licenses. Since it has been awhile since we have had one, I would be willing to allow another (different) thread on such a topic if anyone wanted to start one, but having it here can only lead to off-topic flaming. That's the last moderating hint on this subject on this thread.

[skybluestu]

Some of the worst teachers I've ever met here have been pretty well educated , even one with a Phd in science and he was terrible.

Hear, hear. Educated doesn't mean intelligent!

I've met many shockingly bad teachers with degrees and I've met some fantastic teachers who don't have a degree. Having a degree doesn't mean you can teach, how would having a degree in fine art make you a good English conversation teacher?

A science degree doesn't qualify you to teach English. Of course, the degree has to be relevant.

Point-in-case: Being a native speaker doesn't qualify you to teach English. You need to have studied teaching methodology, be familiar with the Common European Framework of References for Languages, among other things.

I am surprised that several people on this forum think that teaching without a degree in teaching is OK.

Most people who will have studied the Common European Framework of References for Languages would probably be fully qualified teachers and would therefore be teaching at an International School earning 60k+++ baht per month. And if that's what you hope for then who would then work at the many government schools, private schools, language schools etc that pay 25-40k per month?

[aidenai]

Most people who will have studied the Common European Framework of References for Languages would probably be fully qualified teachers and would therefore be teaching at an International School earning 60k+++ baht per month. And if that's what you hope for then who would then work at the many government schools, private schools, language schools etc that pay 25-40k per month?

I concur and that is what basic education in Thailand is currently confronted with considering the TCT teacher license requirements.

[yeno]

I really think Thailand has enough teachers without a degree... How about getting a degree before trying to teach here?

Sorry if I'm being cynical but non-educated teachers cannot help the country getting educated, unless the country is really in utter need for some basic knowledge. I would think Thailand is past that.

What holds you back from getting an appropriate degree? Why do you even consider teaching without it? Would your home country approve of that?

Kindly let us know why you think you should teach without an appropriate degree, I would like to hear that.

True, on one side...on the other, there are enough alcoholic farang teachers there with degree (not to mention those spending their free time in the bars with the bar "Ladies") who are native English, too, that anything could be better then them. I don't want to sound cynical, either, but in the end is how you make the students learn by themselves and how you make them like what they learn, not what kind of degree or education the teacher has. Am I right?

[Scott]

Further off-topic remarks about education and personal habits will result in a formal warning and a suspension of posting ability.

[tombkk]

I really think Thailand has enough teachers without a degree... How about getting a degree before trying to teach here?

Sorry if I'm being cynical but non-educated teachers cannot help the country getting educated, unless the country is really in utter need for some basic knowledge. I would think Thailand is past that.

What holds you back from getting an appropriate degree? Why do you even consider teaching without it? Would your home country approve of that?

Kindly let us know why you think you should teach without an appropriate degree, I would like to hear that.

True, on one side...on the other, there are enough alcoholic farang teachers there with degree (not to mention those spending their free time in the bars with the bar "Ladies") who are native English, too, that anything could be better then them. I don't want to sound cynical, either, but in the end is how you make the students learn by themselves and how you make them like what they learn, not what kind of degree or education the teacher has. Am I right?

Taking the moderator's (Scott) posting into account...

A teaching degree does not guarantee that you can teach. (An engineering degree does not guarantee that you are a good engineer.) That's why schools ask for references before they employ you as a teacher. If you have no degree, why does that guarantee that you can teach?

I am all in favour of the requirement for the degree, and then let's take it from there and see who of the candidates are really qualified for the job. If anyone is good, why wouldn't he have gone for the degree?

Edited September 24, 2010 by tombkk