Anger Over Red Shirts Riot Autopsy Reports

[brahmburgers]

I haven't read all the posts, because I have construction workers showing up, but here goes my 2 satang worth:

Reds converged on Bkk. For various reasons, mostly because they were paid more to go than they earn sitting in their villages looking at dry rice fields.

Reds actively and purposefully squelched subsequent investigations. Not only destroying security cameras, but by covering up evidence and by lying (following the lead of their ever lying leader, Thaksin).

Forensic workers are directed to do a job: mainly investigate wounds and how such things happened. They aren't psychiatrists, and aren't expected to deal with the myriad emotional wounds suffered by survivors.

If I had a son in his 20's or 30's who chose to go to Bkk and cause havoc, including barricading downtown, lying, and wielding weapons (which were hidden most of the time), I would resolve to find a way to accept 'he made his bed, so he can lie in it.' In other words, I would try to dissuade him from being a a-hole, but if he goes off looking for trouble, then the trouble he finds is his own tough luck.

[hammered]

Realpolitik dictates that the non-governmental side needed martyrs. They got them but not in the clear cut way they wanted. There is too much evidence of shooters on their side for that. So0 while government look bad to a degree it isnt as bad as it could have been and while reds look to have some innocent deaths on their side the way they played it reduces poltical impac of such. This will remain a mess with neitheer side totally in the clear. That suits whoever controls the government.

For a clue asa to how the overall poltical pendulum is swinging we need to look at how businesses ar acting. Are businesses known to be close to team Thaksin starting to work with government over outstanding issues (coming on board) or not? If they are the government holds the upper hand if they arent then the reds still retain residual power. Businesses wont make mistakes on assessing this.

[Asa]

Still I say we'd never get the truth told, and the authorities are holding it from us, period.

Also like K. Piangrudee

[hammered]

Still I say we'd never get the truth told, and the authorities are holding it from us, period.

Also like K. Piangrudee

Not only the authorities but also the red shirts are holding the truth from us

[Piengrudee]

Should ask DSI investigators to go watch CSI, instead of after news Thai soap.

[TAWP]

noticed you castigated those who criticised their 'hosts' and the outdated cosmic rays study, then you criticised the 'hosts' for the iodine study....

can you spell inconsistency?

looks like you can turn your own knobs without my assistance

the truth is 90% of the deaths, via evidence of the wounds and which way the victims were standing or running away could place the location of the shooters.

why you want to get insulting is harder to do the 'forensics' not getting any?

Is there evidence of which way the victims were standing or running when they were shot?

Most of those that were shot were taken to hospital by ambulances or the victims friends. There are no crime scenes where the police were able to view the body immediately after it was shot.

Thank you - hopefully he understands it when the point is written for the third time.

An autopsy - sadly - for many of the dead will affirm cause of death - but can *not* give any decisive answer as to *who* did it.

[Hakuchi]

noticed you castigated those who criticised their 'hosts' and the outdated cosmic rays study, then you criticised the 'hosts' for the iodine study....

can you spell inconsistency?

looks like you can turn your own knobs without my assistance

the truth is 90% of the deaths, via evidence of the wounds and which way the victims were standing or running away could place the location of the shooters.

why you want to get insulting is harder to do the 'forensics'  not getting any?

Is there evidence of which way the victims were standing or running when they were shot?

Most of those that were shot were taken to hospital by ambulances or the victims friends.  There are no crime scenes where the police were able to view the body immediately after it was shot.

Are that victims of a crime or results of law enforcement? Wasn't the city full of extra security personal? What did these units when these people got killed?

[whybother]

Is there evidence of which way the victims were standing or running when they were shot?

Most of those that were shot were taken to hospital by ambulances or the victims friends. There are no crime scenes where the police were able to view the body immediately after it was shot.

Are that victims of a crime or results of law enforcement? Wasn't the city full of extra security personal? What did these units when these people got killed?

Where have you been? Were you born the day you joined TVF?

No one was able to put up crime tape to cordon of an area to investigate any deaths! There was too much shooting going on from both sides.

[animatic]

noticed you castigated those who criticised their 'hosts' and the outdated cosmic rays study, then you criticised the 'hosts' for the iodine study....

can you spell inconsistency?

looks like you can turn your own knobs without my assistance

the truth is 90% of the deaths, via evidence of the wounds and which way the victims were standing or running away could place the location of the shooters.

why you want to get insulting is harder to do the 'forensics' not getting any?

Is there evidence of which way the victims were standing or running when they were shot?

Most of those that were shot were taken to hospital by ambulances or the victims friends. There are no crime scenes where the police were able to view the body immediately after it was shot.

Are that victims of a crime or results of law enforcement? Wasn't the city full of extra security personal? What did these units when these people got killed?

Hundreds of crime scenes involved here, most all of which were

inaccessible until their forensic value was utterly degraded.

There is much to know, but that doesn't mean it's possible,

not matter how much wishful thinking and suspicion is involved.

Edited August 28, 2010 by animatic

[hammered]

noticed you castigated those who criticised their 'hosts' and the outdated cosmic rays study, then you criticised the 'hosts' for the iodine study....

can you spell inconsistency?

looks like you can turn your own knobs without my assistance

the truth is 90% of the deaths, via evidence of the wounds and which way the victims were standing or running away could place the location of the shooters.

why you want to get insulting is harder to do the 'forensics' not getting any?

Is there evidence of which way the victims were standing or running when they were shot?

Most of those that were shot were taken to hospital by ambulances or the victims friends. There are no crime scenes where the police were able to view the body immediately after it was shot.

Are that victims of a crime or results of law enforcement? Wasn't the city full of extra security personal? What did these units when these people got killed?

Hundreds of crime scenes involved here, most all of which were

inaccessible until their forensic value was utterly degraded.

There is much to know, but that doesn't mean it's possible,

not matter how much wishful thinking and suspicion is involved.

Totally true on the forensic front and autopsies wont furnish any evidence as to who did the killing. People will believe what they want to believe and what they are propagndized into believing

[Hakuchi]

Is there evidence of which way the victims were standing or running when they were shot?

Most of those that were shot were taken to hospital by ambulances or the victims friends.  There are no crime scenes where the police were able to view the body immediately after it was shot.

Are that victims of a crime or results of law enforcement? Wasn't the city full of extra security personal? What did these units when these people got killed?

Where have you been?  Were you born the day you joined TVF?

No one was able to put up crime tape to cordon of an area to investigate any deaths!  There was too much shooting going on from both sides.

Do you know the difference between a crime victim and a culprit? You called them victims.

[Hakuchi]

Should ask DSI investigators to go watch CSI, instead of after news Thai soap.

Yeah and stock up with plenty crime tape.

[whybother]

Do you know the difference between a crime victim and a culprit? You called them victims.

What should I be calling them? And why?

[Hakuchi]

Do you know the difference between a crime victim and a culprit? You called them victims.

What should I be calling them?  And why?

My first question was if they are victims of a crime or criminals themselves that got gunned down by law enforcement.  Your answer was that you need crime tape to come here to an conclusion.

So now my question is if you know the difference between a victim of a crime and a criminal.

The DSI or the police arrested also a couple of people and pressed charged against them. Do you know how many meters of crime tape were there involved in the investigation? Is the a chance that the terrorists ever meet justice or can they walk of free because there wasn't enough time to apply "crime tape" allover the scene?

[Hakuchi]

Everyone's a wannabe Herashio these days. Crime busting lark all looks so easy. Some people seem to think it really is.

What is a Herashio?

[whybother]

Do you know the difference between a crime victim and a culprit? You called them victims.

What should I be calling them? And why?

My first question was if they are victims of a crime or criminals themselves that got gunned down by law enforcement. Your answer was that you need crime tape to come here to an conclusion.

So now my question is if you know the difference between a victim of a crime and a criminal.

The DSI or the police arrested also a couple of people and pressed charged against them. Do you know how many meters of crime tape were there involved in the investigation? Is the a chance that the terrorists ever meet justice or can they walk of free because there wasn't enough time to apply "crime tape" allover the scene?

I used the word "victims" because Y1R1 used that word. They were shot.

The point is, no one could get close to them to do a CSI type investigation. They were in an effective war zone. No one (at least no one on TVF) knows which way anyone were facing or what they were doing when they were shot.

[rixalex]

Everyone's a wannabe Herashio these days. Crime busting lark all looks so easy. Some people seem to think it really is.

What is a Herashio?

Not what. Who. He's a lead TV detective on CSI. Consider yourself fortunate him and the show has passed you by.

[Hakuchi]

Everyone's a wannabe Herashio these days. Crime busting lark all looks so easy. Some people seem to think it really is.

What is a Herashio?

Not what. Who. He's a lead TV detective on CSI. Consider yourself fortunate him and the show has passed you by.

Okay i had to google that. There is a character who goes by the name Horatio Caine. Is your Herashio=Horatio?

Never came across that name before or how it is spelled?

While i would agree with you on these wannabe investigators and crime tape experts, you may wanna also do something for your own education before you lecture others.

[rixalex]

Okay i had to google that. There is a character who goes by the name Horatio Caine. Is your Herashio=Horatio?

Never came across that name before or how it is spelled?

While i would agree with you on these wannabe investigators and crime tape experts, you may wanna also do something for your own education before you lecture others.

Ok thanks, but I'm educated well enough to take no heed in the words of a person who feels sufficiently able to pass judgement on another person's education based on their ability to spell the name of a fictional TV character correctly. This is the same person who scolds others for lecturing.

[rubl]

Even with all said, speculated, suggested, etc. I don't think I've seen a single case where clearly one of the 91 deaths can be put in the shoes of a single, named person.

Now let's see: 91 dead, mostly shot. Most, even the death, dragged from where they were shot to a 'safer' location. Lots of video clips, none GPS-ed, some only with date/time stamp. Clips of people shooting, clips of people shot, none linked in an obvious way.

I wouldn't like to work at the DSI now. A disturbed crime scene means whatever they say, a good lawyer can cast sufficient doubt in any conclusion.

Having say all this I'll dig up some old episodes of Colombo. He at least succeeds in the impossible

[Hakuchi]

Okay i had to google that. There is a character who goes by the name Horatio Caine. Is your Herashio=Horatio?

Never came across that name before or how it is spelled?

While i would agree with you on these wannabe investigators and crime tape experts, you may wanna also do something for your own education before you lecture others.

Ok thanks, but I'm educated well enough to take no heed in the words of a person who feels sufficiently able to pass judgement on another person's education based on their ability to spell the name of a fictional TV character correctly. This is the same person who scolds others for lecturing.

That fictional TV crime detective isn't the only one who goes by that name. So you never came that name Horatio before (otherwise its difficult to explain why you spelled his name so wrong) well, believe it or not, that says something about your education or the lack of it.

Even when  that DSI Horatio would be the only person in the world ever named Horatio, it spoils your lesson when you spell his name wrong.

[jayboy]

Everyone's a wannabe Herashio these days. Crime busting lark all looks so easy. Some people seem to think it really is.

The fact remains that if the murder of civilians on this scale (with the security forces involved) had occurred in Tokyo,London,Washington or Paris the investigation would be well under way and would have credibility.

Here nobody in power gives a toss.They were only rough peasants after all.

[whybother]

Everyone's a wannabe Herashio these days. Crime busting lark all looks so easy. Some people seem to think it really is.

The fact remains that if the murder of civilians on this scale (with the security forces involved) had occurred in Tokyo,London,Washington or Paris the investigation would be well under way and would have credibility.

Here nobody in power gives a toss.They were only rough peasants after all.

If a group of armed protesters had taken over the middle of Tokyo, London, Washington or Paris for 2 months, they would have the same problems investigating any deaths as the Thais.

[way2muchcoffee]

Everyone's a wannabe Herashio these days. Crime busting lark all looks so easy. Some people seem to think it really is.

The fact remains that if the murder of civilians on this scale (with the security forces involved) had occurred in Tokyo,London,Washington or Paris the investigation would be well under way and would have credibility.

Here nobody in power gives a toss.They were only rough peasants after all.

Perhaps. But you also know that the kind of demonstration that the redshirts engaged in, armed and n defiance of the law, would have been dispersed within a day or two. The dispersal would have been completed by police forces trained to do this. There would have been injuries, and possibly deaths. And had the demonstrators used their weapons on the police forces there most certainly would have been many deaths amongst the protesters. And yes, these deaths would have been thoroughly investigated.

Edited August 28, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[rubl]

Everyone's a wannabe Herashio these days. Crime busting lark all looks so easy. Some people seem to think it really is.

The fact remains that if the murder of civilians on this scale (with the security forces involved) had occurred in Tokyo,London,Washington or Paris the investigation would be well under way and would have credibility.

Here nobody in power gives a toss.They were only rough peasants after all.

All this assuming this could have happened or be allowed to happen in the cities you mention.

The investigation is well under way, but progressing slowly for reasons mentioned before. That why we've got this OP, look at it again.

As for your last remark, maybe people in power are slow to surrender what they see as their birthright. They're wrong of course. Democracy will find it's way, but slowly as usual. As for rough peasant, your words, not mine. At least the UDD leaders and a few more are 'almost' part of the elite.

[Hakuchi]

Everyone's a wannabe Herashio these days. Crime busting lark all looks so easy. Some people seem to think it really is.

The fact remains that if the murder of civilians on this scale (with the security forces involved) had occurred in Tokyo,London,Washington or Paris the investigation would be well under way and would have credibility.

Here nobody in power gives a toss.They were only rough peasants after all.

Still funny to see how crime busting is so easy for a couple of armchair detectives even without crime tape. If they want blame someone else as the main suspect "proper investigation" (plenty crime tape) as seen on DSI is not necessary.

[Ulysses G.]

Everyone's a wannabe Herashio these days. Crime busting lark all looks so easy. Some people seem to think it really is.

The fact remains that if the murder of civilians on this scale (with the security forces involved) had occurred in Tokyo,London,Washington or Paris the investigation would be well under way and would have credibility.

Here nobody in power gives a toss.They were only rough peasants after all.

If a group of armed protesters had taken over the middle of Tokyo, London, Washington or Paris for 2 months, they would have the same problems investigating any deaths as the Thais.

Exactly!

[Ulysses G.]

Everyone's a wannabe Herashio these days. Crime busting lark all looks so easy. Some people seem to think it really is.

The fact remains that if the murder of civilians on this scale (with the security forces involved) had occurred in Tokyo,London,Washington or Paris the investigation would be well under way and would have credibility.

Here nobody in power gives a toss.They were only rough peasants after all.

Perhaps. But you also know that the kind of demonstration that the redshirts engaged in, armed and n defiance of the law, would have been dispersed within a day or two. The dispersal would have been completed by police forces trained to do this. There would have been injuries, and possibly deaths. And had the demonstrators used their weapons on the police forces there most certainly would have been many deaths amongst the protesters. And yes, these deaths would have been thoroughly investigated.

Double Exactly!

[yellow1red1]

noticed you castigated those who criticised their 'hosts' and the outdated cosmic rays study, then you criticised the 'hosts' for the iodine study....

can you spell inconsistency?

looks like you can turn your own knobs without my assistance

the truth is 90% of the deaths, via evidence of the wounds and which way the victims were standing or running away could place the location of the shooters.

why you want to get insulting is harder to do the 'forensics' not getting any?

Is there evidence of which way the victims were standing or running when they were shot?

Most of those that were shot were taken to hospital by ambulances or the victims friends. There are no crime scenes where the police were able to view the body immediately after it was shot.

Thank you - hopefully he understands it when the point is written for the third time.

An autopsy - sadly - for many of the dead will affirm cause of death - but can *not* give any decisive answer as to *who* did it.

whybother, for the 3rd or 4rth time, in my posts, there were eye witnesses , it was a crowded place, those 'friends of the victims' know which way they were standing or running (for the ones shot in the back). at least 2 news stories had the eyewitnesses saying which way the bullets came from, but that has been suppressed, if you are a news photographer in a group and the one beside you facing same way drops from a bullet DUH you don't haved to be CSI,, if you are running with friend and bullet takes him the back, only a video would prove your statement is all.

1. from eyewitnesses and some videos, the location 'should' be able to be seen 2. it never will be solved who the killers were there is even one theory its the CIA for C sake (heard from a Thai military sniper!), the black shirts, the Cambodians, the muslims, even, it will never never ever be resolved, EVER. (who shot JFK? btw) 3. if the facts were even made, the other side would not believe it. 4. the idea that solving this killings will bring peace is preponderopiuusly stupid, anyways, if the red, or yellow, or cia, or cambodian or muslim of Black killer snipers were brought to open and everyone believed it, the hand basket would not coming back from Hades.

Thailand's is one velly, velly, messed up past and future.

this topic; this issue is just one little example of news for next decades

what does that simpleton guy always say ?

next

Edit ; TAWP, in my 1rst post i said it will never be known *who* did it EVER!!!

where the shots came from should not be so hard ..only an idiot would talk about autopsies showing bullet direction, when it is eye witnesses and videos that determine this.

you never answewred my question.

Edited August 28, 2010 by yellow1red1

[rubl]

whybother, for the 3rd or 4rth time, in my posts, there were eye witnesses , it was a crowded place, those 'friends of the victims' know which way they were standing or running (for the ones shot in the back). at least 2 news stories had the eyewitnesses saying which way the bullets came from, but that has been suppressed, if you are a news photographer in a group and the one beside you facing same way drops from a bullet DUH you don't haved to be CSI,, if you are running with friend and bullet takes him the back, only a video would prove your statement is all.

1. from eyewitnesses and some videos, the location 'should' be able to be seen 2. it never will be solved who the killers were there is even one theory its the CIA for C sake (heard from a Thai military sniper!), the black shirts, the Cambodians, the muslims, even, it will never never ever be resolved, EVER. (who shot JFK? btw) 3. if the facts were even made, the other side would not believe it. 4. the idea that solving this killings will bring peace is preponderopiuusly stupid, anyways, if the red, or yellow, or cia, or cambodian or muslim of Black killer snipers were brought to open and everyone believed it, the hand basket would not coming back from Hades.

Thailand's is one velly, velly, messed up past and future.

this topic; this issue is just one little example of news for next decades

what does that simpleton guy always say ?

next

TAWP, in my 1rst post i said it will never be known *who* did it EVER!!!

where the shots came from should not be so hard ... you never answewred my question.

Normally when police questions more than one eyewitness to the same crime they have a lot of problems trying to get a clear picture. People see what they think to have seen. Especially under emotional circumstances the truth if no longer absolute. The more an eyewitness is probed the more he start to believe what he's saying describing. When an eyewitness environment starts insinuating, probing "you were there, weren't you? did they really shoot like crazy? weren't you afraid?". That when stories really start. And no I'm not condemning reds, soldiers, or anyone, just trying to explain that even assuming people co-operate, this investigation isn't easy.