The Park Cidlom Condominium

[Khun Larry]

i am not biased here, i am just another developer who knows both sides.  project B is no slouch, but if i had to choose, i'd pick project A.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude

What is your recomendation, buy now or wait? I see exchange favoeing the dollar and prices comming down. Both support sitting tight.

Comment?

I would think 250K high enough in BKK. Khun la

$250k x 45 - 50 baht / $$ --------> 11 - 12 MM Baht

What you recommend? Any bargains brewing chai mai

[Nordlys]

As most of you have seen, if you travel Soi 24, there will be another 8-10 condo and apartment building completed there in the next 6 years.  The area is almost completely Japanese in nature.  Knowing how much the Japanese overspend, the condos are priced similarly, mostly due to proximity to the Japanese embassy.  Hurry, buy NOW NOW NOW !!  What the real estate folks probably won't tell you is that the new Japanese embassy (located near Lumpini park) will open in a few years.  When that happens, and the Japanese relocate to be closer to  "home", what's going to happen to the prices along Soi 24.  Hmmm...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Japanese embassy is not in the vicinity of Suk soi 24. I don't think relocation of Japanese embassy will affect the real estate price in Sukhumvit. Japanese live in every sois in Sukhumvit. Soi 39 and Thonglor probably have bigger population of Japanese residents than in soi 24. And Thonglor is nowhere near the embassy.

[charles]

What the real estate folks probably won't tell you is that the new Japanese embassy (located near Lumpini park) will open in a few years.  When that happens, and the Japanese relocate to be closer to  "home", what's going to happen to the prices along Soi 24.  Hmmm...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find it quite bizarre that the Japanese would relocate from their Promphong - Thonglor base full of Japanese clubs, restaurants, shops and other amenities just to be close to their embassy! Is it some kind of social club? In any case I thought the Japanese embassy was in the Asoke/Petchaburi area.

As for Wittayu Complex, I'm often amazed at the prices asked for units advertized in Bangkok Post - like about 50-60k per sq.m. Presumably no units are actually ever sold at those prices. I'm not sure but I thought it was a condo that was stalled in the '97 crisis and then eventually got finished but has always been likely to stuggle. Agree with ExpatinAsia that it is a miserable location, next to slums, experessway and lots of traffic, and a fair hike to the nearest Skytrain station. Just because a place has a "central" location it might not be a good one.

Just one thing about the British Embassy, weren't they planning to sell some or all of its grounds? Don't know if it's still happening but if so, people can expect a view of office buildings (preceded of course by a construction site) there in the future.

[The_Moog]

a polluted canel

...and its just as filthy 200 yards away when it flows past Chidlom.

In fact the klong that runs perpendicular in Soi Somkid, and right in front of Park Chidlom is just an open sewer. It literally stinks.

Yes, there's asphalt everywhere - this is Central Bangkok. You'll never escape it. Poor people also - living in their rude hovels with scant disregard for the aesthetic sensibilities of their wealthy neighbours - and sniffing solvents under the bridge at Chidlom and Petburi.

I recall in Soi Chidlom there was a vast pile of rotting rubber clad cable, hundreds of discarded fluorescent tubes - fly-tipped in a big heap on the sidewalk. They remained there for a year.

...and you're buying half-million dollar condos off-plan at the end of the Business Cycle- hypnotized by the gold taps in the show suite (which probably won't be in your apt anyway! )

Its like the Masque of the Red Death !

Just playing Devils Advocate, don't get upset......

[Beer-diow, khao-neow, mai-an!]

You all make compelling points.

Of course the danger in comparative pricing (i.e., cheap vs city X) is that city X may be seeing prices ridiculously out of line with fundamentals - and most are!

Anyway we bought in Thonglo a few years back - really a nice location, walking distance to all the new "maxi" mini-malls but a stretch to the BTS. When Saenseab is cleaned up in 3 years should widen travel options though.

It was grade A, but recent projects are so upscale we're probably A- or B+ now, but I was never one for gold taps anyway!!

[thedude]

a polluted canel

In fact the klong that runs perpendicular in Soi Somkid, and right in front of Park Chidlom is just an open sewer. It literally stinks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The_Moog, i live on soi somkid and walk pass the klong everyday, it does not stink, although i agree it doesn't look too good either, but it has improved heaps since the last 5 years or so. proposals to cover up the klong and make somkid a 2-way road have been well supported by residents except old Mrs Nai Lert who lives across the klong on her massive property, so i guess the common people will have to wait till she stops objecting. i also heard that the British Emabssy may not like to have the klong covered up since it takes away a natural security barrier on its west boundary, but who cares what those farangs think anyway. it will happen if Mrs Nai Lert stops objecting.

[The_Moog]

it does not stink

You should have smelt me after I swam in it.

[thedude]

i am not biased here, i am just another developer who knows both sides.  project B is no slouch, but if i had to choose, i'd pick project A.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude

What is your recomendation, buy now or wait? I see exchange favoeing the dollar and prices comming down. Both support sitting tight.

Comment?

I would think 250K high enough in BKK. Khun la

$250k x 45 - 50 baht / $$ --------> 11 - 12 MM Baht

What you recommend? Any bargains brewing chai mai

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

K Larry, i am not the right one to ask regarding the USD, i have famously made a wrong call on another thread. If you believe the USD will strengthen to 50 as suggested by Harmonica (tv's very own resident currency guru), then i suppose you should hang on as the dollar gain will outweigh any short term cap reductions.

If you are a serious long term investor, then i would suggest looking carefully at prime Grade A properties in the ploenchit area since, as i mentioned before, prices in this area are the most resilient due to the lack of freehold land and the priming up of surrounding land uses. sophisticated high net worth clients understand this, that is why developers of prime properties are typically less inclined to give discounts unless they are trying to move the most unpopular units with bad views or bad layout. so the issue is if you are positive about the long term prospects of bangkok, then you have to weigh out your purchase timing against the continued availability of good prime units.

[trajan]

If you are a serious long term investor, then i would suggest looking carefully at prime Grade A properties in the ploenchit area since, as i mentioned before, prices in this area are the most resilient due to the lack of freehold land and the priming up of surrounding land uses.  sophisticated high net worth clients understand this, that is why developers of prime properties are typically less inclined to give discounts unless they are trying to move the most unpopular units with bad views or bad layout.  so the issue is if you are positive about the long term prospects of bangkok, then you have to weigh out your purchase timing against the continued availability of good prime units.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I agree about the <Ploenchit/Langsuan/Chidlom/Wireless/Ruam Rudi> area...I really believe this area will really rise in quality and activity as time goes by regardless of currency fluctuations, oil prices, etc.

The opening of the new expanded and renovated Central World Plaza and CWP Hotel, the giant new upscale Siam Paragon and connected Kempinski Hotel, the new Park Chidlom and Athenee Residence, the newly renovated Siam Center, the new hotel between the Grand Hyatt and Four Seasons, the existing Erawan and Gaysorn malls, the newly renovated Maneeya center, and the existing hotels (Intercon, Holiday Inn), the existing Central Chidlom and possible new projects next to Wave Place and the British Embassy and the interconnected elevated catwalks to almost all major projects will really energize this area It will probably transform into a better and more concentrated version of Orchard St in Singapore or Nathan in HK.....available sites and new condo units in this area will become extremely rare I think......OMG Im starting to sound like a RE broker but Im not....

[thedude]

If you are a serious long term investor, then i would suggest looking carefully at prime Grade A properties in the ploenchit area since, as i mentioned before, prices in this area are the most resilient due to the lack of freehold land and the priming up of surrounding land uses.  sophisticated high net worth clients understand this, that is why developers of prime properties are typically less inclined to give discounts unless they are trying to move the most unpopular units with bad views or bad layout.  so the issue is if you are positive about the long term prospects of bangkok, then you have to weigh out your purchase timing against the continued availability of good prime units.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I agree about the <Ploenchit/Langsuan/Chidlom/Wireless/Ruam Rudi> area...I really believe this area will really rise in quality and activity as time goes by regardless of currency fluctuations, oil prices, etc.

The opening of the new expanded and renovated Central World Plaza and CWP Hotel, the giant new upscale Siam Paragon and connected Kempinski Hotel, the new Park Chidlom and Athenee Residence, the newly renovated Siam Center, the new hotel between the Grand Hyatt and Four Seasons, the existing Erawan and Gaysorn malls, the newly renovated Maneeya center, and the existing hotels (Intercon, Holiday Inn), the existing Central Chidlom and possible new projects next to Wave Place and the British Embassy and the interconnected elevated catwalks to almost all major projects will really energize this area It will probably transform into a better and more concentrated version of Orchard St in Singapore or Nathan in HK.....available sites and new condo units in this area will become extremely rare I think......OMG Im starting to sound like a RE broker but Im not....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

trajan, i couldn't have explained it better myself. the new hotel btwen Grand Hyatt and Four Seasons is expected to be the Ritz Carlton, although i'm not sure of the owners have tied up the deal. the Erawan mall is undergoing a new makeover. Central Chidlom is being upgraded right now to move it further upmarket like Harrods or Harvey Nicols to avoid cannibalising the revamped Central World Plaza which belongs to the same retail group. i believe the entire stretch between central and mbk will be linked by an uninterrupted skywalk in the near future, making it far more accessible for tourists and residents. exciting times ahead.

[Nordlys]

[The_Moog, i live on soi somkid and walk pass the klong everyday, it does not stink, although i agree it doesn't look too good either, but it has improved heaps since the last 5 years or so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you live at Somkid Place by any chance?

Ten years ago I've been told it's by far the most exclusive and prestigious condominium in Bangkok. And for whatever the price you folks are paying for Plaza Athenee or Park Ploenchit, I'd rather go for 2nd hand unit at the Somkid Place. Any idea what the psm price of Somkid Place unit valued at these days? I would expect it to be more than Plaza Athenee or Park Ploenchit even all these years after completion. My company lawyer lives there btw. His wife is one of the daughter (or nice or whatever) of the Central Dept. Store owner.

BTW I wish there is a condo in soi Tonson. You get all the benefits pkrv has mentioned + feeling of living in a queit, residential neighborhood (as opposed to commercial or business) .

Edited July 15, 2005 by Nordlys

[corkscrew]

114k

Thats crazy.

I live on Wireless and I paid THB30,000 psm two years ago.

Park Chidlom is nice, but thats too expensive as well. It'll be good to live in but I can't see that you'll ever make a lot of money on it, and you get the same view of Nai Lert Park as I do (assuming you've paid the higher price there to get a green view)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. But at the same time I can't imagine anyone developing any project for less than that price at that location. BTW where is Nai Lert Park?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is a 4+ bedroom on a high floor with views in 3 directions. Road access direct to both Wireless and Ruam Rudee. And 3 dedicated parking places.

[The_Moog]

Do you live at Somkid Place by any chance?

Somkid Garden possibly? Looked a bit dated inside when I went, but still really nice, i'd like one. Very expensive.

There are tons of apartments around Ruamrudee, Langsuan.

It'll always be better here than Sukhumvit.

[pkrv]

The_Moog, you paint a very candid picture of Bangkok and to be honest if westerners invest here without wide-open eyes to the many 'colourful' aspects of Bangkok they would be fools indeed!

G&T on the balcony? not if you go swimming in that! What inspired you? I to have seen the canal there is a similar one near 'The Lakes'. No it doesn't smell but is an interesting colour....

I think I am more vulnerable to Foreign Exchange (FX) exposure than movement in property prices. 70% payable in a year is a tad difficult to predict - Believe you me I have in the past been heavily involved in FX.

Thailand does need outside investment - one less obvious reason for investing now is a good exchange rate (75 Baht to GBP) and as with 'thedude', currency prediction is for mugs, you will never find out what is happening behind closed doors, I’ve seen enough to know.....

Hemaraj is a Thai company something I feel comfortable with but for subtlety different reasons, if I can benefit and Thailand can benefit - then all good stuff. And no the taps aren’t gold (thank god!).

[The_Moog]

The_Moog, you paint a very candid picture of Bangkok and to be honest if westerners invest here without wide-open eyes to the many 'colourful' aspects of Bangkok they would be fools indeed!

I think you'll have a super flat. There's nobody labouring on site today from what I can see (even before the rain), but they have been working a lot harder lately. For ages - till they got the $ - there wasn't much going on.

Don't worry about the mooted British Embassy sale, the plot in question is not adjacent to you.

What we're getting in this area are nice little enclaves, with horrible unspeakableness in between. Anything pavement level around Chidlom is a bit nasty - anything requiring civic responsibility. The overhead walkway (private money) is a good start though.

[Buff-horns]

I am making my first overseas property purchase and after reviewing all the options have gone for one of the two bedroom apartments (one of the C2's) in the Park Chidlom Condominium Bangkok.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wouldnt fancy living in chidlom its always snarled up with traffic and the air is really polluted bad.

[Nepal4me]

Has anybody looked at the condo complexs just off Sarasin, right across the road from Lumpini Park between Radjadamri and Lang Suan? There are 2 complexs in the little U shaped soi off Sarasin.

Bann Thanon Sarasin, prices in the 96 to 107K psm range. Small boutique kind of complex. Only 22 units total. Location is great for Lumpinin Park but it's close to a ten minute walk to the skytrain or the subway. Everything is quite high end in construction.

There is a 2nd condo going up now deeper into the soi, I forget the name of it but it'll have 50 units or so, px's now from 86 to 96K psm range and due to go up when after construction starts. It's sold by Richard Ellis.

These are both on free hold land. Not so close to public transport but great for reasonalbe access to either Sukumvit or Silom and in a quiet area if you don't want to be in the busy hubbub of the Suk area. Also in an area where there will not be much further development due to scarcity of land.

[Nordlys]

Has anybody looked at the condo complexs just off Sarasin, right across the road from Lumpini Park between Radjadamri and Lang Suan?  There are 2 complexs in the little U shaped soi off Sarasin. 

Bann Thanon Sarasin, prices in the 96 to 107K psm range.  Small boutique kind of complex.  Only 22 units total.  Location is great for Lumpinin Park but it's close to a ten minute walk to the skytrain or the subway.  Everything is quite high end in construction. 

There is a 2nd condo going up now deeper into the soi, I forget the name of it but it'll have 50 units or so, px's now from 86 to 96K psm range and due to go up when after construction starts.  It's sold by Richard Ellis.

These are both on free hold land.  Not so close to public transport but great for reasonalbe access to either Sukumvit or Silom and in a quiet area if you don't want to be in the busy hubbub of the Suk area.  Also in an area where there will not be much further development due to scarcity of land.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, the latter sold by CBRE is called Colony Lumpini and I think the showroom is in Sukhumvit soi 11, if it's still there. I forgot the name of the other project but the developer is Indian and the sales agent is Andrew Park, and it's not selling so well due to the poor PR, they're going to turn some of the 22 units into rental units, I heard. Colony Lumpini is priced around B100K/sm and more upscale than the other one (roof-top garden, roof-top swimming pool with free wi-fi, etc), both at great locations for being so close to Lumpini park and soi Langsuan.

There's also another who close to the park on Rajdamari that looks like it was just completed, built on where the Esso gas station used to be. Looks very nice but not sure if it's a freehold property or leasehold.

[trajan]

There's also another who close to the park on Rajdamari that looks like it was just completed, built on where the Esso gas station used to be.  Looks very nice but not sure if it's a freehold property or leasehold.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you are referring to freehold "Baan Rajadamri" located right on Rajadamri Road facing the Royal Sports Club.... all the units there are minimum B30 Mil but were sold out long ago. There are a few on the secondary market already even though the building has not officially opened yet...

[trajan]

Bann Thanon Sarasin, prices in the 96 to 107K psm range.  Small boutique kind of complex.  Only 22 units total.  Location is great for Lumpinin Park but it's close to a ten minute walk to the skytrain or the subway.  Everything is quite high end in construction. 

Yes, "Baan Thanon Sarasin" (used to be called "Baan Sarasin" before the Sarasin family complained, according to a friend at a brokers office) looks very nice....its marketed by the "Andrew Park" firm......

however for low rises, I really like the "Saladaeng Colonnade" condo/apt building (colonial style) on Soi Saladaeng near Silom Road....it has the great "Zanotti" restaurant on the ground floor...how bout that one??

[Nordlys]

[however for low rises, I really like the "Saladaeng Colonnade" condo/apt building (colonial style) on Soi Saladaeng near Silom Road....it has the great "Zanotti" restaurant on the ground floor...how bout that one??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, Saladaeng Colonnade is very nice. You can't find a location better than that - within walking distance from both the BTS and subway stations, Central Dept. Store, Lumipini Park, easy access from Rama 4, Silom and Sathorn, close to entertainment venues, across the street from Anna's Cafe and not to mention the best Italian restaurant in town in the same building.... (I didn't like the parking lot of Saladaeng Colonnade though). That project was also sold by Andrew Park almost ten years ago and the second hand units are traded at almost B12K/sm today, I heard. I think they are building another project near Saladaeng Colonnade in Soi Saladaeng 1 which is near completion.

Edited July 15, 2005 by Nordlys

[Nordlys]

And do you know another new project on south Sathorn near Singaporean Embassy opposite Evergreen Laurel Hotel called "The Met"? It's a major project by major a Singaporean developer "HPL", sold by CBRE and they just launched the sales a few weeks ago. With more than 300 units, it's going to be the tallest condominium in Thailand (60 + stories), I was told. I went to see the show room last week and I must say their layout and the kitchen is very good, and the showroom not overly decorated. Sales rep told me the "average" price at B11K/sm and seems they have already achieved sales of more than half the units (for a recently-launched project). Impressive.

[donx]

Nordlys,

You quoted prices of B12k/sm and B11K/sm in your last two posts. That can't be correct. Otherwise a 300 sm unit would only cost 3,600,000 Baht and 3,300,000 respectively.

Edited July 15, 2005 by donx

[Nordlys]

Nordlys,

You quoted prices of B12k/sm and B11K/sm in your last two posts. That can't be correct. Otherwise a 300 sm unit would only cost 3,600,000 Baht and 3,300,000 respectively.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, thanks for correction. B120K and 110K psm.

[susah_sih]

My view on Low-rise Luxury condo.

One might as well buy a house and doesnt have to pay for maintenance

fees and also gets the land and the same

kind tuk2x/motorcyle noise, exhausts as in a low-rise condo.

In Hong Kong, people there even congratulate you if you move

to higher floor but feel pitty if you move down to lower floor.

As people progress economically, people move from smaller

condo to larger condo, from driving c-class mercedes to

s-class mercedes, and from liviing in lower floor condo to higher floor unit.

After all why is that all penthouses are located at top floor instead

of on the ground floor? It all contradicts the luxury yet low rise condo.

Unfortunately, the Park Residence is not high enough to my satisfaction.

You need to buy at least 16th floor and higher to have an unblocked

view. Buildings surrounding the Park, including the gigantic blocks near

Central Dept. Store reduces the value of lower units.

And on the Athenee

Some buyers will be very disappointed with the upcoming

office building that Mr. Charoen is building next to the apartment.

Guess that office workers in that building will be watching activities

of the condo tenants during their leisurely time. Some will even buy

power binoculars from Nikon that have the strength to see through people's

clothings. One buyer already cancelled buying a unit after putting down

payment, realizing that his unit will have a view facing the office building.

Edited July 16, 2005 by susah_sih

[The_Moog]

Plaza Athenee has the lowest occupancy rates among 5 star hotels in Bangkok.

[trajan]

My view on Low-rise Luxury condo.

One might as well buy a house and doesnt have to pay for maintenance

fees and also gets the land and the same

kind tuk2x/motorcyle noise, exhausts as in a low-rise condo.

In Hong Kong, people there even congratulate you if you move

to higher floor but feel pitty if you move down to lower floor.

As people progress economically, people move from smaller

condo to larger condo, from driving c-class mercedes to

s-class mercedes, and from liviing in lower floor condo to higher floor unit.

After all why is that all penthouses are located at top floor instead

of on the ground floor? It all contradicts the luxury yet low rise condo.

Unfortunately, the Park Residence is not high enough to my satisfaction.

You need to buy at least 16th floor and higher to have an unblocked

view. Buildings surrounding the Park, including the gigantic blocks near

Central Dept. Store reduces the value of lower units.

And on the Athenee

Some buyers will be very disappointed with the upcoming

office building that Mr. Charoen is building next to the apartment.

Guess that office workers in that building will be watching activities

of the condo tenants during their leisurely time. Some will even buy

power binoculars from Nikon that have the strength to see through people's

clothings. One buyer already cancelled buying a unit after putting down

payment, realizing that his unit will have a view facing the office building.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

believe it or not, not all people like living in hi-rises, some prefer lo-rises...also from personal experience, buying a stand-alone house does not mean lower maintenance fees (actually they are higher)....

[expatinasia]

"One might as well buy a house and doesnt have to pay for maintenance "

It's obvious that Susan has never owned a home...

[trajan]

And do you know another new project on south Sathorn near Singaporean Embassy opposite Evergreen Laurel Hotel called "The Met"?  It's a major project by major a Singaporean developer "HPL", sold by CBRE and they just launched the sales a few weeks ago.  With more than 300 units, it's going to be the tallest condominium in Thailand (60 + stories), I was told.  I went to see the show room last week and I must say their layout and the kitchen is very good, and the showroom not overly decorated.  Sales rep told me the "average" price at B11K/sm and seems they have already achieved sales of more than half the units (for a recently-launched project).  Impressive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I mentioned "The Met" in one of my previous posts on this thread

That new building on South Sathorn Road (on the old 7-rai US Information Services land) is going to be HUGE and tall enough to even meet Susah's Hong Kong definition of "prestige" I believe it will be 66 stories tall with 370 units. It will be the tallest residential project in Bangkok when completed (with possibily the State Tower/with Sirocco restaurant as the only competition in terms of height for condos). If you want uninterrupted commanding views of KrungThep Metropolis, the higher condo units in this one are probably the best bet!

However, the name "The Met" might be slightly confused with "The Metropolitan" hotel and "The Met" bar, also on South Sathorn Road.

[Beer-diow, khao-neow, mai-an!]

Do any of those with any inside knowledge/industry experience have a view on Noble Development - those behind the Playground "mall" and other housing projects?