Tourists Targeted For Dropping Litter

[gotlost]

Thai driving licence gets you in the national parks at the cheaper Thai price

Not all of them.

I have had mine rejected in a few.

[IMA_FARANG]

Ever been to Singapore? The signs say it exactly like it is. Dropping any litter is a minimum 50 Singapore dollar fine. (Well maybe more now, I haven't been there in quite a few years). Also failing to flush the toilet in the public lavatorys will cost you a fine. And they have attendents to watch the toilets, who will warn you if you try to leave without flushing.

Yes, I know the double-standard in Thailand makes some people mad. But the Thais look at it like this...you can afford it, and do you pay Thai taxes anyhow? (No, mostly tourists don't). So...why shouldn't you pay? (And I don't buy the claim that tourists who buy beer, broads and rent motorcycles help the Thai economy.)

The last time I was in Thailand my Thai girlfriend mistakenly told her son that it was o.k. to drive down a bus lane a block or two to a nearby department store. A Thai traffic cop stopped her son driving in the bus lane. If I was driving, a Farang, it would have been a minimum 500 baht or 1000 baht fine. Since her son was driving the cop hit him up for 150 Baht...no ticket. That's just the reality of Thailand...live with it.

The real answer to the problem is....just don't litter.

Edited August 29, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[highlander76]

old news:coffee1:

[IanForbes]

years ago as a teenager in Canada I learned a lesson the hard way and vowed it was God's way (I'm not religious) of reminding me not to litter. I was driving my car up a country road and had my girlfriend snuggled up beside me. I had one hand on the steering wheel and the other hand occupied elsewhere. About that point I deciede to eat the chocolate bar I had brought along for a snack. I took off the wrapper but mistakenly tossed the bar out the window instead of the wrapper. All I could do was laugh and vowed I would never toss litter again. I chalked it up to being distracted by my lovely girlfriend who was othewise occupied. I still laugh over that memory 50 years later.

[phetaroi]

The nation a english language newspaper wonder why only stories about farang crime? I donot think most of the readers care about Thai crime.

I'll say it again -- most of the news stories in "The Nation" are about Thais and Thailand. Most of the crime stories that name names are about farangs.

[Lammbock]

Most of us do not pay Tax in Thailand.

So if we go once a year to a National Park and pay 200 Baht instead of 40 so who gives a s***?????

As long as my Beer is cold and not have to wait to long in bad traffic i am happy.

Best Regards,

Lammbock

[Soutpeel]

Most of us do not pay Tax in Thailand.

So if we go once a year to a National Park and pay 200 Baht instead of 40 so who gives a s***?????

As long as my Beer is cold and not have to wait to long in bad traffic i am happy.

Best Regards,

Lammbock

One of the more sensible answers on this topic.....I salute you sir on knowing where the priorities lie...:jap:

[ballpoint]

years ago as a teenager in Canada I learned a lesson the hard way and vowed it was God's way (I'm not religious) of reminding me not to litter. I was driving my car up a country road and had my girlfriend snuggled up beside me. I had one hand on the steering wheel and the other hand occupied elsewhere. About that point I deciede to eat the chocolate bar I had brought along for a snack. I took off the wrapper but mistakenly tossed the bar out the window instead of the wrapper. All I could do was laugh and vowed I would never toss litter again. I chalked it up to being distracted by my lovely girlfriend who was othewise occupied. I still laugh over that memory 50 years later.

I had a similar experience, except I accidently threw my girlfriend out the window, ate the wrapper and snogged the chocolate bar.

Edited August 30, 2010 by ballpoint

[Forethat]

Sorry to read that.

But then you also know how it is.

Something strange about us smokers.

We know it is dangerous.

And still we do it.

It's called "being stupid"

[Travel2003]

Sorry to read that.

But then you also know how it is.

Something strange about us smokers.

We know it is dangerous.

And still we do it.

It's called "being stupid"

Yes I think you can call it that.

I believe I belong to the average level intelligence wise, and yet i do stupid things.

Like dropping litter (only once).

[Tod Daniels]

This is most definitely OLD frickin' NEWS, and last time I checked (which I do periodically) the เทศกิจ (pronounced as; thaeht^F sa^L git^L) have been enforcing this litter ordinance for YEARS and YEARS here, especially in areas with a large foreign and/or tourist contingent.

Christ, how about people take some personal responsibility and just don't frickin' litter here, or in ANY country for that matter.

To say the thais are held to a different standard is more than laughable. I doubt it's called "thai-land" for no reason. Seeing as it's their country; the police or municipal ordinance people can target whoever they want to .

Actually, a few months ago they had an article in a thai language newspaper which said the Bangkok municipal code enforcers for littering were going to start targeting more thais, with a starting fine of 200 baht. As it is, they already routinely stop moto-cys traveling on the sidewalk and ticket them for their errant behavior.

Now, is this particular targeting of foreigners a cash cow? That answer is MOST definitely; YES!!

The guys which man the "station" in front of "Little-Korea" aka; Sukhumvit Plaza, also happen to drink on my soi after work. I've shared drinks with them and sat with them many, many times at their little booth out there on the Sukhumvit (as a neutral observer ).

The parade of befuddled (yet totally guilty) foreigners they haul up there is staggering in sheer numbers. On a good day, it could be a HUNDRED PEOPLE. They certainly make some real money. In all that time, I’ve never seen them NOT write out a receipt at that 'station'. Even if the fine is 'negotiated' down, they still issue one. When I first moved to this soi, I even got caught out by them once. I just haggled 'em down to 200baht, and still got a receipt .

FWIW; the key cutter and the old lady who does sewing and sits behind the bus stop near the main Bangkok Bank Branch between Sukhumvit Soi 8 and 10 both have walkie-talkies. They routinely tell the enforcers which foreigners have littered. In fact, ANYONE with an orange walkie-talkie is suspect as a possible ‘informant’ from about Nana BTS Station to Asok BTS station on the even soi side of Sukhumvit.

It looked to be such a lucrative endeavor I even asked them if I could get in on it, as I've nothing to do . They said it was "only for thai to help thai". Evidently turning in foreigners who litter is one of the 'prohibited trades' in thailand reserved for thai nationals only.

[PingManDan]

LOL Welcome to Thailand the land of opportunity when Farangs are the intended target.

[Travel2003]

I have absolutely no problem with the local Police targeting "guilty" foreigners.

The problem is when the Police try to frame someone innocent.

But guilty ones, fair target, since they normally can cough up more than the average Thai.

If the "visitors" to this country always followed the rules, this money making machine would not been that active.

It still would have been there, but not in the same degree.

[Berkshire]

Hey OP, didn't your daddy ever impart that pearl of wisdom on you, to wit "Don't sweat the small stuff." Whether they target foreigners or Thais, isn't it good that they're targeting somebody, and thereby reducing littering even by a little bit? So if they catch you littering and ignore the guy standing next to you littering, does it make you less guilty? I say more power to them for being a little proactive. Oh, by the way, there's a simple solution to this which will solve all your problems, one which others have already mentioned. DON'T LITTER!

[chuang]

You break the law you pay the fine...what's wrong with that whether you are a thai or a foreigner....

otherwise " DO NOT LITTER " if you want to then do it in your home country....

[Utterlyuseful]

no sympathy for smokers whatsoever....I think they should all be made to buy a smoking permit at 10,000 baht/year for locals or tourists 10,000 baht per entry into Thailand......anyone without a permit gets fined 100,000 baht ......use the fees to help build schools and other infrastructure

[Peterbigeyes]

Paying taxes how?

Via stuff you buy/use, or from income?

I guess if the latter, it would be easy to get a licence, which one of the members here talked about, and then get it reduced.

Working here and paying income tax, springs to mind

Makes sence, working here and paying income tax exempts one from the laws that relate to littering thats what happens all around the world.

Oh I wish.. another wrong in my list of things to be corrected

[gotlost]

I see the Bangkok Post Quick Poll is going at 89.5% say junk the cigarette police.

[petedk]

You break the law you pay the fine...what's wrong with that whether you are a thai or a foreigner....

otherwise " DO NOT LITTER " if you want to then do it in your home country....

I agree with you but the problem is that these guys target foreigners. They will follow a foreigner for a hundred meters or more if he is smoking, just waiting for him to drop the but. Do they follow Thai people smoking on the street?

A little off topic but still about breaking the law is that I have noticed on the MRT more and more people are eating and drinking. Last week a group of young Thais pulled out a big box of KFC and sat on the platform in full view of MRT staff and started eating. No one said anything to them. They got on the train and the whole compartment stank of KFC. Only a few days earlier I saw a tourist take a sip of water while waiting on the platform. The staff immediately rushed forward with sign language that drinking wasn't allowed.

[Rumpole]

Why worry about double standards and things you can't change? Just don't litter, and follow all the rules (strange as some may seem) and the police won't bother you.

Sorry, but it is not quite as simple and clear cut as that. There have been a number of cases where non-smokers have been targeted by these BMA officials (who are NOT police), with the suggestion that they (the officials) keep a supply of cigarette tabs in their pocket ready to pounce on some unsuspecting foreigner. In addition, if you read the Spectrum report quoted in the OP, you will notice that the anti-littering warning notices and litter bins were REMOVED. Now why would anyone do that unless to ensure a steady supply of victims for extortion?

Mr Boonchai Leesiriwit agreed to answer some questions. He is attached to the BMA's Inspection and Operation Division for Area 1.

Q: Where are the fines paid?

A: It must be paid at the district booth where the offender was caught. The officer will issue a receipt.

Q: What will you do if someone refuses to pay?

A: Sometimes there are cases that people don't want to pay, but you must ask our officers at each district how they handle the situation like that.

Q: Can you arrest people who refuse to pay?

A: No, we can only give them a warning. We have no authority to arrest anyone. Only police can do that.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Rumpole

[mahtin]

litter bins were REMOVED. Now why would anyone do that unless to ensure a steady supply of victims for extortion?

Terrorists like bins for bomb placement. It's been done. OK?

[WarpSpeed]

Yet another good reason not to smoke! And as far as double pricing is concerned, get yourself a Thai drivers license, it can work wonders at reducing such costs.

True, but even still I don't have any real problems with double pricing where National parks are concerned only private businesses..It's their parks and require upkeep and preservation so a few hundred baht is a minor inconvenience and we aren't wealthy people either.

[Rumpole]

litter bins were REMOVED. Now why would anyone do that unless to ensure a steady supply of victims for extortion?

Terrorists like bins for bomb placement. It's been done. OK?

Fair enough. And the anti-littering notices?

[mahtin]

Have to admit that they are as redundant as the enforcers:D

[prometheus]

I have a better idea, since most people would view paying a fine for the alleged liter on the street as "corruption" (among other things which are branded under such circumstance) I propose an alternative: requiring an hour of public service such as cleaning up the street instead of the fine.

[Travel2003]

I have a better idea, since most people would view paying a fine for the alleged liter on the street as "corruption" (among other things which are branded under such circumstance) I propose an alternative: requiring an hour of public service such as cleaning up the street instead of the fine.

Seems fair enough.

Only problem might be the difficulty arranging for and controlling foreigners doing this work.

The City has to pay someone to be with the work force.

Should they force someone on their way to the air port to do this, if they got caught?

Some people might say yes, but will not this extra punishment for missing the flight be a little excessive punishment?

[robblok]

I have a better idea, since most people would view paying a fine for the alleged liter on the street as "corruption" (among other things which are branded under such circumstance) I propose an alternative: requiring an hour of public service such as cleaning up the street instead of the fine.

I don't see it as corruption at all, they are correct it is the law. However they are really selective about how they enforce it and just try to trap tourists and get their money. It is in-moral this way and i don't like it its one of those racist / scam things Thais seem to do with tourists. If you have a rule enforce it to everyone also Thais, now its just a cash cow.

[way2muchcoffee]

no sympathy for smokers whatsoever....I think they should all be made to buy a smoking permit at 10,000 baht/year for locals or tourists 10,000 baht per entry into Thailand......anyone without a permit gets fined 100,000 baht ......use the fees to help build schools and other infrastructure

Yep. Then we will need to initiate an alcohol permit, a sugary food or beverage permit, a fatty foods permit, a foul smelling food permit, a 'gassy' food permit, and what the heck we should charge 100,000 per instance for anyone using any form of motorized transport.

Edited August 31, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[chiang mai]

no sympathy for smokers whatsoever....I think they should all be made to buy a smoking permit at 10,000 baht/year for locals or tourists 10,000 baht per entry into Thailand......anyone without a permit gets fined 100,000 baht ......use the fees to help build schools and other infrastructure

Yep. Then we will need to initiate an alcohol permit, a sugary food or beverage permit, a fatty foods permit, a foul smelling food permit, a 'gassy' food permit, and what the heck we should charge 100,000 per instance for anyone using any form of motorized transport.

Or even a permit for sex, perhaps compulsory for tourists & non-residents, available in books of five at Arrivals - penalty for not having one, say Baht 5,000, watch the balance of payments soar and Thai GDP overtake China in a few short months.

[Soutpeel]

no sympathy for smokers whatsoever....I think they should all be made to buy a smoking permit at 10,000 baht/year for locals or tourists 10,000 baht per entry into Thailand......anyone without a permit gets fined 100,000 baht ......use the fees to help build schools and other infrastructure

Yep. Then we will need to initiate an alcohol permit, a sugary food or beverage permit, a fatty foods permit, a foul smelling food permit, a 'gassy' food permit, and what the heck we should charge 100,000 per instance for anyone using any form of motorized transport.

Or even a permit for sex, perhaps compulsory for tourists & non-residents, available in books of five at Arrivals - penalty for not having one, say Baht 5,000, watch the balance of payments soar and Thai GDP overtake China in a few short months.

hows about an Farang OAP Marriage tax.....two thousand baht for every year of age difference between the Farang OAP and his Thai wife ?...