Retirement Visa (again!)

[RDN]

Effectively the same. With an O-A, you enter Don Muang, say on Sept 1, 2005, and they'll stamp your passport "admitted until Aug 31, 2006." With an 'O' visa, ...

That "O" visa can then be converted in Thailand to an O-A "retirement" visa

Not really. It can be extended if you meet the retirement criteria to allow for a one year stay. But no one in Thailand is ever going to stamp "O-A" in your passport....

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Nice post Jim - just what I was going to say.

If you apply for an O-A in UK it can only be done at the Thai Embassy in London and it has to be done in person - no mail applications accepted.

The UK police clearance required for the O-A visa may take 6 weeks or so to complete, though I talked to a Brit the other day in Bangkok who received his in less than 3 weeks....

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I'm a Brit and went the O-A route because I wanted it all sorted before I got to Thailand. My police clearance took 8 days - maybe a record? - because it was blank. The copper in the cop shop - sorry, policeman at the station - said if there were any entries, it would have taken up to 8 weeks (40 working days).

wow......my head is spinning!!!

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I know! Fun, isn't it?

[Farang-Kha]

It requires two steps - tourist to non immigrant at cost of 2,000 baht and later non immigrant to extension of stay for retirement at 1,900 baht.

There is no need for a multi entry non immigrant O visa but yes, they do seem to be available at some consulates.

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Thank you very much. Can you give me a clue as to what type of non-immigrant visa I would be able apply for - bearing in mind my understanding (which might be wrong) of what are possible eligible categories? The 2000 baht is not an issue - but I don't want to come all the way over just to be sent away to start again because I've hopelessly got it wrong....

I'm beginning to feel a bit lost...............

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FK - As you can see things are never set in stone accross the board from country to country, consulate to consulate or from one time period to another.

I wish there were some Brits participating in this who have recently been through this to bring in that perspective, but no luck yet. Also to tell you if there are Honarary Consulates in GB or not (because, believe me, here they make the process a simple joy as far as my experience goes so far, and according to what I have read here). However from what I can tell the rules for Brits and Yanks are the same as far as our discussion is concerned. (guys - correct me if wrong, please)

That having been said, and repeating that I am not an expert on these visa issues (but trying hard to be by reading all related threads here and talking to any good sources of info here in US, as I am also about to apply) here are maybe some answers.

A "non-imm O" is a "non-imm O" is a "non-imm O". You listed many of the reasons on which they will grant a "non-imm O" but in any case you still end up with the same "non-imm O" visa. So it is not what type of visa to apply for, but rather what justification to give, I guess. I do not think the reasons you listed are all of the reasons because at least here in USA they seem to be granting on some other basis without effort.

On the application it asks "Purpose of visit". I guess, this is what we need to know. Does anyone here have a good answer to that question? I will ask an HC or two tomorrow what they think I should be saying, as Retirement does not seem to be the correct answer at this stage. Perhaps the honest answer would be "to see if I want to remain in Thailand on a retirement basis or on some other approved basis". Not sure if that would fly with the consulate in GB or not, but suspect that almost any reasonable answer would suffice here for the "non-imm O".

If you do not have any HCs in GB and we do not get any response here from Brits who have been through it then you may want to inquire with the people at the Thai consulate there as to what they think about this (at some point down the road). Again I will check with one or more of the HCs here on how they want this question answered. It is such a joy to work with them as they are normal, friendly and helpful people who are happy to guide you through the process as long as you seem to be a reasonable person who meets the necessary criteria.

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Thank you very much for this reply, Seeker. I think that what you are saying seems to make a great deal of sense, and I am now much clearer (I think) on the possibilities. There doesn't seem to be a great deal of flexibility - but I can now see how it might work. It seems to me now (rightly or wrongly) that the crux of the 'problem' is to be able to get an non-immigrant 'O' visa before departure (rather than a Tourist's visa). As you rightly point out - finding the right reason could be a make-or-break. I really would be disappointed if I were 'forced' into a Tourist visa by the consulate or embassy instead - as that rather appears to be a more tenuous option. I'm really at a loss, though, as to what might be a really legitimate reason (...other than retirement!! ).

I'll be going back to the UK from the USA on Tuesday 19th, and will go to the 'friendly' consulate in Hull and see what they have to say. I'll let the forum know what the outcome is - so at least it will be 'from the horse's mouth'.

I'll keep you updated - good luck with your own application!!

[Farang-Kha]

I wish there were some Brits participating in this who have recently been through this to bring in that perspective, but no luck yet.  Also to tell you if there are Honarary Consulates in GB or not (because, believe me, here they make the process a simple joy as far as my experience goes so far, and according to what I have read here).  However from what I can tell the rules for Brits and Yanks are the same as far as our discussion is concerned. (guys - correct me if wrong, please)

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I'm a bit confused myself as to whether FK is a UK or US citizen, is in the UK or the US........

She's a Brit. Just happens to be in the USA since April (the broadband is faster so it's easier to research from here ! ) returning to the UK next week, and planning to leave for Thailand end August. No plans thereafter !....

Anyhow, I'm a Brit and I'm in the UK  .  Having been up and down the forum for the past 8 months, I'm sure that there's no difference between US & UK citizens for the purposes of this discussion.

There certainly are quite a few Thai Consulates in the UK - here's a link to a list of them:

http://www.thailand-uk.com/visas.html

I'm grateful for those links, Steve. The Hull Consulate one seems wonderfully clear.

It's a shame that there seems to be quite so much local interpretation within the individual consulates. Certainly what Hull is saying (in clear print) is that it is possible to visit friends in Thailand (on a non-imm 'O' visa) and then apply for a resident's visa in Immigration. So that's now quite clear to me. As an aside, I'm puzzled as to why the Thais would give a completely different visa for visiting friends/relatives than they do for tourism, as they amount to pretty much the same thing I would have thought. However, ours not to reason why........

In practice, which one you pick in terms of geographical location is irrelevant as nearly all visa applications are dealt with by post (or "mail" if you're linguistically American  ). Which brings us to the question of which might be more user-friendly and there's no doubt that Hull is top of most people's list.

........but the do call it the Post Office - even though they use a mail-box

I've spoken to the Hull Honorary Consul (Alan Taylor) myself - he is 100% helpful and a delightful guy. I understand from other forum posts that the lady that works in his office is likewise very helpful and knowledgeable. If you are still confused, I can assure you that Hull will clarify matters quickly and easily. They want to help you get to Thailand.

As per the guidance on the Hull Consulate website

http://www.thaiconsul-uk.com/visas.asp

the non-imm "O" visa can be issued (by Hull, for example) for the purposes of "visiting friends in Thailand" - as well as for visiting relatives.

http://www.thaiconsul-uk.com/pdfs/Ad%20%20...ion%20Notes.pdf

That "O" visa can then be converted in Thailand to an O-A "retirement" visa. The Consulate can't issue the O-A (if that's what you decide to go for from the outset) - that has to be done through the London Embassy.

Does that answer everything? In any event, I would suggest that you call the Hull Consulate to put your mind at rest.

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That's a brilliant post, Steve - and I am extremely grateful for your patience and care. Yes - I am now 'much' clearer, and I think I can see the wood for the trees. Thank you so much

[Farang-Kha]

by going through the 'staged' method you mention that I would NOT get a O-A visa, but just an extension of an 'O' visa?? If so - is that effectively the same thing as a retirement (O-A) visa - or would I subsequently have to go through yet another stage to get that?

Effectively the same. With an O-A, you enter Don Muang, say on Sept 1, 2005, and they'll stamp your passport "admitted until Aug 31, 2006." With an 'O' visa, you'll get a stamp that says "admitted until Nov 29, 2005" (90 days). Or with a tourist visa, "admitted until Oct 30, 2005" (60 days). Then you do the drill with Immigration in Thailand to get an extension based on retirement. Eventually, you'll get a stamp that says "application of stay is permitted up to Aug 31, 2006" -- samo samo one year you got with the O-A, only the effort was done on this side of the pond, where no police report is required -- and the physical is a snap compared to what it might be in the West (cost, wait, inconvenient). But in both cases -- O-A or O extended in Thailand -- come August 2006, both will be in the same boat, as now getting the second year in Thailand is idenitical for both categories.

Crystal clear now, thank you Jim. I'm honestly grateful for you taking that extra time to explain. I had half guessed that was what you were alluding to - but I don't think you could have explained it more lucidly. Thank you

Why get an O-A? Well, with some Honorary Consulates, it's relatively painless. AND you're pre approved, at least for the first year's stay in Thailand, before moving lock, stock and barrel to Thailand. [Caveat: If your O-A visa is not 'multi entry', you'll need to get a reentry stamp from Immigration should you want to leave and reenter Thailand during your 'admitted until' period.]

I presume that's basically a few hundred more baht, but a relatively painless process?

Seeker,

The Colorado Honorary Consulate, reviewing comments by several posters, has not read the ambiguities of Thai Immigration Law as favorably as some other honorary consulates in the States have. Suggest you try another.

That "O" visa can then be converted in Thailand to an O-A "retirement" vis

Not really. It can be extended if you meet the retirement criteria to allow for a one year stay. But no one in Thailand is ever going to stamp "O-A" in your passport. The practical results, per earlier discussion, are the same. But this confusion can, apparently, lead some to get police reports not needed if they plan to do the age, financial, and medical drill in Thailand, not in their home country.

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That last point is also of value to me. I haven't much time (and no car since I sold mine just after selling my house) so I'm not in a very powerful position to idle time away in the UK running around with a lot of documents, medicals and so on. For me it's much neater (but not esential) to get it all done in Thailand....

Jim - thank you so much! I now feel I'm starting to understand this mire......oops - I mean 'more'....... )

[Farang-Kha]

Yet another Question ....... or two.....

Now that I've got this pretty clear in my mind, I'd like to clarify one other thing - please.... again it's something about which opinions seem to differ on this forum.

If I manage to get a non-imm 'O' visa, and convert it to 'Extended for Retirement Purposes" once I'm in Thailand, what validation do I have to have on my income? I can meet the financial requirements with both cash (currently in UK bank) and with pension income (again paid into a UK bank). Would I need to get that documentation notarised in the UK first (presumably by the bank??) or can I get that done once in Thailand? Similarly, I believe there is also a requirement for some sort of letter (again notarised) to say that I intend to retire to Thailand. If I do 'convert' the visa in Thailand - is the notarisation process all 'do-able' there - or is it less hassle to get it all prepared in advance?

Finally - is it correct to say that the financial funding source can remain off-shore, or is it necessary to have cash flowing and/or deposited in Thailand in order to qualify?

..... so many questions.......but now also so many answers - for which I am most grateful !

[Steve2UK]

Yet another Question     ....... or two.....

Now that I've got this pretty clear in my mind, I'd like to clarify one other thing - please.... again it's something about which opinions seem to differ on this forum.

If I manage to get a non-imm 'O' visa, and convert it to 'Extended for Retirement Purposes" once I'm in Thailand, what validation do I have to have on my income?  I can meet the financial requirements with both cash (currently in UK bank) and with pension income (again paid into a UK bank). Would I need to get that documentation notarised in the UK first (presumably by the bank??) or can I get that done once in Thailand? Similarly, I believe there is also a requirement for some sort of letter (again notarised) to say that I intend to retire to Thailand. If I do 'convert' the visa in Thailand - is the notarisation process all 'do-able' there - or is it less hassle to get it all prepared in advance?

Finally - is it correct to say that the financial funding source can remain off-shore, or is it necessary to have cash flowing and/or deposited in Thailand in order to qualify?

..... so many questions.......but now also so many answers - for which I am most grateful !

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I'll confine my answer to the last point as I don't yet have first-hand knowledge of the notarisation process and requirements - particularly at the Thai end. Others should be able to advise you - whether they're UK or US citizens (it shouldn't matter for this). Or you can phone the Hull Consulate - it's very unlikely that you'll need to actually go there in person.

Your funds should be (or at least start) offshore - e.g. in a UK bank. Not only will you get a better rate of interest than in Thailand, but a year later on - when it comes to annual extension of your O-A "retirement visa" - you will need to be able to show that the required funds (800,000 baht for a foreigner not supporting a Thai wife) in a Thai bank account actually came from outside Thailand. Most people arrange a wire transfer from their UK account to a Thai account and the Thai bank will give you a letter confirming the transaction. You don't need the funds to be in a Thai account until you reach this annual extension stage.

In practice, and depending on your bank, you may need to have set up this transfer facility while in the UK - so that's either before you leave or you'd come back to do it. Your bank will advise you - if a major international bank, they may have a Thailand-based branch/affiliate which might be able to arrange things, but don't "bank" on it . In any case, it makes sense to be able to control your UK account(s) via internet from Thailand - you should also check with your bank about that.

Many Brits in Thailand find a Nationwide account very useful - almost a godsend. You can withdraw funds (up to 20,000 baht per day from most Thai banks, I think) through Thai ATM's at a good exchange rate and with no charge for the transaction - compared to paying £3 & more from other UK banks. Search for "Nationwide" on this forum and you'll find many references to it. Compare the available interest rates - you may want to set up a link from your existing accounts to a Nationwide account or make arrangements for your pension etc to be paid into a Nationwide account.

Realistically, I wonder if you'll be able to guarantee getting all this done by the end of August. If I were you, I'd be allowing to maybe come back and do some of it after my first trip to Thailand - or postpone my trip a couple of weeks or so.

Edited July 16, 2005 by Steve2UK

[Farang-Kha]

Yet another Question     ....... or two.....

Now that I've got this pretty clear in my mind, I'd like to clarify one other thing - please.... again it's something about which opinions seem to differ on this forum.

If I manage to get a non-imm 'O' visa, and convert it to 'Extended for Retirement Purposes" once I'm in Thailand, what validation do I have to have on my income?  I can meet the financial requirements with both cash (currently in UK bank) and with pension income (again paid into a UK bank). Would I need to get that documentation notarised in the UK first (presumably by the bank??) or can I get that done once in Thailand? Similarly, I believe there is also a requirement for some sort of letter (again notarised) to say that I intend to retire to Thailand. If I do 'convert' the visa in Thailand - is the notarisation process all 'do-able' there - or is it less hassle to get it all prepared in advance?

Finally - is it correct to say that the financial funding source can remain off-shore, or is it necessary to have cash flowing and/or deposited in Thailand in order to qualify?

..... so many questions.......but now also so many answers - for which I am most grateful !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll confine my answer to the last point as I don't yet have first-hand knowledge of the notarisation process and requirements - particularly at the Thai end. Others should be able to advise you - whether they're UK or US citizens (it shouldn't matter for this). Or you can phone the Hull Consulate - it's very unlikely that you'll need to actually go there in person.

Your funds should be (or at least start) offshore - e.g. in a UK bank. Not only will you get a better rate of interest than in Thailand, but a year later on - when it comes to annual extension of your O-A "retirement visa" - you will need to be able to show that the required funds (800,000 baht for a foreigner not supporting a Thai wife) in a Thai bank account actually came from outside Thailand. Most people arrange a wire transfer from their UK account to a Thai account and the Thai bank will give you a letter confirming the transaction. You don't need the funds to be in a Thai account until you reach this annual extension stage.

In practice, and depending on your bank, you may need to have set up this transfer facility while in the UK - so that's either before you leave or you'd come back to do it. Your bank will advise you - if a major international bank, they may have a Thailand-based branch/affiliate which might be able to arrange things, but don't "bank" on it . In any case, it makes sense to be able to control your UK account(s) via internet from Thailand - you should also check with your bank about that.

Many Brits in Thailand find a Nationwide account very useful - almost a godsend. You can withdraw funds (up to 20,000 baht per day from most Thai banks, I think) through Thai ATM's at a good exchange rate and with no charge for the transaction - compared to paying £3 & more from other UK banks. Search for "Nationwide" on this forum and you'll find many references to it. Compare the available interest rates - you may want to set up a link from your existing accounts to a Nationwide account or make arrangements for your pension etc to be paid into a Nationwide account.

Realistically, I wonder if you'll be able to guarantee getting all this done by the end of August. If I were you, I'd be allowing to maybe come back and do some of it after my first trip to Thailand - or postpone my trip a couple of weeks or so.

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Thank you very much - again - for another useful and constructive reply.

Thanks - in particular - for clarifying the bank account issue, which seems quite straightforward.

As far as timescales are concerned - I think they are very achievable in view of the fact that now the approach I will be taking is via the 'converted' non-'O' option.

I have already sold my property in the UK (since last December) - moved out - and the household goods I plan shipping are in storage with an international carrier.

I have everything I need - as far as I now understand - to get an 'O' visa from Hull in more-or-less a couple of days. I have almost 7 weeks in which I can 'hand carry' any documentation I need to. According to the Hull site - they process visas 'within 30 minutes'. (Obviously assuming all the right paperwork is in place). I have the sort of bank account where getting letters to confirm my financial status can be done by 'walking in' and asking.

The only barrier to that timescale would have been had I needed to get a police report - which other members have mentioned takes around 4 to 8 weeks. Since the 'converted'-'O' does not need that, I think I now have everything in place to be able to move well before the end of August.

Thank you again.