Allies Insist Thaksin Is Healthy And His Mandela Pictures Not Faked

[hanuman1]

Why is it so inconceivable that Mandela would meet Taksin?

Whether or not his conviction was politically motivated is debatable in foreign circles. The fact that he was illegally removed from office is not, and that will always garner a degree of sympathy among democratic nations whether you like it or not.

Coups are just not the done thing. In Thailand, the electorate may be required to forgive and forget such constitutional infringements but the 'Mai Pen Rai' attitude has never been one of this country's most successful exports. Foreign governments just don't buy it.

Thankfully foreign govts don't seem to be buying the red cause either.

Pretty understandable when they have the guy who presented this photo as "evidence" for an envoy though.

I know you can come up with valid and compelling reasons to dam_n Taksin to hel_l, but if we're talking envoys please bear in mind that foreign governments would be equally well briefed if Kasit came knocking on their door.

Come on. You've got steadier ground to fight on than that, surely.

Edited September 1, 2010 by hanuman1

[rubl]

Why is it so inconceivable that Mandela would meet Taksin?

Whether or not his conviction was politically motivated is debatable in foreign circles. The fact that he was illegally removed from office is not, and that will always garner a degree of sympathy among democratic nations whether you like it or not.

Coups are just not the done thing. In Thailand, the electorate may be required to forgive and forget such constitutional infringements but the 'Mai Pen Rai' attitude has never been one of this country's most successful exports. Foreign governments just don't buy it.

Thankfully foreign govts don't seem to be buying the red cause either.

Pretty understandable when they have the guy who presented this photo as "evidence" for an envoy though.

I know you can come up with valid and compelling reasons to dam_n Taksin to hel_l, but if we're talking envoys please bear in mind that foreign governments would be equally well briefed if Kasit came knocking on their door.

Come on. You've got steadier ground to fight on than that, surely.

Nothing to do with the validity of the photo, but K. Kasit as minister of Foreign Affairs represents the Thai government which was formed in due process by the elected MP's and endorsed by H.M the King. As such he would have more stature than K. Noppadon who borrowed money or paid himself (both statements made) for tickets to fly around the world on his own initiative, meeting or not meeting elected representatives in the US and Europe.

[alex_aka_P]

I disagree completely.South Africa has diplomatic relations with Thailand and an Embassy in Bangkok.Thaksin is a fugitive from justice.If the photo is faked then we will hear about it from the South Africans.If it is not faked we will hear nothing I suspect.

Having an Embassy is nothing more but "the question of face". Welcome to the real world, Neo.

Russia has an embassy? Yes. Proceed to read abt Mr.Bout.

Cambodia has an embassy? Yes. Proceed to read abt Preah Vihear.

SA has an embassy? Yes. Proceed to read abt Montenegrin, or Nicaraguan, or Ugandian or whoever-he-could-be-but-not-Thai-at -that-time(!) in SA.

SA Embassy has nothing to report to TH in this case, that's how I am taking it.

Edited September 1, 2010 by alex_aka_P

[tomyummer]

Strange how the back of Tacky's hand is 'white' and yet his fingers are 'black'!

Good observation. Who's next? I'd love to see the Obama one.

[rubl]

I disagree completely.South Africa has diplomatic relations with Thailand and an Embassy in Bangkok.Thaksin is a fugitive from justice.If the photo is faked then we will hear about it from the South Africans.If it is not faked we will hear nothing I suspect.

Having an Embassy is nothing more but "the question of face". Welcome to the real world, Neo.

Russia has an embassy? Yes. Proceed to read abt Mr.Bout.

Cambodia has an embassy? Yes. Proceed to read abt Preah Vihear.

SA has an embassy? Yes. Proceed to read abt Montenegrin, or Nicaraguan, or Ugandian or whoever-he-could-be-but-not-Thai-at -that-time(!) in SA.

SA Embassy has nothing to report to TH in this case, that's how I am taking it.

since you seem to be the only one here who knows about photo-editing, look at the new one as mentioned a few replies before.

As for embassies, they only issue statements when they feel a need to defend something, or when thoroughly pressed.

[alex_aka_P]

among democratic nations whether you like it or not.

Could you please remind me those pure "democratic nations" pls? Just gimme a samples. Have never see even one, except in someone's dreams.

[Hakuchi]

I disagree completely.South Africa has diplomatic relations with Thailand and an Embassy in Bangkok.Thaksin is a fugitive from justice.If the photo is faked then we will hear about it from the South Africans.If it is not faked we will hear nothing I suspect.

Having an Embassy is nothing more but "the question of face". Welcome to the real world, Neo.

Russia has an embassy? Yes. Proceed to read abt Mr.Bout.

Cambodia has an embassy? Yes. Proceed to read abt Preah Vihear.

SA has an embassy? Yes. Proceed to read abt Montenegrin, or Nicaraguan, or Ugandian or whoever-he-could-be-but-not-Thai-at -that-time(!) in SA.

SA Embassy has nothing to report to TH in this case, that's how I am taking it.

Doesn't Kasit invite all foreign envoys for weekly lessons to give them instructions and updates about the evilness of Thaksin?

Now yo are saying they give a ****? Poor Kasit.

[hanuman1]

Why is it so inconceivable that Mandela would meet Taksin?

Whether or not his conviction was politically motivated is debatable in foreign circles. The fact that he was illegally removed from office is not, and that will always garner a degree of sympathy among democratic nations whether you like it or not.

Coups are just not the done thing. In Thailand, the electorate may be required to forgive and forget such constitutional infringements but the 'Mai Pen Rai' attitude has never been one of this country's most successful exports. Foreign governments just don't buy it.

Thankfully foreign govts don't seem to be buying the red cause either.

Pretty understandable when they have the guy who presented this photo as "evidence" for an envoy though.

I know you can come up with valid and compelling reasons to dam_n Taksin to hel_l, but if we're talking envoys please bear in mind that foreign governments would be equally well briefed if Kasit came knocking on their door.

Come on. You've got steadier ground to fight on than that, surely.

Nothing to do with the validity of the photo, but K. Kasit as minister of Foreign Affairs represents the Thai government which was formed in due process by the elected MP's and endorsed by H.M the King. As such he would have more stature than K. Noppadon who borrowed money or paid himself (both statements made) for tickets to fly around the world on his own initiative, meeting or not meeting elected representatives in the US and Europe.

Agree 100%, and I'm sure Mandela would be equally happy to meet Kasit. Both Kasit and Taksin are 'meet-able' because - to use your term - they both have stature. One as a serving FM, the other as an illegally deposed PM. That's why I was surprised that so people on this thread are so ready to dismiss the photo as a fake.

[rubl]

among democratic nations whether you like it or not.

Could you please remind me those pure "democratic nations" pls? Just gimme a samples. Have never see even one, except in someone's dreams.

Democracy is a political form of government where governing power is derived from the people, either by direct referendum (direct democracy) or by means of elected representatives of the people (representative democracy).

Don't know about 'pure', may be something like more than 100%? In that case you maybe talking about Utopia

[alex_aka_P]

since you seem to be the only one here who knows about photo-editing, look at the new one as mentioned a few replies before.

And what should I look at?

The pic is a fake, I said it since the beginning (see prev.pages) and now saying it to you once again. Who's next?

As for embassies, they only issue statements when they feel a need to defend something, or when thoroughly pressed.

They do NOT issue statements by themselves, but only by request/order of their homeland MFA's. They themselves are unable to make own juristical decisions in such of cases, for your information. They can only make decisions on private level (grant you a visa, for example. Or not grant).

Pls, read the basics before you post.

[hanuman1]

among democratic nations whether you like it or not.

Could you please remind me those pure "democratic nations" pls? Just gimme a samples. Have never see even one, except in someone's dreams.

I was referring to countries that consider themselves democratic.

And I never said anything about 'pure'.

PS - please read posts properly before replying to them.

[rubl]

since you seem to be the only one here who knows about photo-editing, look at the new one as mentioned a few replies before.

And what should I look at?

The pic is a fake, I said it since the beginning (see prev.pages) and now saying it to you once again. Who's next?

The pic mentioned in reply #68 may be of better quality. I thought professional curiosity might impel you to have a look. That's all.

As for embassies, forget it, not important for this OP.

Edited September 1, 2010 by rubl

[alex_aka_P]

Democracy is a political form of government where governing power is derived from the people, either by direct referendum (direct democracy) or by means of elected representatives of the people (representative democracy).

Blahblahblah...

Samples, pls? Existing samples.

you maybe talking about Utopia

That's what I meant.

When they'll open an Embassy in Bkk - I'll be the first in queue.

Unfortunately, you just can't be "partially pregnant". You are (already), or you're not (yet). Your country is a democratic one (already), or it is not (yet).

Talking about pure democracy, the first choice (yet) not exist. And never will. :jap:

[alex_aka_P]

The pic mentioned in reply #68 may be of better quality. I thought professional curiosity might impel you to have a look. That's all.

Thats OK, I just see it as a fake since the beginning. A better quality fake still be a fake.

[rubl]

Democracy is a political form of government where governing power is derived from the people, either by direct referendum (direct democracy) or by means of elected representatives of the people (representative democracy).

Blahblahblah...

Samples, pls? Existing samples.

you maybe talking about Utopia

That's what I meant.

When they'll open an Embassy in Bkk - I'll be the first in queue.

Unfortunately, you just can't be "partially pregnant". You are (already), or you're not (yet). Your country is a democratic one (already), or it is not (yet).

Talking about pure democracy, the first choice (yet) not exist. And never will. :jap:

You should have kept the second quote intact as "Don't know about 'pure', may be something like more than 100%? In that case you maybe talking about Utopia". You started about 'pure'.

[alex_aka_P]

I was referring to countries that consider themselves democratic.

Well than, I am also feel and consider myself as a Chinese Emperor. Am I a Chinese Emperor, or should I be sent to the nearest psycho clinic?

And I never said anything about 'pure'.

No, you did not. I did it while asking you for a sample. "Consider themselves as a sample" will not work here (as it leads to the clinic, as we see), thus you should provide a GOOD sample as long as you started to mention about "democratic countries".

That's what I asked (and you've failed, YAWN).

Edited September 1, 2010 by alex_aka_P

[rubl]

I was referring to countries that consider themselves democratic.

Well than, I am also feel and consider myself as a Chinese Emperor. Am I a Chinese Emperor, or should I be sent to the nearest psycho clinic?

And I never said anything about 'pure'.

No, you did not. I did it while asking you for a sample. "Consider themselves as a sample" will not work here (as it leads to the clinic, as we see), thus you should provide a GOOD sample as long as you started to mention about "democratic countries".

That's what I asked (and you've failed, YAWN).

Failed ? As emperor you demand an answer or some-one fails ? Maybe the psycho clinic you mentioned would be the right place

[hanuman1]

I was referring to countries that consider themselves democratic.

Well than, I am also feel and consider myself as a Chinese Emperor. Am I a Chinese Emperor, or should I be sent to the nearest psycho clinic?

And I never said anything about 'pure'.

No, you did not. I did it while asking you for a sample. "Consider themselves as a sample" will not work here (as it leads to the clinic, as we see), thus you should provide a GOOD sample as long as you started to mention about "democratic countries".

That's what I asked (and you've failed, YAWN).

Out of sympathy for everyone else reading this thread apart from you, I now declare this pointless exercise in pedantry CLOSED.

Now please go back to sleep.

Edited September 1, 2010 by hanuman1

[asiawatcher]

If Nelson Mandela's office confirms Thakky had been there and confirmed the photo it would be believable but Mandela is a man of presence and ethics. Why would he even grant an audience to a crim like Thaksin?

[TAWP]

I am not convinced that the photo is fake.

None of the 'proofs' sofar posted can be guaranteed to not be due to compression artifacts.

If we are talking creds, I have worked for a professional photo company that apart from developing film on paper and celluloid also did digital retouching for print, anything ranging from information booklets for museums to center fold photo shots for Hustler magazine.

Aaanyway...

[jayboy]

If Nelson Mandela's office confirms Thakky had been there and confirmed the photo it would be believable but Mandela is a man of presence and ethics. Why would he even grant an audience to a crim like Thaksin?

Because for most of the outside and informed world Thaksin - despite all his flaws (and they are many) - represents more than anyone else the Thai majority.So despite the rants and lies and froth of the criminal corrupt feudalist elite, the world at large recognises the truth

[hanuman1]

If Nelson Mandela's office confirms Thakky had been there and confirmed the photo it would be believable but Mandela is a man of presence and ethics. Why would he even grant an audience to a crim like Thaksin?

Because to you he's a crim, but to Mandela he just 'maybe a crim'.

And Taksin would look a complete idiot if Mandela's office denied the meeting took place. Why would he risk that? The meeting would appear to be a matter of public knowledge. Surely it would be pretty easy to get an official confirmation/denial of it happening.

For all Taksin's faults, I think he certainly knows a thing or two about marketing. It doesn't make any sense to fake such a verifiable event.

[Buchholz]

I personally think this meeting never took place, as the court case against the guy who killed Nelson Mandela's great granddaughter in a car crash was postponed to August 27 by the Johannesburg Magistrate's Court, so somehow, dont think he would have been in mood for a photo-op with the esteemed Ex-PM of Thailand.

That's the same date Noppadon said for the other alleged photo with Nelson's wife. Anyone wanna give a crack at whether this one is fake or not?

[rubl]

If Nelson Mandela's office confirms Thakky had been there and confirmed the photo it would be believable but Mandela is a man of presence and ethics. Why would he even grant an audience to a crim like Thaksin?

Because for most of the outside and informed world Thaksin - despite all his flaws (and they are many) - represents more than anyone else the Thai majority.So despite the rants and lies and froth of the criminal corrupt feudalist elite, the world at large recognises the truth

You have a way with words, jayboy. I think some part of this world we live on also recognizes K. Thaksin is part of a criminally corrupt elite which dominated their part of the country in a paternalistic way keeping the masses down and them rich.

Of course none of this has anything to do with whether the photo is true or not

[Hakuchi]

I am not convinced that the photo is fake.

None of the 'proofs' sofar posted can be guaranteed to not be due to compression artifacts.

If we are talking creds, I have worked for a professional photo company that apart from developing film on paper and celluloid also did digital retouching for print, anything ranging from information booklets for museums to center fold photo shots for Hustler magazine.

Aaanyway...

I agree with your point about the compression artifacts,...

but your self claimed creds are dubious worthless as they come from an anonymous in an internet discussion. even if true, you just could have been their coffee boy or office cleaning lady and still work for them.

better show your professionalism with your knowledge and content in your comments.

[Englander]

If Nelson Mandela's office confirms Thakky had been there and confirmed the photo it would be believable but Mandela is a man of presence and ethics. Why would he even grant an audience to a crim like Thaksin?

Apart from the ANC with him in charge being responsible for the genocide of white farmers, crimes that are happening to this day, and him fathering children and having nothing to do with them he's full of ethics.

[Buchholz]

If Nelson Mandela's office confirms Thakky had been there and confirmed the photo it would be believable but Mandela is a man of presence and ethics. Why would he even grant an audience to a crim like Thaksin?

He needed a refill on his Ugandan SIM card so he asked the telecommunications guru of Africa to hook him up and Thaksin subsequently brought him one from the headquarters of his regional distribution center.

I think he's pointing at the Research and Development wing of the huge complex.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Buchholz

[TAWP]

I am not convinced that the photo is fake.

None of the 'proofs' sofar posted can be guaranteed to not be due to compression artifacts.

If we are talking creds, I have worked for a professional photo company that apart from developing film on paper and celluloid also did digital retouching for print, anything ranging from information booklets for museums to center fold photo shots for Hustler magazine.

Aaanyway...

I agree with your point about the compression artifacts,...

but your self claimed creds are dubious worthless as they come from an anonymous in an internet discussion. even if true, you just could have been their coffee boy or office cleaning lady and still work for them.

To be overly obvious, I was one of the people doing the touch-ups of the digital images we got in.

better show your professionalism with your knowledge and content in your comments.

I did. And I say that we cannot say anything for sure yet.

[Buchholz]

center fold photo shots for Hustler magazine.

Please post proof of that.

[rubl]

I did. And I say that we cannot say anything for sure yet.

Correct. Let's stop this fruitless discussion. Wait and see if we can get news from our correspondent in South Africa or the Embassy here . The 27th is barely a week ago and this photo-op wouldn't be important news unless someone starts/started asking questions.