Emergency Declared In Thailand

EmptyMind · July 16, 2005

I hope Bush isn't watching Thai TV.

Why?

After 9/11 Bush () did exactly the same.

With Patriotic act (USAPA) United States said goodbye to freedom.

Patriotic allow US government to seize library, medical, travel and other personal information of any American citizen, not just suspected terrorists. It allow US government to hold people for indefinite periods of time without charging them with a crime. It allow US government to issue secret subpoenas without probable cause. It allow US government the federal government to infiltrate legal political organizations that have no connection to terrorism. It allow US federal government to halt legal political protests.

By the way the Patriotic act has a lot similarity with Hitler's Ermächtigungsgesetz (Enabling Act).

So PM TaxiNoNightClub is just following other countries footsteps

Strange enough these terrorists acts give government leader super powers and freedom to do whatever they like in the name of national security..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Day America Died

America as a free nation died on June 23rd, 2005. Death came without mercy at the hands of the United States Supreme Court which ruled, in a split 5-4 decision, that a city has the right to steal an American citizen's property without due course and turn it over to private developers. Death came to America after a prolonged period of life support. The United States has, for too long, been in a persistent vegetative state, brought on by a government that has abandoned the protections once guaranteed by the Constitution. The Bush administration, using fear of terrorism as a political sledgehammer, has stripped Americans of the right to counsel, the right to privacy and threatened even freedom of expression by suggesting that anyone who dares disagree with Dubya's extremist right-wing views is a traitor to the flag.

But the Supreme Court yanked this ailing nation off life support Thursday by proving, as Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has said, the "Constitution is an outdated document."

Incredible. Simply incredible. The Supremes, abandoning any reason, ruled the City of New London, CT, can seize property of private homeowners and give it to a private developer who wants to build condos and office buildings along the city's waterfront.

"The U.S. Supreme Court destroyed everybody's lives today, everybody who owns a home," said Richard Beyer, who will lose his property in New London.

The Supreme Court destroyed far more. It destroyed the American way of life, the American dream of home ownership and the concept that one's property is their own and protected from those who want it for their own greedy purposes.

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor voted against the court's appalling ruling and wrote the dissent.

"Today the Court abandons this long-held, basic limitation on government power," Justice O'Connor wrote. "Under the banner of economic development, all private property is now vulnerable to being taken and transferred to another private owner."

Up until now, we have had to depend on the court to stop the ever-increasing encroachment by the government into our lives. The courts have been the only path left to stop the Bush administration's assault on freedom and the Constitution.

No more. The last hope for America died when the court sided with land speculators and fatcats who already control all the other branches of local, state and federal governments with their checkbooks and political action committees.

At one time, we who called America home considered it the home of the brave and the land of the free.

No more. We ceased being the home of the brave on September 11, 2001, when a band of thugs hijacked airliners and crashed them into the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon. Our president, seizing on the politics of the moment, used fear to turn this nation into a police state.

On Thursday, five justices of the U.S. Supreme Court destroyed the land of the free. If people cannot own property without living in fear that the government can take it and turn it over to the fatcats who own our elected officials, then we are no longer free.

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose," songwriter Kris Kristofferson wrote in his song, Me and Bobby McGee.

There's nothing left to lose. The government and the courts have taken it all.

klymr · July 16, 2005

Oh boy... been trying to avoid responding to this topic but enuff already...
Not surprisingly, we've read posts invoking all sorts of knee jerk reactions, conspiracy theories etc, the gammot.

To break this down, at least a bit-

Some Pondoks (Islamic schools) prey upon poor and uneducated kids (ripe for nurturing hatred) are the nucleus of the problem. They start by preaching hatred and alienation to innocent kids and later (combined with localised or 'formed' socio economic conditions) eventually produce a few who apparently believe murdering innocent people and becoming a so-called "martyr" is far preferrable to the dismal life alternatives presented, formed and nurtured. Similar to programming a cult member. Sick sick sick

Throughout history, people seeking power have used various "holy" books (Q'uran, Bible, etc, etc etc!) to preach the same crap for their own ends. I lean more towards a Buddhist belief system but surely, if there is a God, there is only one and with many names.

I for one, won't be manipulated, nor intimidated, nor of such weak will as to "simply" condemn any entire faith for the cowardly acts of a few.

Instead of firing into crowds of demonstrators and piling the survivors like cattle to be crushed and suffocated in trucks again (this time with a self imposed mandate?) a better approach would be to infiltrate these Pondoks with intel and arrest the teachers and preachers of hate and follow the food chain up.

I'd rather be in a fox hole with a humanist/pluralist than any coward of any stripe. If one reduces his/her view to suspect ALL people of Muslim faith are bent on anarchy, you're not far removed from the greater fear (for reasoned ppl at least) that you're in grave danger of becoming exactly what you in fact fear most

Last, this whole news alert is a tempest in a teapot imho. By Monday, the govt's posturing will be softened considerably, or at least, great pains will be made to point out, the "enitire nation" isn't under house arrest as some seem to think. Geez!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I found the commentary by Soumayya Ghannoushi, a Muslim woman living in London to sum up the whole matter of Muslim extremists.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/25D...2120BEA180F.htm

Boon Mee · July 16, 2005

When you see evil, have the guts to call it by it's real name: EVIL

What is it with liberals and their need to deny the existence of evil?

Must be some kind of feel-good addiction that I don't understand. Look at me, I'm stepping over mangled, murdered innocents to reach out to the "downtrodden

thaibebop · July 16, 2005

I hope Bush isn't watching Thai TV.

Why?

After 9/11 Bush () did exactly the same.

With Patriotic act (USAPA) United States said goodbye to freedom.

Patriotic allow US government to seize library, medical, travel and other personal information of any American citizen, not just suspected terrorists. It allow US government to hold people for indefinite periods of time without charging them with a crime. It allow US government to issue secret subpoenas without probable cause. It allow US government the federal government to infiltrate legal political organizations that have no connection to terrorism. It allow US federal government to halt legal political protests.

By the way the Patriotic act has a lot similarity with Hitler's Ermächtigungsgesetz (Enabling Act).

So PM TaxiNoNightClub is just following other countries footsteps

Strange enough these terrorists acts give government leader super powers and freedom to do whatever they like in the name of national security..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Believe me I know! My Father's side of the family all voted for Bush becasue they are afraid of losing their 2nd admen rights. I told them with te gov becoming all powerful you'll need those guns. I can't believe people who don't trust the gov (right wingers) vote for Bush.....<deleted>?

thaibebop · July 16, 2005

I hope Bush isn't watching Thai TV.

Why?

After 9/11 Bush () did exactly the same.

With Patriotic act (USAPA) United States said goodbye to freedom.

Patriotic allow US government to seize library, medical, travel and other personal information of any American citizen, not just suspected terrorists. It allow US government to hold people for indefinite periods of time without charging them with a crime. It allow US government to issue secret subpoenas without probable cause. It allow US government the federal government to infiltrate legal political organizations that have no connection to terrorism. It allow US federal government to halt legal political protests.

By the way the Patriotic act has a lot similarity with Hitler's Ermächtigungsgesetz (Enabling Act).

So PM TaxiNoNightClub is just following other countries footsteps

Strange enough these terrorists acts give government leader super powers and freedom to do whatever they like in the name of national security..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Day America Died

America as a free nation died on June 23rd, 2005. Death came without mercy at the hands of the United States Supreme Court which ruled, in a split 5-4 decision, that a city has the right to steal an American citizen's property without due course and turn it over to private developers. Death came to America after a prolonged period of life support. The United States has, for too long, been in a persistent vegetative state, brought on by a government that has abandoned the protections once guaranteed by the Constitution. The Bush administration, using fear of terrorism as a political sledgehammer, has stripped Americans of the right to counsel, the right to privacy and threatened even freedom of expression by suggesting that anyone who dares disagree with Dubya's extremist right-wing views is a traitor to the flag.

But the Supreme Court yanked this ailing nation off life support Thursday by proving, as Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has said, the "Constitution is an outdated document."

Incredible. Simply incredible. The Supremes, abandoning any reason, ruled the City of New London, CT, can seize property of private homeowners and give it to a private developer who wants to build condos and office buildings along the city's waterfront.

"The U.S. Supreme Court destroyed everybody's lives today, everybody who owns a home," said Richard Beyer, who will lose his property in New London.

The Supreme Court destroyed far more. It destroyed the American way of life, the American dream of home ownership and the concept that one's property is their own and protected from those who want it for their own greedy purposes.

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor voted against the court's appalling ruling and wrote the dissent.

"Today the Court abandons this long-held, basic limitation on government power," Justice O'Connor wrote. "Under the banner of economic development, all private property is now vulnerable to being taken and transferred to another private owner."

Up until now, we have had to depend on the court to stop the ever-increasing encroachment by the government into our lives. The courts have been the only path left to stop the Bush administration's assault on freedom and the Constitution.

No more. The last hope for America died when the court sided with land speculators and fatcats who already control all the other branches of local, state and federal governments with their checkbooks and political action committees.

At one time, we who called America home considered it the home of the brave and the land of the free.

No more. We ceased being the home of the brave on September 11, 2001, when a band of thugs hijacked airliners and crashed them into the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon. Our president, seizing on the politics of the moment, used fear to turn this nation into a police state.

On Thursday, five justices of the U.S. Supreme Court destroyed the land of the free. If people cannot own property without living in fear that the government can take it and turn it over to the fatcats who own our elected officials, then we are no longer free.

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose," songwriter Kris Kristofferson wrote in his song, Me and Bobby McGee.

There's nothing left to lose. The government and the courts have taken it all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth....could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trail of a thousand years....If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be it's author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by sucide.

Abraham Lincoln, 1838

What does the billboard say, come and play, come and play, forget about the movemnet. Rage Agaiint the Machine- Freedom.

We did it to ourselves. Freedom uncared for destroys itself. I think it was said once that if one person is not free, none of us are.

thaibebop · July 16, 2005

Oh boy... been trying to avoid responding to this topic but enuff already...
Not surprisingly, we've read posts invoking all sorts of knee jerk reactions, conspiracy theories etc, the gammot.

To break this down, at least a bit-

Some Pondoks (Islamic schools) prey upon poor and uneducated kids (ripe for nurturing hatred) are the nucleus of the problem. They start by preaching hatred and alienation to innocent kids and later (combined with localised or 'formed' socio economic conditions) eventually produce a few who apparently believe murdering innocent people and becoming a so-called "martyr" is far preferrable to the dismal life alternatives presented, formed and nurtured. Similar to programming a cult member. Sick sick sick

Throughout history, people seeking power have used various "holy" books (Q'uran, Bible, etc, etc etc!) to preach the same crap for their own ends. I lean more towards a Buddhist belief system but surely, if there is a God, there is only one and with many names.

I for one, won't be manipulated, nor intimidated, nor of such weak will as to "simply" condemn any entire faith for the cowardly acts of a few.

Instead of firing into crowds of demonstrators and piling the survivors like cattle to be crushed and suffocated in trucks again (this time with a self imposed mandate?) a better approach would be to infiltrate these Pondoks with intel and arrest the teachers and preachers of hate and follow the food chain up.

I'd rather be in a fox hole with a humanist/pluralist than any coward of any stripe. If one reduces his/her view to suspect ALL people of Muslim faith are bent on anarchy, you're not far removed from the greater fear (for reasoned ppl at least) that you're in grave danger of becoming exactly what you in fact fear most

Last, this whole news alert is a tempest in a teapot imho. By Monday, the govt's posturing will be softened considerably, or at least, great pains will be made to point out, the "enitire nation" isn't under house arrest as some seem to think. Geez!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I found the commentary by Soumayya Ghannoushi, a Muslim woman living in London to sum up the whole matter of Muslim extremists.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/25D...2120BEA180F.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, if only more Muslims would speak up.

razino · July 16, 2005

Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid.....

and some is down there.......

dezeure · July 16, 2005

Are these bloody muslims ever gonna stop? Jeez what kind of horrible people are these?!?!

Everywhere in the world there are problems, but 95% of all these problems involve muslims... so go figure.

Bombings in Spain, Bombings in London, What's next? France? Belgium? Netherlands?

I'm really getting fed up with these people who condone all their actions because of their religion... Islam... <deleted>@#ed up if you ask me...

Boon Mee · July 16, 2005

A Picture Worth a Thousand Words...

thaibebop · July 16, 2005

A Picture Worth a Thousand Words...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Snowdog · July 17, 2005

I really fail to understand what sort of impact this law will have on the troubled south...after all, the police hardly have a reputation for respecting peoples rights down there as it is.
If the PM in all his wisdom has not been able to come to any agreements in the last 4 years, how is this "breach on civil rights" going to change anything.

Is this the PM's power grab? I recall last time the government declaired a state of emergancy, students were being shot in the streets.

I feel sorry for Thailand, that they vote (get paid) blindly, and then are forced to put up with a corrupt PM as a result.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder why thailand doesn`t send all the muslim population back to malasia where they belong.They can`t get allong with any race of people not even there own race so why should we put up with them

samuislander · July 17, 2005

I wonder what effect this latest "thing" will have on the already dodgey tourism market?

jaloochapurr · July 17, 2005

I just would like to know really how many people replying here have been to the south.

Are there any stories you would like to share.

hkt83100 · July 17, 2005

Also remember he paid for his votes in the first election, he WAS NOT elected, he paid 300 baht per vote in many parts of Thailand ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was told about 500 Baht per vote in the last election, pretty lot of money for "normal" people. Elected? No way!

Paul & Maneerat · July 17, 2005

The frightening thing is that it's almost inevitable that the terror in the south will erupt in Bangkok. I think other provinces are relatively safe because hitting an up country city would not have the impact that an attack in Bangkok would have.

I don't have any answers for the trouble in the south, but in the meantime my wife and I avoid tourist spots in Bangkok now. Governments of the world will soon be issuing advisories against travelling to Bangkok, and since this is the hub for most arrivals it will cripple Thailand. The knock on effect this will have for this beautiful country will be economically catastrophic, I just hope the TRT regime can handle it when it happens.

My only suggestion to Mr. T.S. is to sit down and talk with the terrorists if possible. OK, we don't negotiate with terrorists, but taking Northern Ireland as an example, the IRA delivered terrible atrocities in Ireland and the mainland for many many years. Eventually both sides sat down at the negotiation table. A ceasefire was agreed and this has largely been in place for some years now.

If these terrorists believe they have a just cause and are not just killing for the sake of killing, why can't the two sides sit down to talk under a mutually agreed cease-fire. It will give the beleagured citizens of the south some relief and perhaps lead to a solution. Without it, the south will destroy Thailand and both sides will bear the blame for that. Sorry, no emoticons, I cannot find a shred of levity in this matter.

socalbro · July 17, 2005

Agreed, the prime minister might just be the next Edi Amin.

However the Muslims here and around the world are just way outta

Yet there seems to be some major problem inherent with their religion that leads many to falsly believe Allah sees it fit to murder innocent people in his name.

I for one am sick of it, and any sympathies I may have held for them in the past are well drained by now.

False prophets abound

greenwanderer108 · July 17, 2005

EYE FOR AN EYE, TOOTH FOR A TOOTH???? What is this, the Capulets and Montigues??? If we need to keep in ancient grudges and mutinies that never have a happy ending, why don't we stick to the local ancient remedes.
What the early/pre Thai states used to do in time of conflict for the sake of Unity was send off their daughters or young sisters for marriage with the leader of the other state. This ultimately created family bonds / loyalty that are much harder to sabatage even between the lines of religion. This is highly effective for achieving peace if you ask me.

So what does that entail for the current situation??? Whoever get's Thaksin's daughter, particularly the one still in Uni is certainly a lucky man and ought to be commited to making offspring instead of bombs.

The older daughter not so bad either. How old is she now? Mid twenties??? Heck, even his younger sister, Yingluck, well, I'd do er (inferring a business transaction for you worried sensors )

And what would Mr. T get in return aside from a peaceful tie? Well I'm sure they can send four wives for Ok Awk, whatever that boy's name is. That should settle the score.

Harmony, love, and babies.

That's the best imediate peaceful solution I can think of.

Where's my medal darn it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to feed my own ego or anything but,

Most of the other replies in this thread are pragmatic attempts to fulfill the naturalistic fallacy!!! No one seems to be contributing anything even semi-intelligent except cries and attacks on Thaksin and the Muslims. The 'Muslims' in question aren't any more terrorists than they are victims. If you know anything about the history of the region, this conflict on the Malay peninsula isn't that just happened the past few years, but is rooted as old as Middle Eastern conflicts, if not older...Ofcourse, the various conflicts over thousands of years have been in different forms, reasons, but are certainly not religous cultural conflicts solely, i.e. from Hinduism to Islam and Budhism and the current religous/ethnic struggles between the remaining two.

If you look from recent (last 2000 years) historical perspectives, many peoples have realized the strategic potential of the Malay Peninsula everywhere from Funan's (Pre Khmer) expansion/migration through towards the Indo China heartlands to Persian (Pre Islam) explorers searching for shorter sea/land routes towards China. You might be surprised the historical significance of Nakhon Sri Thamarat as a central port diverse of various ethnic peoples around a thousand years ago.(Regarding the Persians, I have read/studied less about than my knowledge of Funan but I'm sure some history buffs here could back up the exact purpose/expansions of the Persian powers in the region and their purposes over the past 2000 years) all the way up to the age of colonialism and the British control of the peninsula and the establishment of Singapore as a major port. These such events crushed Thai (and even smaller Burmese) historical claims over many years of warfare and vessel type rulership throughout the peninsula.

The reason why Thailand clings on so much to these three provinces is no suprise. The kingdom lost enough face succeeding the states of Kedar, Penang, among other peninsular states/provinces (anyone interested in specifics/years/or other pragmatics only needs 5 minutes of research) to Colonial Britain, which eventually had to give autonomy to the people anyway...

No violence is justified and each side has sufficient events in history to justify their actions no matter what angle you look at it from--- ultimately it comes down to suppression and the soverign right of lands and people. Like I said in my initial post, any violence that continues is on the same basis of the Capulet and Montague fued, which is just a cycle of violence, no one really able to tackle what the current issue is and what exactly is it either side wants.

Those who make comments like 'Crush those terrorists! Dirty Muslims' along these lines should take a stroll out of your world of CNN/BBC and Nescafe, you might learn something authentic. Before you get all emotional with your response, try reading and understanding Allegory of the Cave from Plato's republic first.

Ok, waiting for an intelligent/reflective post now...

Edited July 17, 2005 by greenwanderer108

ozzydom · July 17, 2005

EYE FOR AN EYE, TOOTH FOR A TOOTH???? What is this, the Capulets and Montigues??? If we need to keep in ancient grudges and mutinies that never have a happy ending, why don't we stick to the local ancient remedes.
What the early/pre Thai states used to do in time of conflict for the sake of Unity was send off their daughters or young sisters for marriage with the leader of the other state. This ultimately created family bonds / loyalty that are much harder to sabatage even between the lines of religion. This is highly effective for achieving peace if you ask me.

So what does that entail for the current situation??? Whoever get's Thaksin's daughter, particularly the one still in Uni is certainly a lucky man and ought to be commited to making offspring instead of bombs.

The older daughter not so bad either. How old is she now? Mid twenties??? Heck, even his younger sister, Yingluck, well, I'd do er (inferring a business transaction for you worried sensors )

And what would Mr. T get in return aside from a peaceful tie? Well I'm sure they can send four wives for Ok Awk, whatever that boy's name is. That should settle the score.

Harmony, love, and babies.

That's the best imediate peaceful solution I can think of.

Where's my medal darn it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to feed my own ego or anything but,

Most of the other replies in this thread are pragmatic attempts to fulfill the naturalistic fallacy!!! No one seems to be contributing anything real accept cries and attacks on Thaksin and the Muslims. The 'Muslims' in question aren't any more terrorists than they are victims. If you know anything about the history of the region, this conflict on the Malay peninsula isn't that just happened the past few years, but is rooted as old as Middle Eastern conflicts, if not older...Ofcourse, the various conflicts over thousands of years have been in different forms, reasons, but are certainly not religous cultural conflicts solely, i.e. from Hinduism to Islam and Budhism and the current religous/ethnic struggles between the remaining two.

If you look from recent (last 2000 years) historical perspectives, many peoples have realized the strategic potential of the Malay Peninsula everywhere from Funan's (Pre Khmer) expansion/migration through towards the Indo China heartlands to Persian (Pre Islam) explorers searching for shorter sea/land routes towards China. You might be surprised the historical significance of Nakhon Sri Thamarat as a central port diverse of various ethnic peoples around a thousand years ago.(Regarding the Persians, I have read/studied less about than my knowledge of Funan but I'm sure some history buffs here could back up the exact purpose/expansions of the Persian powers in the region and their purposes over the past 2000 years) all the way up to the age of colonialism and the British control of the peninsula and the establishment of Singapore as a major port. These such events crushed Thai (and even smaller Burmese) historical claims over many years of warfare and vessel type rulership throughout the peninsula.

The reason why Thailand clings on so much to these three provinces is no suprise. The kingdom lost enough face succeeding the states of Kedar, Penang, among other peninsular states/provinces (anyone interested in specifics/years/or other pragmatics only needs 5 minutes of research) to Colonial Britain, which eventually had to give autonomy to the people anyway...

No violence is justified and each side has sufficient events in history to justify their actions no matter what angle you look at it from--- ultimately it comes down to suppression and the soverign right of lands and people. Like I said in my initial post, any violence that continues is on the same basis of the Capulet and Montague fued, which is just a cycle of violence, no one really able to tackle what the current issue is and what exactly is it either side wants.

Those who make comments like 'Crush those terrorists! Dirty Muslims' along these lines should take a stroll out of your world of CNN/BBC and Nescafe, you might learn something authentic. Before you get all emotional with your response, try reading and understanding Allegory of the Cave from Plato's republic first.

Ok, waiting for an intelligent/reflective post now...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aha, its all them bloody Brits fault

capt_canada42 · July 17, 2005

I hope Bush isn't watching Thai TV.

Why?

After 9/11 Bush () did exactly the same.

With Patriotic act (USAPA) United States said goodbye to freedom.

Patriotic allow US government to seize library, medical, travel and other personal information of any American citizen, not just suspected terrorists. It allow US government to hold people for indefinite periods of time without charging them with a crime. It allow US government to issue secret subpoenas without probable cause. It allow US government the federal government to infiltrate legal political organizations that have no connection to terrorism. It allow US federal government to halt legal political protests.

By the way the Patriotic act has a lot similarity with Hitler's Ermächtigungsgesetz (Enabling Act).

So PM TaxiNoNightClub is just following other countries footsteps

Strange enough these terrorists acts give government leader super powers and freedom to do whatever they like in the name of national security..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Day America Died

America as a free nation died on June 23rd, 2005. Death came without mercy at the hands of the United States Supreme Court which ruled, in a split 5-4 decision, that a city has the right to steal an American citizen's property without due course and turn it over to private developers. Death came to America after a prolonged period of life support. The United States has, for too long, been in a persistent vegetative state, brought on by a government that has abandoned the protections once guaranteed by the Constitution. The Bush administration, using fear of terrorism as a political sledgehammer, has stripped Americans of the right to counsel, the right to privacy and threatened even freedom of expression by suggesting that anyone who dares disagree with Dubya's extremist right-wing views is a traitor to the flag.

But the Supreme Court yanked this ailing nation off life support Thursday by proving, as Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has said, the "Constitution is an outdated document."

Incredible. Simply incredible. The Supremes, abandoning any reason, ruled the City of New London, CT, can seize property of private homeowners and give it to a private developer who wants to build condos and office buildings along the city's waterfront.

"The U.S. Supreme Court destroyed everybody's lives today, everybody who owns a home," said Richard Beyer, who will lose his property in New London.

The Supreme Court destroyed far more. It destroyed the American way of life, the American dream of home ownership and the concept that one's property is their own and protected from those who want it for their own greedy purposes.

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor voted against the court's appalling ruling and wrote the dissent.

"Today the Court abandons this long-held, basic limitation on government power," Justice O'Connor wrote. "Under the banner of economic development, all private property is now vulnerable to being taken and transferred to another private owner."

Up until now, we have had to depend on the court to stop the ever-increasing encroachment by the government into our lives. The courts have been the only path left to stop the Bush administration's assault on freedom and the Constitution.

No more. The last hope for America died when the court sided with land speculators and fatcats who already control all the other branches of local, state and federal governments with their checkbooks and political action committees.

At one time, we who called America home considered it the home of the brave and the land of the free.

No more. We ceased being the home of the brave on September 11, 2001, when a band of thugs hijacked airliners and crashed them into the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon. Our president, seizing on the politics of the moment, used fear to turn this nation into a police state.

On Thursday, five justices of the U.S. Supreme Court destroyed the land of the free. If people cannot own property without living in fear that the government can take it and turn it over to the fatcats who own our elected officials, then we are no longer free.

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose," songwriter Kris Kristofferson wrote in his song, Me and Bobby McGee.

There's nothing left to lose. The government and the courts have taken it all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth....could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trail of a thousand years....If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be it's author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by sucide.

Abraham Lincoln, 1838

What does the billboard say, come and play, come and play, forget about the movemnet. Rage Agaiint the Machine- Freedom.

We did it to ourselves. Freedom uncared for destroys itself. I think it was said once that if one person is not free, none of us are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes we did do it to ourselves, "freedom uncared for destroys itself", we are destroying our freedoms ourselves.

camerata · July 17, 2005

Seapa strongly denounces the executive decree which will give the prime minister the power to censor news, intercept telephone conversations and detain people without charge.

... otherwise known as the restriction of the right of habeas corpus, one of the foundations of any democratic society. A dangerous road to go down.

haha · July 17, 2005

EYE FOR AN EYE, TOOTH FOR A TOOTH???? What is this, the Capulets and Montigues??? If we need to keep in ancient grudges and mutinies that never have a happy ending, why don't we stick to the local ancient remedes.
What the early/pre Thai states used to do in time of conflict for the sake of Unity was send off their daughters or young sisters for marriage with the leader of the other state. This ultimately created family bonds / loyalty that are much harder to sabatage even between the lines of religion. This is highly effective for achieving peace if you ask me.

So what does that entail for the current situation??? Whoever get's Thaksin's daughter, particularly the one still in Uni is certainly a lucky man and ought to be commited to making offspring instead of bombs.

The older daughter not so bad either. How old is she now? Mid twenties??? Heck, even his younger sister, Yingluck, well, I'd do er (inferring a business transaction for you worried sensors )

And what would Mr. T get in return aside from a peaceful tie? Well I'm sure they can send four wives for Ok Awk, whatever that boy's name is. That should settle the score.

Harmony, love, and babies.

That's the best imediate peaceful solution I can think of.

Where's my medal darn it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to feed my own ego or anything but,

Most of the other replies in this thread are pragmatic attempts to fulfill the naturalistic fallacy!!! No one seems to be contributing anything real accept cries and attacks on Thaksin and the Muslims. The 'Muslims' in question aren't any more terrorists than they are victims. If you know anything about the history of the region, this conflict on the Malay peninsula isn't that just happened the past few years, but is rooted as old as Middle Eastern conflicts, if not older...Ofcourse, the various conflicts over thousands of years have been in different forms, reasons, but are certainly not religous cultural conflicts solely, i.e. from Hinduism to Islam and Budhism and the current religous/ethnic struggles between the remaining two.

If you look from recent (last 2000 years) historical perspectives, many peoples have realized the strategic potential of the Malay Peninsula everywhere from Funan's (Pre Khmer) expansion/migration through towards the Indo China heartlands to Persian (Pre Islam) explorers searching for shorter sea/land routes towards China. You might be surprised the historical significance of Nakhon Sri Thamarat as a central port diverse of various ethnic peoples around a thousand years ago.(Regarding the Persians, I have read/studied less about than my knowledge of Funan but I'm sure some history buffs here could back up the exact purpose/expansions of the Persian powers in the region and their purposes over the past 2000 years) all the way up to the age of colonialism and the British control of the peninsula and the establishment of Singapore as a major port. These such events crushed Thai (and even smaller Burmese) historical claims over many years of warfare and vessel type rulership throughout the peninsula.

The reason why Thailand clings on so much to these three provinces is no suprise. The kingdom lost enough face succeeding the states of Kedar, Penang, among other peninsular states/provinces (anyone interested in specifics/years/or other pragmatics only needs 5 minutes of research) to Colonial Britain, which eventually had to give autonomy to the people anyway...

No violence is justified and each side has sufficient events in history to justify their actions no matter what angle you look at it from--- ultimately it comes down to suppression and the soverign right of lands and people. Like I said in my initial post, any violence that continues is on the same basis of the Capulet and Montague fued, which is just a cycle of violence, no one really able to tackle what the current issue is and what exactly is it either side wants.

Those who make comments like 'Crush those terrorists! Dirty Muslims' along these lines should take a stroll out of your world of CNN/BBC and Nescafe, you might learn something authentic. Before you get all emotional with your response, try reading and understanding Allegory of the Cave from Plato's republic first.

Ok, waiting for an intelligent/reflective post now...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it takes two parties to talk.

those people down there whoever they are are not willing to talk. they just go around murdering people.

in this scenario, you have no choice but to defend yourself.

and you need to do this with whatever means you have available to you. this includes phone taps, etc.

this murdering has to stop before any sincere negotiations can be discussed.

capt_canada42 · July 17, 2005

I really fail to understand what sort of impact this law will have on the troubled south...after all, the police hardly have a reputation for respecting peoples rights down there as it is.
If the PM in all his wisdom has not been able to come to any agreements in the last 4 years, how is this "breach on civil rights" going to change anything.

Is this the PM's power grab? I recall last time the government declaired a state of emergancy, students were being shot in the streets.

I feel sorry for Thailand, that they vote (get paid) blindly, and then are forced to put up with a corrupt PM as a result.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder why thailand doesn`t send all the muslim population back to malasia where they belong.They can`t get allong with any race of people not even there own race so why should we put up with them

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I caes you don't know your history of this country the muslim people were Muslim Kingdoms in the old days before being conquered by the Thai's

razino · July 17, 2005

emmm...City For Peace...what a waste...

http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=...ECTION=201.html

find the culprits...

greenwanderer108 · July 17, 2005

And if the violence does erupt in Bangkok, and the target happens to be BTS or MRT, I wouldn't start pointing fingers at anyone just yet. We must be sensible.

You might have forgotten that the PM isn't exactly the biggest supporter of Hopewell, BTS, MRT, or any mass transit plans, as he advocates the continued expansion of expressway business...another one of the old highway beaorocrats with lots to lose if the automobile and fuel is devalued.

Don't forget he also has the higher degree(s) in Criminal Psychology if I'm not mistaken. Meaning, he definately has the master-mind, not to mention the current political flow in such an 'emergency scare' to pull off such an attack.

But of course he wouldn't do such a thing. He's an educated man, not a barbarian

mogoso · July 17, 2005

"Thai Thaksin Says Emergency Act Needed to End Southern Unrest"
=====================================================

Reminds me: You can fool some of the People some of the time, but you can not fool ALL of the People ALL of the time . . . . . .

Perhaps this is a GOOD development, because if the general populace of Thailand (Isan & all the rest of the country-side dwellers inclu.) still can not figure out that thier P.M. is the BIGGEST threat to this otherwise wonderful country, then they deserve what they're about to receive . . . . . . .

Mao-Tse-Thaksin, hey ? ? ? Somehow's this has got the ring of truth to it, I reckon !

'C'mon people, WAKE UP and smell the roses ! ! !

When you see evil, have the guts to call it by it's real name: EVIL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what the Islamic murderers do isn't evil?

It's all well and good to sit on your ivory throne casting aspersions at a goverment thats at a loss for a solution, thats groping to find a way to stop this. Even using ways I don't necessarily agree with, but pay a little lip service to the cowardly pigs that Islam produces, and carries out acts of evil.

The EVIL created, funded, and backed by an assinine tribal sect that mutated into a grotesque major religion, that wouldn't allow your critiques under penalty of death.

There isn't a solution that doesn't cost lives, and we are just at the beginning of what Islam has in store for us worldwide. And no it's not about Isreal, its not about the US its about our freedoms, and how Islam cannot abide with us having them.

Its hard to suffer the many myoptic morons that refuse to lay the blame where it should be put, at the feet of Islam

greenwanderer108 · July 17, 2005

I really fail to understand what sort of impact this law will have on the troubled south...after all, the police hardly have a reputation for respecting peoples rights down there as it is.
If the PM in all his wisdom has not been able to come to any agreements in the last 4 years, how is this "breach on civil rights" going to change anything.

Is this the PM's power grab? I recall last time the government declaired a state of emergancy, students were being shot in the streets.

I feel sorry for Thailand, that they vote (get paid) blindly, and then are forced to put up with a corrupt PM as a result.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wonder why thailand doesn`t send all the muslim population back to malasia where they belong.They can`t get allong with any race of people not even there own race so why should we put up with them

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I caes you don't know your history of this country the muslim people were Muslim Kingdoms in the old days before being conquered by the Thai's

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and before they were Muslim, they were Hindu (i.e. Persian expansions) and before they were Hindu, I'm sure the chain, cycle goes on long before anyone was writing it down. Hence, any arguments based on religous/ethnic rights have no validity from a true historical perspective.

dleut · July 17, 2005

Unfortunatly some people do not beleive in hard measures to contain certain things. But if things are not stopped as sharply as they start they just escalate. 30 years ago the world population was only 15% Muslim and now it is beleived to be 40%. Although some true followers of the Kuran are fine people these fundermentalist just inspire fear and should be stopped at all costs. If they are not beleive me Thailand will suffer and they will spread.

So no matter what powers the goverment needs to inforce, if it will stop the spread of fear and terrorism then we should help them not hinder them.

womble · July 17, 2005

If this gets published in the royal gazette, and the senate are unable to get enough singnitures to debate this in parliament, then there are very dark days ahead.

Quite simply expect another Coup at some time or other. With the way the economy is going, this is Meow's last chance to hold onto power, if it gets through, he will use it to stop media publishing reports which he seems may harm his popularity, whether it is connected to the south or not. Blood will be spilt before he is toppled as leader.

It's so sad that most of the uneducated public are blind, and fall for his populist policies, and it's even sader that the educated just stand by and shrug their shoulders.

Thailand has only been a Democracy since 1997, it is certainly no Democracy now, and moving quickly towards extreme right. The failing economy could be a blessing in disguise, as this will ultimatley be what leads to meow's downfall.

The_Other_Mac · July 17, 2005

Those who make comments like 'Crush those terrorists! Dirty Muslims' along these lines should take a stroll out of your world of CNN/BBC and Nescafe, you might learn something authentic. Before you get all emotional with your response, try reading and understanding Allegory of the Cave from Plato's republic first.

Ok, waiting for an intelligent/reflective post now...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aha, its all them bloody Brits fault

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

- You're either with us or you're with the terrorists.

- Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Greenwanderer, I hope you're patient. The intelligent/reflective people are quiet on this subject.

camerata · July 17, 2005

Some Pondoks (Islamic schools) prey upon poor and uneducated kids (ripe for nurturing hatred) are the nucleus of the problem. They start by preaching hatred and alienation to innocent kids and later (combined with localised or 'formed' socio economic conditions) eventually produce a few who apparently believe murdering innocent people and becoming a so-called "martyr" is far preferrable to the dismal life alternatives presented, formed and nurtured. Similar to programming a cult member. Sick sick sick

Allow me to add a bit more to this. Pattani was originally an independent Malay kingom. Since its annexation by Thailand in 1902, the mostly Muslim and Malay-speaking locals have experienced a fair bit of discrimination and neglect by the central government.

For many years the army and the police have been fighting over lucrative rackets in the South such as oil smuggling, prostitution and gambling, with each side embarrassing the other by burning down schools, stealing weapons, etc, and blaming it all on separatists. Hence Thaksin's statement at the beginning of the current crisis that it wasn't caused by separatists. As an ex-police officer, he knew very well what had been going on in the past.

But he didn't know the wider picture - that for years the Saudis and others have been funding Thai Muslim clerics to study at overseas madrassas (religious schools) where their minds are poisoned with Wahhabi fundamentalist extremism. These clerics then come home and teach their religious hatred combined with separatism to the gullible kids studying at the local ponoh schools.

The end result is a pretty complicated picture with no single, cohesive group responsible, deep distrust of the authorities, and the government doesn't know "who is behind it." Of course they don't. The government is always looking for the proverbial "third hand" or "fifth column" or "influential person" - some group that can easily be identified.

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