Economic Growth In S.thailand

[thaibebop]

I posted an idea that if the violence in the south of Thailand would calm down just enough and long enough to introduce economic groth that in the long run this would solve a lot of problems. However, I have no clue what kind of programs should be introduced or what economic or educational(as I think the two are linked) programs would be best for the south. So, I am looking for some ideas from people who know more than me on the southern side of Thailand, which isn't a whole lot.

Edited July 18, 2005 by thaibebop

[greenwanderer108]

This is a hard one to answer as many of the current issues are directly and indirectly related/rooted from economic and education (lack of) interference/contribution from the central government. As long as the current central administration sponsers any economic development/programs (as it has tried to do to some extent the past few years via OTOP), there always seems to be a minority sample group that yearns for autonomy in local economy, particularly reeping the advantages. Economics isn't as vital as education though.

From what I understand, these seperatists are preaching on the basis of suppression by the central government over the past century regarding the forcing of mandatory Thai education, language, and religion on these three provicnes in such 'Thai washing' campaigns, most noteably during the Piboon Sonkram PM rule/dictarship, and now recently with a PM of similar standpoints.

It seems impossible to please everyone, and I've also heard that it is not the majority population of these three provinces who have expressed such irritation with government suppression, though the results were pretty clear in this year's elections on the lack of support for TRT. I don't think Thaksin's Cash and Gung Ho economic policies will prove effective...More fair representation of the Muslim population in the parliment could benefit the situation.

If the Central government allows fair sponsorship of both Islamic and Thai education, perhaps the dire need for autonomy would become obsolete.

It will be easier to access the situation once the storm has passed. As of now, it's too cloudy with anarchy to make any constructive progress.

[sonnyJ]

I choose to copy my pre-educational reply here too.

Maybe it will grove something fruitful.

(AND BEFORE I THINK SOME BETTER..)HEHEE

Let's state and announce it again, this is not a crusade (what ever Bush says).

The problem is not about religion/s.

We can look back to history and see during 400 years at least, continuous and expanding supression of the muslim regions in Thailand. I would like to see southern states having more autonomy, yes. This is completely another matter though.

I say this is not independece fight. This is terrorists, who happen to be muslims, and in mood for jihad. Escalating situation in the world wide scope. And can be on my opinion blamed mainly of G.W.Bush jr. policies and actions as a world police. Few words from him can make world go crazy. Most blame to him. Sure there is and has been illegal activitives happening on thai/malay border always. So what. Has very little to do with this.

The solution? Cannot give you any answers directly. This is mainly about the worlds happenings. Afghanistan, Iraq, what next. This inspires extremists (in this case muslims) around the world. There have been active, extremists groups for decades, now it is their prime time.

Negotiation is very difficult. We are living a new era. I don't think in Thailand there is much to negotiate about. Still I stress that as THE BEST OPTION. But this is not freedom fighters. Most local southern muslims are completely not supporting them.

Arrest the hardline religious teachers would be the best alternative. Hope this would be the end of this crisis.

Old era. Muslim states as super power of the world in early middle ages when The whole Europe was in, how should I put it, in very undeveloped state (barbarians). Muslim states of Persians and Ottomans were the world super power. (I disregard China as it's not really relevant). After European Renessance these powers fell, cos they didn't observe European happenings/rapid developement in anyway... That's a historical reason for lot of hatred. But ofcourse justifies it non what so ever... What I'm saying it's a global problem. Dilemma. I have no solutions for...

I can say that violence creates violence. When will the world leaders get smarter than that. Maybe it's all about face after all, globaly too?

Hoping for the best. Does the leaders listen some humanistis/sociolocist guys trying to explaing them what's going on? I think very few. And I see even less..

Cheers

[sonnyJ]

Yes.

1. Education.

2. Equality among other Thai provinces.

So

3. Jobs.

I rest my case.

P.S. This all means more money!!!

[thaibebop]

With education I know of many programs that will move a person from economicly depressed area to a better one to go to school. Would taking students from the south to go to school in the north be helpful? The southern areas are cheaper than near Bangkok, right? So, what if Thai companies were given a tax break to develop plants or office qaurters in the south, would that bring growth?

[haha]

as long as the people who are murdering people down there continue doing so, how can you implement the steps you suggested?

you can't.

the first step is to stop these murderers. find out who they are, where they are, and punish them for the 800 murders that they have already committed.

then, you can plan for the future.

otherwise, anything you try to built, they will destroy. do you remember the schools that they burned down?

[The_Other_Mac]

I've been given the impression that a large proportion of the rubber tree plantations belong to Central Thais, with locals providing the labour. Anyone else heard anything to corroborate this, or better yet, some actual figures? Rubber is still a very profitable crop once matured.

I've also heard that many rubber plantations are now up for sale, at "bargain" prices. (Ok, I heard 10-15k a rai for working plantations.) Of course, no one would want to buy it. Unless they lived there and were on the side of the terrorists. I'm suggesting that it might be a deliberate land-grab, and that some kind of intervention to see that any distribution of "for sale" land is spread evenly over the local population instead of enriching only the cronies of the terrorists, might help all sides. I have no idea how such intervention could be achieved.

Please note that this post contains NO facts whatsoever, and is pure speculation.

[meom]

Maybe Taxin could give them a casino license once it's legalised.

A local brewery would also be beneficial.

[haha]

part of the future is solar power, and super conductivity. in another string, I mentioned this.

I think thailand with all this natural resource of sunlight would benefit from research into solar power.

right now, there are some people in the EU who are doing research into the improvement of solar power technology. I'm sure they would be delighted to have partners in this research in other countries like thailand.

I heard there are people here in thailand who are already involved with solar power. but are they as advanced as those people in EU?

why don't you try to contact them to compare notes?

http://www.solonmover.com/english/projekte/lproj.php

http://www.solarbuzz.com/News/NewsEUPR214.htm

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2004Dec/...41217028313.htm

http://www.scottevest.com

/http://www.alpinesurvival.com/system4.htm

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18424786.000

http://www.solardepot.com/c_system_examples.htm

http://www.odysen.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=116

maybe you can set up some deals with some of these people to make their products for them.

you have the man power. all you need to do is ask. it doesn't cost anything to ask.

you have the internet as a way to communicate with them.

there are many people in the south of thailand. why doesn't someone down there not try to talk to them?

do they need someone else to help them ask?

[thaibebop]

as long as the people who are murdering people down there continue doing so, how can you implement the steps you suggested?

you can't.

the first step is to stop these murderers.  find out who they are, where they are, and punish them for the 800 murders that they have already committed.

then, you can plan for the future.

otherwise, anything you try to built, they will destroy.  do you remember the schools that they burned down?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I my first post I asked for ideas of reform that could be used after the violence had been dealt with or at least calmed down enough, like when schools stopped being burned.

You posting about solar power, I wonder, do you think solar collecting stations could bring in some much need growth if they were place with in these troubled provionvces?

[haha]

some more links....

http://www.alpinesurvival.com/1-ENRPAK200.htm

http://www.alpinesurvival.com/system3.htm

http://superconductors.org/INdex.htm

http://www.futureenergies.com/print.php?sid=237

http://www.chinadepot.com/psps.html

hope this info helps...

[haha]

as long as the people who are murdering people down there continue doing so, how can you implement the steps you suggested?

you can't.

the first step is to stop these murderers.  find out who they are, where they are, and punish them for the 800 murders that they have already committed.

then, you can plan for the future.

otherwise, anything you try to built, they will destroy.  do you remember the schools that they burned down?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I my first post I asked for ideas of reform that could be used after the violence had been dealt with or at least calmed down enough, like when schools stopped being burned.

You posting about solar power, I wonder, do you think solar collecting stations could bring in some much need growth if they were place with in these troubled provionvces?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the world is full of other people who would like to help others.

the key is to ask. nobody can read minds.

with the internet, you have this ability to ask all you want. maybe some people won't reply. you just need to keep trying.

with the internet, you have unlimited possibilities. solar energy is just one of them.

like I said, thailand has the manpower. and they are probably willing to work for a lot less than many other countries. with globalization, you have access to the world.

go look for a niche. that is what india did, and look at them now.

in regards to solar power, these inventors in the EU said they could produce the new flexible solar panels for about 1 dollar a watt. with the low labor costs here in thailand, don't you think you could get the cost even lower?

you won't know until you ask.

...on commercial size systems, I would ask the people who build them. get their feedback.

http://www.solonmover.com/english/projekte/lproj.php

http://www.solardepot.com/c_system_examples.htm

http://www.alpinesurvival.com/system3.htm

http://www.scottevest.com/

each website is a potential customer, a potential partner. ...talk to them to find out if they could be.

there must be over a million people in the south of thailand. form a committee to represent that area, and then, roam the internet to find business partners.

note: I am just a simple person with humble desires. so, I cannot profess to know all the answers to your questions. I can only offer what I know. but in my heart, I wish people the best in their endeavors as long as they are honorable.

[sonnyJ]

as long as the people who are murdering people down there continue doing so, how can you implement the steps you suggested?

you can't.

the first step is to stop these murderers.  find out who they are, where they are, and punish them for the 800 murders that they have already committed.

then, you can plan for the future.

otherwise, anything you try to built, they will destroy.  do you remember the schools that they burned down?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I my first post I asked for ideas of reform that could be used after the violence had been dealt with or at least calmed down enough, like when schools stopped being burned.

You posting about solar power, I wonder, do you think solar collecting stations could bring in some much need growth if they were place with in these troubled provionvces?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the world is full of other people who would like to help others.

the key is to ask. nobody can read minds.

with the internet, you have this ability to ask all you want. maybe some people won't reply. you just need to keep trying.

with the internet, you have unlimited possibilities. solar energy is just one of them.

like I said, thailand has the manpower. and they are probably willing to work for a lot less than many other countries. with globalization, you have access to the world.

go look for a niche. that is what india did, and look at them now.

in regards to solar power, these inventors in the EU said they could produce the new flexible solar panels for about 1 dollar a watt. with the low labor costs here in thailand, don't you think you could get the cost even lower?

you won't know until you ask.

...on commercial size systems, I would ask the people who build them. get their feedback.

http://www.solonmover.com/english/projekte/lproj.php

http://www.solardepot.com/c_system_examples.htm

http://www.alpinesurvival.com/system3.htm

http://www.scottevest.com/

each website is a potential customer, a potential partner. ...talk to them to find out if they could be.

there must be over a million people in the south of thailand. form a committee to represent that area, and then, roam the internet to find business partners.

note: I am just a simple person with humble desires. so, I cannot profess to know all the answers to your questions. I can only offer what I know. but in my heart, I wish people the best in their endeavors as long as they are honorable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's great if it is feasible soon.

Going to the colonial era...1850..

British stopped the sucicide attacks simply burying the attackers in pig skins. Maybe wouldn't work anymore. How could you recognice the pieces? But pigs are an effective weapon against muslims.....hhhhhhhhhmm. It's true, body touches a pig, no paradise anymore....

Edited July 18, 2005 by sonnyJ

[sonnyJ]

I'm pro peace in all feasible means. You can see on my recent posts on the topic.

All I wish is peace.

[sabaijai]

From what I understand, these seperatists are preaching on the basis of suppression by the central government over the past century regarding the forcing of mandatory Thai education, language, and religion on these three provicnes in such 'Thai washing' campaigns, most noteably during the Piboon Sonkram PM rule/dictarship, and now recently with a PM of similar standpoints.

It seems impossible to please everyone, and I've also heard that it is not the majority population of these three provinces who have expressed such irritation with government suppression, though the results were pretty clear in this year's elections on the lack of support for TRT. I don't think Thaksin's Cash and Gung Ho economic policies will prove effective...More fair representation of the Muslim population in the parliment could benefit the situation.

I think you've hit the core of the problem. After all the 'southern problem' has been with us since the Barisan National Pember-Basan Pattani (BNPP, later changed to the Pattani United Liberation Front/PULO in 1965) was formed in 1959 in the middle of the 1948-60 'state of emergency' declared by the Thai military dictatorship.

There was continual violence in Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat and Songkhla throughout the late 60s and 70s, into the 80s - at a rate roughly comparable to what we see now, only not as covered in the news then (the 'war on terrorism' hadn't yet made it as newsworthy in Thailand), until Prem's reign in the 80s, which brought rapprochement with both the communist and muslim nationalist armed insurgencies in the south. Later administrations built upon this until by the time of Chuan Leekpai, things had reached an all-time calm.

When the TRT came into power, they undid pretty much everything that had been done to keep a lid on southern violence since the early 80s. Unfortunately the Thai government's heavy-handed responses to the 40-year-old Muslim nationalist movement – especially the 2004 massacre of a 108 machete-armed youths in a Pattani mosque and the suffocation deaths of 78 during brutal arrests in Narathiwat that same year – seem destined to provoke further trouble.

Most thinking Thais I know say that the southern cauldron will calm down only if/when TRT steps down from power or is dissolved.

I also think that if Thailand's provinces were permitted to elect their own governors - a right only residents of Bangkok Mahanakhon currently enjoy - it would go a long way towards economic and political development in the south, northeast and north.

[WhiteShiva]

as long as the people who are murdering people down there continue doing so, how can you implement the steps you suggested?

you can't.

the first step is to stop these murderers.  find out who they are, where they are, and punish them for the 800 murders that they have already committed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And that would of course include the soldiers and police that have been responsible for extrajudiciary killings, tourture, kidnappings and disappearance of muslims....?

What happened to the army guy in change of the Tak Bai incident - moved to another position. No jail, no dishounerable discharge - nah, just moved. Imagine what message that sends to the people in the south. Try to imagine if it was your own father, brother or son who had been arrested, killed while in custody, and the guy responsible was simply transferred to another position. I know it would have pi$$ed me off something royally, and I am a fairly laid-back kindof a guy.

Unless the people in the south start seeing some justice and equality, things will not change. Unfortunately, the present system does not seem interested or capable of bringing about the neccessary changes.

[TokyoT]

I also think that if Thailand's provinces were permitted to elect their own governors - a right only residents of Bangkok Mahanakhon currently enjoy - it would go a long way towards economic and political development in the south, northeast and north.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this actually gets to the heart of the matter. Allowing the locals to have more control over local matters only makes sense.

But this also becomes matter a little more complicated than simply allowing the locals to vote for their own governors as how government funds are to be distributed also comes into play. So while this matter is actually more complicated than it appears it is still something that is worth pursuing.

[TokyoT]

This is a hard one to answer as many of the current issues are directly and indirectly related/rooted from economic and education (lack of) interference/contribution from the central government. As long as the current central administration sponsers any economic development/programs (as it has tried to do to some extent the past few years via OTOP), there always seems to be a minority sample group that yearns for autonomy in local economy, particularly reeping the advantages. Economics isn't as vital as education though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Part of the problem is the centralization of control in Thai government. This relates to education as well as economics as the central government essentially holds all the main control in these areas. IMHO the only reason the Thai government has been able to remain as stable as it has (not that long either) with the current government system is the general “oneness” of the Thai population. There is not a lot of disparity (mostly Buddhist, and mostly Thai) in the population, and the disparity that does exist (Lao, Khmer, etc heritage) seem to be fairly content (or unwilling to rock the boat) with the lot they are allowed in Thailand. The one group that is not currently content with the lot they are allowed in Thailand are the Muslims in the South.

Greatly centralized controls generally are not flexible enough to deal with localized issues.

It seems impossible to please everyone, and I've also heard that it is not the majority population of these three provinces who have expressed such irritation with government suppression, though the results were pretty clear in this year's elections on the lack of support for TRT. I don't think Thaksin's Cash and Gung Ho economic policies will prove effective...More fair representation of the Muslim population in the parliment could benefit the situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is fair representation in parliament? Those in the south were free to vote for their representatives in the central government, and as you point out they did show with their votes they do not support the TRT. But the Muslims in the South are a vast minority in the country as a whole. So even getting Muslim representation in the central government to match with their share of the entire Thai population would not result in any significant gains for them.

And this is part of the reason I think the real problem still lies with the basic arrangement of the current Thai political system – too centralized and unable to address the basic needs of a diversified society.

If the Central government allows fair sponsorship of both Islamic and Thai education, perhaps the dire need for autonomy would become obsolete.

It will be easier to access the situation once the storm has passed. As of now, it's too cloudy with anarchy to make any constructive progress.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair sponsorship of Thai and Islamic education – setting aside my own personal feelling in regard to the need to separate religion from education - Fair sponsorship by the Thai central government will be very difficult to accomplish at this stage. It would be hard to convince people that central government funds should be used to support Islamic education systems (especially in todays world and how many non-Muslims view Islamic education systems as “terror camps”).

Again a problem that becomes all that much more difficult to resolve due to the centralized government/funding in the current Thai political system.

It will be easier to access the situation once the storm has passed. As of now, it's too cloudy with anarchy to make any constructive progress.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IMHO the “storm” will not pass. It will only ebb and flow, and continue to build until steps are taken to release the pressure. This does indeed make the situation that much more difficult to resolve as the results of actions taken to help with the current situation may be misread.

Edited August 4, 2005 by TokyoT