Thailand Geographical Subdivisions

[scorpio1945]

To an American used to cities counties and states is their any similar logic to Thai sub divisions. When I try to talk to my fiancee about what I am seeing on a map, it is like we are talking two different languages. She and I can not relate. I had always assumed that A. Muang was the equivalent of saying the CITY of Chiang Rai of Chiang Rai Provence. After a lengthy discussion she just told me that the so called A. Muang goes all the way to Mae Chan and covers a huge area and includes many towns/cities/ villages I thought were different. What got this discussion going was I was looking at a google map and saw an bounded area called Meng Rai. Inside this area was dots for Playa Mengrai and another one for Meng Rai and I asked her what the bigger area was called and the dots?. What followed was a 30 minute discussion that almost caused a fight. Is this a Tambon, or what I would equate to a county? Does Baan have a logic to it.

Is there any help for a map guy trying to talk to a non map thai? How would I ask someone where Tambon (if that is what it is)Mengrai was versus the city/village/Baan (?) of Mengrai. What do they call what I thought was the city of Chiang Rai versus the outlying areas.

I still remember the first time this system? confused me was when I insisted to her that you could take a boat from Chiang Mai to Chiang Rai that I read in a brochure. It took me a month before I understood it was talking the provinces not the cities.

[jubby]

Muang is interesting. I'm not exactly sure. I think it came from fortress or something , I could have dreamed this up).

I always associated it with the city centre area for some reason.

The rest is easier. this is how I understand it, but some of it will be wrong.

look at your postal address.

you'll have moo - being the village, eg. 41 moo 4, house 41 (41st registered House) in the Village 4.

Ban 'blah blah blah' beiing the Village name.

T-mao pao or T-meng rai is the sub-district I think. Tambon.

A-Phayamengrai - Amphur - district.

Chiangwat Chiang Rai is what I'd refer to as the province or county.

Anyway, if I'm wrong we'll both learn something

Edited September 25, 2010 by jubby

[villagefarang]

I'm not sure you will have the patience to wade through this blog but with a little creative search you will find more than you ever wanted to know about Changwat, Amphoe, Tombon in this blog of the same name.

[jubby]

But if you don't have the patience then maybe VF will be back and actually answer the question directly; clearly and concisely . or maybe not

[sceadugenga]

3. Minor District Office (King Amphoe) is a government office at district level under Provincial Administration headed by a minor district chief officer (Huana King Amphoe). There are 81 minor districts in Thailand at present The objectives to establish minor district office is to render services thoroughly to the people in remote areas which is not ready to establish as district office. It is headed by a minor district chief officer. Its main functions are almost the same as those of the District Administration Office except registration and firearm works.

4. Subdistrict (Tambon) is a local administration unit under the supervision of a district or minor district office. The elected head of a subdistrict is called Subdistrict Headman or Kamnan. As provided by the Local Administrative Act 1914 (B.E. 2457), a subdistrict consists of a cluster of more than 8 villages. It is overseen by a subdistrict headman, together with "subdistrict medical practitioner", and "assistant subdistrict headman".

5. Village (Muban) is the smallest local administrative unit within a subdistrict. The elected head of each village is called Village Headman or Pu Yai Ban. According to the Local Administrative Act 1914 (B.E. 2457), a village is overseen by a village headman with two assistants, as an Assistant Village Headmen for Government Affairs and an Assistant Village Headmen for Security Affairs in some villages. A village may be have a Village Committee as an advisory body of a village. The Committee is composed of elected members from all walks of life within the village.

http://www.dopa.go.th/English/layout/chapter2.htm

Edited September 25, 2010 by sceadugenga

[Joel Barlow]

OK, and so, what's a tatsabaan?

better to write "ging amphoe", no?

[jubby]

OK, and so, what's a tatsabaan?

better to write "ging amphoe", no?

Its not a 'School' then

And whats a muang ; Joel should know this. he seems quite knowledgeable and well read

[Joel Barlow]

a muang is a social/political unit - a grouping of (semi-)united people.

Muang Thai.

Muang ChiangRai.

Amphoe Muang is the central, capitol area of a province,

not the city itself

(which is why government can say ChiangRai or ChiangMai

have the small populations quoted - ChiangRai city doesn't include Ban Du

or even Den Ha...

ChiangMai doesn't include HangDong etc...

actually I'm not at all sure why they do that -

maybe to keep help avoid providing adaquate infrastructure for the

actual number of people using it!)

Now, does anyone want to hear about a Monton? ChiangRai used to be in a Mon-ton,

100 years ago...

the other day I had to take my wife to Tetsabaan Ban Du to finally fully change her

personal registration from Amphoe MaeFaLuang, so that she can get a non-temporary driver license of more utility and benefit to her...

then we had to go to the MaeFahLuang amphoe office to cancel the old...

very important, she said...

OK, I'll stop it with the "emoticons" now

[jubby]

a muang is a social/political unit - a grouping of (semi-)united people.

Muang Thai.

Muang ChiangRai.

Amphoe Muang is the central, capitol area of a province,

not the city itself

(which is why government can say ChiangRai or ChiangMai

have the small populations quoted - ChiangRai city doesn't include Ban Du

or even Den Ha...

ChiangMai doesn't include HangDong etc...

actually I'm not at all sure why they do that -

maybe to keep help avoid providing adaquate infrastructure for the

actual number of people using it!)

Now, does anyone want to hear about a Monton? ChiangRai used to be in a Mon-ton,

100 years ago...

the other day I had to take my wife to Tetsabaan Ban Du to finally fully change her

personal registration from Amphoe MaeFaLuang, so that she can get a non-temporary driver license of more utility and benefit to her...

then we had to go to the MaeFahLuang amphoe office to cancel the old...

very important, she said...

OK, I'll stop it with the "emoticons" now

Thanks Joel. I knew you could do it

Yeah, I'm interested in what a monton is/was.

Don't worry about the emotions too much, most of us have em.

I suspect I'll have lots of em when I get my invite to Limbo's Elite Photography Club

[Thaddeus]

Can a mod change the thread title to 'geographical'.... this topic doesn't have anything to do with geology, and I was quite looking forward to a good geological debate, disappointed now.

[kandahar]

Can a mod change the thread title to 'geographical'.... this topic doesn't have anything to do with geology, and I was quite looking forward to a good geological debate, disappointed now.

My sediments exactly!

[Joel Barlow]

geologically, we're part of a massif -

and a monton

was a massive kind of ging amphoe -

a preparative political unit

where there weren't many people

(at least not Thai speaking ones).

in the 19th century, as Siam tried to re-imagine itself

to keep up with the firmer political divisions of Europe

following advances in map-making after 1500,

and unification of many city-states

(is anyone still awake?),

well, anyway, there was lots of fighting -

mostly with Burmese, but also internicine,

with Jeen Haw and who knows, maybe some Lao...

lots died, epidemic disease became rampant, tigers roamed ancient city streets,

and the powers of Bangkok had limited resources to try to control

what was a huge, wild area

once divided into various muang(nah - no-one could possibly still be reading)

which few were interested to be delegated off to try to control

and so the idea of a monton amalgamation of lesser units was devised

and I figure I've done my duty for the day

(whoops, said I wouldn't do that. must be the silly music that just came on,

some chick singing about trouble being a friend of mine, yeah, trouble is a friend of mine)

[scorpio1945]

Can a mod change the thread title to 'geographical'.... this topic doesn't have anything to do with geology, and I was quite looking forward to a good geological debate, disappointed now.

Whoops! Too quick to click first entry in my spell checker. You would think an Oil and Gas production orientated engineer would get that right. Can I blame my talkative lady?

Thanks all. Still confused but much less so.

My lady says that Tambon Robwiang is pretty much what I would call the city of Chiang Rai. Sound about right?

VF, etc. - would the dot named mengrai on the google map out your way be described as Moobaan Mengrai in Tambon Mengrai? Is Playamengrai an Ampur Whoops again. I see Jubby already answered the last one.

Edited September 26, 2010 by scorpio1945

[jubby]

Can a mod change the thread title to 'geographical'.... this topic doesn't have anything to do with geology, and I was quite looking forward to a good geological debate, disappointed now.

Whoops! Too quick to click first entry in my spell checker. You would think an Oil and Gas production orientated engineer would get that right. Can I blame my talkative lady?

Thanks all. Still confused but much less so.

My lady says that Tambon Robwiang is pretty much what I would call the city of Chiang Rai. Sound about right?

VF, etc. - would the dot named mengrai on the google map out your way be described as Moobaan Mengrai in Tambon Mengrai? Is Playamengrai an Ampur

Payamengrai is indeed an Ampur. I also know theres a Tambon called mengrai. Mooban mengrai !? I haven't seen one.

your in both mine & VF's territorial Limits though. Are you planning a road trip ?

[scorpio1945]

Can a mod change the thread title to 'geographical'.... this topic doesn't have anything to do with geology, and I was quite looking forward to a good geological debate, disappointed now.

Whoops! Too quick to click first entry in my spell checker. You would think an Oil and Gas production orientated engineer would get that right. Can I blame my talkative lady?

Thanks all. Still confused but much less so.

My lady says that Tambon Robwiang is pretty much what I would call the city of Chiang Rai. Sound about right?

VF, etc. - would the dot named mengrai on the google map out your way be described as Moobaan Mengrai in Tambon Mengrai? Is Playamengrai an Ampur

Payamengrai is indeed an Ampur. I also know theres a Tambon called mengrai. Mooban mengrai !? I haven't seen one.

your in both mine & VF's territorial Limits though. Are you planning a road trip ?

Looking at going to Pu che fa (sp?) sometime. Seeing what the different ways to go were. Are you on the way?

[Joel Barlow]

Were you to follow the traffic signs, you'd go south to PrayaMengrai,

east a bit, through some low mountains and then back north...

but PuChiFah is northeast from amphoe muang

(oh, and by the by, you can spell it anyway you like - Thais certainly do;

I love the sign to Mea Sai)

and if you get a good map you'll easily find a better, also interesting,

way to go.

Look to turn east at Tha Khao Puak (not far north of Ban Du).

Edited September 26, 2010 by Joel Barlow

[villagefarang]

Looking at going to Pu che fa (sp?) sometime. Seeing what the different ways to go were. Are you on the way?

One way to go is straight down the 1020 past Thoeng and from there you will find two routes (1155 or 1093) to Phu Chi Fah, with the longer one going past Phu Sang Waterfall.

Of course that route will take you far from the haunts of VF and Jubby in T. Mengrai, A. Phayamengrai. The new road (very steep), that goes over what we call Doi Yao, is an interesting and scenic way to get to Phu Chi Fah. You could drop in on Jubby on one side of Phayamenrai and VF on the other side before going over the mountains. But then you already knew that, didn't you.

(Did you get a copy of the GT-Rider Map yet?)

Edited September 26, 2010 by villagefarang

[jubby]

Looking at going to Pu che fa (sp?) sometime. Seeing what the different ways to go were. Are you on the way?

One way to go is straight down the 1020 past Thoeng and from there you will find two routes (1155 or 1093) to Phu Chi Fah, with the longer one going past Phu Sang Waterfall.

Of course that route will take you far from the haunts of VF and Jubby in T. Mengrai, A. Phayamengrai. The new road (very steep), that goes over what we call Doi Yao, is an interesting and scenic way to get to Phu Chi Fah. You could drop in on Jubby on one side of Phayamenrai and VF on the other side before going over the mountains. But then you already knew that, didn't you.

I'm in T. mae pao not T. Mengrai VF , but only just I think

I think svenivan touched on the routes in his excellent motorcycle posts a few months ago.

you could even take a bigger Circle and come Visit me in A. Wiang Kean, T . 'Mae lu'

and take in another mountain on the way, can't think of the name , and then Paddai by the river. Be a long day but worth it.

Theres also basic accomadation to be had free in Wiang Kean

Edited September 26, 2010 by jubby

[villagefarang]

Looking at going to Pu che fa (sp?) sometime. Seeing what the different ways to go were. Are you on the way?

One way to go is straight down the 1020 past Thoeng and from there you will find two routes (1155 or 1093) to Phu Chi Fah, with the longer one going past Phu Sang Waterfall.

Of course that route will take you far from the haunts of VF and Jubby in T. Mengrai, A. Phayamengrai. The new road (very steep), that goes over what we call Doi Yao, is an interesting and scenic way to get to Phu Chi Fah. You could drop in on Jubby on one side of Phayamenrai and VF on the other side before going over the mountains. But then you already knew that, didn't you.

I'm in T. mae pao not T. Mengrai VF , but only just I think

I think svenivan touched on the routes in his excellent motorcycle posts a few months ago.

you could even take a bigger Circle and come Visit me in A. Wiang Kean, T . 'Mae lu'

and take in another mountain on the way, can't think of the name , and then Paddai by the river. Be a long day but worth it.

Theres also basic accomadation to be had free in Wiang Kean

What a relief that you are actually in Mae Pao and not Mengrai. Doi Pha Tang would be that other mountain.

[scorpio1945]

Looking at going to Pu che fa (sp?) sometime. Seeing what the different ways to go were. Are you on the way?

One way to go is straight down the 1020 past Thoeng and from there you will find two routes (1155 or 1093) to Phu Chi Fah, with the longer one going past Phu Sang Waterfall.

Of course that route will take you far from the haunts of VF and Jubby in T. Mengrai, A. Phayamengrai. The new road (very steep), that goes over what we call Doi Yao, is an interesting and scenic way to get to Phu Chi Fah. You could drop in on Jubby on one side of Phayamenrai and VF on the other side before going over the mountains. But then you already knew that, didn't you.

(Did you get a copy of the GT-Rider Map yet?)

I never do drop ins (except for Kd). By invitation only. I am a stickler for hospitality protocol.

Just got a PN Map (brand name) and should have a GT Rider map by tomorrow.

The google map must? be in error as the "dot" that is labeled as Mengrai on Google map seems to be Mae Tam on the PN Map, or it is another Thai anomaly. That "mistake" is what started the whole argument.

I plan on using Sven's excellent post as a guideline. That is one of the reasons I am trying to learn Thai map reading. Minimise arguments as well.

[scorpio1945]

Looking at going to Pu che fa (sp?) sometime. Seeing what the different ways to go were. Are you on the way?

One way to go is straight down the 1020 past Thoeng and from there you will find two routes (1155 or 1093) to Phu Chi Fah, with the longer one going past Phu Sang Waterfall.

Of course that route will take you far from the haunts of VF and Jubby in T. Mengrai, A. Phayamengrai. The new road (very steep), that goes over what we call Doi Yao, is an interesting and scenic way to get to Phu Chi Fah. You could drop in on Jubby on one side of Phayamenrai and VF on the other side before going over the mountains. But then you already knew that, didn't you.

I'm in T. mae pao not T. Mengrai VF , but only just I think

I think svenivan touched on the routes in his excellent motorcycle posts a few months ago.

you could even take a bigger Circle and come Visit me in A. Wiang Kean, T . 'Mae lu'

and take in another mountain on the way, can't think of the name , and then Paddai by the river. Be a long day but worth it.

Theres also basic accomadation to be had free in Wiang Kean

I will consider that a tenative invitation. Will let you know. My better half is holding out for the new cars arrival but I would much rather ride the MC any day.

[villagefarang]

I never do drop ins (except for Kd). By invitation only. I am a stickler for hospitality protocol.

Just got a PN Map (brand name) and should have a GT Rider map by tomorrow.

The google map must? be in error as the "dot" that is labeled as Mengrai on Google map seems to be Mae Tam on the PN Map, or it is another Thai anomaly. That "mistake" is what started the whole argument.

I plan on using Sven's excellent post as a guideline. That is one of the reasons I am trying to learn Thai map reading. Minimise arguments as well.

I don't see any contradictions on my google map. Meng Rai, Mae Pao, Khun Tan, Mae Tam, Tat Khwan, Yang Hom all seem to be in their appropriate locations. I have seen government maps that show the actual boundaries and divisions but am not inclined to keep that kind of detail, gathering dust in my brain.

[scorpio1945]

I never do drop ins (except for Kd). By invitation only. I am a stickler for hospitality protocol.

Just got a PN Map (brand name) and should have a GT Rider map by tomorrow.

The google map must? be in error as the "dot" that is labeled as Mengrai on Google map seems to be Mae Tam on the PN Map, or it is another Thai anomaly. That "mistake" is what started the whole argument.

I plan on using Sven's excellent post as a guideline. That is one of the reasons I am trying to learn Thai map reading. Minimise arguments as well.

I don't see any contradictions on my google map. Meng Rai, Mae Pao, Khun Tan, Mae Tam, Tat Khwan, Yang Hom all seem to be in their appropriate locations. I have seen government maps that show the actual boundaries and divisions but am not inclined to keep that kind of detail, gathering dust in my brain.

I was wrong about Mae Tam. It is much further north. You have to have the magnification right in Google Earth but it shows a "dot" ,equivalent to the "dot" labeled Playa Mengrai

, labeled "Mengrai", NE of Playa Mengrai approximately half way to the river to the west. I assume it is a mistake. Admittedly not important, but it is there nonetheless. I tried to upload the map several time but it was "stripped" , I assume for copyright issues??

[mcgriffith]

Can a mod change the thread title to 'geographical'.... this topic doesn't have anything to do with geology, and I was quite looking forward to a good geological debate, disappointed now.

Done.

[villagefarang]

Can a mod change the thread title to 'geographical'.... this topic doesn't have anything to do with geology, and I was quite looking forward to a good geological debate, disappointed now.

Done.

Gee, McGriffith, three visits in one day. You should be in need of a holiday in the Rai, after all that work.

[sceadugenga]

It's not easy at the top...

[villagefarang]

It's not easy at the top...

Scea, we seem to be the only ones here. Perhaps we should sign off and go out to play in the rain like the others.

[sceadugenga]

Lets just keep the standard high for a while...

[mcgriffith]

No comment....

[Garry]

Geez you guys have all the fun, <deleted> am I doing wrong?