Pigs 101 (A Start)

[COXYATCITY]

Coxy,

So pleased to hear you bounced back on top. Good for you!

Thanks I A,.still learning as ever..

[Brabo]

Coxy,

We are in the same situation indeed. Nice to hear you are doing ok.

Maybe we can meet here in Sin City and discus pig-bussines with a cup of coffee ?

Grtz, Frank

[COXYATCITY]

Coxy,

We are in the same situation indeed. Nice to hear you are doing ok.

Maybe we can meet here in Sin City and discus pig-bussines with a cup of coffee ?

Grtz, Frank

coffee lol ,i will call you in a couple of days,cheers Ian

[FarAwayBen]

Frank,

Great report. Am glad to hear you are comfortable with your family and are thinking of moving up country. It takes some getting used to, but it's worth it.

I'd love to see your Excel spreadsheet, no translating necessary. Can you send that to me on facebook? if not, i'll give you my email from my FB account. I have my own spreadsheet going now. We finally got some gestation period feed details, and the numbers are a bit higher than my neighbor's assurance of "not to bad", but my wife also has a lot of good ideas she's been throwing out to offset that, so we are optimistic. Of course, we are not relying soley on this, and recognize the high risk in this business venture, so we are trying to brainstorm our options, at least in this early phase. You never know how things will turn out.

Thanks for all the info. How often do you get to head up to the farm? Have you taken any Thai (or Khmer, if you can find it) language classes? If you lived in Sisaket, would you live in the village proper with the family all around, or would you find someplace off to the side? Do you ever miss the countryside, living in the city? I've only been to Pattaya once, about 2 years ago, to visit a brother-in-law.. all I can say is, my god what a lot of traffic. Not much worth mentioning in the way of a beach. But plenty of places to play pool or snooker.

Ben

[Brabo]

Ben,

I will send you the file on FB.

How often do you get to head up to the farm?

I go every month for 2 or 3 days, if possible longer. It is not necessary but I just love to go there.

Have you taken any Thai (or Khmer, if you can find it) language classes?

I live here now for 4 years and took some language classes to. I don't speak the Thai language fluent, but good enough to help myself.

My Khmer skils are verry basic. My GF try to teach me every day a few words. When she is on the phone, I understand what she is talking about, but I have to ask her the details.

If you lived in Sisaket, would you live in the village proper with the family all around, or would you find someplace off to the side?

As I told you before, I try to fit in the family. Our land is in the same street her parents and grandfather live.

Do you ever miss the countryside, living in the city?

I do miss the countryside but for the moment, Pattaya is the place were I win my money. I am sure that I will miss certain things from Pattaya to, when I go live in the village.

My god what a lot of traffic. Not much worth mentioning in the way of a beach. But plenty of places to play pool or snooker

And so many other things

Enough about my boring life. How about yours?

Frank

[chrisnouy]

A request if you please Anybody know where i can get a second hand pig food mixer 1000kg capacity ?

[chrisnouy]

Hi everybody i am looking for a second hand feed mixer for pigs 1000kg capacity

ALL SUGGESTIONS WELCOMED

[jompa67]

Hi everybody i am looking for a second hand feed mixer for pigs 1000kg capacity

ALL SUGGESTIONS WELCOMED

http://ptg.igetweb.com/articles/41972934/%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B7%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%9C%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%9A%E0%B9%81%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%9A%E0%B9%81%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%82%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%94-500-%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B9%82%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%A1.html

Sorry for my browsers behavior I don't know price but horizontal mixers are more expensive then vertical. I think u can get a 1000Kg vertical mixer for around 60K bath.

[COXYATCITY]

Ben,

I will send you the file on FB.

How often do you get to head up to the farm?

I go every month for 2 or 3 days, if possible longer. It is not necessary but I just love to go there.

Have you taken any Thai (or Khmer, if you can find it) language classes?

I live here now for 4 years and took some language classes to. I don't speak the Thai language fluent, but good enough to help myself.

My Khmer skils are verry basic. My GF try to teach me every day a few words. When she is on the phone, I understand what she is talking about, but I have to ask her the details.

If you lived in Sisaket, would you live in the village proper with the family all around, or would you find someplace off to the side?

As I told you before, I try to fit in the family. Our land is in the same street her parents and grandfather live.

Do you ever miss the countryside, living in the city?

I do miss the countryside but for the moment, Pattaya is the place were I win my money. I am sure that I will miss certain things from Pattaya to, when I go live in the village.

My god what a lot of traffic. Not much worth mentioning in the way of a beach. But plenty of places to play pool or snooker

And so many other things

Enough about my boring life. How about yours?

Frank

well said Frank. ,

[Brabo]

Hi guys,

If I buy pigs in another province, I need a transportation licence --->

Where do I apply?

Do I need a licence for every province I drive thru?

Is it expencive?

Is it difficult to get?

Do I need a licence to fly them in from another province? ( Chang Mai --> Ubon )

A lot of questions, I know. Maybe someone can help ?

[IsaanAussie]

Hi guys,

If I buy pigs in another province, I need a transportation licence --->

Where do I apply?

Do I need a licence for every province I drive thru?

Is it expencive?

Is it difficult to get?

Do I need a licence to fly them in from another province? ( Chang Mai --> Ubon )

A lot of questions, I know. Maybe someone can help ?

Yes you do need a permit. You apply at your local animal welfare (Ag Dept) office and they will issue it for you. A map showing the route would be helpful just ib case but I havent had to produce one.

The deatils you have to supply include the number of pigs, their ages and breed. You need the departure farm name and address as well as the owner name and address. You need the destination household name and address and the farm if different. Then tou need to specify the make, model, even colour I think, as well as registration number of the exact vehicle the pigs will be transported in. Then the need the times and dates of travel. Easy really! Then from memory they will part you with about 300 baht and enter the records in the computer and issue you with the travel documents. One one permit needed.

Aeroplanes? Pass. Ask AirAsia.

PS. I almost forgot. They are suppose to have an inspector come and check the pigs AFTER arrival for diseases. That's pretty sharp eh?

Edited July 12, 2012 by IsaanAussie

[Brabo]

PS. I almost forgot. They are suppose to have an inspector come and check the pigs AFTER arrival for diseases. That's pretty sharp eh?

Thanks for the reply. It seems to be verry complete

What is the AG Dept? ( sorry for my lousy English) Local is that where my farm is, or the sellers?

Check the pigs AFTER arrival ??? That must be Thai logic.

[IsaanAussie]

PS. I almost forgot. They are suppose to have an inspector come and check the pigs AFTER arrival for diseases. That's pretty sharp eh?

Thanks for the reply. It seems to be verry complete

What is the AG Dept? ( sorry for my lousy English) Local is that where my farm is, or the sellers?

Check the pigs AFTER arrival ??? That must be Thai logic.

I do it as the seller. I go to my local district office to the Agricultural Department guys in charge of livestock. The morning AFTER, never heard of that, sounds like Thai logic as well.

I have written on this subject before and I still cannot understand why they check at the end of the journey. A diseased pig is going to leave some markers all along the journey and then infect the new area. To my simple mind it would be better to do a health check prior to permit to transport being issued. To a Thai farmer that is an unnecessary risk. If the pig is sick, then he gets done for the vet and fails to sell the pig. So to get pig movements understood the officials do it this way. Otherwise all movements would be at night when sick pigs would be better cared for. And for the poor bugger-buyer, well MaiPenRai

As a final note, I am actually not aware of one instance when those health checking guys actually turned up at the other end, so I suppose it is MaiPenRai all around! Yippee!

Edited July 12, 2012 by IsaanAussie

[Brabo]

PS. I almost forgot. They are suppose to have an inspector come and check the pigs AFTER arrival for diseases. That's pretty sharp eh?

Thanks for the reply. It seems to be verry complete

What is the AG Dept? ( sorry for my lousy English) Local is that where my farm is, or the sellers?

Check the pigs AFTER arrival ??? That must be Thai logic.

I do it as the seller. I go to my local district office to the Agricultural Department guys in charge of livestock. The morning AFTER, never heard of that, sounds like Thai logic as well.

I have written on this subject before and I still cannot understand why they check at the end of the journey. A diseased pig is going to leave some markers all along the journey and then infect the new area. To my simple mind it would be better to do a health check prior to permit to transport being issued. To a Thai farmer that is an unnecessary risk. If the pig is sick, then he gets done for the vet and fails to sell the pig. So to get pig movements understood the officials do it this way. Otherwise all movements would be at night when sick pigs would be better cared for. And for the poor bugger-buyer, well MaiPenRai

As a final note, I am actually not aware of one instance when those health checking guys actually turned up at the other end, so I suppose it is MaiPenRai all around! Yippee!

As far as I understand, it's paperwork for nothing. No health check before, it's just a formality so all transports allowed, no follow up after the transport, ...

Is it worth the risk to transport without permit? Where and when will be checked?

Last year I bought piglets from our young, Thai friend in Buriram. I didn't have a transport-permit. No problems at all. Was I lucky?

[IsaanAussie]

Brabo,

Thailand has laws and regulations. It has wealth and income gaps. Despite my own opinion I find playing by the rules here is usually the cheapest and the best option. I do not understand the cultural difference well enough but I do know that uneducated people talking amongst themselves about things they have no experience in is usually not the way to educate the masses or to actually achieve something

[Brabo]

Brabo,

Thailand has laws and regulations. It has wealth and income gaps. Despite my own opinion I find playing by the rules here is usually the cheapest and the best option. I do not understand the cultural difference well enough but I do know that uneducated people talking amongst themselves about things they have no experience in is usually not the way to educate the masses or to actually achieve something

IA,

Last year, when I did the transport, I wasn't aware of a permit. Only by reading on this forum, i found out about it. Now I will need to do another transport, that's why I asked. And as usual you gave a complete answer, (you should receive subsidy for your good work here).

You are right about playing by the rules here is usually the cheapest and the best option. That's why I wanted more info about, how to aply for this permit for my next transport, in the first place.

I can imagine that sometimes, you more experienced farmers must laugh with our aprentice questions. So : thank you for your patience !

[chrisnouy]

Some body mentioned earlier getting fully improted sperm for AI

Can you please tell me how to do this?

[IsaanAussie]

Brabo,

Thailand has laws and regulations. It has wealth and income gaps. Despite my own opinion I find playing by the rules here is usually the cheapest and the best option. I do not understand the cultural difference well enough but I do know that uneducated people talking amongst themselves about things they have no experience in is usually not the way to educate the masses or to actually achieve something

IA,

Last year, when I did the transport, I wasn't aware of a permit. Only by reading on this forum, i found out about it. Now I will need to do another transport, that's why I asked. And as usual you gave a complete answer, (you should receive subsidy for your good work here).

You are right about playing by the rules here is usually the cheapest and the best option. That's why I wanted more info about, how to aply for this permit for my next transport, in the first place.

I can imagine that sometimes, you more experienced farmers must laugh with our aprentice questions. So : thank you for your patience !

My life has always been and remains an education. I learn from most things you guys post here as well. There is always something you dont know or have not thought about. Business here is tough, be it pigs or a bar in Pattaya. Nothing humourous in reading about a guy giving it his best and prepared to try harder. My hat is off to all posters here, welcome to the University of Hard Knocks!

The guys I feel for most are those that give up or are beaten into submission. My wife and I scrape by with little but effort and will. I have seen four very dedicated guys I knew well who gave it all they had just walk away in the last six months. That saddens me, and shows me that unlike my pigs, maybe my sh1t smells as well.

Nothing is for nothing.

[IsaanAussie]

Some body mentioned earlier getting fully improted sperm for AI

Can you please tell me how to do this?

Chris,

Let me ask you a question, Why? I follow all the pig press and the genetic improvements, Blah blah. Why do you even think about adding cost to a service before you have a market past the small farmer down the road for the piglets. This to me is like buying imported high producing sows at 24,000 baht each. Hello, smell the roses! This is Thailand.....Pig prices are low and will stay that way. That you can take to the bank on your way to make the payment transfer.

Honestly, this to me is like taking all you baht money, all of it, screwing up each note and then setting fire to the lot just so you can make a few bags of biochar. What a noble deed!

[Brabo]

Some body mentioned earlier getting fully improted sperm for AI

Can you please tell me how to do this?

Chris,

Let me ask you a question, Why? I follow all the pig press and the genetic improvements, Blah blah. Why do you even think about adding cost to a service before you have a market past the small farmer down the road for the piglets. This to me is like buying imported high producing sows at 24,000 baht each. Hello, smell the roses! This is Thailand.....Pig prices are low and will stay that way. That you can take to the bank on your way to make the payment transfer.

Honestly, this to me is like taking all you baht money, all of it, screwing up each note and then setting fire to the lot just so you can make a few bags of biochar. What a noble deed!

Chris,

The imported sperm is not frech but frozen.

I wouldn't buy any imported Large White, Landrace or Duroc semen, becourse there is very good fresh quality semen for sale in Thailand.

If you are thinking about semen from rare breeds, frozen semen will be your only option.

Pornchaiinter imports frozen semen from Ireland. They even deliver the semen to your city, anywhere in Thailand. As far as I know, the prices start @ 4000 THB/tube.

You can get all the info from Khun Sanya. Her mobile: 0818578644

Frank

[IsaanAussie]

Today was something special, well to me anyway. I needed to fertilise the pond to increase duckweed protein levels a bit. A few hundred litres of septic tank effluent. I did that and then moved the pump to the pond to mix things up a bit, clean the hoses and aerate the water. In changing things around guess what I found? Compost worms in the hose! Integration, can it be real?

[IsaanAussie]

Oh yeah, another discovery this week is how to stabilise on farm brewed EM. Now I can store it on the shelf as do the Thais for up to three years. The significance is I can now sell a better quality probiotic for less than the usual stuff. Add, mix, blend, or whatever nothing! One tablespoon in a litre of water and you are off to the races.

[pigeonjake]

IA,

funny you should say that about the hoses,, when i was married in england i had 2 large koi carp ponds, when i used to clean the filter box there was allways plenty of worms there, red ones, didnt know how they used to get there and still dont to this day, but the fish used to know when it was worm time,,lol, they saw me going near the filter they new,,lol

funny thing is nature,

jake

[IsaanAussie]

I sat those darn worms down and grilled them for ages. "Just what are you guys doing out here?" They should be in the worm beds after all. Not a word from any of them, buggers. Fed them all to the Pla Duk and thought "Wont do that again will you!" Last thing you need is a worm rebellion

[pigeonjake]

get in the shade mate the suns got to you,

[chrisnouy]

Reason I asked was that the first sows i bought were from a guy at university ag dept He had bred using improrted semen-- or so he said

They were /are magnificent ladies Ive also had some piglets from other sows bought from him and ai-ed by him and they were good But he now wants 1000baht a pop

i am breeding and raising the pigs for market so improving my stock is always on my mind My other Ai option locally is okay at 700baht but i was looking for variety

I wont buy anything else locally as i got alot of rubbish along with the good and have culled at least 60% of my breeding stock after first litter to date

we are now breeding all our own sows but its a bit hit and miss

But at 4000 a tube i,m certainly not interested

But am still interested in good local semen at right price

[chrisnouy]

Ben,

There are two ways of feeding your pigs: mixing the feed yourself or going with a commercial brand.

If you are very knowledgable it is probably cheaper to mix it yourself butI for instance don't have the knowledge. But others on this forum do.

If you go for a commercial brand like Betagro, Balance, Sunfeed, Selectfeed or others follow their advice and use the feed strategy specific to that brand.

I use and sell Betagro (the normal green one not Balance).

If your weaned piglet start eating Betagro at 15kg kg and eat 0.66 bag of 301, 0.33 bag of 301-L, , 3 bags of 301B, 2 of 302 and one of 303 they should be at around105 kg after 4.5months.

But sime of my customers are used to other brands which require one bag of everynumber and ending with several bags of the highest numbered (and cheapest type). People refer to the bags as number 1 feed, number 2, etc. But number 2 from Betagro (302) for instance is aimed at 60+ kg pigs while number 2 from sunfeed is for 25-50kg pigs. So when starting with a new brand sometimes people use the wrong types with as a result slow growing pigs or even sickness.

One of the villagers here used wathever is cheapest; cp food which 'fell of the back of a truck', mixes her own feed or gives them left over food and I also caught her feed Betagro 304 (meanth for pigs over100 kg) to her 30kg pigs. I became involved because I act as the vilages unofficial vet and after 8months her pigs were still only 50kg and often very sick. Trying to educate her but only with limited success so far.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

Hi Revar

I've been reading back posts trying to catch up

You give details of feed here

can you tell me what is the total cost to get the pig to 100kg on this diet

[chrisnouy]

WOW, you guys have been busy this morning. First the tome on probiotics. Cant dispute what they claim but I see it cast in the light of the research funding source, guess who? A probiotic brewing company. No wonder it is so hard for anyone to get it to work. Dont even try it, just buy our freeze dried wonder dust, Poppycock!

I brew the stuff on site and put a litre in each 1,000 litre drinking water tank. The system self propetuates all I do is input more feed materials for the culture when the tanks are 50% used. They eat pig feed and brown sugar, they also eat rice wash water. Those who use EM will known that you can brew your own or your can buy the dormant culture for 50 baht a litre and multiple it out. Mine costs me 3 baht a litre.

The report doesnt not say anything about odour control or improved FCR's. It doesnt mention that the LAB accumulates in the pigs colon and improves digestion. It does mention the difficulties in freeze drying the stuff and storing it etc.. Well I dont have that problem as it used immediately in the water.

The implication is it must be used in a wet feeding system. Cant argue as that would work, but I am not changing feeding systems. I need the stuff to be viable in pelleted feed form.

So the real issues aren't how hard it is to brew the stuff because it isnt. You need to control forming temperatures so the microbes aren't cooked. You need to control moisture content so the feed doesnt mould and the microbes spore and go dormant. You need to control storage temperature of the feed so the microbes survive for a reasonable amount of time and provide some form of innoculant to prolong that period.

In a preparing the feed there is an opportunity to improve the digestibility of the raw materials by fermenting them in guess what? The probiotic! By fertilising my pond with effluent from the septic tanks on the sty I do two things, feed fish with natural foods that consume the nutrients and I boast the protein level in aquatic plants like duckweed to a point it is richer than soybean meal. I can harvest half my pond a day of duckweed and use it as an alternative feed source, if I ferment it as well more of the crude protein is useable. If I raise BSF larvae and cook that I can replace fish meal.

All the while the bacteria is out competing the nasty stuff inside the pig and I dont need antibiotics regularly, the growth hormones I dont need at all because the pig gets more out of its feed and as the nitrogen components are being used up, less smell.

I have read many of articles like this that to me present a commercial interest. I have also read research materials that have done much to solve the real issues. In the day when life was more leisurely, farmers used to grow and cook vegetables and grains to feed their pigs. The pigs were more resilient and performed slower but there was a profit to be gained and natural ethically raised pork available.

But get this, one thing that was used often to feed pigs was fermented cabbage leaves, the spoilt outer leaves and trim. The pigs did well because guess what occurs naturally ib cabbage? LAB...

Do I know it all, hell no heaps to learn. But I do know this, that if your can integrate your farming activities and waste nothing you can save external expenses and even make money by onselling the byproducts.

Pig and fish feed here I come!

Hi Issan aussie

Just been reading this post and am fascinated by duckweed as i had no idea what it was .

we started with pigs and fish 18 months ago just pumping the pig effluent into a couple of ponds where we had tilapai and catfish

cat fish seem to survive anything tilapia a bit different

i didnt realise the green stuff on the water surface is duckweed???

We got really badly washed away in the flood last year dams washed away and pig pens under water

Luckily we didnt lose the hogs but at presnt i have no fish but have a large pond with a beautiful green surface Is this duckweed

Can i harvest this??

[IsaanAussie]

Without seeing it, I cannot tell. It could be algae. Google duckweed images and then compare. Yes you can harvest it.

[Brabo]

Reason I asked was that the first sows i bought were from a guy at university ag dept He had bred using improrted semen-- or so he said

They were /are magnificent ladies Ive also had some piglets from other sows bought from him and ai-ed by him and they were good But he now wants 1000baht a pop

i am breeding and raising the pigs for market so improving my stock is always on my mind My other Ai option locally is okay at 700baht but i was looking for variety

I wont buy anything else locally as i got alot of rubbish along with the good and have culled at least 60% of my breeding stock after first litter to date

we are now breeding all our own sows but its a bit hit and miss

But at 4000 a tube i,m certainly not interested

But am still interested in good local semen at right price

700 THB is way to much for AI. In the big farms you pay normally about 250 to 300 THB. Another sollution might be buying semen from the Department of Livestock. This would be the cheapest sollution.

Where is your farm located? If you are in the envirement of Chiang Mai I know another good adress for you.

Frank