Pigs 101 (A Start)

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

I don't have a direct answer but I can tell you what BACO does. We get our vaccine shipped from BKK to CNX - it comes in a Styrofoam cooler packed in frozen ice packs. It goes directly from the cooler to our sperm refrigerator where it stays until we actually use it.

Personally, I think it is very important. It is live vaccine!

[OMB]

Hi Pigeonjake,

Yes I am planning to run them outside and almost totally free-range and pasture-fed (with dietary support where necessary). I am now planning the acreage so that there is plenty of access to shade, fresh water and shelter. I am also considering raising the first few cohorts before the really hot season kicks in (June - Feb). The concept is to look at recreating as close to a typical environment for them to forage, snout and graze. This is a hobby that I plan to enjoy in my retirement. I am planning to seed a range of different grasses, and veg along with fruit trees. I have to identify which will be most effective as pasture feed and those that suit the local environment and climate. I have a steep learning curve but that is all part of the fun.

I am also interesting in starting a small trial of pastured pigs. It would be interesting to hear of updates as you go along.

For the housed pig farmers: how often do you worm and what do you use?

[RedBullHorn]

Welcome OMB, It has been discussed in past posts, try reading from the start.

[Falang Nang Fa]

Question:

May you give an injection to a pregnant sow. Yes or no ?

My vet don't want to give a amoxy injection to a sow because she is pregnant but she as a little skin infection.

On the other side, he must give her next week the PRRS Vaccin, and than he said that it was no problem.

What is here the catch? May I believe him or what?

Thx

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

It would always depend on the injection AND the recommendations of the drug manufacturer.

I do not know about amoxy, sorry, but I do know you can give PRRS.

It sounds to me like your vet is giving you good, but cautious, advice.

Why not search the internet for an answer:

When I do an internet search I see:

Amoxycare LA Injection can be safely administered during pregnancy and lactation.

As with all other antibiotics, Bimoxyl LA shouldbe used with caution during pregnancy andlactation. There is no evidence that the use of amoxicillin presents any particular hazardeither to the dam or to the foetus.

Amoxicillin Animal studies have not yet demonstrated risk to the fetus, but there are no adequate studies in pregnant women; or animal studies have shown an adverse effect, but adequate studies in pregnant women have not demonstrated a risk to the fetus in the first trimester of pregnancy, and there is no evidence of risk in later trimesters.)

[thedoctor]

daily food intake per kg pig

does anyone know what the daily food intake would roughly be per kg pig

what i mean is how many kg of quality bought pig food would a pig of lets say 40kg require per day

and a pig of 90 kg eat,

i have 10 pigs around the 90 kg eating from the food bin, i feed twice a day and i want to keep the food up at the right level without wasting

food,

i usually tip in a bucket and wait until they finish it before adding more food to the bin then watch until they seem content

i am reading all the posts on here from day one currently on page 23 but i havent seen anything on what kgs per weight a pig eats

is there a formular for the above kgs per kg

regards mick

[RedBullHorn]

Personal source

In Kilograms, food intake per day and breed comparison

Edited September 18, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

There are many answers to your question.

Much depends on what feed you are putting into their mouth - is the feed high protein with milk powder added then the piglet will grow faster.

It also depends on the sex, males generally grow faster.

It also depends on the pedigree.

You need to use charts only as a guideline.

Well, the system will not let me load a spreadsheet. When I cut and paste the data it takes out of the file and makes it flat data that is unreadable.

So I will try making a jpg from it

Well, I does not allow me to paste a picture from paint......

If you want my charts, have two, contact me at Randall at SurinFarm

Edited September 18, 2013 by ChiangMaiPigFarmer

[IsaanAussie]

Try printing or saving it as a pdf file that should work.

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

Thanks Aussie,

Here are the speadsheets

Randall

spreedsheet 2 pdf.pdf

spreedsheet 1 pdf.pdf

Edited September 18, 2013 by ChiangMaiPigFarmer

[IsaanAussie]

I agree with with CMPF has said, a guide only and then only if properly formulated feed. What I would suggest is have a look at the feed used between the stages of feed and pig development. RBH's chart shows this perfectly. As a stage 1 grower, a pig will double it's daily feed requirement over just 10kg weight gain (20 to 30 kg). Excuse my use of Betagrow numbering. That is 951 for stage 1. The next doubling of intake occurs between 30 and 60 kgs (952).

The first grade is the most expensive and the pig is growing the fastest. You should to feed to appetite to maximise returns up until 60kgs. Between 60 and 90 kg the FCR starts to increase and you should start to feed to diet to avoid wastage and overweight pigs.

Every sty has a different climate and environment which will mean slight differences in intake. I suggest you slightly underfeed to start and then adjust until all but a small amount is left after they finish eating. For over 60kgs do the same thing and then reduce it a bit and supplement with water lettuce, banana leaves and things they like to eat.

I am sure I posted my basic chart somewhere early on this thread but it should be something you are monitoring to control your operation anyway. Small pigs will play with excess feed and waste it, large pigs will leave it get stale and then not want to eat it.

[pigeonjake]

mac my wife has just been and got these for me for when i get home,

she,ll go and get another 20 next month then ill be home to take over,, 650bht each, we have been getting piglets like these from the same lady for over 4 years now, she always gives us first pick as we buy the most from her,

good piglets at a good price,

jake

[RedBullHorn]

Not a good price Jake... It's an excellent price !!! What a steal~

"Current" Northern region farmgate prices : ฿73-74/kg

Piglets 16kg : ฿1'800

Edited September 22, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[pigeonjake]

ive had them at good prices like this for years,

thats what i said in a few posts, i have to drive for 1and a half hours but so what,

the pig lady who i get them from is brillient with us, invites us in there house for a drink when i get there,

there is many large pig farms were she lives, and ive said it before these must be there runts,!!

but they do grow out well, sometimes if they look a bit young ill put them on milk too, humen baby milk not the cow stuff, a few days of that and there up running great,

so like i say mac will go and get another 20 next month, im home 1st december then ill take over,,lol,

i really do like taking care of them,

i like to get 20 a month in and out, and we make good money on them, mainly because i get them cheap, so im saying a 1000 on them from the start,

jake

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

Yes, it is an excellent price if your buyer does not discount you at the time of sale.

What I found in this part of Thailand is this; the brokers come to the village and buy finished village pigs at greatly reduced prices since they say "the pig are inferior".

To combat this (as the villagers were buying cheaply BUT also selling cheaply) my wife and I started a prorgram called OCOP - One Community One Product (,com) where any villager can get a pedigree gilt for free and feed from us on credit. They must raise the pig with mostly quality commercial feed and when ready to breed we provide pedigree AI breeding for them. The new piglets then sell at a premium and the villagers are happy. Instead of getting 600 (like you got) they are now getting 1,200 to 1,500. The buyers in this area know that they must pay premium prices for premium piglets and they know which farms to come to, there is a sign showing they are part of the program on each farm.

Works here. Some say I am crazy for giving away pedigree gilts but I say it is great for business as now more brokers/buyers are coming to the village to purchase piglets and the villagers and our farm get along.

[revar]

Jake,

What is the average weight of the piglets?

,I have a similar source from which I buy piglets between 4-12 kg at 80thb/kg.

Sent from my i-mobile i-style 7.1 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[RedBullHorn]

Yes, it is an excellent price if your buyer does not discount you at the time of sale.

What I found in this part of Thailand is this; the brokers come to the village and buy finished village pigs at greatly reduced prices since they say "the pig are inferior".

To combat this (as the villagers were buying cheaply BUT also selling cheaply) my wife and I started a prorgram called OCOP - One Community One Product (,com) where any villager can get a pedigree gilt for free and feed from us on credit. They must raise the pig with mostly quality commercial feed and when ready to breed we provide pedigree AI breeding for them. The new piglets then sell at a premium and the villagers are happy. Instead of getting 600 (like you got) they are now getting 1,200 to 1,500. The buyers in this area know that they must pay premium prices for premium piglets and they know which farms to come to, there is a sign showing they are part of the program on each farm.

Works here. Some say I am crazy for giving away pedigree gilts but I say it is great for business as now more brokers/buyers are coming to the village to purchase piglets and the villagers and our farm get along.

Jake, you need to read betweens the lines...It's true~ we do that...

Edited September 22, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[pigeonjake]

the piglats to me from the pics look i would say 8 to 10 kg,

they look a good lot to me,

like i said in the other post sometimes there smller, but i can still bring them on ok,

i always get a little more then other small thai farmers round here, as the buyers know i use commercial food and the pigs arnt fat,

i might not get the 72/73bht a kilo as the big farms do, but im happy with what i get,

and ive said it before on here, when i do stop work i will also slaughter and sell from home, just round the local villages,

ive tested the water doing this, and i can sell a pig in a day. just by word of mouth from family,,lol

[pigeonjake]

Yes, it is an excellent price if your buyer does not discount you at the time of sale.

What I found in this part of Thailand is this; the brokers come to the village and buy finished village pigs at greatly reduced prices since they say "the pig are inferior".

To combat this (as the villagers were buying cheaply BUT also selling cheaply) my wife and I started a prorgram called OCOP - One Community One Product (,com) where any villager can get a pedigree gilt for free and feed from us on credit. They must raise the pig with mostly quality commercial feed and when ready to breed we provide pedigree AI breeding for them. The new piglets then sell at a premium and the villagers are happy. Instead of getting 600 (like you got) they are now getting 1,200 to 1,500. The buyers in this area know that they must pay premium prices for premium piglets and they know which farms to come to, there is a sign showing they are part of the program on each farm.

Works here. Some say I am crazy for giving away pedigree gilts but I say it is great for business as now more brokers/buyers are coming to the village to purchase piglets and the villagers and our farm get along.

good idea,

but whos going to garantee how many piglets they get from the pedigree sow?

we have bread our own, but i found it was to risky, ok if you have a lot of sows and can offset the bad litters,

we had 7 sows at one point, some would give good litters, then the one that had 1 piglet still born, profit from the good one gone,

ill stick to just buying mine in the way i do, its works for us and thats what you have to do find something that works for you,

we feed them well and they grow out well, they have a very happy, even if short life with me,

thers other things im looking at talking to feed companys, to be a local supplier, they seam to want falang in this, why i dont know but they do,

and the end of the day its makes a profit and that why we are all in the farming game,

im lucky that i still work, so its not my main income, but it will be one day, so im still learning,,

jake

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

There are no guarantees! We can all only do the best - at what we do the best - whatever it is - that we do.

There really are no right answers! I can only pray that we all find personal success in our endeavors.

Good luck to all of you! Be happy!

Edited September 22, 2013 by ChiangMaiPigFarmer

[IsaanAussie]

It is great to see this thread with a positive note behind it and the topic more to a strategic conversation. I love the OCOP concept. Given the obvious parallel to OTOP and the linkage you have to the Royal Project it is a great idea. PJ your missus has an eye for a deal. They are a well balanced group of piglets.

From my position on the sidelines I would urge everyone to stay alert though. The pigs333 chart shows how volatile the live prices here have become. If the Thai economy is as fragile as some commentators are suggesting then as a "luxury" meat, pork prices could take a big hit. Obviously the impact being felt by the grower more so than the supermarket.

Guys, the world is in a rapidly expanding bubble economy. I don't want to be alarmist but must stress caution. Look at the top of the industry, the corporates, they have moved out of farming and risk. Imported pork from the USA has been sanctioned. If it all goes bang, the big guys have the bases covered in this "Muck or Money" game, take care...

[pigeonjake]

its always been risky,,

thats why im wanting to start selling from home, it would be great to sell meat at 100bht kilo, i did it before with a pig that wasnt growing out, and was going to be smaller then the others,

you can sell a pig a day just round our local villages, thats the way i see things going, the people in the villages would be happy and so would i,

last time i had one slaughterd brought back to me in 2 halfs cost me 500bht,

its something ive been thinking about for a couple of years as some will remember,

just means building a large shed come shop a couple of good fridges and away we go,,, hopefully,,lol,

have to wait and see,,

jake,

ps IA this as always been a good informative thread and i for one miss your writings,,

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks Jake. I sure miss our pigs.. one day.

Good luck with the pork business. What sort of yield do you expect per pig?

[pigeonjake]

hi IA,

i think if you could get 70% i think that would be ok,

we all have ideas to try, i wouldnt mind having a go at the mushrooms too, just small stuff mainly for us and in our village,

ive got my little tractor now so i go up and down the trees and mac can plant her veg,

i really hope you can get back into the pig game, you put a lot into it and you should be able to get things out,

jake

[RedBullHorn]

Yes, it is an excellent price if your buyer does not discount you at the time of sale.

What I found in this part of Thailand is this; the brokers come to the village and buy finished village pigs at greatly reduced prices since they say "the pig are inferior".

To combat this (as the villagers were buying cheaply BUT also selling cheaply) my wife and I started a prorgram called OCOP - One Community One Product (,com) where any villager can get a pedigree gilt for free and feed from us on credit. They must raise the pig with mostly quality commercial feed and when ready to breed we provide pedigree AI breeding for them. The new piglets then sell at a premium and the villagers are happy. Instead of getting 600 (like you got) they are now getting 1,200 to 1,500. The buyers in this area know that they must pay premium prices for premium piglets and they know which farms to come to, there is a sign showing they are part of the program on each farm.

Works here. Some say I am crazy for giving away pedigree gilts but I say it is great for business as now more brokers/buyers are coming to the village to purchase piglets and the villagers and our farm get along.

good idea,

but whos going to garantee how many piglets they get from the pedigree sow?

we have bread our own, but i found it was to risky, ok if you have a lot of sows and can offset the bad litters,

we had 7 sows at one point, some would give good litters, then the one that had 1 piglet still born, profit from the good one gone,

ill stick to just buying mine in the way i do, its works for us and thats what you have to do find something that works for you,

we feed them well and they grow out well, they have a very happy, even if short life with me,

thers other things im looking at talking to feed companys, to be a local supplier, they seam to want falang in this, why i dont know but they do,

and the end of the day its makes a profit and that why we are all in the farming game,

im lucky that i still work, so its not my main income, but it will be one day, so im still learning,,

jake

Jake, i like your attitude man! Plus 100 "Like" !

When i read this post of yours.....I thought you sounded a lot like myself when i started out 12 year ago...It is me i see in you !

I am who i am today in Thailand... because i dare !

One door closes another door will open. Be gutsy, cautious and fine eyes for detail. You will make it...I did~

Edited September 23, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[pigeonjake]

thank you redbullhorn,

that meen a lot to me,

but like i have siad on here before, ive got an advantage from others that i still work,

but you can believe me, i will make it work here, in one way or another,

jake

[IsaanAussie]

Good for you Jake! Like RBH said, I can see a lot of similarity in your attitude to my own. There simply has to be a way. I am still trying to find the answer and despite setbacks will keep looking. Enjoy the journey not just strive for the objective. Burnt or buried, we all share the final destination and I for one am in no rush to get there. Too much still to do.

[cdmtdm]

i am not a pig farmer but this thread gives me hope and desire to push on in my own direction .....regardless of all the negatives we must all follow our own dreams ...... well done fellas ....you inspire me !!

[thedoctor]

the reason for selling ?

Do you weigh them yourself , then decide, or do you look at your records [ if you keep such things ] and decide their starting to cost more then you can get back at the current price for live pigs? so they must go soon

i have 10 to offload at the moment and looking at my book keeping i should make more then they cost if they go this week,,, thats not including my time ho ho ho,

i have a buyer who wants them all on friday, at 62 bht

i am guessing they are at about the 90 + kgs but i dont have a cage or scales so ill only know when they get in the cage

what reason do you guys use for selling,, weight or costs ?

Also mixing young pigs from different litters,, i have a sty with 7 ,, a sty with 9,, a sty with 8,, and a 6,, when my first lot go i am going to re arrainge some of the sty's im looking to put 10 in some if i can do that ,, sty's are 4.5 mts x 4 mts,, but because of losing some, and longDow getting some as payment for a long time outstanding loan im not useing the rooms to full extent,,

what can you recomend for mixing piglets about 10 to 20 kgs is there a way to cause less stress [ to me ]

A thai woman told me to put talc powder on all the pigs so they all smell the same ,, then no problem !!

any help is good help,,

IA, i also thank you for your replies to many questions from me and others, hope you make it back one day soon, if you want to.

regards mick

[IsaanAussie]

No problems Doc,

Leave the current selling comments to those active at the moment.

Mixing pigs will cause tensions it is a natural reaction. If the pigs are well fed and comfortable then sorting out the pecking order only takes an hour or two. If you have young pigs under 20kgs then the pen size you have will accomodate 15 or more in each (pen 18sq metres) so they have over a sqm each. I would sex segregate them if the numbers are almost even into two pens. That way you half the pens to be cleaned and with the right density they all <deleted> in the same corner. As they grow you can split them up. Another reason to sex segregate is barrows will eat more than the gilts if given the chance. They are less FCR efficient.

Avoid moving in smaller pigs, I would more average size pigs if more than one, if only one then shift one the same size as the biggest and boldest. Never shift a pig with a cut or injury as the existing residents will go for the wound. Watch out for tail, ear and other biting during the first few hours. If a pig is injured badly then get it out of the pen quick and if it goes back to the old group, keep an eye out for a while especially if it has been gone for a while.

I prefer not to move pigs but when I did I would stand in the pen with them for a while so they are distracted and be able to get in between any fighters. The pig to watch is the new one. If it submits quickly, then there won't be much of a problem.

I have heard of all sorts of smells being used. Some splash whiskey on the snouts, some spray jensens violet. Some even spread crap from the new pen on the new pigs. All a waste of time they are social animals and need to have a pecking order. You are better off putting something in there to distract attention, banana leaves or cut up stems before the new pigs enter.

I used to move after feeding and watering to remove contests and after the pens and pigs are washed down.