Pigs 101 (A Start)

[RedBullHorn]

Hi Guys, I'm now out of the pig business for good. Sold the Hino and my business contract to......my Driver for a 3 folds! Yeaaaaa! Now i can sleep peacefully and eat heartily. Bye bye~

[pigeonjake]

ill just let some chickens run with the pigs dont have any trouble,some say no good, but each to there own,,lol

the pics of the new piglets mac my wife went to get yesterday,

looking good

[IsaanAussie]

Hi Guys, I'm now out of the pig business for good. Sold the Hino and my business contract to......my Driver for a 3 folds! Yeaaaaa! Now i can sleep peacefully and eat heartily. Bye bye~

Been wondering about when you would pull the plug on this. Out with a profit and before the AEC opens up. Sounds like your timing is about right AGAIN.

[HenkBeekhuis]

how will the Aec impact pig farming do u think?

[IsaanAussie]

Import export will be made easier and more formal. Currently a lot of lets say "opportunities" are explored to "simply things" and numbers are small. The larger farms are starting preparation already. Generally speaking I would expect it to reduce pig prices.

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

I personally think the opposite - just my opinion and that opinion has often been wrong

I think the price of pig (piglets and gilts and pork) will go up and then find a level that where it will hold. Why:

• Today the government controls the price of pigs in the market
• Today the two large companies control the prices set by the government
• Tomorrow the global Asian market will control the prices
• Pricing needs to be all about Economics 101 - Supply and Demand - Not about company demands
• Today if there are too many small farms the controlling big boys drop the price of piglets and raise the price of feed and in five months the small farms are gone!

I currently get many orders for hundreds, and thousands, of piglets to be shipped to China. China is a black hole sucking up all supply – their demand is large. I of course am just a small farm that cannot even begin to fill the orders.

That makes me wonder if tomorrow us “small farms” will become smart enough to cooperate to fill these large orders. In the Thai only thinking it will never happen. Maybe tomorrow it will be possible.

And not to be forgotten, in Thailand I am also at the mercy of frogs and snails and seasonal bugs. When Mother Nature in the wild provides food to the country masses the prices go down. It would be wonderful to have more varied demand to maintain the prices.

Other factors are things like: a short while ago Vietnam needed piglets BUT I could not ship them over the border. One of the "big two" could and did.

Fair trade will allow us to freely trade and fairly trade without control by the Thai big boys.

I scratch my head when thinking about how those big boys are going to posture their business in the new market???????????????? This global thinking is anti-Thai thinking. And anti conrol of Thai thinking.

[IsaanAussie]

Fair trade will allow us to freely trade and fairly trade without control by the Thai big boys.

My turn to disagree. The biggest of the boys has operations in 12 Asian Nations. He produces over 25 million tonnes of feed per year, almost twice the volume of the second largest manufacturer. Vertically integrated as suits the nation and it's industry development stage. He exits livestock farms as soon as he can control the supply and demand under contract to others.

There is nothing to suggest that his potential influence will do anything but increase internationally. Nothing fair in trade. Deal under his terms or die are the rules of business.

A further comment. Village level pig farming will remain largely as is. So small and dispersed it will never be of interest to large players. What I see happening here is the Corporates will establish supply contracts with regionally placed large farms. Those farms will form contract arrangements with middle size farms in their areas. Outside that hub and spoke arrangement the small players will fight for the local and niche markets and individual customers. The small players are simply not big enough to supply to regional, national or international contract requirements. Nor would they be competitive in light of the administration and logistic costs.

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

Points well taken - really no disagreement that I see overall: Our understanding of how the big boys affect us small boys is different or maybe it is just because of the level I play at. The big boys provide unbelievable control over the village farms. About every two years when they raise prices of feed and drop the price of pork almost all of the people I supply piglets to stop their pig farms and then wait for the cycle to return to the top again. When they are waiting my sows continue to eat and produce piglets that also need to eat and I must feed.

I still think the wider the field where we can sell the better the odds of a somewhat level market. The more farms that are available to be traded with the better the field. Even as big as the big boy is he only has so many pigs.

As to regional farms: we in Thailand need to remember that the only reason many of us are able to sell into the food chain, outside of the village store where eyes are turned aside, is that laws are not enforced. Technically only Thai Government Approved Standard Farms are allowed to sell to the public.

One thing I know for sure, time will tell.

I can only pray that the bigger the field of trade the better the odds are of it being a level playing field.

And yes, the big will grow bigger and the small will need to find their place.

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

Let me just show you how NOT smart I am and why you should not listen to my opinion or advice; after reading this you will agree that my advice to all should be, don’t listen to my advice.

The experts tell me to have a two breed sow. They also tell me to cull a sow after the seventh litter.

Ms. Sow 30, a grand old lady, our 30^th sow, was born October 12, 2008 the daughter to our 16^th sow. Ms. Sow 16 was 50% Duroc and 50% Pietrain bred using Thai Government 100% Landrace sperm. She is 50% Landrace, 25% Duroc and 25% Pietrain. I kept her as she was a lovely little piglet that I decided needed to be kept on the farm as an experiment.

16 piglets on 15 ตุลาคม 2556

14 piglets on 21 พฤษภาคม 2556

16 piglets on 25 ธันวาคม 2556

14 piglets on 1 สิงหาคม 2555

12 piglets on 2 มีนาคม 2555

10 piglets on 7 ตุลาคม 2554

10 piglets on 29 เมษายน 2554

09 piglets on 8 พฤศจิกายน 2553

12 piglets on 19 มิถุนายน 2553

Out of 113 current sows, and about 200 culled sows, she is the best of the best and is the only three breed I have ever kept.

Let me give you a little history on this pig – to me it is fun to hear Paul Harvey say, “And now for the rest of the story”.

Ms. Sow 16 grandmother was one of the Belgium pigs that came to Thailand as a birthday present from the King of Belgium to the King of Thailand and arrived pigs arrived at Chiang Mai International Airport on December 16, 2004. She, along with the other 15, was put into Royal Project of His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej.

Her grandfather, Mr. Thai Gov 551138, was one of the Landrace pigs that came to Thailand on February 1, 2005 for the start of the 43^rd Kasetsart University Annual Animal Conference. For this conference tests were performed on three lines of Landrace pigs. Fourteen Landrace pigs, 2 boars and 12 sows, were brought to Thailand from Canada, United States and Norway.

What is going to happen to Ms. Sow 30? I will watch her to see how see feels on December 5, 2013 and if fine I will breed her again and see what her babies look like on March 29, 2014.

If really smart I would keep all of her four breed piglets and bank my farm on them!

[RedBullHorn]

Hi Guys, I'm now out of the pig business for good. Sold the Hino and my business contract to......my Driver for a 3 folds! Yeaaaaa! Now i can sleep peacefully and eat heartily. Bye bye~

Been wondering about when you would pull the plug on this. Out with a profit and before the AEC opens up. Sounds like your timing is about right AGAIN.

My main reason is...I can't sleep well at night.

Being a successful pig farmer is different from being an exporter and contracted transporter.

If a pig/pigs die on the ferry across the Mekong river...It will be ordered to be kick out of the ferry and into the moving current rather then to incur more cost to fetch it back by speedboat/sampan.

I still make my money transporting them and incur no losses if any of them die along the way but none die under my charge in the Hino as i have specifically instructed my driver to take good care of them, to stop along the route as many time as needed and spray water to cool them down. But the welfare of this pigs are not the same once we hand them over to the other party (transfer to their Hino) and they board the ferry crossing the river to the other side.

As an ex-farmer of this beautiful creatures...The sight of them been kick out of the ferry is eating into me and taking a toll on my conscience.

It's time to get out of this business, i can make money else where...

[revar]

 

Hi Guys, I'm now out of the pig business for good. Sold the Hino and my business contract to......my Driver for a 3 folds! Yeaaaaa! Now i can sleep peacefully and eat heartily. Bye bye~

Been wondering about when you would pull the plug on this. Out with a profit and before the AEC opens up. Sounds like your timing is about right AGAIN.

 

 

My main reason is...I can't sleep well at night.

 

Being a successful pig farmer is different from being an exporter and contracted transporter.

 

If a pig/pigs die on the ferry across the Mekong river...It will be ordered to be kick out of the ferry and into the moving current rather then to incur more cost to fetch it back by speedboat/sampan.

 

I still make my money transporting them and incur no losses if any of them die along the way but none die under my charge in the Hino as i have specifically instructed my driver to take good care of them, to stop along the route as many time as needed and spray water to cool them down. But the welfare of this pigs are not the same once we hand them over to the other party (transfer to their Hino) and they board the ferry crossing the river to the other side.

 

As an ex-farmer of this beautiful creatures...The sight of them been kick out of the ferry is eating into me and taking a toll on my conscience.

 

It's time to get out of this business, i can make money else where...

Best reason there is to stop.

I am working with pigs instead of catfish, crickets or mushrooms or teaching because I've to work with these friendly animals. Other areas offer better profits but if I was in it for the money only I would better ha e staid in Holland. I had the opportunity to take over a contract to find and deliver pigs to a meatfactory. but declined . It would be a good move businesswise but the thought of just collecting pigs and delivering g them all day didn't appeal to me.

I trust you keep doing well with the catfish and am sure we do 't need to worry about you getting g poor.

But I hope you keep participating in the pig 101 forum. We can still learn a lot from you.

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[IsaanAussie]

You three guys are great, you inspire me. One day I will get back into keeping pigs because I love it too.

[RedBullHorn]

Me too IA, 2 more years on my expansion plan of catfishes i will be so stable that I'd be back keeping pigs even if i am making little to no profit. The experiance stays, just love the feeling of pigs surrounding me.

[OBCMO]

Hi guys,

Been busy with other stuff. Got your point on giving credit. Will consider.

Related to scorpions we have this blue net all over and buried also under ground. Have not seen any but also not around the farm. Might be too many people, dogs or heavy machinery. The land around the farm is filled.

Our 99 of 100 pigs are quite ok. One died of lung problems. Today moved one very weak to pen for sick pigs, which already had two with leg problem and one recovering of cough. It was way smaller than others and weak. Thais seem to worry moving sick animals because they cant be moved back? We still have spare room so they can make one more pen? There is extra roof for at least 100 sqm.

Great to see that some are taking small pigkets having issues. Great and hopefully goes fine.

-OBCMO

[COXYATCITY]

strange day today,not at the farm myself.. 1 sow gave birth to 10 stillborn and 11 piglets that are fine,and they are all of good size.,the most piglets we have had from a sow before is 16 ,i wonder what the reason is for the still borns,any ideas

cheers Ian

[thedoctor]

Sorry cant help with that one ian.

i wrote about selling to market people who didnt pay when they took the pigs,,

just to contiue with that, about a week ago we went looking for some piglets near RoiEt , turns out the missus knows this seller from her husbands past,

talked to him but his piglets were just born , she mentioned selling and not getting the money,

he said he will give her the number of a guy that buy's and pays cash everytime ,

3 days ago this guy turns up likes what he see's goes and gets his truck and takes 9 out of the 10, he only has 9 crates,

pays 62bht pigs weigh from 94 - 114 kg i got about 57000,

today he calls again, takes the one he missed before and another 5 same price 62bht, pays cash again about 40,000

before he leaves he says he will buy all the time if we give him a call first.

then he tells tingtong about the last pigs he bought from us ,,

someone went to him and told him they need 7 pigs to make merit,, butcherd and deliverd to there place,, so he did the work filled the order,

when that buyer picked up the pigs they didnt have the money to pay but they wll pay when they have the money ,,, yea right,, ,, so thai people do it to other thai's also

regards mick

[thoongfoned]

strange day today,not at the farm myself.. 1 sow gave birth to 10 stillborn and 11 piglets that are fine,and they are all of good size.,the most piglets we have had from a sow before is 16 ,i wonder what the reason is for the still 003.JPG003.JPGborns,any ideas

cheers Ian

how big were the still borns, all the same or different sizes? maybe not enough room in the womb? were the still born the last out? if so they got stuck. 21 a very good number, the most we have out alive is 23, but at least 3 or 4 of these would be very small say 1 kg at birth. litters of these sizes are few and far between....

[HenkBeekhuis]

Any1 know if u can by maxgro semen or gilts in Thailand>? or if the only way to get them is trough the hermitage website?

[COXYATCITY]

strange day today,not at the farm myself.. 1 sow gave birth to 10 stillborn and 11 piglets that are fine,and they are all of good size.,the most piglets we have had from a sow before is 16 ,i wonder what the reason is for the still 003.JPG003.JPGborns,any ideas

cheers Ian

how big were the still borns, all the same or different sizes? maybe not enough room in the womb? were the still born the last out? if so they got stuck. 21 a very good number, the most we have out alive is 23, but at least 3 or 4 of these would be very small say 1 kg at birth. litters of these sizes are few and far between....

the still borns were a good size ,1 alive 2 dead 3 alive 2 dead and so on,so i think it must have been suffication.

cheers Ian

[thedoctor]

Revar

i cant be 100% sure it was a scorpion because i didnt see it ,,

but the Ma, and tingtong, and uncle all said thats a scorpion sting, they have all had deaths from scorpions before,

that pig is fine now no problem,and about 25kg now

we went searching for a new lot yesterday got 9 about 7kg and touch wood they look good, paid 1150,bht each

visited four small farms in the mooban all had piglets for sale all same price and no spots or scabs or crook legs,or backs on any farm

the three places were all clean for thai standards,

but the other three farms are a week off taking the piglets out,, three litters all born same day on the 29th sept

last week we orderd some from another area to pick up next week, At that farm they had 7 Durock piglets but they had been sold or i would have taken them,

they looked like baby dogs or baby deer,

so cute very brown and a nose and trotter nearly black and shiny

Regards M

[Falang Nang Fa]

Is there someone near Khon Kaen do Artificial Insemination with the pigs?

And where do you get your semen?

The closest place for fresh semen that I find is Livestock Nakhon Ratchasima.

regards,

Chris

[revar]

Yes, inactivated and dead are the same thing.

 

All pigs start with a live vaccine. If you are just starting you need to vaccinate all you pigs first.

 

After that - any new gilt born on your farm gets live vaccine at 4 weeks old.  If you are going to vaccinate finishing piglets they also get live vaccine at 4 weeks old (most customers will not want to pay the extra +/- 60 baht). Any new pigs you bring on to your farm get live vaccine first.

 

Then you are working with dead/inactive vaccine for booster (as per schedule in first message0

 

Any gilts purchased would get live when arriving and then get the dead booster 3 weeks later (we do not do that, we give the booster prior to breeding)

 

 

 

don't understand last sentence.

what i understand is:

Your own sows and gilts get one live, after that regular boosters. Any gilts born get one live and regular boosters. When they start breeding just boosters. Why about new born boars. If you purchase a need boar I assume one live. Followed by boosters. Purchased sows one live followed by boosters. How can you do boosters prior yo breeding. You still have to give boosters to the gilt/sow and live to all piglets/boosters to all newborns don't you? Or do you mean that you Dont have purchased gilts and since the timing for boosters is.roughly similar. To the breeding schedule you wait with the booster until just before breeding?

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[jompa67]

I'm thinking about trying "group housing" for my sows. Does anyone have experience. Could it work in Thailand? Or is the heat a problem? In Europe and parts of the U.S., it is forbidden to keep sows in gestation crates. Allowing sows roam (in a group) must surely be a better anternativ, while it requires a smaller investment to build.

[IsaanAussie]

I'm thinking about trying "group housing" for my sows. Does anyone have experience. Could it work in Thailand? Or is the heat a problem? In Europe and parts of the U.S., it is forbidden to keep sows in gestation crates. Allowing sows roam (in a group) must surely be a better anternativ, while it requires a smaller investment to build.

My sows were always housing in batch groups of four, each with a seperate feeder bowl. The pens were 3 by 5 metres. No issues. Early in this topic is an attachment showing details including seperation partitions in the feeding area which I took out after a short while.

The temperature consideration is dependant on the space allowance per sow.

I moved each sow to a seperate pen about 4 or 5 days before farrowing. If the group is well established there are no fighting issues. In my case the sows were bred in their group pen and remained as a group at all times except farrowing and nursing.

[BurriAussie]

HI all

Love the the thread and have been reading for some time. The first 3 sows of 15 have just delivered 12+14 and 9 with 3 still born of which one I gave mouth to mouth and got him going but unfortunately he passed away 8hrs latter.

Boy did I learn a thing or two real fast, be prepared for the all night and no sleep as from the first to last piglet, it was over a period 8-10 hours.

The surgical equipment was quickly upgraded after the first sow and learning we were not really ready but got through it, eg sturdy clippers for the teeth not home nail clippers, big box to contain everything as the old "where is it" was repeated a few times, lots of towels,buckets for washing arms ready to help remove the piglets.

Our farm is of the main grid so everything runs of Solar Power bar the Hot boxes which I use a Generator for 2 hr sessions to keep the piglets warm for the first 24hrs.

We were washing the pens out 2 times a day but now the cool weather has arrived the family advise me that we can only wash once to prevent Flu, is this correct as last week one 3 month old just stopped eating and drinking and within 3 days he was dead.

Well thought I would share some information and advise welcome.

krup.

[IsaanAussie]

Thought I would drop a couple of photos on here showing two of the co-housed sow pens,and the aisle feeder system for each pen.

[thedoctor]

Hi

i was looking around to buy new piglets about 4 weeks ago and many of the places that had piglets for sale also had piglets that had sores on the pigs or spots

sort of like chickenpox,, in human terms. i think its parasites or worms !! am i correct

so i didnt buy the ones for sale from those people

eventually we found a mooban that had plenty fort sale and they all looked in good health, 40 day old when i got them,

so first weekend i bought 9 from one thai farm 1150 each weights about 6kg - 9kg each

all's good for a week, piper wormed them , injected them ivomec, started to feed them creep food and a baby milk mix.

7 days later i went back and bought 11 more from the farm just up the road,, 1150 bht same as before

these piglets looked a little bigger then the first lot. so about 8kg - 11kg but if what she told us is correct they were only 30 days old at the time i bought them

two days after getting the second lot ,,,,,,,

6 of the first lot of 9 died, leaving only three

but none of the second lot died, I got the vet

he injected a mixture of medication,, in thai language,, i dont know what it was the missus cannot tell me in english

it was a clear liquid and a milky liquide he mixed together, i told him what i had given and to him it was ok,

no more piglets died after that injection,

but one week later

scabs and sores apeared like the chickenpox i have mentioned before in this post,, all piglets have them and it doesnt look good

yes i have had them before and when the pig growes they disapere,, but i dont like to see scabby piglets,

i then re injected all remaining 14 with ivomec and now they are all together in one pen

truth is i feel like giving up, i just cant get it right, and i dont like animals to suffer

the vet says dont worry all the farms are the same at the moment many places are lossing their piglets around here,,

i try to keep good records for everything

we keep a clean farm,,

is this a common problem thats not a major issue ,,

most places iv seen have these sores or spots on their piglets but when i bought my new lot they were fine

only to develope one week later and 6 die

also

i told the relations not to eat the dead pigs !!! becaus they had been treated with medication,,

but they took the piglets and cooked them anyway,, my relations are still alive..

mmmmm ill keep my opinion on that one to myself at the moment,

Do you eat the pigs you have grown?

I cannot,,

regards M

[pigeonjake]

please understand me, im not trying to be clever as we are all still learing,

you say you bought these pigs all looked good and healthy,,??

so what do you do,,, you get them home and start injecting them,,!!

why if you thought they were healthy did you start to inject them,?

i will give one tip, when you are out and about round the many farms you have been visiting,

please disenfect everything when you get back, it could be you who are bringing things back and giving them to your own pigs,

also sometimes pigs in the space were they are born can get emune systems there, but as soon as you move them they are suseptable to things that could be around your place,

just my thoughts you must understand, im no vet, just the way i see it,

also sorry about my spelling,

jake

[pigeonjake]

sorry me again,

ive just read your post again, and i see that you gave milk powder,

can i ask was this cow milk replacer? thais call it tail milk,

i was told by our vet it wasnt any good, any small ones we buy in, i or mac my wife if im not at home, will give them baby milk, more xpencive but it does the job good,

sorry to here about your losses by the way,

jake

[thedoctor]

pigeonjake,

thank you,, the reason for my injecting was a precaution thing,

i belive most thai people do not tell the truth about what medication their piglets have had before we buy them, if any !!

so as a precation many people do this,

iv had piglets do this same thing with the sores and spots before and i was advised to start them off knowing what they have had so the only way is to start them off myself and not trust what people say,

some thai's have no records of birth, so when you ask they just make up some date ,,

not know what they have had ,re medication = worms parasites

it was baby milk powder same as you use,,from the pharmacy,

the missus came home last night and said .. i forgot to tell you but,, a farm in ban singkok last week lost 33 pigs in one day all were around 40kg,,

regards M no hard feelings