Pigs 101 (A Start)

[RedBullHorn]

Today I asked my professor for animal science, he's expert for swine production.

Some of his answers:

-modern genetic pig is fattened until 100kg because after that the FCR, ADG decreasing and more fat growth

- from a 100kg live weight you will get 75% pork parts for sale for a total of ~8500 THB.

- from this 75%, lean meat is around 45%

- the price for 25kg piglet (quite big, I have to ask him more details) is 2200 THB

good day clw, could you ask your professor afew of questions for me.? what would be the quickest amount of days from birth to 100kg that he has read about, seen. how many days to the 25kg mark in piglets .top end daily weight gain in finishers? what would be a good starting weight to wean the piglet from the mum, saying piglet is already eating food and drinking water?. these would be all top end pigs not the average numbers please.

I asked him the same questions about catfish farming and he said he is familiar with all my questions posted in an another thread..... he hasn't a clue... wait until he put in the farming capital to do it...until then... keep attending classes...

Note: If members were to read this thread from the page 1... you will know who is who... and to you too Sir... RIP...

Also I never had any doubts about the knowledge of you and other farmers on here.

So why do you? I just posted some general information, who might be helpful and informative for others.

You know everything since you were born, or what?

Next time if you don't have to contribute something useful, just shut up!!!!

People like me and the rest of the farming members (most of them) goes through thick and thin, trail and error without the privilege of studying in agriculture or animal science, we or rather I go through the stages of hands on experience and also to correct my past mistakes learning the hard ways.

I can search and get lots and lots of theories and high value information from the internet but all those theories are the result doing the practical. The real work is doing the job through hands on experience to obtain the result and experience.

Difference succumb stances of a farming site can result in totally different total gain and yield.

Yes I know everything since I was born... I knew if I cry hard enough I will get milk... I knew I am the most important thing in my parents life. I knew when I shit I'll get clean up... All in all I'm the best salesman as a baby.

I've contribute enough in this farming forum... While I made millions of THB and you are still... attending classes...

Professor...Ha! If only they can make it in the Real World... They will quit their job........

May the "force be with you~"

[revar]

Ok . Iv been quiet because i find some of the comments here regarding very old and established pigfarmers a bit offensive.

This is thailand. Meat means different things here unless you sell to western or high class restaurants. Most parts of the pig cost the same.

Since the customer is king thats what you work with, not western definitions. Jake, issaanausie ( happy to hear from u), cppfarm, etc all know this. They make/made good money in a difficult industry. Not as a hobby, but as a living. Thosewho want to start, listen to them.

Im now producing solely for buyers arranged by my feed supplier (perfeqc). Pigs which are party fed on betagro are bought at 3thb under farm price, pure perfeqc fed at farm price. They also want to buy my piglets but im not selling.

Im getting great fcr gettingthem from 12-110 average at 105-111 days

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

Curious Revar, how old were the pigs when you got them at 12kg.

From farrow to finish what is your figure?

I would guess you are pushing 4.5 to 5 months.

[revar]

I breed them myself. These were around 3weeks. I normally keep them at the sow 4 weeks, but she had 15 and I was afraid milk would run out.

On average we reach 110-120 kg ( the preferred weight of these buyers) in 4.25-4.5 months from farrowing.

About the milk btw. We had one sow die 2 days after farrowing. Another was still nursing her piglets at 4.5 weeks. We weaned these and gave her the piglets. Shes now been feeding piglets for almost 2 months and still strong on milk. Eats a lot though

[revar]

Nice to hear from you too again redbullhorn.

[pigeonjake]

ive found the weather can affect the growth rate too,

but you are doing well raver, i take my hat of to you mate,

as you have said its gard here to make a go of it, but the buyers that were starting to mess us about have done us a favour as like i said it gave me a kick up the ass to build the shop and cut them out, best thing we have done,

the slaughter house do a great job the pig goes there and its done ready for coming home in an hour, cut up into 3rds ribs and fully boned out, all we don then it leave it over night in an air coned room to cool it then in the morning im up early to cut it up ready for the shop,

most of the time the head,totters and tail are orderd for an offering, the insides my misses just bags them up ready for the shop,(they sell well)

its funny because like i said the buyers started messing us about so we were left with pigs well up in the 130,140 kilo range, but to be honest its a good wieght in my eyes and the others coming up behind this lot wont be far away the same size,

with getting our feed at the price we get it, it really dosnt matter keeping them on feed for the extra month as we get more pork, so it works out better and thats how we will be doing it, keeping them untill at least 120kilo,

as long as we all make money in our own ways as like the old saying there is more then one way to skin a cat,

we had a go at breeding our own, i just found it hit and miss, it was us we didnt know enough about the job, but i do have some cracking gilts through our farm, i look at them and think bloody hell you would make a good sow, but they go for slaughter,,shame,

can i ask chaing mai pig farmer,

you say you only have pedigree piglets and start of with these? so you dont cross at all?

i would of thought the cross bred vigour would do better then the pure breed for growing out,

i dont know that much, but going back to my pigeons, i was the top hand in my area and i inbred for stock pigeons then crossed to get the best racers, vigour,

i cant say ive seen pure bred large whites,landrace or durocks all been crosses,

i think ive had some very near pure bloods through the farm, like i say they would make some great sows,

but again like i said before, as long as we make a bit eh,

take care all

jake

[ChiangMaiPigFarmer]

Pedigree is the primary line that goes into cross breeding. The offspring come from peigree. You are exactly right. The best market pig is LW LR sow with DU father (or primarily DU with some PT mixed in).

Oh yes, making a little bit here or there is what it is about.

[thoongfoned]

jake, if you got some good gilts why don't you try and sell them as gilts to other farms in your area, or give the AI another go. I have seen some of the locals in the village ie AI. doing really well with no boar and doggy sperm... wife sister has a few pigs, all living in with the chickens and ducks ect. had one first time mum give birth the other week to 12 alive, still alive and looking ok. gilt was very small-young too. a man that lives next door to the sister also keeps about ten pigs, mud floors with off cuts of wood as fence, he mills rice so feeds them mainly this plus the odd bag of shop bought food, the last litter I saw was 17 alive and doing ok, he says he has not had a litter under 10, ever! no boar and 4 to 5 births a year. they get the sperm from the local amper "doctor", seen this laying in the plastic colder thingies for days on end till the "time is right"..........

on another note I would say the environment and the space will play a big part in piglets and finishers growth. this time of year the finishers must eat more? ie cooler weather.

the longer you keep the piglets with the mum the more expensive they become..... the more deaths you have the more expensive everything becomes........... time frames and good management.............. = more money in the bank.

good to see many different people posting on here, the more input the better, we all can learn.......

[pigeonjake]

jake, if you got some good gilts why don't you try and sell them as gilts to other farms in your area, or give the AI another go. I have seen some of the locals in the village ie AI. doing really well with no boar and doggy sperm... wife sister has a few pigs, all living in with the chickens and ducks ect. had one first time mum give birth the other week to 12 alive, still alive and looking ok. gilt was very small-young too. a man that lives next door to the sister also keeps about ten pigs, mud floors with off cuts of wood as fence, he mills rice so feeds them mainly this plus the odd bag of shop bought food, the last litter I saw was 17 alive and doing ok, he says he has not had a litter under 10, ever! no boar and 4 to 5 births a year. they get the sperm from the local amper "doctor", seen this laying in the plastic colder thingies for days on end till the "time is right"..........

on another note I would say the environment and the space will play a big part in piglets and finishers growth. this time of year the finishers must eat more? ie cooler weather.

the longer you keep the piglets with the mum the more expensive they become..... the more deaths you have the more expensive everything becomes........... time frames and good management.............. = more money in the bank.

good to see many different people posting on here, the more input the better, we all can learn.......

hi thoongfoned,

i think if i was going to go down that route again i would have to build more pens, and to me that is just buying more work, we have 15 pens here and we have at the moment, now youve got me,, about,lol, 110 pigs of ages from 1 month to 5 months, as we used to have 30 in and 30 out every month,

we just had a delivery or 20 piglets 5 days ago, i will say this new supplier of piglets they are good, a little older and bigger then i used to get and touch wood we havnt had 1 death from him,

as you know i can get piglets at 800 to a 1000bht but they are younger then these and we did have a couple in each batch die, i was looking it up and i think it was multy function sydrome they just waist away, no cure, i didnt let them get to the end, it was hammer time,

but like i say this new supplier they are good 1400bht each and he delivers and likes to have a chat and has told us should we every need him he is just on the end of the phone, we had one coughing my wife rang him as i used to put antibiotic in the feed, he told the wife what to get and were to get it and inject them,

i must admit i did like to see the sows with there babies, if you look back on here far enough you will see me with litters of piglets, i can remember the first every litter we had i had sat with her into the night saying to my misses im sure she is going to have them, but at 2am i gave up and went to bed, to go down in the morning to 6 piglets all suckling, i was great, i went back to the house and said to the wife come and have a look at this sow,,

but then on a sad note we had another one that should of been a week after her had 1 still born and no more inside her, we got the local pig expert to come and he had a feel, that sow after that was a complete and utter nutter, she would chance me out the pen trying to bite me, my wife said she big angree you she thonk you take her babys,

so she went, i couldnt risk my wife getting hurt,

i even made some farrowing crates, but never got round to using them as all the sows were sold off,

ill stick to getting them in as piglets and bringing them on, i love it, all our pigs are as tame as robins people laugh when they see me rubbing them and they lay down to get more like dogs, but its safer this way, if im sick or somthing else and the wife has to do them i know she will be safe with them, a big 100kilo pig can do some damage,

its funny you have me looking back, some of the funny things thats happend, before we had the house we stayed with mama in the house and one morning ive gone down to the pigs, ( yes i built the pig pens before the house) and there they were 10 half grown piglets in my veg patch, i thought how the f££k am i going to get them back, so i just got on with what i did every day, fill waters up, get feed ready clean, started to feed other pens, got the 10s feed and low and behold they were all in there pens looking at the feeder,,lol

right enough of my ramblings, bad spelling and all,,lol

jake

[thoongfoned]

jake sounds like are busy enough already then,breeding piglets are a gamble, if you can buy in well like you do..... good that you have not had any deaths, speaks for itself! just a shame if you have good looking gilts that's all.

the wifes gets her fair share of doggy births-numbers also, just the way it goes. if only we could get the timing right on 99 percent of AI....... the bank manager would be even more happy...........

you say that about 100kg pigs (damage) you should try and move a parity 10 sow with the hump, I like it when the new gilts come in, around 140 ish kg they look like miniature pigs....... have an area at the back of the farm for them, extra small boxes. at that size they can turn in the normal boxes.

glad that you have a market for you meat, the best way to go, don't have to deal with all them knockers..........

all the best.

[thoongfoned]

forgot to say. its the time of the year for the coughing..............

[pigeonjake]

forgot to say. its the time of the year for the coughing..............

yeh change in the weather,

another pig going tonight, we are up to a pig every 2 days now, i think the shop is the way to go,

i put flyers around the villages i had them printed and put them on trees and gates as the thais do,lol but it seams to be working people are starting to come from other villages, and many are still saying to the wife, we didnt know you were here selling pork, so word is still getting round, if we can get to a pig a day that would be fantastic,

[jompa67]

About coughing during cold season. What medicine are you given.

[Allgeier]

About coughing during cold season. What medicine are you given.

I give them straw to keep them busy and for the cold.

[pigeonjake]

ive been in this pig game a lot of years here in thailand and have allways used straw to bed my new piglets, if you look at my post history and pics you will see this, but it dosnt stop them from getting the odd cough,

anyway here is what i use, the injectable stuff in the bottle, followed by a b12 injection also the paket stuff i put on the feed,

please dont forget the wormer too, and ill add to this when you worm, please make sure you worm again 3 days after the first as the wormer dosnt kill the eggs that will be in the pig, so if you work 3 days after this will kill the worms that have just hatched,

pics,

no1 the new piglest from 7 days ago,

no2 my new strw bales

no3 pig injection stuff

no4 piglets fed and contented

no5 my clean up gang in the barn,,lol

right back out side to get my racing pigeons in and do some gardening

jake

[thoongfoned]

the company provides: Dynamutilin. produced by: Novartis. its sows friendly, been using it from day 1. instruction on dose ect on-in the box, English and thai.

[Allgeier]

I belive when the pigs eat and play inside the straw this push up the immunsystem from them and so there not get a cough.

But i will not let the chickens inside the pigbox or let the chicken run around so the chicken poo is everywhere. And also on the straw. And after the pig eat the straw where the chickens sit befor.

If i should use antibiotika i will start to think what i must change.

[revar]

Betamox la is amoxylin if im correct. A general antibiotic.

Iv used it also but now use penstrep.you use only half of that, is a bit more effective againstvthe same organisms and is also effective against streptokokken.

The vitamine b is used mostly to stimulate metabolism. I use it for runts and sows get a 10cc shot a week before farrowing

[revar]

Straw i use in the sow pen the first 5days and only in the piglet area the next week. Unless it gets real cold then i keep it longer.

[pigeonjake]

I belive when the pigs eat and play inside the straw this push up the immunsystem from them and so there not get a cough.

But i will not let the chickens inside the pigbox or let the chicken run around so the chicken poo is everywhere. And also on the straw. And after the pig eat the straw where the chickens sit befor.

If i should use antibiotika i will start to think what i must change.

how long have you been a pig farmer in this country?

you come along with your stupid f££king comments,,(If i should use antibiotika i will start to think what i must change.)

do you think you are going to keep pigs sucsesfully here in thailand without treating for different things?

if your thinking this you better start thinking again,

some of us have kept pigs a long time here and know a lot of the pitfalls, yet your here telling us we are doing it wrong giving antibiotika,,!

i called you a fool before, ill take that back,, your just a f££king google know it all,

and as for me keeping chickens running round, well we had this talk about 5 years ago, i was for it as they eat scorpians some are against it i can see the pros and cons of both, but unless you can keep wild birds out of your pens at all times then you havnt got a leg to stand on, my chickens only go on my land so i know were they have been, wild birds can go anywere and do so, to other pig farms for example that could have a very bad desease then come flying to yours, so ill stick to doing it my way that has served me well so far in all the years ive kept pigs here in thailand,

[Allgeier]

I belive when the pigs eat and play inside the straw this push up the immunsystem from them and so there not get a cough.

But i will not let the chickens inside the pigbox or let the chicken run around so the chicken poo is everywhere. And also on the straw. And after the pig eat the straw where the chickens sit befor.

If i should use antibiotika i will start to think what i must change.

how long have you been a pig farmer in this country?

you come along with your stupid f££king comments,,(If i should use antibiotika i will start to think what i must change.)

do you think you are going to keep pigs sucsesfully here in thailand without treating for different things?

if your thinking this you better start thinking again,

some of us have kept pigs a long time here and know a lot of the pitfalls, yet your here telling us we are doing it wrong giving antibiotika,,!

i called you a fool before, ill take that back,, your just a f££king google know it all,

and as for me keeping chickens running round, well we had this talk about 5 years ago, i was for it as they eat scorpians some are against it i can see the pros and cons of both, but unless you can keep wild birds out of your pens at all times then you havnt got a leg to stand on, my chickens only go on my land so i know were they have been, wild birds can go anywere and do so, to other pig farms for example that could have a very bad desease then come flying to yours, so ill stick to doing it my way that has served me well so far in all the years ive kept pigs here in thailand,

How many bottle of beer you drunk when you wrote this?

Drinking and writing are not friends together.

My Grandfather was a carpenter. And this make me now to a carpenter or what?

I know Ricefarmer there make 300 Kg Rice/Rai and there farming many years. But i know also a organic Farmer and he make Rice for not to long time and he get 600 or 900 Kg/Rai.

But i hope your wife teached you already the differant between fat and meat.

Maybe are another opinion from pigfarmer here about chickenpoo inside the pigbox? Or everybody let the chicken run around and let them sxxx everywhere. And after have visitor and the chickensh.. everywhere.

To use antibiotika this means in my eyes the pig cant handle the sickness by them self. I not have so many pigs, so i can change somethink to keep the pig so there not need antibiotika.

This can be also come from the breed. Or not?

Edited November 25, 2015 by Allgeier

[IsaanAussie]

The important thing here is to develop a healthy environment and production system for your pig farm. Mine was based on prevention by using probiotics and I rarely had to use any medication. For me that came with experience, some good and some bad. I adapted a lot of ideas I got from internet research. Some I got from the local health and agricultural officers, some from old timers who had farmed pigs "naturally" in the area for years. Its all about achieving a balanced operation that works for you and delivers a saleable product at minimum cost.

I will add one important point. Regardless of your methods you must achieve a stress free environment for the pigs. If you can't do that, then your pigs will not thrive.

Edited November 25, 2015 by IsaanAussie

[Allgeier]

I will add one important point. Regardless of your methods you must achieve a stress free environment for the pigs. If you can't do that, then your pigs will not thrive.

You cut the tail from the piglet or not? Because if there stressfree, there should be no reason to cut it.

This is for me a indicator and i dont cut the tail.

[IsaanAussie]

I will add one important point. Regardless of your methods you must achieve a stress free environment for the pigs. If you can't do that, then your pigs will not thrive.

You cut the tail from the piglet or not? Because if there stressfree, there should be no reason to cut it.

This is for me a indicator and i dont cut the tail.

There is a very real reason to cut the tails. Pigs are intelligent and inquisitive and tail biting can occur. The damage that causes and resultant stress is much more severe than the quick removal of a new born piglet tail.

We had customers that preferred the tails not be cut so for them we did not remove them, but there was always a risk of tail biting. As normal practice I removed the tails as it caused little discomfort.

What I was talking about as stress has more to do with herdsmanship and the way you treat your animals. The conditions they are kept under, the way they are transported and ultimately slaughtered.

[Allgeier]

When the pig have some 'playground" like straw there should be normaly now reasen to cut the tail. The tail is the inducator how the pigs feel.

But of course, when the pigs stay only 21 days with the sow, only concrete floor and nothink to play there will be bored and start to play with the tail from the sister and brother and the Problem start.

In my eyes its not appropiate for the pig to cut the tail. There is only a commercial reason to cut the tail because to keep the risk of infektions small. Normal thinking today, profit is all and nobody care about the animal.

Have some, but where there are?

[farmerjo]

Long time ago my grandad use to hang about 10mm chain from the girders to about a foot off the ground and the pigs would chew on the chains to keep occupied.

[Allgeier]

Long time ago my grandad use to hang about 10mm chain from the girders to about a foot off the ground and the pigs would chew on the chains to keep occupied.

And also today it is a way to keep them busy. Wood, balls, dry gras, straw to keep them busy and not play with the tail from the friends of them.

[IsaanAussie]

At times I wonder what motives people have when they post here. I am always interested in knowing more about "actual" pig farming experiences in Thailand. It is fairly obvious to those who have had their hands dirty that the trick is to keep your finger nails short and clean. I dry muck out my pens and the muck goes into the compost system where it adds value to my farm. The only use I have for BS is as food for the worms in our worm beds.

[pigeonjake]

ill try and say soething about this, its a fine line between overcrowding and letting the pigs run about,

you dont want them running all over the place playing else they are running off the feed you are giving them,

look at it this way if i was to eat a lot and do nothing i would gain weight,!

thats what i want my pig to do, gain weight, not run around running off what in giving them,

i dont think my pigs are bored, they have a little play with each other, but most of the time they are eating and then sleeping just like i want them to do,

i too take out my <deleted> dry, but i do wash out after that as the wash water goes into the pond and helps feed the fish, we put 1000 blah duck in every 4 or so months, one lot out one lot in, extra money and fed most of the time for free, we do feed them a little as you can see on youtube,

i too have a great manure heep i call it my black gold, i dont sell any just yet i use it on my veg patch

[IsaanAussie]

My wash water is treated in a series on septic tanks with what solids remaining pumped out and composted. I used rice hulls for bedding rather than straw. Lots in common.