Child Porn On Sukhumvit Stirs Outrage

[Pi Sek]

All this to-ing and fro-ing is, to be quite honest, irrelevant and boring. I think the vast majority of us are all in agreement - child porn is not acceptable and should not be sold. Demand and supply means there is a market, which must operate on the black market due to its illicit nature.

Criminal persecution will lead to a drop in supply (by how much depends on the ferocity of the persecution) - therefore an ongoing criminal persecution of this would raise the price and lower the market quantity available. Having it much harder to find and purchase will affect the demand. The fact that a child sex tourist must look and ask around means (s)he is less likely to end up buying it than if it is on open display, and it would probably affect the sales figures more than a 100% price hike.

As I've already said, there is something you can do - report it to at the police station. Not at the police box who are taking back-handers from the vendors, not to the tourist police who have no authority - go to the station and ask to make a report. Whether they can be bothered or otherwise, the police have a legal obligation to make a report. If you get the report, make a copy and take it to the public prosecutor. If you don't, note the number on the shirt of the policeman who has failed to perform his police duty and take it to the public prosecutor. The public prosecutor will act on your complaint.

Is it your duty to do so? Yes, in my book. Are you at risk? No, if you do exactly as above. It will get investigated and you won't likely be called for as a witness - you've already made a statement. The eye-witness accounts of the police are of more use in a courtroom than your spoken statement anyway. You are at risk if you try and kick up a fuss with the cops on the ground.

[jcbangkok]

Goes to show that anything goes in Thailand as long as there isn't a serious and looong overdue police reform. In the meantime, criminals are still allowed to join or remain on the police force all over the country and wear the cockroach brown uniform which a very few deserve to wear. It's more of a crime syndicate than a police force.

I think the first thing the government needs to do is pay the police considerably more and even more so as they grow in seniority and rank. Then as more people look to this position as one of respect and with ability to earn an honest and proud living ... they will have replacements for all the ones who get fired and lose all benefits for if they are convicted of crimes while in uniform.

But make no mistake about it ,,, many police in general are corrupt across the world. They just are no so blatant about it as in Thailand and certainly wouldn't risk losing their job for a couple bucks like they do in Thailand and other developing nations. The power police have and the gang they are taught to be part as well as the silence of snitching on a fellow brother is always going to breed corruption/ dishonesty when it come to the people they are supposed to serve. The police in general could care less about retrieving your stolen property ... they just want to lock people up and your stolen property is a means to do that. When a cop pulls you over for speeding (or anything else) in the US, they almost always ask where are you heading ... not because they care or want to make chit chat but this is an investigative technique to get you talking and catch you in a lie, They are not here to serve the public, it is them against everyone else. Of course this is not always the case but now-a-days it is more true than not since police are run like military units trained to fight and distrust the people they are supposed to be serving. In Los Angeles County a deputy cannot work the streets until he has served a couple years working the jails ... this helps him to be programed to believe everyone he talks to is a dishonest criminal.

If your a victim of a crime in the US, you best be sure you don;t have any unpaid tickets because when the cops come out to talk to you the first things they will do is get your ID and run a check on you. Very common in the US to report a crime and be hauled off to jail yourself. I believe there is no country in the world with more of its population locked up than the USA.

Anyway, this is all off topic except to point out that there are problems dealing with cops in most countries. At least in Thailand you are left alone by them the VAST majority of the time unless you are doing something really stupid or being blatant about doing something wrong. And it is nice to be able to spend a couple dollars to avoid a traffic ticket then have to pay hundreds plus fees and have your already radically expensive insurance go further up. But of course there is a downside too.

[Jingthing]

Back to reality. Like I said, many thousands of people have seen what I saw (confirmations here) in Pattaya. Mostly foreigners probably. What percentage do you reckon made a report about this? I reckon a tiny fraction of ONE PERCENT, meaning almost everyone living or visiting Pattaya is a "worthless piece of trash" according to the rude accusers. This obligation to report thing is obviously not a legal requirement, certainly not of foreigners. I understand many people would FEEL the obligation to report but a subset of those people may feel the risks aren't worth the benefit especially considering it is obvious the police know about it already (it going on very close to the main police station). We are all different. For me and I reckon almost everyone of the THOUSANDS of people who walked by those tables, we did not feel compelled to get involved in the mess. Does that make people who do put their necks out good people? Yes, I think so. But it also doesn't make the vast majority that don't report worthless pieces of trash just because they didn't. I reckon the vast majority of members on this board, just like the passing masses as they are just a random crowd, also would not have reported this (again it was so open it is OBVIOUS it is already well known to the authorities), so the accusers here are in effect calling almost everyone on this board a worthless piece of trash. It's a position, they are welcome to it.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[gotlost]

How sickening is that before I opened this thread I knew that there would be people arguing in defense of the child pornography sellers? You are a class act BW and gotlost

I guess there is not bunch that offends you guys. Jesus.

We know why TV did away with red and green.

[elliss]

It is the nastier side of the human condition.

I have just noticed that there are 172 people viewing this topic and wonder why.

Right on;

This has been going on since as long as i can remmember and that goes back to the early 80's, so this is nothing new.

A thai has little, if any morality, when it comes to making a $$

lets not forget . thai people do not care about the opinions of

furkng foreigners .

so you so self opinionated ssow important folk , living in a foreign country .

go back to where you are ,also not wanted .

[Pi Sek]

lets not forget . thai people do not care about the opinions of

furkng foreigners .

so you so self opinionated ssow important folk , living in a foreign country .

go back to where you are ,also not wanted .

Usually the ones that can spell do. They are sick of their country being laughed at.

The ones in the revenue department certainly do, too.

[hyperdimension]

There are far bigger problems in Thailand to be outraged about than some obscene pornography being sold on some streets. To those who say that they should report it as if they witnessed a murder, what is the incentive for someone to do such reporting? Most people would do nothing because they would not directly gain benefit if they went out of their way to take action (or there is no direct or immediate threat to their safety if what they witnessed continued to go on).

A far greater issue to be outraged or worried about is the ongoing violence in the country in which innocent people are killed or seriously injured, and the fact that such a large proportion of the country's population support the terrorists and criminals who incited it.

Edited October 9, 2010 by hyperdimension

[Jingthing]

Yep, like the tourist police told a poster here who tried to report this in Pattaya, all that would happen is a 200 baht fine and they would be out there doing the same thing the next day. Very little incentive indeed.

BTW, I reckon the tourist police who didn't want to follow up on this report and didn't are ALSO worthless pieces of trash who btw according to the rude accusers would also be promoting and supporting the kiddie porn. It seems like Pattaya is indeed like Sodom and Gomorrah that way ... It's surprising it isn't even more smelly here, with most everyone here being a walking worthless piece of trash.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[Pi Sek]

Then DO NOT REPORT IT TO THE TOURIST POLICE (for the third time!). Report it to people who care, and who can and will do something. This means the public prosecutor, which needs a documented statement to police before they are mandated to kick up a problem. And they most definitely will.

[Jingthing]

Then DO NOT REPORT IT TO THE TOURIST POLICE (for the third time!). Report it to people who care, and who can and will do something. This means the public prosecutor, which needs a documented statement to police before they are mandated to kick up a problem. And they most definitely will.

That's interesting. BTW, what is your authority to have so much confidence about that? In Pattaya? Why didn't the tourist police SUGGEST that if it would really do something? Do you think the tourist police here are simply ignorant?

IF, and I do mean IF what you say is actually true, then you have added something perhaps of value to this discussion and I applaud you. I don't put you in the same bin at all as the troll baiting tossers of worthless piece of trash accusations. You sound very sincere.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[jcbangkok]

Then DO NOT REPORT IT TO THE TOURIST POLICE (for the third time!). Report it to people who care, and who can and will do something. This means the public prosecutor, which needs a documented statement to police before they are mandated to kick up a problem. And they most definitely will.

I am afraid you are speaking to somebody who has made it clear they don't want the child porn gone or at the very least will not lift a finger to do anything to help --- he only want to talk non stop about it.

[Jingthing]

Then DO NOT REPORT IT TO THE TOURIST POLICE (for the third time!). Report it to people who care, and who can and will do something. This means the public prosecutor, which needs a documented statement to police before they are mandated to kick up a problem. And they most definitely will.

I am afraid you are speaking to somebody who has made it clear they don't want the child porn gone or at the very least will not lift a finger to do anything to help --- he only want to talk non stop about it.

You are lying again. When did I EVER imply that I support this trade or don't want it gone? What is your agenda making this about the innocent foreign bystanders rather than the actual criminals?

Edited October 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[jcbangkok]

There are far bigger problems in Thailand to be outraged about than some obscene pornography being sold on some streets. To those who say that they should report it as if they witnessed a murder, what is the incentive for someone to do such reporting? Most people would do nothing because they would not directly gain benefit if they went out of their way to take action (or there is no direct or immediate threat to their safety if what they witnessed continued to go on).

A far greater issue to be outraged or worried about is the ongoing violence in the country in which innocent people are killed or seriously injured, and the fact that such a large proportion of the country's population support the terrorists and criminals who incited it.

What is the incentive to report a murder? Why would that be different than reporting the openly displayed and sold CHILD porn on the main tourist streets?

[jcbangkok]

Then DO NOT REPORT IT TO THE TOURIST POLICE (for the third time!). Report it to people who care, and who can and will do something. This means the public prosecutor, which needs a documented statement to police before they are mandated to kick up a problem. And they most definitely will.

I am afraid you are speaking to somebody who has made it clear they don't want the child porn gone or at the very least will not lift a finger to do anything to help --- he only want to talk non stop about it.

You are lying again. When did I EVER imply that I support this trade? What is your agenda making this about the foreign bystanders rather than the actual criminals?

Can you read?

And when did I ever lie this time or the first?

Your own words in this thread stated that you will do nothing if you see child porn openly sold except for talk about it here in this forum.

If I do see it openly displayed in Pattaya, I plan to do absolutely NOTHING except to report here

Edited October 9, 2010 by jcbangkok

[Jingthing]

Then DO NOT REPORT IT TO THE TOURIST POLICE (for the third time!). Report it to people who care, and who can and will do something. This means the public prosecutor, which needs a documented statement to police before they are mandated to kick up a problem. And they most definitely will.

I am afraid you are speaking to somebody who has made it clear they don't want the child porn gone or at the very least will not lift a finger to do anything to help --- he only want to talk non stop about it.

You are lying again. When did I EVER imply that I support this trade? What is your agenda making this about the foreign bystanders rather than the actual criminals?

Can you read?

And when did I ever lie this time or the first?

Your own words in this thread stated that you will do nothing if you see child porn openly sold except for talk about it here in this forum.

Not reporting (for the many reasons many posters have stated including me) is NOT the same thing as supporting/approving/promoting. And you aren't fooling anyone, you know that. You are simply looking to inflame here and obviously enjoy insulting people and calling them names like worthless pieces of trash.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

What is the incentive to report a murder? Why would that be different than reporting the openly displayed and sold CHILD porn on the main tourist streets?

For one thing, the murderer if caught would actually go to prison (well unless they were well connected, etc.), rather than get a 200 baht fine to go out and murder tomorrow. To equate these two things, an actual murder with porn videos sold with full knowledge and likely financial participation of police is simply ridiculous. This isn't the west and this isn't our country. This is Thailand, one of the most corrupt countries in the world. To think foreigners are ever going to make a dent in that is beyond naive.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[jcbangkok]

Jing clearly you cannot read or cannot comprehend the meaning of the word "or"

2nd, you can make all the excuses in the world why you will not do anything to help, even though there have been vast suggestions of what you can easily do with zero risk to yourself to help stop or slow the the open display/sales of CHILD porn on main tourist streets and why this would be a good thing but in my mind and I believe a number of others, we have come to our own conclusions of why you are taking this strong stance,.

Edited October 9, 2010 by jcbangkok

[Pi Sek]

Then DO NOT REPORT IT TO THE TOURIST POLICE (for the third time!). Report it to people who care, and who can and will do something. This means the public prosecutor, which needs a documented statement to police before they are mandated to kick up a problem. And they most definitely will.

That's interesting. BTW, what is your authority to have so much confidence about that? In Pattaya? Why didn't the tourist police SUGGEST that if it would really do something? Do you think the tourist police here are simply ignorant?

IF, and I do mean IF what you say is actually true, then you have added something perhaps of value to this discussion and I applaud you. I don't put you in the same bin at all as the disgusting tossers of worthless piece of trash accusations. You sound very sincere.

I will admit, I don't know the SOPs in Pattaya. But if it's the same as Samui, Phuket, Hua Hin, Surat Thani, Nakhon Sri Thammarat, Narathiwat, Had Yai and Songkhla - then go to the public prosecutor. I am not an authority of any kind, but my direct employer is a former judge and public prosecutor in Bangkok (so is Thai, by the way), as well as a former senior associate in a California law firm (which sounds good, but is essentially irrelevant). I am very sincere in what I say - the best way to check is talk to the PP's office before you make your police report.

My opinion of the tourist police that didn't do anything - well, it's best not posted here, but suffice to say I do not think they are doing their job to the best of their ability. The fact is that the police don't know the law very well - not to mention the tourist police. (This isn't a dig at the police training, as knowledge of the law is beyond the scope of their mandate - that's the PP's job!)

[Jingthing]

Jing clearly you cannot read or cannot comprehend the meaning of the word "or"

2nd, you can make all the excuses in the world why you will not do anything to help, even though there have been vast suggestions of what you can easily do with little risk to stop or slow the the open display of CHILD porn and why this would be a good thing but in my mind and I believe a number of others, we have come to our own conclusions of why you are taking this strong stance,.

What strong stand is that? Your posts are such trolls, you won't quit in your outrageous personal attack implications. For non-trolls, why would I have tried to make this a PUBLIC ISSUE many months ago here on this board if I thought anything to do with kiddie porn was a good thing? By that logic, all the other many thousands of people who have seen this and not reported are also supporters of kiddie porn. This JC guy has reached a new low in filthy accusations, and I don't understand why the mods allow him to continue in this line of unfounded, irrational personal attacks. I had thought calling other members names like PIECES OF TRASH was against forum rules, not to mention making outrageous and totally unfounded personal insinuations, but apparently not.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[jcbangkok]

Jing clearly you cannot read or cannot comprehend the meaning of the word "or"

2nd, you can make all the excuses in the world why you will not do anything to help, even though there have been vast suggestions of what you can easily do with little risk to stop or slow the the open display of CHILD porn and why this would be a good thing but in my mind and I believe a number of others, we have come to our own conclusions of why you are taking this strong stance,.

What strong stand is that? You are such a troll, you won't quit in your outrageous personal attack implications. For non-trolls, why would I have tried to make this a PUBLIC ISSUE many months ago here on this board if I thought anything to do with kiddie porn was a good thing? By that logic, all the other many thousands of people who have seen this and not reported are also supporters of kiddie porn. This JC guy has reached a new low in filthy accusations, and don't understand why the mods allow him to continue in this line of unfounded, irrational personal attacks.

What strong stand ... You made the following statement in regards to CHILD porn being openly displayed for sale including using all caps for the word NOTHING and putting the word absolutely in front of it. The strong stand I am reposting below ...

If I do see it openly displayed in Pattaya, I plan to do absolutely NOTHING except to report here

Edited October 9, 2010 by jcbangkok

[Jingthing]

Jing clearly you cannot read or cannot comprehend the meaning of the word "or"

2nd, you can make all the excuses in the world why you will not do anything to help, even though there have been vast suggestions of what you can easily do with little risk to stop or slow the the open display of CHILD porn and why this would be a good thing but in my mind and I believe a number of others, we have come to our own conclusions of why you are taking this strong stance,.

What strong stand is that? You are such a troll, you won't quit in your outrageous personal attack implications. For non-trolls, why would I have tried to make this a PUBLIC ISSUE many months ago here on this board if I thought anything to do with kiddie porn was a good thing? By that logic, all the other many thousands of people who have seen this and not reported are also supporters of kiddie porn. This JC guy has reached a new low in filthy accusations, and don't understand why the mods allow him to continue in this line of unfounded, irrational personal attacks.

What strong stand ... You made the following statement in regards to CHILD porn being openly displayed for sale including using all caps for the word NOTHING and putting the word absolutely in front of it. The strong stand I am reposting below ...

If I do see it openly displayed in Pattaya, I plan to do absolutely NOTHING except to report here

You took that statement COMPLETELY out of context of all of my posts, but I stand by it. I personally won't be reporting, not in corrupt Pattaya anyway. That is my free choice and doesn't make me a worthless piece of trash. I do support the small minority of people who might want to take action about this, but it won't be me, I won't get involved in this, just like almost every other witness of this in Pattaya, perhaps hundreds of thousands of "trash" people. If I did report it here on TV, and if I had been allowed to do so many months ago, perhaps more optimistic (that something would be done) activist type people WOULD have been reported it to the authorities. That simply isn't me, and it isn't most people, but that was as far as I was willing to go in the context of corrupt Pattaya.

If you are disgustingly distorting this to make people believe that I support or approve of the trade, I suppose I need to state clearly, no I don't approve of it, of course I don't. Satisfied? Of course not, because you are on a trollish vendetta against me and others who won't report, rather than the actual criminals.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[jcbangkok]

kind of interesting to consider that in prison, even in Thailand, a murderer is not looked down upon as is a person in prison for child abuse related crimes especially if they involved sex with kids. You can almost be assured somebody in prison is going to get a serious beating or killing if it gets out they are there for crimes to do with any kind of sex with kids. And the Thai law is clear that you can receive a prison sentence for selling or distributing child porn.

[jcbangkok]

What strong stand is that? You are such a troll, you won't quit in your outrageous personal attack implications. For non-trolls, why would I have tried to make this a PUBLIC ISSUE many months ago here on this board if I thought anything to do with kiddie porn was a good thing? By that logic, all the other many thousands of people who have seen this and not reported are also supporters of kiddie porn. This JC guy has reached a new low in filthy accusations, and don't understand why the mods allow him to continue in this line of unfounded, irrational personal attacks.

What strong stand ... You made the following statement in regards to CHILD porn being openly displayed for sale including using all caps for the word NOTHING and putting the word absolutely in front of it. The strong stand I am reposting below ...

If I do see it openly displayed in Pattaya, I plan to do absolutely NOTHING except to report here

You took that statement COMPLETELY out of context of all of my posts, but I stand by it. I personally won't be reporting, not in corrupt Pattaya anyway. That is my free choice and doesn't make me a worthless piece of trash. If you are disgustingly distorting this to make people believe that I support or approve of the trade, I suppose I need to state clearly, no I don't approve of it, of course I don't. Satisfied? Of course not, because you are on a trollish vendetta against me and others who won't report, rather than the actual criminals.

No I didn't take it our of context and that is verified in your above post that you stand by the statement.

[jcbangkok]

The entire post in full ...

I reckon I should check out beach road again in Pattaya to see if they have heard about the publicity. If I do see it openly displayed in Pattaya, I plan to do absolutely NOTHING except to report here about it, as if it is there, very near the main Pattaya POLICE station, the police already know it is there (with all that implies).

You are not being truthful Jing about things being taken out of context just as you are not being truthful in saying I have lied a number of times.

[Jingthing]

No I didn't take it our of context and that is verified in your above post that you stand by the statement.

You did take it out context, dearie. But I feel my reply puts it in more context. I won't report to police, but I ALSO do NOT support or approve of the trade (just like most of all the innocent passersbys on the street who ALSO chose not to get involved in this mess), quite obviously to anyone but trolls. You are like a snake trying to connect the two things as a fact, not reporting being equal to support/approval but that is a BIG LIE.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

The entire post in full ...

I reckon I should check out beach road again in Pattaya to see if they have heard about the publicity. If I do see it openly displayed in Pattaya, I plan to do absolutely NOTHING except to report here about it, as if it is there, very near the main Pattaya POLICE station, the police already know it is there (with all that implies).

You are not being truthful Jing about things being taken out of context just as you are not being truthful in saying I have lied a number of times.

I meant the context of all of my posts (as I already said). Not once, not ever did I imply I support this trade. That disgusting accusation came from you. From your obviously dirty mind. I did as much as I felt comfortable in doing about this, I wanted to post about it months ago and was denied, and now I have reported the situation that I had witnessed in Pattaya to the public here, and offered to do so in future if I see it again. I will leave it to more activist people to actually report to authorities. On this thread, they have been given some ideas that may or may not be helpful in doing so, that certainly has value. I applaud them especially if it does something, but it won't be me. It seems my "crime" here is just being honest, being a voice of the silent majority who has seen this, hates it, but indeed aren't going to get personally involved in a messy situation in a very corrupt country. But I do think bringing it to light as did the press in the OP is doing something, not nothing, (and also the NUMEROUS eye witness reports like mine) but not as much as the moral enforcers of foreign behavior would demand, so be it. I agree press about it isn't enough, and I fully support any activists that want to get personally involved in this, but again the vast majority of people who will not get so involved, are NOT worthless pieces of trash, nor does it mean they support the trade.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[jcbangkok]

And Jing, to answer your other question about why a few months ago you wanted to start a topic on child porn you see on the street ... I have no idea since you seem to want to take no action to stop it except for talk about here on Thai Visa. My guess is that is the reason the Mods told you that you couldn't create a thread to talk about the child porn you see on the streets openly sold.

Edited October 9, 2010 by jcbangkok

[jcbangkok]

The entire post in full ...

I reckon I should check out beach road again in Pattaya to see if they have heard about the publicity. If I do see it openly displayed in Pattaya, I plan to do absolutely NOTHING except to report here about it, as if it is there, very near the main Pattaya POLICE station, the police already know it is there (with all that implies).

You are not being truthful Jing about things being taken out of context just as you are not being truthful in saying I have lied a number of times.

I meant the context of all of my posts (as I already said). Not once, not ever did I imply I support this trade. That disgusting accusation came from you. From your obviously dirty mind. I did as much as I felt comfortable in doing about this, I wanted to post about it months ago and was denied, and now I have reported the situation that I had witnessed in Pattaya to the public here, and offered to do so in future if I see it again. I will leave it to more activist people to actually report to authorities. On this thread, they have been given some ideas that may or may not be helpful in doing so, that certainly has value. I applaud them especially if it does something, but it won't be me. It seems my "crime" here is just being honest, being a voice of the silent majority who has seen this, hates it, but indeed aren't going to get personally involved in a messy situation in a very corrupt country. But I do think bringing it to light as did the press in the OP is doing something, not nothing, (and also the NUMEROUS eye witness reports like mine) but not as much as the moral enforcers of foreign behavior would demand, so be it.

Jing, I believe once again you are being dishonest ... please show me where I accused you of supporting Child Porn. I have made it clear that I believe responsibility should be accepted by those who claim to find child porn horrible that see it being sold openly and take no action. Accountability is certainly much different than supporting,

Edited October 9, 2010 by jcbangkok

[Jingthing]

And Jing, to answer your other question about why a few months ago you wanted to start a topic on child porn you see on the street ... I have no idea since you seem to want to take no action to stop it except for talk about here on Thai Visa. My guess is that is the reason the Mods told you that you couldn't create a thread to talk about the child porn you see on the streets openly sold.

They denied it clearly because it is a hot button issue that encourages flaming, as you have proven so effectively. I wanted to report it here so that it could be brought to light and hopefully something done about it. By someone else, not me. I am sorry, that is as far as I am comfortable going on this, I know you don't approve of that, but it doesn't mean I approve of the trade. My interest in at least making it public was although nothing to you, still MORE than over 99 percent of the public. Edited October 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[Pi Sek]

Oh come on children, please!

Jingthing - it's your choice whether you report it to police or the public prosecutor or whoever. I personally would and would suggest that you should (as I think that jcbangkok suggests a little more strongly).

jcbangkok - there are many reasons to report or not report a crime. I would report this, others wouldn't for fear of reprisals from systems that they don't fully understand and might not be watertight... that's understandable.