Children Owning Land

[Neeranam]

I want to buy some land for my child. How old do they have to be? 18, 16?

[Sumitr Man]

They can be any age [for them to be registered as the owner of land] - but if they're under 20 they're considered a minor and subject to a guardian relationship - wherein lies the problem

SM

[Neeranam]

They can be any age [for them to be registered as the owner of land]- but if they're under 20 they're considered a minor and subject to a guardian relationship - wherein lies the problem

SM 

Could you elaborate on the problems please. Are you saying that the Thai Mother, for example, could claim the land?

[terdsak_12]

Seems to be the case.

[Sumitr Man]

SECTION 1569 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand

A person exercising parental power is the legal representative of the child.

SECTION 1571 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand

Parental power includes the management of the property of the child and such management shall be exercised with the same care as that of a person of ordinary prudence

[NOTE: my underlining]

SECTION 1598/3 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand

A guardian is the legal representative of the ward. ... Section 1571 shall apply mutais mutandis...

So, all in all, you want to make sure you have parental/guardian control. However, in the case of luk-krung children, the courts have often awarded parental control/gurdianship to the Thai mother.

As such - therein lies the problem...

SM

[Sumitr Man]

BTW - Have you ever meet a person of ordinary prudence in Thailand

[davethailand]

I believe there is'nt an age requirement as long as its a sand pit.

[billd766]

I am married with everything registered in my wife's name.

I am wondering what would happen if she died before me. We have a 1 years old son and I would like to hold the land, house etc for him when he comes of age. He is registered as my son and my wife and I are legally married and I am a little concerned what would happen should she die first.

Does anybody have any idea?

[Sumitr Man]

SECTION 1566 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand

...

...parental power is exercised by the father, or the mother [as the case may be], in any of the following cases:

(1) the mother, or father, is dead;

(2) it is uncertain whether the mother, or father, is living or dead;

(3) the mother, or the father, has been adjudged incompetent or quasi-incompetent;

(4) the mother, or the father, is placed in a hospital by reason of mental infirmity;

(5) the parentla power is granted to the father or mother by an order of the Court;

(6) the father and mother have come to such an agreement as provided by law that it can be made.

[Neeranam]

QUOTE

SECTION 1566 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand

...

...parental power is exercised by the father, or the mother [as the case may be], in any of the following cases:

(1) the mother, or father, is dead;

(2) it is uncertain whether the mother, or father, is living or dead;

(3) the mother, or the father, has been adjudged incompetent or quasi-incompetent;

(4) the mother, or the father, is placed in a hospital by reason of mental infirmity;

(5) the parentla power is granted to the father or mother by an order of the Court;

(6) the father and mother have come to such an agreement as provided by law that it can be made.

Interesting! thanks a lot for that Sumitr man.

So if I got divorced, my wife couldn't sell the land?? It would remain in my child's name?

[Sumitr Man]

SECTION 1569 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand

A person exercising parental power is the legal representative of the child.

SECTION 1571 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand

Parental power includes the management of the property of the child and such management shall be exercised with the same care as that of a person of ordinary prudence

[NOTE: my underlining]

SECTION 1598/3 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand

A guardian is the legal representative of the ward. ... Section 1571 shall apply mutais mutandis...

So, all in all, you want to make sure you have parental/guardian control. However, in the case of luk-krung children, the courts have often awarded parental control/gurdianship to the Thai mother.

As such - therein lies the problem...

SM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Discussing the above provisions with a friend of my yesterday evening, they concurred that the above apply in normal circumstances. However, insofar as land is concerned, they directed me to Section 1574 of the Civil and Commercial Code - and in particular sub-sections (1) & (2). These read as follows:

A person exercising parental power cannot eneter into any of the following acts with regard to the property of a minor except with the permission of the Court:

(1) selling, exchanging, sale with right of redemption, letting out property on hire-purchase, mortgaging, releasing mortgage to mortgagor or transfering the right of mortgage on immovable property [land] or on mortgaged movable property;

(2) extinguishing the whole or a part of the real right of the minor on immovable property;

....

(5) letting immovable property for a period exceeeding 3 years;

...

(7) making a loan of money

...

(13)...

So it would appear that my comments above were wrong in this case and that there are certain safe-guards in place.

SM

Edited July 27, 2005 by Sumitr Man

[Sumitr Man]

QUOTE

SECTION 1566 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand

...

...parental power is exercised by the father, or the mother [as the case may be], in any of the following cases:

(1) the mother, or father, is dead;

(2) it is uncertain whether the mother, or father, is living or dead;

(3) the mother, or the father, has been adjudged incompetent or quasi-incompetent;

(4) the mother, or the father, is placed in a hospital by reason of mental infirmity;

(5) the parentla power is granted to the father or mother by an order of the Court;

(6) the father and mother have come to such an agreement as provided by law that it can be made.

Interesting! thanks a lot for that Sumitr man.

So if I got divorced, my wife couldn't sell the land?? It would remain in my child's name?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Following a discussion with my firend last night, in order for your wife to be able to sell the land, she would need an order from the Court approving such - otherwise she would be in breach of Section 1574 of the CCC <--- but I would check that with your lawyer if I were you.

SM

[TokyoT]

I was actually thinking a posting a thread along these same lines. But it will still be a year or so before I am in the finical position to make any kind of purchase. So this thread has made for some interesting reading.

Along these lines is it possible to form a legal trust in Thailand that would control the holdings/land until the child reached an age outlined in the trust? As many are aware young adults many times are also not yet capable of making the best decisions (particularly looking at long term effects). So I would like to establish a trust if possible to delay any possible sale or liquidation until the child is even older then what is outlined by law.

[Bobcat]

The concept of a legal trust does not exist under Thai law, as it does, for example, under UK or Australian law.

[billd766]

SECTION 1569 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand

A person exercising parental power is the legal representative of the child.

SECTION 1571 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand

Parental power includes the management of the property of the child and such management shall be exercised with the same care as that of a person of ordinary prudence

[NOTE: my underlining]

SECTION 1598/3 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand

A guardian is the legal representative of the ward. ... Section 1571 shall apply mutais mutandis...

So, all in all, you want to make sure you have parental/guardian control. However, in the case of luk-krung children, the courts have often awarded parental control/gurdianship to the Thai mother.

As such - therein lies the problem...

SM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Discussing the above provisions with a friend of my yesterday evening, they concurred that the above apply in normal circumstances. However, insofar as land is concerned, they directed me to Section 1574 of the Civil and Commercial Code - and in particular sub-sections (1) & (2). These read as follows:

A person exercising parental power cannot eneter into any of the following acts with regard to the property of a minor except with the permission of the Court:

(1) selling, exchanging, sale with right of redemption, letting out property on hire-purchase, mortgaging, releasing mortgage to mortgagor or transfering the right of mortgage on immovable property [land] or on mortgaged movable property;

(2) extinguishing the whole or a part of the real right of the minor on immovable property;

....

(5) letting immovable property for a period exceeeding 3 years;

...

(7) making a loan of money

...

(13)...

So it would appear that my comments above were wrong in this case and that there are certain safe-guards in place.

SM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for the information but does this only apply to Thai fathers or does it apply to Farangs as well? If I cannot own land or a house it would seem to me that my wife has to name our son as the heir and me as the guardian which would allow me to stay in the house and on the land. Or is there another Thai law which comes into effect?

[uncle paul]

buy the house on condition you get a 30 year lease to be passed to any children or uk family if you should kick it. insert clauses such as house cannot be sold without permission of tennant etc

[chiangrai57020]

Please understand that most, if not all, the Ampur's in Thailand operate under their OWN rules and regulations! Thai laws and regulations from Bangkok do not apply.

That said, I spent 2 hours with a Thai lawyer in Chiangrai this morning. The wife and I want to purchase land to build a home. Neither one of us are Thai citizens. The son (age 8) IS a Thai citizen. Don't Ask!! Too complicated.

Anyway, the lawyer was very specific when I asked him if the Land could be purchased in the childs name. The answer was - YES. Can the childs name be registered on the Chanot Ti Din as owner - YES. Can the mother (Non-Thai) be recorded on the Chanote Ti Din as Usufraut - NO. Can my name be entered on the Chanote Ti Din as Usufraut - YES. Wait a minute 'I say' - Why me but not the mother? Because if something happen to the son before reaching age 20 the mother is the legal heir to the Land.

I specifically asked the lawyer, many times throughout the discusion, If he was absolutely sure about what he was telling me. He stated YES - 'No problem!!

We plan to purchase and register the Land in about a month. The lawyer is diffinately going to do the processing Because I have my doubts about what he told me! Will provide an update upon completion of the transaction - If anyone is interested.

[thaigene2]

Looking forward to the update Chiangrai57020. The real test will come at the Land Registry..as always.

You know, many people here keep saying ask a lawyer (as you have done). Well I've also spoken to a few, including some of the most well know Farang solicitors doing biz in LOS.

At first they are very confident in telling you the rules. But then when you start asking the real intelligent, detailed questions (like those in the above posts) you can see the confidence start to ebb away..and the sweat start to form and the contradictions start to appear.

Most of these people seem to own condos in BKK and then a second place in Phuket in a company name with the annoying 30 year lease nonsense.

One very senior guy told me he was trying to figured out how the recent changes a couple of years ago would affect his daughter (born here but both parents farang)..This man has been practising law here for something like 25 years.

If he doesn't know..then I'm sure I don't. So my cash stays in the bank until I can register in my name..and that could be a long wait..