Talking Like An Idiot

[DiamondKing]

I live with my Thai familly and with the exception of the wife no one else speaks any english so I am constantly talking like an idiot in broken pigeon thai english, the thing that is annoying me is I do it to my 2 1/2 year old daughter too which I am trying to stop as I hoefully want her to actually be able to speak good english but its not easy.

Anyone else catch themselves talking like an idiot to there infant child.

DK

[ThePunPun]

Yes I definitely can see that you have a possible very serious concern. You should take care and teach , as much as possible, proper English to you daughter. As you know idiot type talk is not good.

All you need to prove to yourself the seriousness of continuing idiot type talk , is just read about half of the posts on this forum.

Now would you wish that on any young son or daughter....???

On the more serious side I know what you are feeling. We all want only the best for our little treasures. We just have to try harder.

TPP

[realthaideal]

Hey DK.

THough your worries are well-founded in that some ppl may think you sound silly, mixing of languages is a common phenomenon across many cultures when 2 or more collide. If I remember correctly, research says that kids will be able to clearly distinguish between each actual true language and then your own special pidgin as well - ie they won't end up confused or language-ignorant as a result. This topic isn't so CM related, though I suppose you might wanna meat locals in the same boat as you.... Anyway, you oughtta look up ESL and 'code switching' in 'multilingual households' and you should see something to the same effect that I've just said. Should be fun reading !

[Thakkar]

I don't use pidgin English with my teenage daughters, never have.

But they still think I'm an idiot.

[Blinky Bill]

I don't use pidgin English with my teenage daughters, never have.

But they still think I'm an idiot.

What a coincidence, Thak.

[Thakkar]

I don't use pidgin English with my teenage daughters, never have.

But they still think I'm an idiot.

What a coincidence, Thak.

Reminds me of this quote:

"When I was 17, I thought my father was the biggest idiot. By the time I was 22, I was surprised at how much the old man had learned in five years."

[dekbahnnok]

get her into English language cartoons and make English fun for her....get her away from Thai TV as much as possible...even video games will help...watch and play with her...keep on it...

meanwhile get her schoolbooks and get her to help you learn Thai....it really isn't that hard

[MrBrad]

Be aware that there is a difference between 1) creating sentences with a mix of proper Thai and proper English, and 2) speaking what I call Tarzan-talk or caveman English. For the purposes of this thread I'd rather we didn't argue about what is or isn't proper English; I think we all know it when we hear it. "Standard" English might be a better term.

Nonetheless, when you are speaking English to your young child, particularly if they're beyond infancy, make every effort to use complete sentences in English just as you would with another adult foreigner. This is how children acquire language in English-speaking countries--in all countries, actually. They will figure it out in time. Having a mix of Thai and English is not all bad, but don't allow them to go too far down the road speaking like many adult foreigners do when they (Tarzan and others) are trying to communicate with their Thai friends.

"Code switching," the term mentioned by realthaideal, is what we all do when switching between two "languages," whether that be between you and your child's teacher or the police, or between you and your fishing buddies; whether that be between Thai and German; or German and English. Foreign languages, by the way, are actually stored in a different area of the brain than your first language. That is why people who have suffered a stroke will find that their first language memory may be severely compromised, but they still may be able to communicate in a foreign language.

Oh, and one more thing, read to your child. Get your hands on storybooks, nursery rhymes, and other age-appropriate English reading material. Your child will not only pick up more English, but will also probably see the joy in reading, which is not a bad thing at all.

Edited October 9, 2010 by MrBrad

[DiamondKing]

get her into English language cartoons and make English fun for her....get her away from Thai TV as much as possible...even video games will help...watch and play with her...keep on it...

meanwhile get her schoolbooks and get her to help you learn Thai....it really isn't that hard

Already got that covered 3 tvs in the house one english only and one for thai tv (she is not allwed to watch that one) and she has her own tv with a full array of thai and english cartoon dvds plus we spend a lot of time on you tube for the hard to get cartoons and nursery rhymes

LOL its me who is the problem but I will try harder not to talk to her like I talk to the missus and the rest of the familly LOL

DK

[jackr]

I live with my Thai familly

How do you do it?

...get her away from Thai TV as much as possible...

As harsh as it sounds, I'd also add getting her away from the extended family if poss'. Will unlikely be perfectly proficient in English with multiple permanent Thai speakers in da home. While better to have English on TV rather than the local crud, too much TV of any form is not great and will more than likely develop a lazy little brat.

Mr Brad is on the ball. Getting your hands on English books and reading/speaking full English is the way to go. When they can learn to read the book off their own back and get their mind ticking over from the inside, you've cracked it. Oh, and did I mention getting rid of the mob?

[Mapguy]

Lots of good advice above! Don't worry about the child's capacity to sort it all out eventually. My understanding is that, given the latest research, the neurological ability to learn languages peaks at about the age 13. Oh, it is not recommended to talk baby talk or Thaiglish (or the patois of any language) unless you want a child to learn to speak the same! Easy traps to ensnare loving parents.

Hmmmmmm! Now, the neurological bit does explain something about difficulties of learning Thai among old f*rts posting here !!

Edited October 9, 2010 by Mapguy

[Blinky Bill]

Hmmmmmm! Now, the neurological bit does explain something about difficulties of learning Thai among old f*rts posting here !!

Check out the thread title, Mapguy.

[Thakkar]

When our daughters were born, we'd read to them from the moment they could sit up. Actually, I even read to them while they were still in the womb. When our first child began to walk, holding on to the walls, I had a carpenter come in and build three-feet high cabinets with a rounded, small-hands-grippable edge all along the walls of our appartment. I put small cardboard picture books and other books all along the surface whence my little one could grab what she pleased as it was all at her eye level.

When our kids were ready to read, I hired a professional to teach them to read using a system called Jolly Phonics. Like me, they developed a love of reading. They are now teenagers and still love to read. They consistently spend more on books and magazines than toys or clothes, though their growing passion for fashion is a nascent worry.

Large, cardboard picture books with some words are great for a two-year-old.

Pop-up books delighted our daughters no end. Reading together is also a great way to bond.

I especially recommend ALL the children's books by Sandra Boynton, especially "But not the Hippopotamus" "Birthday Monsters" and "Barnyard Dance". When we moved here, we didn't keep a lot of the children's books, but kept many of the Boynton books, because all of us have fond memories of reading/singing/howling (yes, howling—from a counting book involving dogs and howling) and even dancing from Boynton's books.

I think that talking to our kids in whatever way comes naturally is best. Trust your paternal and maternal instincts—whatever feels right is usually right.

As for Television, my suggestion would be to watch DVD's together (not using DVD's as a baby sitter), but avoid regular TV, English or Thai or any other. I'm not too keen even on Sasame St. I think most children's shows tend to talk down to kids. Most of rest of television talks down to adults.

[Beetlejuice]

Why you think I talk my children like that?

Braddy stupid thlead.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Beetlejuice

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Anyone else catch themselves talking like an idiot to there infant child.

No. Never ever.

(I reserve that for Thaivisa posting. )

[Ta22]

i believe is the extreme urge to express oneself the best so the other party can understand you , when we cannot express ourself with what we speak we start to use body languages and all kinda way . to project what we want to express to the other party be it a baby or your wife , this is also showing that the other party is more superior then you in the event that you try to express yourself in monkey way to them .

it all depend on who is trying to get their idea or info over . and who is in need of the info at that moment .

but is also an expression of LOVE . is how we show the party we love willingly lowering our mentally to match a monkey .

so don't be shy the next time or feel like an idiot cos that idiot who is playing with the little girl is shining his carebear love on that sweet child

[MAJIC]

Yea,but its worse when your English speaking friends have to tell you,to switch off the Pidgeon/Broken English,

Thats when you know you need to get out of the Village more!

[rodcourt49]

I don't use pidgin English with my teenage daughters, never have.

But they still think I'm an idiot.

..I tried speaking English to pigeons..but they didn't cojai either!

[krading]

I talk to the trees

But they don't listen to me

[JimShortz]

I see lots of people talking to their wives/girlfriends in pidgin English, and I also used to do it all of the time until a friend pointed out to me that I was modelling bad grammar. If you do this it can be no surprise that the English of the person you are talking to doesn't get better.

I really hope my missus doesn't talk to me in pidgin Thai when we speak together in Thai because I don't want to learn pidgin Thai... But if she was I would know no better and end up mimicking bad Thai!

It's not easy to stop the pidgin English speaking once you atart it, but would all be doing Thais a favour if we spoke rite proper like...

[Blinky Bill]

I really hope my missus doesn't talk to me in pidgin Thai when we speak together in Thai because I don't want to learn pidgin Thai... But if she was I would know no better and end up mimicking bad Thai!

The majority of western non-Thais attempting to speak Thai do so rather poorly. I would think less than 1 in 10 speak with any degree of fluency.

[uptheos]

I really hope my missus doesn't talk to me in pidgin Thai when we speak together in Thai because I don't want to learn pidgin Thai... But if she was I would know no better and end up mimicking bad Thai!

The majority of western non-Thais attempting to speak Thai do so rather poorly. I would think less than 1 in 10 speak with any degree of fluency.

But Blinky, there are loads of farang's that speak Thai fluently...they keep mentioning it on this forum.

[Blinky Bill]

I really hope my missus doesn't talk to me in pidgin Thai when we speak together in Thai because I don't want to learn pidgin Thai... But if she was I would know no better and end up mimicking bad Thai!

The majority of western non-Thais attempting to speak Thai do so rather poorly. I would think less than 1 in 10 speak with any degree of fluency.

But Blinky, there are loads of farang's that speak Thai fluently...they keep mentioning it on this forum.

Of course, how silly of me to forget.

[steelepulse]

I always wondered also why a foreigner would speak pidgin Thai to their kids instead of their native tongue. Nothing wrong at all in speaking correctly in whatever your first language is.

[NancyL]

The library at the Raintree Center has a good selection of children's books, DVDs, videos, etc. Also I see children's books sold at some of the used book stores. One of the best gifts the OP and his wife could give to their child is to be literate and to speak properly in two languages. One way children learn language by hearing adults speak it together. If the OP has no way to utilize correct English to engage in daily conversation, then it's all the more important that he reads to his daughter for several hours daily. That human-to-human interaction just can't be replaced by plopping the child in front of the TV and turning on the DVD player.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Thakkar,

We just wanted to say how much we marvel at, and appreciate, the care and concern you showed for your children's education, and how you prepared their environment for them to encourage learning, as revealed in this very inspiring post.

We were blessed with one parent who was highly literate, a poet in her own right, and who read to us long before we could read (in the womb? perhaps ?); also blessed, we think, in growing up when tv was not present in a home with a large library of many books (many beautifully bound special editions). As an "only child" for nine years, we sometimes feel guilty that our later brothers, and (much later, as in eighteen years younger) sister, did not get what we got, although the oldest of my younger brothers has turned out to be a very gifted musician, and the sister a writer who later became a clinical psychologist.

regards, ~o:37;

[MrBrad]

One way children learn language by hearing [others] speak it together. If the OP has no way to utilize correct English to engage in daily conversation, then it's all the more important that he reads to his daughter for several hours daily. That human-to-human interaction just can't be replaced by plopping the child in front of the TV and turning on the DVD player.

This is also a proven fact of language acquisition. Listening to English on a TV, radio, CD/DVD player or the like is no substitute for actually being present and listening to others using the language. 100 hours of TV and 100 hours of person-to-person interaction do not produce similar results at all.

[Krungbin]

Both of our daughters were born when we lived in Canada.  Toronto, Ontario.  Both my wife and  I being raised in French, but "life" being in English, we soon faced the problem of what language should be spoken, at home, first, and outside, after!

The rule we adopted was a very easy one: inside, French, outside - and as soon as somebody speaking English was at home - English.  As a result, today both of our daughters are perfectly triligal as they learned to speak Spanish as well.

The important point to understand is that all kids, wherever they are from, have brains like "sponges".  But they do need a "reference".  Although my parents were speaking French at home, the first language I spoke was German as my nany was German and spoke German to me.  But I was speaking French with my parents.  The nany was the German ref, my parents were the French one.  I still speak both of these languages...and I am "trying" to get understood in English, Italian, Dutch and Thai too!  

What I mean to say is that you should speak proper English to your daughter, and become her "English reference".  Her mother should speak proper Thai to her and she will become her "Thai reference".  When she will reach 15, 16, she won't forget any of these languages.  

[Thakkar]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Thakkar,

We just wanted to say how much we marvel at, and appreciate, the care and concern you showed for your children's education, and how you prepared their environment for them to encourage learning, as revealed in this very inspiring post.

We were blessed with one parent who was highly literate, a poet in her own right, and who read to us long before we could read (in the womb? perhaps ?); also blessed, we think, in growing up when tv was not present in a home with a large library of many books (many beautifully bound special editions). As an "only child" for nine years, we sometimes feel guilty that our later brothers, and (much later, as in eighteen years younger) sister, did not get what we got, although the oldest of my younger brothers has turned out to be a very gifted musician, and the sister a writer who later became a clinical psychologist.

regards, ~o:37;

Thanks Orang, though you are too generous in your praise. Mrs T and I have made our share of blunders in our parenting, and continue to make more. We know this because our teens hate us less than half their waking hours. I believe that ideally, if we had done/were doing a better job, they should hate us slightly more half their waking hours.

When they were much younger, we'd often watch them as they slept, thinking to ourselves that there is no sight in this universe more wondrous than one's sleeping, breathing child. But I was cognizant of the danger of feeling too possessive and would remind myself and my wife that we did not own them, that they were merely in our care for a short period.

We're even more cognizant of that fact now, because our teenagers do the reminding.

[Eureka]

I don't use pidgin English with my teenage daughters, never have.

But they still think I'm an idiot.

What a coincidence, Thak.

It is better that they remain thinking ............... wait until they KNOW. :lol:

Edited October 11, 2010 by Eureka