Outcome Of Thai Democrats' Legal Drama Still Uncertain

[TheyCallmeScooter]

This only prove 1 thing.

You do not understand Thai language; you have no idea what the discussion was about in the video clip.

Guilty as charged.

But I was under the impression the dialogue was under some heated dispute over accuracy of the 'interpreted' content? And I have seen Prachatai and PTP's idea of 'subtitles' and 'interpretation' - if we can incorrectly use those words to describe whatever they call the butchering of truth.

Is there an agreed or (not hotly disputed) transcript of the discussion I can assess? Because there are some glaring logical irregularities with what I suspect you're coyly attempting to claim without claiming....

1. The tapes themselves can literally ONLY exist if sponsored by one side. You understand this yes? In a hypothetical where there is conspiracy to pervert justice, the conspirators do not produce evidence incriminating themselves. Therefore, the hidden cameras can ONLY be rolling with the intent of incrimination. That means = entrapment. That means = desperation (you wouldn't take such risks unless you were certain your side was going to lose). And that means = the obvious (conspirators who have 'fixed' the match aren't very well going to 'fix' it with you again, are they? They might, however, be confused / entrapped into mumbling along in panic / confusion whilst you entrapped and framed them for the purposes of your hidden camera).

2. This case - the entire shambles - is over a ludicrous insult to the law. The size of campaign posters? Come on. This is not exactly a razor-thin cliffhanger of a decision which could go either way or which was ever leaning in favour of the dirty PTP protagonists (no matter how much they flail their arms around talking about double standards - they lost 100 MPs to vote-buying out-and-out corruption...there are double standards going on obviously, but it's not PTP / Dem...my point being the Judges never had to contrive a result here. Change the variables to irrefutable, undeniable corruption of the kind TRT and TRT II were banned for, and you got yourself a prima facie case for match fixing).

As it stands? Everyone who undermines the Court with groundless illogical innuendo and everyone who seeks to prejudice the imminent verdict with outrageous cries for anarchy to replace due process....is guilty of contempt and should be dealt with appropriately. A journalist cannot simply throw ludicrous outrageous allegations of conspiracy out into the air, claiming the highest court in the land HAS to rule in favour of the Reds otherwise they lose all credibility - what the deuce? In any other country in the world, he'd already be in prison. Australia, anywhere in Europe, the US (contempt of court there is 6 months gaol for yawning), anywhere. It's just outrageous. And criminal, frankly.

High court president Chat Chonlaworn has swiftly sacked his secretary. But making Pasit Sakdanarong a fall guy (1) yesterday does not sweep the problem away.(2)

In order to regain trust, the high court has to dispel lingering doubt on two issues (3) - the leak of judicial debate in judges' private chambers and the lapse in supervision of Pasit, who acted like he was authorised to broker a deal on the case.(4)

Unless doubts are satisfactorily dispelled in a timely manner, the looming verdict will lack credibility (5) - regardless of whether it favours or does not favour the Democrats - as it is likely to inflame the red-shirt movement.(6)

Even though the Pheu Thai Party is known for its push to disband the main coalition party, five video clips released on YouTube late last week are not just about gutter politics but tantamount to dropping a bomb on the core of judicial credibility.(7)

In courts all around the world, judges exchange ideas before forming their respective decisions. Such debates are privileged information rarely released before a verdict is handed down.

The leak of what transpired among nine Constitution Court judges in their own chambers could mean the culprit or culprits are either judges or trusted aides privy to such debates.(8)

The high court is obligated to get to the bottom of the matter of how and why talks in their private chambers were made public.(9)

1. "a fall guy" = clearly implies a conspiracy, i.e. who is he falling, for? This is ridiculous. And criminal. It's a blatant allegation that Pasit was acting under orders instead of being the rogue villain working for (ahem) that he obviously was. This journalist makes this open allegation, and then contradicts himself moments later. This is criminal contempt of court, and a raft of other crimes. PRISON

2. "sweep the problem away" = as per 1), implies there is a conspiracy to conceal wrongdoing. This is a criminal offence guaranteeing prison spell in every civilised nation on the planet. If he has evidence, he must present it. If not, handcuffs. I feel it's safe to say his own subsequent contradictions along with the fact that if he had the evidence he required to make those allegations legal, none of us would be discussing this - and the article would not have been (criminally) written. PRISON

3. Um, what? No. The High Court doesn't "have" to do what idiot faux journalists demand, especially not without logical arguments supporting those demands. There is "doubt", he claims. Then he presents literally NOTHING that suggests there is a reason the Obvious is not the case (the Obvious = Pasit was paid to smear the Court and entrap the Dem MP - he did his job, handed over the video to the relevant parties, left the country never to return). If you want to proffer a different theory, by all means, present it...but you cannot launch unconscionable wild allegations at the Constitutional Court, and then provide zero logic (let alone evidence) to mitigate your criminal contempt of court. PRISON

4. "acted like he was authorised" - is this idiot for real? He can't very well entrap anyone if he acts like a rogue Court secretary. Acting like he was authorised to negotiate for the judges puts them under similar doubt to the doubt Thaksin would generate if I started negotiations, claiming I was authorised by Thaksin. This is ludicrous idiocy. PRISON

5. Saying a Court's decision "lacks credibility" is contempt of court even when the judge is found to be corrupt (fact! google it). Saying a court's imminent verdict will lack credibility if the judges don't defend themselves against retarded slanderous claims is prejudicial. And criminal. PRISON

6. Attempting to preordain an imminent verdict as "credibility-deficient"...if the verdict rules for the opposing side? Or if the judges don't kowtow to your irrational demands? A ruthless prosecutor would go for more serious charges there, but rest assured it's stunning / criminal contempt. At BEST. PRISON

7. "dropping a bomb on the core of judicial credibility" - how ironic. You know what is attempting to drop a bomb on the core of judicial credibility? In ways the simple recording of private conversations with unknown topics and contexts and whatnot simply is not? Yes, oh yes you do. CONTEMPT, forced Contempt. Labeling privacy breaches as "exploding the CORE of judicial credibility" - when I'm yet to hear a SINGLE logical example of this explosive evidence as it's been (I have to assume FALSELY) described. This is akin to bombing Bangkok, then claiming your bombing is terrifying those in power, who are also the ones doing the bombing. Hmm? Contempt of court. PRISON

8. Read this sentence. Slowly.

"The leak of what transpired among nine Constitution Court judges in their own chambers could mean the culprit or culprits are either judges or trusted aides privy to such debates."

What? Is his point here? Yes, it could...or it could mean Pasit snuck a hidden camera into the chambers. Which would make spooky, freakish sense considering who ended up with the video. Gasp! Whoa! Amazing. But even if not, what the f is his..POINT with the above statement? I'll settle for the stockade, no need to imprison the town fool.

9. Read this sentence. Slowly.

"The high court is obligated to get to the bottom of the matter of how and why talks in their private chambers were made public."

a) why? Isn't their privacy their prerogative? From whence comes this 'obligation' to do what this idiot demands?

b ) I was under the impression they got the bottom of it. Pasit the rat took cash for conspiracy to smear the Court. presto. 'mystery' solved. <deleted>? Do we have to waterboard the entire complement of staff including the judges to satisfy this joke's insatiable search for...what, exactly? I think we both know. He's spraying his own fake mud. In lieu of finding any actual dirt. PRISON

c) Throughout the entire article, he attempts to cover his Red fiery skin with concessions that everyone understands already. Judges discussing a case before handing down a verdict is not a conspiracy to deliver the obviously correct verdict, no more than a jury discussing Guilt beyond Idiotic Doubt prior to sending some innocent hick to life imprisonment is conspiring to get their verdict wrong. So he concedes the footage is innocuous and innocent. Then illogically argues for investigations and obligations and talks about "lingering doubts" and is endlessly in contempt claiming legitimacy-deficits and....

Are you starting to get the picture of the idiotic nature of the 'argument'? I already know what was said, without understanding Thai. It's abundantly clear.

What's also abundantly clear is: PRISON

That's the most contemptuous example of Contempt of Court from a media source I have seen (or will likely ever see) lifetime. PRISON

[hammered]

It is clip tow showing the Pasit and the Dem chatting which is the most damaging. The first one could be about anything and 3-5 are in as at least one of them covers some of th same subject matter as in 2. However there is no reason to assume a connection and apart from 2 the other 4 seem to be there to create a context that those releasing them want. Tapes 1,3,4,5 may be totally unconnected and from a different time. Tape 2 on its own is damning on the MP and court official but it isnt political dynamite in the stir the masses up kind of way that an overall conspiracy is though so one needed to be created by context and one was. Standard political play to maximise your advantage through a little embellishment is what it looks like.

No disolution followed by a Dem-PTP government is being suggested today. With PTP making themselves difficult it is a possibility

Interesting times.

[Robby nz]

There was 'NEW' video evidence introduced at the last minute when the prosicution were giving their evidence and now this attempt to cast the Dems as the villans.

Could this point to someone thinking they dont have a strong enough case and are in fact losing?

Surely there will be a money trail leading to the absconded Sec who released these clips.

Enought to be worth his while losing his job and making it possible for him to leave the country.

It would be reasonable to assume it was not the Dems who paid him.

But then it could just have been his strong belief in the guilt of the dems that caused him to try to show that guilt.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

In Thailand, if anyone question judges (regardless if the judges are corrupted or not) us against the law, and will be punished in jail.

Please be careful what you type.

Self censorship is best, as your IP address is logged.

Your advice, though valid for every nation on the planet rather than your intent to isolate it to Thailand, is sound. The contempt laws are there to protect against the VERY thing however, that you are guilty of...after you warned another party!?

For whatever the reasons why the videos were released, whether it is a setup as allege, we must NOT be detracted from the facts that the Democrats illegally manipulated the witnesses and the Thai legal system.

Like 6 (?) people now have asked you to come out with it, and it's becoming increasingly apparent there is nothing to "come out with". You risk appearing quite the fool if you persist. Also you might want to consider editing out some of your (unsupported) allegations below. Up to you of course, but they would be ruled to be in contempt in Australia, UK, USA, Brazil...anywhere.

You simply cannot make unsubstantiated allegations about the integrity of the judicial process for the purposes of undermining it.

What is complex about this particular aspect of law?

The court personnel has been caughted red-hand (on tape). It must be Thailand first.

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4095iNv-gY&NR=1

You're alleging judiciary misconduct above. If I were in your position, I would want something fairly solid to be basing that on. And if it's so solid, why all the evasive deflection? You're a braver man than I.

Yes they did.

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4095iNv-gY&NR=1

------------

Just watch the clip. Your answer is in there.

You may need your gf to translate for you.

---------------

This only prove 1 thing.

You do not understand Thai language; you have no idea what the discussion was about in the video clip.

In response to requests that you back up your allegations that the Democrats illegally manipulated witnesses and the judicial system.

"Yes they did" isn't really convincing evidence.

Neither is assurances that your allegations are substantiated.

To your 3rd comment in the single quote above, am I really clueless? Or am I completely aware of the nature of the content purely through reading and assessing the responses of others (including the blanket of silence from one side in terms of Evidence)?

[whybother]

Scooter ... surely you've been around long enough to know to IGNORE ANYTHING that Chantorn posts.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Scooter ... surely you've been around long enough to know to IGNORE ANYTHING that Chantorn posts.

lol I've been had.

In my defence, I am a moran.

Your statement makes irrefutable logic. I cannot fault it. fml

[Insight]

Enought to be worth his while losing his job and making it possible for him to leave the country.

He's gone to collect the pay cheque.

[way2muchcoffee]

It is clip tow showing the Pasit and the Dem chatting which is the most damaging. The first one could be about anything and 3-5 are in as at least one of them covers some of th same subject matter as in 2. However there is no reason to assume a connection and apart from 2 the other 4 seem to be there to create a context that those releasing them want. Tapes 1,3,4,5 may be totally unconnected and from a different time. Tape 2 on its own is damning on the MP and court official but it isnt political dynamite in the stir the masses up kind of way that an overall conspiracy is though so one needed to be created by context and one was. Standard political play to maximise your advantage through a little embellishment is what it looks like.

No disolution followed by a Dem-PTP government is being suggested today. With PTP making themselves difficult it is a possibility

Interesting times.

While I agree that this analysis is probably accurate for Western countries, I don't think it applies here.

The red spin doctors are hard at work. This incident will be spun so ferociously that the rank and file ptp/udd supporters will likely resort to extreme violence if the Dems are not found guilty and dissolved.

Edited October 20, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Siripon]

The clips inside the chambers with the judges talking are taken exactly from where Pasit would sit.

The clip with Prem is from last year when he presented awards to outstanding judges as he usually does, nothing to do with the Democrats' case, a crude smear attempt.

It's interesting that Pasit has gone to Hong Kong, a frequent 'secret' meeting place for Pheua Thai MPs.

[Robby nz]

Enought to be worth his while losing his job and making it possible for him to leave the country.

He's gone to collect the pay cheque.

I would suspect he was paid a deposit to take the videos then a final payment when they were handed over to whoever? ordered them.

Doubt if he would have trusted anyone to pay later.

Must have been quite a big payment as the job of Sec to a judge would have to be considered quite a good job by any standards with pay to match.

Now he can never be trusted again so is unemployed for the rest of his life.

Unless of course he has a job waiting in Montanagro or has been promised a list MP job after the next election.

[rubl]

It is clip tow showing the Pasit and the Dem chatting which is the most damaging. The first one could be about anything and 3-5 are in as at least one of them covers some of th same subject matter as in 2. However there is no reason to assume a connection and apart from 2 the other 4 seem to be there to create a context that those releasing them want. Tapes 1,3,4,5 may be totally unconnected and from a different time. Tape 2 on its own is damning on the MP and court official but it isnt political dynamite in the stir the masses up kind of way that an overall conspiracy is though so one needed to be created by context and one was. Standard political play to maximise your advantage through a little embellishment is what it looks like.

No disolution followed by a Dem-PTP government is being suggested today. With PTP making themselves difficult it is a possibility

Interesting times.

While I agree that this analysis is probably accurate for Western countries, I don't think it applies here.

The red spin doctors are hard at work. This incident will be spun so ferociously that the rank and file ptp/udd supporters will likely resort to extreme violence if the Dems are not found guilty and dissolved.

Very astute observation I'm afraid.

Some red-shirts still believe the government promised new elections for November this year and are now proven liars as they will not. The tape from last year 'kill them all' is also still believed. These new tapes already lead their own life.

[Buchholz]

Probe launched on court's video clips scandal

Constitution Court president Chat Chonlaworn has appointed a fact-finding panel to investigate into the video clips scandal which leaked the debate in the judges' private chambers related to the Democrat Party dissolution trial.

The investigation, launched since Tuesday, is expected to focus on the involvement of Chat's secretary Pasit Sakdanarong who has fled to Hong Kong.

Court officials said they believed the clips in question were secretly recorded on October 4 and that Pasit was a suspected culprit because the video recorder appeared to have been set up where he sat during the debate.

Pasit is not a court official with any mandate to take part in the debate. He gained access under the pretext that he was part of the court spokesmen team.

He worked as a private secretary before Chat sacked him on Monday after the scandal broke last week.

-- The Nation 2010-10-20

[Buchholz]

Democrat Party spokesman Thepthai Senpong made an interesting point today when he said it is difficult to say that the Pheu Thai Party is not involved with the staging the controversial video footage, considering how Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan and Pheu Thai Spokesman Prompong Nopparit knew beforehand that such clips existed.

[Buchholz]

^^ well, the requisite has occurred.

Pheu Thai Party Spokesman Prompong Nopparit has filed the seemingly mandatory defamation lawsuit today against Democrat Party and its MP Wirat Romyen and said that no Puea Thai Party member had anything to do with the videos.

He went to say how the words of the Democrats had soiled the grand and glorious reputation of the Pheu Thai Party (or words to that effect) and that it could jeopardize the October 30 by-election in Surat Thani by attempting to taint his unsoiled Party with accusations of duplicity and thus improperly influence voters.

No amount was given on the news of the lawsuit, but I'm verifying that the PTP are seeking 80 quadzillion British pound sterling as suitable compensation for the egregious effort to sully their good name.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Buchholz

[Robby nz]

The controversy over the video of the meeting between a Democrat MP and a former secretary of the Constitution Court president will have no effect on the court's consideration of the election fraud case against the Democrat Party, court secretary-general Chaovana Traimas said on Wednesday.

Mr Chaovana said a committee has been set up to investigate this matter and the results were expected soon.

The controversy would definitely have no effect on the Constitution Court's handling of the case against the Democrat Party.

"People can rest assured of the court's neutrality and independence," he said.

Mr Chaovana said that in the wake of the scandal the court had stepped up restrictions on people entering a room where the judges were meeting.

All kinds of communication devices were now prohibited from being taken into the meeting room, he said

[rubl]

^^ well, the requisite has occurred.

Pheu Thai Party Spokesman Prompong Nopparit has filed the seemingly mandatory defamation lawsuit today against Democrat Party and its MP Wirat Romyen and said that no Puea Thai Party member had anything to do with the videos.

He went to say how the words of the Democrats had soiled the grand and glorious reputation of the Pheu Thai Party (or words to that effect) and that it could jeopardize the October 30 by-election in Surat Thani by attempting to taint his unsoiled Party with accusations of duplicity and thus improperly influence voters.

No amount was given on the news of the lawsuit, but I'm verifying that the PTP are seeking 80 quadzillion British pound sterling as suitable compensation for the egregious effort to sully their good name.

If the PTP candidate looses in the Surat Thani by-elections it will surely be the fault of those dastardly Dem's who fight unfair. Nothing to do with the fact that PTP has said before they are aware they don't really have a chance to win many votes. Don't confuse the two matters

Edited October 20, 2010 by rubl

[SergeiY]

^^ well, the requisite has occurred.

Pheu Thai Party Spokesman Prompong Nopparit has filed the seemingly mandatory defamation lawsuit today against Democrat Party and its MP Wirat Romyen and said that no Puea Thai Party member had anything to do with the videos.

He went to say how the words of the Democrats had soiled the grand and glorious reputation of the Pheu Thai Party (or words to that effect) and that it could jeopardize the October 30 by-election in Surat Thani by attempting to taint his unsoiled Party with accusations of duplicity and thus improperly influence voters.

No amount was given on the news of the lawsuit, but I'm verifying that the PTP are seeking 80 quadzillion British pound sterling as suitable compensation for the egregious effort to sully their good name.

If the PTP candidate looses in the Surat Thani by-elections it will surely be the fault of those dastardly Dem's who fight unfair. Nothing to do with the fact that PTP has said before they are aware they don't really have a chance to win many votes. Don't confuse the two matters

Facts please, less "IF's"

[rubl]

^^ well, the requisite has occurred.

Pheu Thai Party Spokesman Prompong Nopparit has filed the seemingly mandatory defamation lawsuit today against Democrat Party and its MP Wirat Romyen and said that no Puea Thai Party member had anything to do with the videos.

He went to say how the words of the Democrats had soiled the grand and glorious reputation of the Pheu Thai Party (or words to that effect) and that it could jeopardize the October 30 by-election in Surat Thani by attempting to taint his unsoiled Party with accusations of duplicity and thus improperly influence voters.

No amount was given on the news of the lawsuit, but I'm verifying that the PTP are seeking 80 quadzillion British pound sterling as suitable compensation for the egregious effort to sully their good name.

If the PTP candidate looses in the Surat Thani by-elections it will surely be the fault of those dastardly Dem's who fight unfair. Nothing to do with the fact that PTP has said before they are aware they don't really have a chance to win many votes. Don't confuse the two matters

Facts please, less "IF's"

Said before:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/10/09/politics/Worawuth-vows-worthy-fight-in-Surat-Thani-poll-30139707.html

Sorry, on the actual by-election result on the 30th I can only give an 'if', not a 'when'. Still have to buy batteries for my crystal ball

[chantorn]

Dems will win regardless of any clips. Dems can just claim that it was photoshoped, and everyone in this world (minus the Red-shirt) will blindly believe.

[SergeiY]

It is clip tow showing the Pasit and the Dem chatting which is the most damaging. The first one could be about anything and 3-5 are in as at least one of them covers some of th same subject matter as in 2. However there is no reason to assume a connection and apart from 2 the other 4 seem to be there to create a context that those releasing them want. Tapes 1,3,4,5 may be totally unconnected and from a different time. Tape 2 on its own is damning on the MP and court official but it isnt political dynamite in the stir the masses up kind of way that an overall conspiracy is though so one needed to be created by context and one was. Standard political play to maximise your advantage through a little embellishment is what it looks like.

No disolution followed by a Dem-PTP government is being suggested today. With PTP making themselves difficult it is a possibility

Interesting times.

While I agree that this analysis is probably accurate for Western countries, I don't think it applies here.

The red spin doctors are hard at work. This incident will be spun so ferociously that the rank and file ptp/udd supporters will likely resort to extreme violence if the Dems are not found guilty and dissolved.

Very astute observation I'm afraid.

Some red-shirts still believe the government promised new elections for November this year and are now proven liars as they will not. The tape from last year 'kill them all' is also still believed. These new tapes already lead their own life.

Funny, there are also some anti-reds here who believe the government promised new election for November this year.

The clips everyone is talking about right now seems to be most likely really really real and not fake. I don't about what "Kill them all" tape you are talking about.

All others 'facts' are 'IFs' ; Not 'astute observation' but silly prediction out of the crystal ball by hobby spin doctors hard at work.

[rubl]

Very astute observation I'm afraid.

Some red-shirts still believe the government promised new elections for November this year and are now proven liars as they will not. The tape from last year 'kill them all' is also still believed. These new tapes already lead their own life.

Funny, there are also some anti-reds here who believe the government promised new election for November this year.

The clips everyone is talking about right now seems to be most likely really really real and not fake. I don't about what "Kill them all" tape you are talking about.

All others 'facts' are 'IFs' ; Not 'astute observation' but silly prediction out of the crystal ball by hobby spin doctors hard at work.

Not funny, unfortunately true. Indoctrination works.

The tapes from k. Pasit seem real for sure. The ones with judges discussing may not be made at the same date as the meeting between Pasit and two Dem's. That may be a suggestion which works as it's not outpsoken what it suggests. Clever.

All other comments are opinions just like yours. As for me, I already told you in another topic/reply I have to buy batteries for my crystal ball first

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Facts please, less "IF's"

Oh, don't be ridiculous Sergei.

When you show me that you have posted the the above in response to every Red propagandist - to EVERY article of endless "if's" that they scrawl - you can then justifiably fling the request outwards.

Don't play dumb now. You know the insulting tripe I refer to. Throw a dart at a Red Shirt propaganda network Op-Ed and 99% chance you'll have found an example.

hel_l, I read some ludicrous Op-Ed on one of the idiotic sites (their obsessive parroting of each other's idiocy lends them a blurring, if comical, effect) the other day where the author was complaining Abhisit's throwing of cash and welfare states at the Reds was a conspiratorial plan to subject them to handouts or some hilarity I can't repeat verbatim as a result of it inspiring me to fits of laughter.

Your side is becoming increasingly stupid in their 'message' now. It's getting desperate. I - almost - sympathise with the rare non-idiot like yourself who - for god knows what undisclosed reason/s - are feigning idiocy in support of their 'cause'. Which, I note again, does not...exist. Now that Abhisit has paid the ransom they demanded when they hijacked the nation with terror - and a great deal more - his doing so is merely another Elite conspiracy to enrich the poor to be spoiled and lazy. whilst the Status Quo remains. Of course. or whatever. Or so claims PoliticalTerroristsinThailand.com / (insert other Red shell portal here) / whatever...

Dems will win regardless of any clips. Dems can just claim that it was photoshoped, and everyone in this world (minus the Red-shirt) will blindly believe.

Quiet, you fool.

[animatic]

^^ well, the requisite has occurred.

Pheu Thai Party Spokesman Prompong Nopparit has filed the seemingly mandatory defamation lawsuit today against Democrat Party and its MP Wirat Romyen and said that no Puea Thai Party member had anything to do with the videos.

He went to say how the words of the Democrats had soiled the grand and glorious reputation of the Pheu Thai Party (or words to that effect) and that it could jeopardize the October 30 by-election in Surat Thani by attempting to taint his unsoiled Party with accusations of duplicity and thus improperly influence voters.

No amount was given on the news of the lawsuit, but I'm verifying that the PTP are seeking 80 quadzillion British pound sterling as suitable compensation for the egregious effort to sully their good name.

The only thing tainting the Surat Thani vote is the ludicrously addled looking head shot of Yongyuth's son that is plastered all around the province.

The young lad doesn't look, in this picture, as if he can think his way out of a 7/11 sack. Couldn't they do better, both candidate, and more so, PICTURE choice? {Handsome lad though, perfect for job on the tele}. But I guess a sacrificial lamb was needed, and to get him some press for some future date with destiny.

Drove by a PTP campaign meeting two days ago, with several trucks and poster placers there. It is clearly a shoestring effort, and not by the best and brightest. I wonder if they will take another beating when they have the temerity to ask to get reimbursed after losing so badly, as they no doubt will?

Edited October 21, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

It is clip tow showing the Pasit and the Dem chatting which is the most damaging. The first one could be about anything and 3-5 are in as at least one of them covers some of th same subject matter as in 2. However there is no reason to assume a connection and apart from 2 the other 4 seem to be there to create a context that those releasing them want. Tapes 1,3,4,5 may be totally unconnected and from a different time. Tape 2 on its own is damning on the MP and court official but it isnt political dynamite in the stir the masses up kind of way that an overall conspiracy is though so one needed to be created by context and one was. Standard political play to maximise your advantage through a little embellishment is what it looks like.

No disolution followed by a Dem-PTP government is being suggested today. With PTP making themselves difficult it is a possibility

Interesting times.

While I agree that this analysis is probably accurate for Western countries, I don't think it applies here.

The red spin doctors are hard at work. This incident will be spun so ferociously that the rank and file ptp/udd supporters will likely resort to extreme violence if the Dems are not found guilty and dissolved.

Very astute observation I'm afraid.

Some red-shirts still believe the government promised new elections for November this year and are now proven liars as they will not. The tape from last year 'kill them all' is also still believed. These new tapes already lead their own life.

Funny, there are also some anti-reds here who believe the government promised new election for November this year.

The clips everyone is talking about right now seems to be most likely really really real and not fake. I don't about what "Kill them all" tape you are talking about.

All others 'facts' are 'IFs' ; Not 'astute observation' but silly prediction out of the crystal ball by hobby spin doctors hard at work.

Abhisit OFFERED new elections if Veera Nutawhat and Justaprawn agreed. This was live on TV, but suddenly Jatuporn got as text message which he checked on camera and immediately canceled the deal. Gee I wonder what Kuhn T. sent that text?

No agreement, no election.

If they had accepted the election likely would have been held Nov 14th.

And since they refused, Abhisit's offer on the table remained only that,

an offer that wasn't accepted.

Trying to rewrite history rarely really works, except for the gullible.

Edited October 21, 2010 by animatic

[SergeiY]

Abhisit OFFERED new elections if Veera Nutawhat and Justaprawn agreed. This was live on TV, but suddenly Jatuporn got as text message which he checked on camera and immediately canceled the deal. Gee I wonder what Kuhn T. sent that text?

No agreement, no election.

If they had accepted the election likely would have been held Nov 14th.

And since they refused, Abhisit's offer on the table remained only that,

an offer that wasn't accepted.

Trying to rewrite history rarely really works, except for the gullible.

har, har, har.

So you believe there was a promise for election in november to be hold no ifs, no buts. 100% sure ...

You are in the club of the gullible.

But there was that one text message than changed everything. Har , har, har. more bullshit. Do you really believe that too?

[jdinasia]

Abhisit OFFERED new elections if Veera Nutawhat and Justaprawn agreed. This was live on TV, but suddenly Jatuporn got as text message which he checked on camera and immediately canceled the deal. Gee I wonder what Kuhn T. sent that text?

No agreement, no election.

If they had accepted the election likely would have been held Nov 14th.

And since they refused, Abhisit's offer on the table remained only that,

an offer that wasn't accepted.

Trying to rewrite history rarely really works, except for the gullible.

har, har, har.

So you believe there was a promise for election in november to be hold no ifs, no buts. 100% sure ...

You are in the club of the gullible.

But there was that one text message than changed everything. Har , har, har. more bullshit. Do you really believe that too?

Actually, yes I do believe that the offer made during the meeting with Abhisit and his guys, with Jatuporn, Weng and Veera stating that elections by the end of the year (not Nov 14th -- that was a SECOND offer that was refused) would have been honored. Abhisit would have lost far too much face iif he hadn't held the elections as promised in that meeting.

The second offer, that promised elections by 14 Nov, was far more conditional (as it rightly should have been after the continued actions of the armed redshirts occupying downtown BKK).

However ----- THIS thread is about the outcome of the current case against the Democrats and not about how stupid the Reds were in turning down a promised election.

[Buchholz]

^^ well, the requisite has occurred.

Pheu Thai Party Spokesman Prompong Nopparit has filed the seemingly mandatory defamation lawsuit today against Democrat Party and its MP Wirat Romyen and said that no Puea Thai Party member had anything to do with the videos.

He went to say how the words of the Democrats had soiled the grand and glorious reputation of the Pheu Thai Party (or words to that effect) and that it could jeopardize the October 30 by-election in Surat Thani by attempting to taint his unsoiled Party with accusations of duplicity and thus improperly influence voters.

No amount was given on the news of the lawsuit, but I'm verifying that the PTP are seeking 80 quadzillion British pound sterling as suitable compensation for the egregious effort to sully their good name.

The only thing tainting the Surat Thani vote is the ludicrously addled looking head shot of Yongyuth's son that is plastered all around the province.

The young lad doesn't look, in this picture, as if he can think his way out of a 7/11 sack. Couldn't they do better, both candidate, and more so, PICTURE choice? {Handsome lad though, perfect for job on the tele}. But I guess a sacrificial lamb was needed, and to get him some press for some future date with destiny.

Drove by a PTP campaign meeting two days ago, with several trucks and poster placers there. It is clearly a shoestring effort, and not by the best and brightest. I wonder if they will take another beating when they have the temerity to ask to get reimbursed after losing so badly, as they no doubt will?

I couldn't let the inaccurate inference to nepotism regarding Yongyuth go uncorrected.

It is not his son running in the Surat Thani by-election.

Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit said the party's executive board resolved in a unanimous vote to select Worawuth, who was nominated by southern region chief Chavalit Yongchyiyudh, as its candidate.

Will Red Shirt Leader Worawuth (right) be taking electioneering tips from his fellow Red Shirt Leader, and failed Bangkok election candidate, Korkaew Pikulthong (left)?

and IF he is somehow elected, will try to resign from the position as many times (four) as his uncle, Yongyuth Wichadit, has from his position as Pheu Thai Party Leader?

[chantorn]

Abhisit OFFERED new elections if Veera Nutawhat and Justaprawn agreed. This was live on TV, but suddenly Jatuporn got as text message which he checked on camera and immediately canceled the deal. Gee I wonder what Kuhn T. sent that text?

No agreement, no election.

If they had accepted the election likely would have been held Nov 14th.

And since they refused, Abhisit's offer on the table remained only that,

an offer that wasn't accepted.

Trying to rewrite history rarely really works, except for the gullible.

har, har, har.

So you believe there was a promise for election in november to be hold no ifs, no buts. 100% sure ...

You are in the club of the gullible.

But there was that one text message than changed everything. Har , har, har. more bullshit. Do you really believe that too?

The Text message could be send by Newin, sign Thaksin. Hahaha.

[Buchholz]

^^ well, the requisite has occurred.

Pheu Thai Party Spokesman Prompong Nopparit has filed the seemingly mandatory defamation lawsuit today against Democrat Party and its MP Wirat Romyen and said that no Puea Thai Party member had anything to do with the videos.

He went to say how the words of the Democrats had soiled the grand and glorious reputation of the Pheu Thai Party (or words to that effect) and that it could jeopardize the October 30 by-election in Surat Thani by attempting to taint his unsoiled Party with accusations of duplicity and thus improperly influence voters.

and now, two additional, and seemingly obligatory, events have occurred.

1. The Constitution Court judges in the case have received death threats and are asking for protection.

2. Puea Thai Party MP Jatuporn Prompan yesterday said he would release new videotapes involving the judges next week.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Probe launched on court's video clips scandal

Constitution Court president Chat Chonlaworn has appointed a fact-finding panel to investigate into the video clips scandal which leaked the debate in the judges' private chambers related to the Democrat Party dissolution trial.

The investigation, launched since Tuesday, is expected to focus on the involvement of Chat's secretary Pasit Sakdanarong who has fled to Hong Kong.

Court officials said they believed the clips in question were secretly recorded on October 4 and that Pasit was a suspected culprit because the video recorder appeared to have been set up where he sat during the debate.

The more that is revealed about this Pasit character, the more dubious his videotapes become:

According to the source, Pasit caused much suspicion among his colleagues at the Constitution Court. His claim that he was a doctor working for a private hospital was later found to be false. He had never worked for Chut when the latter served as a Supreme Court judge. And Pasit changed his name four times, which was quite unusual, the source said.

The Nation - October 22, 2010