Use Of Thai Security Laws Comes Under Attack

[webfact]

Use of security laws comes under attack at seminar

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Thai society should question the continued use of special security laws like the emergency decree imposed in Bangkok and nearby areas and not mistake the suspension of certain fundamental rights as part of the rule of law, according to top law professor Vitit Muntabhorn of Chulalongkorn University.

"The exceptions are now the rule. That exceptionalism is not the rule of law. We have to question that," he said.

Vitit spoke at a seminar on special security laws organised by the Institute of Security and International Studies (ISIS), the Konrad Adenauer Stiftung and Cross Cultural Foundation at Chulalongkorn yesterday.

Vitit said the geographic spread in the use of security laws and their cumulative effects opened doors to many excesses that were not in line with respect for human rights.

These included preventive detention for 30 days without charge under the emergency decree in Bangkok and beyond and the additional seven-day preventive detention allowed under martial law imposed in the far South.

"The people arrested can be taken to court right away, instead of waiting 30 days," Vitit said.

National Human Rights commissioner Niran Pitakwatchara said the use of these special security laws was like applying a strong dose of medicine, or chemotherapy, that could end up killing the patient.

"The patient may die," he said referring to Thai society.

"It will expand the alliance of those who dislike [the government]," he warned, adding that the law enabled the government to operate above the Constitution.

The detention of red-shirt demonstrators was the jailing of "people who think differently from the government", Niran said. Asked later by The Nation if any of the hundred or more detained red shirts should be regarded as "political prisoners" or not, Niran said yes.

"Whether we accept it or not, [some red shirts] think they have been politically detained," he said, adding that this applied only to those who had assembled peacefully but ended up being detained.

Niran proposed that the Centre for Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) be dissolved immediately to pave the way for a reliable and trustworthy inquiry into the death of 91 people in April and May and the recent spate of bomb blasts.

"As long as CRES exists to oversee the situation, it can be construed that an attempt to hide information continues," Niran said.

Vitit, meanwhile, said the issue of whether red shirts were political prisoners should be open for consideration.

"It is an open discussion whether there are political prisoners in Thailand today," Vitit said, stressing that this should only be applied to red shirts who were non-violent but detained by the authorities under the emergency decree.

"We have to test it," Vitit said, adding that the government claimed there were no more than 200 red shirts held in jail, but other sources suggested there could be 300 or more.

Government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn said at the same seminar there were 184 red shirts currently being detained in normal prisons, with 25 reported as missing, but no political prisoners.

"It's interesting you use the term 'political prisoner'. I don't find any country using that term in regard to people who are held in Thailand ... There are no secret cells, as reported by the media. We found no one held in secret jails. We found no one held without charges," he said, adding that those reported as missing could be "normal" missing people.

"Every day, there are people missing in Thailand."

-- The Nation 2010-10-12

[givenall]

CRES may have its problems, but i see a definite need for CRES as long as the Res Shirts, are trying to destroy the government by banking all these mops, I am not sure all of these problem caused by th Red Shirt will stop even after the election. Their operators are really not after democracy. they are trying to take the over hence put themselves in a very lucrative position, since the government foster the corruption

[orangezeke]

You don't address even a single issue in the article. Is k.Vivit wrong when he says 'the exception is now the rule'? Should those in prison be considered political prisoners?

In Ayutthaya a lady was arrested using these laws for selling flip flops with K.Abasits face on them. Under these laws she can be held for 30 days without charge.

This in a province where the emergency decree was supposed to have been lifted.

K.Niran said people have been jailed for thinking differently to the govt. Prove him wrong.

[jayjay0]

It never ceases to amaze me the way people are so willing to wave the human rights flag and forgo safety. The ED may not be the greatest thing going but it is better than giving malcontents the right to hold Thailand as a hostage until they get there way. When will people learn to think of the good of the people as a whole rather than there own disillusioned idea of what might happen.

It would be nice if these so called intellectuals would think of the rights of the people rather than the rights of criminals.

[Thai at Heart]

Indeed, the CRES has very serious powers and for all their fanfare, does having them sitting in "absolute" power seem to be stopping the bombings and the such? Why do you need the CRES to stop bombers? Can't that be achieved without invoking very serious legal powers like the SOE through the CRES?

If the country had a functioning governmental system, the government would be in control, the police would do their job and the army would be required as an absolute last resort. So we have the next worst outcome is that the army with Suthep as a frontman leading the show.

Unfortunately now, we have essentially a committee of the army and the government running parts of the country. And do you really believe that the government tells the army what to do? I don't.

Hiding the faces of the controllers behind the guise of the CRES doesn't change the fact that the army is essentially running the show way beyond what is ideal, and you know they aren't about to give up that bit of power easily.

[Buchholz]

The detention of red-shirt demonstrators was the jailing of "people who think differently from the government", Niran said.

They do think differently, that's for sure:

[animatic]

If it were as simple as just 'thinking differently than the government',

the SOE wouldn't be in effect. The main issue is to keep the violent

and instigators of violence off the streets til trials can be done.

[whybother]

Indeed, the CRES has very serious powers and for all their fanfare, does having them sitting in "absolute" power seem to be stopping the bombings and the such? Why do you need the CRES to stop bombers? Can't that be achieved without invoking very serious legal powers like the SOE through the CRES?

If the country had a functioning governmental system, the government would be in control, the police would do their job and the army would be required as an absolute last resort. So we have the next worst outcome is that the army with Suthep as a frontman leading the show.

Unfortunately now, we have essentially a committee of the army and the government running parts of the country. And do you really believe that the government tells the army what to do? I don't.

Hiding the faces of the controllers behind the guise of the CRES doesn't change the fact that the army is essentially running the show way beyond what is ideal, and you know they aren't about to give up that bit of power easily.

"the police would do their job "

That's the real problem, isn't it?

[Thai at Heart]

Indeed, the CRES has very serious powers and for all their fanfare, does having them sitting in "absolute" power seem to be stopping the bombings and the such? Why do you need the CRES to stop bombers? Can't that be achieved without invoking very serious legal powers like the SOE through the CRES?

If the country had a functioning governmental system, the government would be in control, the police would do their job and the army would be required as an absolute last resort. So we have the next worst outcome is that the army with Suthep as a frontman leading the show.

Unfortunately now, we have essentially a committee of the army and the government running parts of the country. And do you really believe that the government tells the army what to do? I don't.

Hiding the faces of the controllers behind the guise of the CRES doesn't change the fact that the army is essentially running the show way beyond what is ideal, and you know they aren't about to give up that bit of power easily.

"the police would do their job "

That's the real problem, isn't it?

Not the entire problem. Seems the army has a difficult time remembering its job description too. I wonder what the odds are on another coup within a year? Hardly 100 to 1 outside bet is it? And as for the politicians, well, what can you say.

One does have to ask if you gave the option for Thailand to become a stable, functioning representative democracy would the army throw its hat behind the idea? I don't think so.

The army is far too enmeshed into things it should not be involved in, and I don't see it as some benevolent overlord that comes with no selfish intention to save the day. Everything they do comes with some pretty serious strings attached, so I in the long run, I would prefer the system to get cleaned up, and the army to be told to stay completely out of domestic POLITICS. Coups do not in any way strengthen the system, the serve to continually weaken it.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[orangezeke]

again, jayjay0 and animatic address none of the comments raised in the article.

jajay0 is amazed "people are so willing to wave the human rights flag and forgo safety". but his comments are essentially the same ridiculous propaganda that Buchholz has managed to post more than 1,050 times in the last 4 months since joining. that is:

red shirts = bad

current government = our protectors and saviors. looking out for all of us in our time of need.

this concept is both simplistic and dangerously naive. when the government starts imprisoning people for their beliefs we should say something. when people are denied judicial process, we should say something. when the thai army is called in to kill its own, we should say something. i mean, the government is here to serve us. when we pander to them, becoming their lap dogs with sentiments like "The ED may not be the greatest thing going but... " and "CRES may have its problems, but..." we are doing their job for them ! You guys just let them get away with their siht, no questions asked.

K. Vivit raises some pertinent questions. Government lackeys on this forum should either offer the answers or stop towing the party line...at least for this topic.

[rubl]

K.Niran said people have been jailed for thinking differently to the govt. Prove him wrong.

With statements like that it should be easier to prove him right than prove him wrong. Be careful though, a thief is jailed because he thinks differently too

[rubl]

again, jayjay0 and animatic address none of the comments raised in the article.

jajay0 is amazed "people are so willing to wave the human rights flag and forgo safety". but his comments are essentially the same ridiculous propaganda that Buchholz has managed to post more than 1,050 times in the last 4 months since joining. that is:

red shirts = bad

current government = our protectors and saviors. looking out for all of us in our time of need.

this concept is both simplistic and dangerously naive. when the government starts imprisoning people for their beliefs we should say something. when people are denied judicial process, we should say something. when the thai army is called in to kill its own, we should say something. i mean, the government is here to serve us. when we pander to them, becoming their lap dogs with sentiments like "The ED may not be the greatest thing going but... " and "CRES may have its problems, but..." we are doing their job for them ! You guys just let them get away with their siht, no questions asked.

K. Vivit raises some pertinent questions. Government lackeys on this forum should either offer the answers or stop towing the party line...at least for this topic.

Non-government lackeys may choose to answer in any manner they like (within forum rules). As for government lackeys, please specify which government, most posters are foreigners

[dumball]

May I ask what these impositions on the public at large has actually achieved ? Given the wrong people the wrong kind of powers is all I see , still have crowds , still have bombings , still have extra dudicial killings etc , etc . They still have a need for the instillers of law to do their job in a competant manner , have your 'Belly laugh here ' , they have not managed to change a bloody thing , so goes Thailand , backwards not forwards , where certain people wish to keep it .

[Thai at Heart]

May I ask what these impositions on the public at large has actually achieved ? Given the wrong people the wrong kind of powers is all I see , still have crowds , still have bombings , still have extra dudicial killings etc , etc . They still have a need for the instillers of law to do their job in a competant manner , have your 'Belly laugh here ' , they have not managed to change a bloody thing , so goes Thailand , backwards not forwards , where certain people wish to keep it .

Indeed they have achieved virtually nothing other than to insure that the army is in control by proxy, and that the judicial system and the rights of citizens have been curtailed.

Whoopee.

[orangezeke]

K.Niran said people have been jailed for thinking differently to the govt. Prove him wrong.

With statements like that it should be easier to prove him right than prove him wrong. Be careful though, a thief is jailed because he thinks differently too

i gave an example - the lady in Ayutthaya jailed for her flip flop design. no one is arguing they are not in good taste - but a security threat ?

abasit said on sept 24 that no one is being detained any longer under these laws. either he is intentionally ignorant or doesn't know what his own administration is up to.

does that prove him right ?

[rubl]

May I ask what these impositions on the public at large has actually achieved ? Given the wrong people the wrong kind of powers is all I see , still have crowds , still have bombings , still have extra dudicial killings etc , etc . They still have a need for the instillers of law to do their job in a competant manner , have your 'Belly laugh here ' , they have not managed to change a bloody thing , so goes Thailand , backwards not forwards , where certain people wish to keep it .

Indeed they have achieved virtually nothing other than to insure that the army is in control by proxy, and that the judicial system and the rights of citizens have been curtailed.

Whoopee.

When k. Thaksin just started as PM in 2001 he only managed to escape conviction by organising rallies, threats, etc. Even than still 8-7 only in his favor about the 'honest mistake'.

Now a few weeks ago k. Sondhi was sentenced for defamation of k. Thaksin.

Opposition parties and group fill charges, ask commission to investigate and the lawful process starts.

How does that match with 'curtailed' ?

The E.D. remaining in three provinces, I'm not sure it's really necessary. It gives police and army some leeway, but doesn't seem to help much. The lives of people doesn't seem to be effected though, I have noticed nothing. I think the government should give a clear explanation why the E.D. is still needed. If they can't give more than some general bla-bla, retract it. Mind you, police should be alert and army on-call.

Edited October 12, 2010 by rubl

[rubl]

K.Niran said people have been jailed for thinking differently to the govt. Prove him wrong.

With statements like that it should be easier to prove him right than prove him wrong. Be careful though, a thief is jailed because he thinks differently too

i gave an example - the lady in Ayutthaya jailed for her flip flop design. no one is arguing they are not in good taste - but a security threat ?

abasit said on sept 24 that no one is being detained any longer under these laws. either he is intentionally ignorant or doesn't know what his own administration is up to.

does that prove him right ?

No. It just proves an over-reaction on the part of the police, it doesn't prove she's jailed for thinking differently than the government. Still defaming your PM is not to be done. The lady should have put the face on a hand/foot clapper instead

[animatic]

Never heard of this 'lady in Ayutthaya' arrested for flip flops, except from you. So that makes it unconfirmed.

In most all cases, for most all people, this SOE is invisible

and doesn't effect them.In a few cases, some are pushing the limits and getting slapped for their trouble. It would appear,

they are the instigators of this themselves, since most all Thais go about their daily business without problems.

Fort all intents and purposes the army is really a second national police force, dealing with more global issues, and more directly than the National Police seem capable of doing. If we called them, National Police force 2 most of these Army oversteps job description comments would be moot.

But the word 'Army' is held in many quarters to mean only aimed at 'external threats' and other security organs deal with internal threats. That doesn't seem the case in Thailand. Never mind if those internal threats are being aided by external sourcing too.

Am I excusing the army, no, am I looking at this realistically / pragmatically for here, I think so. But no doubt seversal here will disagree. Go for it, it doesn't make a jot of difference.

Edited October 12, 2010 by animatic

[trogers]

K Vitit, what is so normal about acts of terrorism that such acts are only deemed political dissents and the culprits treated as just political prisoners?

Would you say the same when a gang burn down your house because you hold different political views?

[Buchholz]

I also note that those who are against Abhisit have resorted to abuse in several posts, what does that tell us I wonder?

and it just goes on and on

and on and on

the same ridiculous propaganda that Buchholz has managed to post

Government lackeys on this forum

[Activo]

Indeed, the CRES has very serious powers and for all their fanfare, does having them sitting in "absolute" power seem to be stopping the bombings and the such? Why do you need the CRES to stop bombers? Can't that be achieved without invoking very serious legal powers like the SOE through the CRES?

If the country had a functioning governmental system, the government would be in control, the police would do their job and the army would be required as an absolute last resort. So we have the next worst outcome is that the army with Suthep as a frontman leading the show.

Unfortunately now, we have essentially a committee of the army and the government running parts of the country. And do you really believe that the government tells the army what to do? I don't.

Hiding the faces of the controllers behind the guise of the CRES doesn't change the fact that the army is essentially running the show way beyond what is ideal, and you know they aren't about to give up that bit of power easily.

The government don't have the real power here, they have the position but not the power to carry out the duties of the position in the same sense that westerners are use to seeing. The police are not an apolitical organization like you see in Europe & the army aren't there as a tool of the government. They are a self serving entity as interested in a share of the pie as any of the other groups jockeying for power. Not only does the goverment not have a majority within political circles, it also has to share the power & influence with all of the above. Abhisit is more like one of those performers keeping several plates spinning on poles than a national leader in the western sense.

The real power isn't even the army, its the police. Why do you think the MIB in car park 2 weren't arrested? I would be very surprised if most of those men weren't police, or ex police or auxilliary policemen hired in as muscle with immunity. Where else but here do you see policemen openly protesting at an anti government rally, in uniform???

As for human rights, what about the rights of the owners of the shopping center torched by the red shirts & the rights of the people who worked in there but are now without a job as a result & the rights of the thousands of ordinary folk in BKK whose lives were in turmoil for months? All because a certain individual & his cronies want control of the country & access to the millions of dollars just waiting to be sidelined in to private accounts - again!

[whybother]

The government don't have the real power here, they have the position but not the power to carry out the duties of the position in the same sense that westerners are use to seeing. The police are not an apolitical organization like you see in Europe & the army aren't there as a tool of the government. They are a self serving entity as interested in a share of the pie as any of the other groups jockeying for power. Not only does the goverment not have a majority within political circles, it also has to share the power & influence with all of the above. Abhisit is more like one of those performers keeping several plates spinning on poles than a national leader in the western sense.

The real power isn't even the army, its the police. Why do you think the MIB in car park 2 weren't arrested? I would be very surprised if most of those men weren't police, or ex police or auxilliary policemen hired in as muscle with immunity. Where else but here do you see policemen openly protesting at an anti government rally, in uniform???

As for human rights, what about the rights of the owners of the shopping center torched by the red shirts & the rights of the people who worked in there but are now without a job as a result & the rights of the thousands of ordinary folk in BKK whose lives were in turmoil for months? All because a certain individual & his cronies want control of the country & access to the millions of dollars just waiting to be sidelined in to private accounts - again!

"Not only does the goverment not have a majority within political circles, " - if they didn't have a majority, they wouldn't be the government.

"Why do you think the MIB in car park 2 weren't arrested?" - I believe there was a link to the army, not the police. (I may be mistaken).

"Abhisit is more like one of those performers keeping several plates spinning on poles than a national leader in the western sense." - Agreed. Abhisit has enough problems fighting crap on his own side, let alone the huge amount of crap he's getting from the other side.

[Thai at Heart]

Indeed, the CRES has very serious powers and for all their fanfare, does having them sitting in "absolute" power seem to be stopping the bombings and the such? Why do you need the CRES to stop bombers? Can't that be achieved without invoking very serious legal powers like the SOE through the CRES?

If the country had a functioning governmental system, the government would be in control, the police would do their job and the army would be required as an absolute last resort. So we have the next worst outcome is that the army with Suthep as a frontman leading the show.

Unfortunately now, we have essentially a committee of the army and the government running parts of the country. And do you really believe that the government tells the army what to do? I don't.

Hiding the faces of the controllers behind the guise of the CRES doesn't change the fact that the army is essentially running the show way beyond what is ideal, and you know they aren't about to give up that bit of power easily.

The government don't have the real power here, they have the position but not the power to carry out the duties of the position in the same sense that westerners are use to seeing. The police are not an apolitical organization like you see in Europe & the army aren't there as a tool of the government. They are a self serving entity as interested in a share of the pie as any of the other groups jockeying for power. Not only does the goverment not have a majority within political circles, it also has to share the power & influence with all of the above. Abhisit is more like one of those performers keeping several plates spinning on poles than a national leader in the western sense.

The real power isn't even the army, its the police. Why do you think the MIB in car park 2 weren't arrested? I would be very surprised if most of those men weren't police, or ex police or auxilliary policemen hired in as muscle with immunity. Where else but here do you see policemen openly protesting at an anti government rally, in uniform???

As for human rights, what about the rights of the owners of the shopping center torched by the red shirts & the rights of the people who worked in there but are now without a job as a result & the rights of the thousands of ordinary folk in BKK whose lives were in turmoil for months? All because a certain individual & his cronies want control of the country & access to the millions of dollars just waiting to be sidelined in to private accounts - again!

It is a vicious several sided object made up of Army + Majority Party + Minority Party + Police + Old Big Business + Bureaucracy

The issue is that business, bureaucracy and the police cannot remove the ruling party on their own, but if they feel they are being put upon unfairly for long enough, they can rustle up some support to get it done. The police were rising in power under Thaksin, now they feel put upon by the situation, so they have chosen largely to down tools and leave it up to the army to sort out everything, since they have assumed power in the CRES.

Abhisit tried to mess with 3g and got his wings clipped by TOT. Mapthaput was messed with and Old Big Business pulled a string or two to put him in his place.

Any PM who wants to stay in power needs to satisfy at least 4 of the 6 groups. Thaksin ran out of friends, pure and simple and also note that the "people" don't feature anywhere in the mix.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[orangezeke]

Never heard of this 'lady in Ayutthaya' arrested for flip flops, except from you. So that makes it unconfirmed.

In most all cases, for most all people, this SOE is invisible

and doesn't effect them.In a few cases, some are pushing the limits and getting slapped for their trouble. It would appear,

they are the instigators of this themselves, since most all Thais go about their daily business without problems.

Fort all intents and purposes the army is really a second national police force, dealing with more global issues, and more directly than the National Police seem capable of doing. If we called them, National Police force 2 most of these Army oversteps job description comments would be moot.

But the word 'Army' is held in many quarters to mean only aimed at 'external threats' and other security organs deal with internal threats. That doesn't seem the case in Thailand. Never mind if those internal threats are being aided by external sourcing too.

Am I excusing the army, no, am I looking at this realistically / pragmatically for here, I think so. But no doubt seversal here will disagree. Go for it, it doesn't make a jot of difference.

what does that mean...it didn't happen if you didn't read about it ? spending all of your time on 'thai visa' will do that to you. Buchholz just served up post number one thousand and whatever which again adds nothing to the topic in an effort to divert attention from the issues.

you want me to find you links to the story ? i will. but first answer this in an effort to save my time. will it change your opinion ? or will you have your defense of this administration already in place ? if you were to read that a lady with bad taste was arrested under a law that is obsolete in ayudhaya would you question it ? if you heard abasit falsely say on the 24th of last month that no one is being detained any longer under these laws, when they are, would you hold him to account ?

i will make the effort to find if you make the effort to see something differently.

i doubt you will though, with your "National Police force 2" ideals. Prove me wrong.

[orangezeke]

The government don't have the real power here, they have the position but not the power to carry out the duties of the position in the same sense that westerners are use to seeing. The police are not an apolitical organization like you see in Europe & the army aren't there as a tool of the government. They are a self serving entity as interested in a share of the pie as any of the other groups jockeying for power. Not only does the goverment not have a majority within political circles, it also has to share the power & influence with all of the above. Abhisit is more like one of those performers keeping several plates spinning on poles than a national leader in the western sense.

The real power isn't even the army, its the police. Why do you think the MIB in car park 2 weren't arrested? I would be very surprised if most of those men weren't police, or ex police or auxilliary policemen hired in as muscle with immunity. Where else but here do you see policemen openly protesting at an anti government rally, in uniform???

As for human rights, what about the rights of the owners of the shopping center torched by the red shirts & the rights of the people who worked in there but are now without a job as a result & the rights of the thousands of ordinary folk in BKK whose lives were in turmoil for months? All because a certain individual & his cronies want control of the country & access to the millions of dollars just waiting to be sidelined in to private accounts - again!

"Not only does the goverment not have a majority within political circles, " - if they didn't have a majority, they wouldn't be the government.

"Why do you think the MIB in car park 2 weren't arrested?" - I believe there was a link to the army, not the police. (I may be mistaken).

"Abhisit is more like one of those performers keeping several plates spinning on poles than a national leader in the western sense." - Agreed. Abhisit has enough problems fighting crap on his own side, let alone the huge amount of crap he's getting from the other side.

you are not mistaken - the 'other' english paper did a bit of coverage on the airport hold-up. col somsak thongsukcharoen, who is attached to the 12th army circle based in sa kaeo. but the whole argument of 'which is the worst, army or police' is redundant. they are both ridiculous organisations that sadly are given free reign under this administration as evidenced by the CRES and its emergency decree.

[Buchholz]

what does that mean...it didn't happen if you didn't read about it ?

No, it means what he wrote, that it's not been on here before. If you interject some new aspect, don't be surprised if someone asks for confirmation of it. If you have news, post it when your commentary is on a previously undisclosed subject.

spending all of your time on 'thai visa' will do that to you. Buchholz just served up post number one thousand and whatever which again adds nothing to the topic in an effort to divert attention from the issues.

If you think reminding posters to post with at least a modicum of civility towards each other (in this case, you) is diverting attention, then you might reconsider posting. Your inflammatory and over-personalizing snips at individual members massively detracts from reasonable discussion.

What is it with you types that come in here blazing away with your sling=shots of insults?

[mythBuster]

North Korea, Iran, China, Cuba, Burma they all bought the same clone of the same government spokesman in the same Russian Factory at the Gulag. Of course Thailand has political prisoners isn't that the reason why Thailand is blocking access to the website Of Political Prisoners Thailand? Of course Thailand has secret cells. Maybe not secret for the spokesman but for the rest of us they are. If 25 people are missing, something is wrong? Secret Cells or Killed?? Moreover the fact that Thailand does not give a hood about torture and secret prisons became known when an American report leaked out a few months ago. We received the same statement parroted by the same spokesman. Thailand has probably more political prisoners than Burma has.

[Buchholz]

Thailand has probably more political prisoners than Burma has.

Nice sound bite, but...

"More than 2,100 political prisoners suffer in Burma’s squalid prisons."

Human Rights Watch

http://www.hrw.org/free-burmas-prisoners

[pedro01]

when the government starts imprisoning people for their beliefs we should say something. when people are denied judicial process, we should say something. when the thai army is called in to kill its own, we should say something.

And when a group of thugs takes over a city, throws grenades, blows stuff up, we should also say something.

No-one is locked up for having an opinion.

In any country in the world, when an armed group cordons off a section of the city, it will be taken back an if the armed group fires back, some will die.

It seems to me some people on here are forgetting what really happened in April/May. The government tried a softly softly approach for months whilst the red shirts were taking excursions to various places and creating havoc.

There needs to be a serious crackdown on the UDD in my opinion. Regular people don't feel safe any more and this is all at the hands of some square faced megalomaniac who think he owns Thailand.

[orangezeke]

what does that mean...it didn't happen if you didn't read about it ?

No, it means what he wrote, that it's not been on here before. If you interject some new aspect, don't be surprised if someone asks for confirmation of it. If you have news, post it when your commentary is on a previously undisclosed subject.

spending all of your time on 'thai visa' will do that to you. Buchholz just served up post number one thousand and whatever which again adds nothing to the topic in an effort to divert attention from the issues.

If you think reminding posters to post with at least a modicum of civility towards each other (in this case, you) is diverting attention, then you might reconsider posting. Your inflammatory and over-personalizing snips at individual members massively detracts from reasonable discussion.

What is it with you types that come in here blazing away with your sling=shots of insults?

sigh...

thats it ? really ? you have nothing to add ? i said i would find the links if animatic answered some questions. will you ?

i think your propaganda is ridiculous. if saying that is a personal snipe im sorry to offend you. seriously.

now, got any comments on the article ?