Abduction Of My Daughter, By My Thai Wife

[Mario2008]

2 posts deleted as off topic.

[scott1999]

thanks a again all of you that have posted with your comments, even the ones that i did not agree with, all the posts let me see the other side of things, and have kept me focused on the main goal , re the best interests of the child,

it was to easy to feel angry and hurt for myself, at the start of all this, i was under a lot of stress and as you can see by my first few posts my brain was not working to well from the shock and anger i was feeling, now with your help and time passing, i am focused and straight in what i need to do, re divorce, and custody

but today i found out my lawyer has still not put into court for the divorce , but his reasons are, that if the police find the half sister on the warrant, all of the wifes family will go to the police station and i will hopefully get to see my daughter, for the first time since the 12 september, and maybe we can all sought it out in there,re divorce and custody. i like what was said and agree with me taking care of my daughter in the week, and the wife taking care on the weekends if she is in the country, but what i worry is the wife will just do it again, re just keep my daughter, can the court make an order, like i have said, and if the court can. can the order be enforced by the police?

if the police cannot find the half sister then i will just go a head next week with the divorce and try as said , to get the juvenile court to act alone, re more quick to get to court,

thanks again , and as i have said i will post everything on thaivisa as it happens ,

[morphious]

Good luck

[scott1999]

Good luck

thanks morphious

i just hope that oneday this thread can help other people, that are in the same boat as me right now, re cost of divorce, how to do it, and how long for divorce, what the court said and order, police side of things, to help one of us not breaking the law, and so on,

[morphious]

Good luck

thanks morphious

i just hope that oneday this thread can help other people, that are in the same boat as me right now, re cost of divorce, how to do it, and how long for divorce, what the court said and order, police side of things, to help one of us not breaking the law, and so on,

Agreed,keep us posted

[scott1999]

ok i could not tell everything as you will understand, when i tell you all the police now have the half sister in custody as of 1 hour ago, im leaving school early to go to the polie station , meeting my lawyer there,

i will post as soon as i have anymore news thanks again for all your help

[sarahsbloke]

congratulations .... if mother not around they should give you your daughter.

Take your passport and daughters birth certificate to the police station if you have them.

[Mario2008]

Indeed, I hope you will be reunited with your daughter very soon.

[PNGinBKK]

Google and call this guy : Khun Wichai Pannoi - he is a Thai Lawer, Legal Adviser and private detective agency.

He will help and it won't cost you too much

[scott1999]

im seating in my condo now waiting for my lawyer to get to the police station first, then i will go,

my heart is pumping like mad but i now i must must stay calm, just hope the mother turns up with my daughter, if not i will just have to let the law in thailand take its course,

but i know from this momment on anything they say to me or the police or the court , i will be able to use.

any body got any advice before i go to the police station , please feel free

for me ,

1 stay calm

2 look clean and shower,

3 dont get into a fight with them, if they want to shout and scream up to them,

4 i just want to know my daughter is safe, with the mother, going to school

will need all the address of home school, and so on.

5?

[sarahsbloke]

Insist on pressing charges against the sister.

Tell the police the sister will run and hide both her and your daughter if they release her.

Unless of course, she hands you the daughter, in which case it will be your turn to hide.

Maybe you could remind the policeman in charge of the 5,000bht reward you were offering for the safe recovery of your daughter into your custody.

Edited November 4, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[scott1999]

oh and of course if possible , get my daughter back now,

[scott1999]

Insist on pressing charges against the sister.

Tell the police the sister will run and hide both her and your daughter if they release her.

Unless of course, she hands you the daughter, in which case it will be your turn to hide.

ok i im all ears now

yes i like what you said very straight and clear,

[scott1999]

ok update just found out the half sister was taken from her place of work, so theres no way she can be taking care of my daughter now, my daughter can only be in the hands of the mother, or who ever the mother has got to take care of my daughter,

[scott1999]

ok im off to police now will post when i get back

thanks again for all the advice

[scott1999]

just got back from police station , the half sister was saying she dont know where the mother or my daughter is and does not have her phone number,

so the police locked up the half sister , to go infront of the court monday , bail is 100,000 , and the court date will be set, if they pay the 100.000 then she will be out tomorrow. small victory for me i think , but still no info on my daughter, even the police are worring now about my daughter,

maybe the mother will come to her sences and we can still sought out this problem before it just gets bigger and bigger,

[mkawish]

just got back from police station , the half sister was saying she dont know where the mother or my daughter is and does not have her phone number,

so the police locked up the half sister , to go infront of the court monday , bail is 100,000 , and the court date will be set, if they pay the 100.000 then she will be out tomorrow. small victory for me i think , but still no info on my daughter, even the police are worring now about my daughter,

maybe the mother will come to her sences and we can still sought out this problem before it just gets bigger and bigger,

My heart goes out for you. Your two yr old probably misses you just as much but does not know how to reach you either.

Hire a private detective to help you find her.

It will cost you probably around 40k but it would be worth it if you are suffering so agonizingly such as now.

Wish you the best and let us know when you reunite with your daughter.

[Mario2008]

Sorry to hear you are still not re-united with your child. But at least the police is taking it very serious and doing its best.

[scott1999]

just got back from police station , the half sister was saying she dont know where the mother or my daughter is and does not have her phone number,

so the police locked up the half sister , to go infront of the court monday , bail is 100,000 , and the court date will be set, if they pay the 100.000 then she will be out tomorrow. small victory for me i think , but still no info on my daughter, even the police are worring now about my daughter,

maybe the mother will come to her sences and we can still sought out this problem before it just gets bigger and bigger,

My heart goes out for you. Your two yr old probably misses you just as much but does not know how to reach you either.

Hire a private detective to help you find her.

It will cost you probably around 40k but it would be worth it if you are suffering so agonizingly such as now.

Wish you the best and let us know when you reunite with your daughter.

thank you for you concern mkawish, you and all the people on thaivisa have helped me more then you will ever know, even when we dont agree,on points of my case

what im about to say, im sure i will get flamed for, but it gave me small comfort in the police station when first the half sister and her father ranted at me saying they dont know where my daughter is , the police were not having none of it and started to take the half sister to the cells and she went from ih so face to screaming for her mother, and falling on the floor in a heap as they took her away , ive had almost 2 months now looking for my daughter, and that was the first time that they started to understand, that thai law is for us too, they was screaming at me , this is thailand, we are thai, i know not all thai people think like this, my lawyer said to me , very low so people.

i must thank the police for their work in this matter, and hope i get to see my daughter soon,

[sarahsbloke]

You have done very well Scott.

Quite frankly I am astounded at the progress you have made.

You actually give hope to all foreigners, with children, living in Thailand.

Well done.

Edited November 5, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[scott1999]

You have done very well Scott.

Quite frankly I am astounded at the progress you have made.

You actually give hope to all foreigners, with children, living in Thailand.

Well done.

thank you sarahsbloke, as you said , in england no chance , thailand a chance

they now have to pay the 100,000, bail, lawyer for divorce, and lawyer for criminal case , maybe they will re think there position and come the table to talk about the problem, up to them

[MikeyIdea]

Note that if the half-sister acted with consent of the mother, it is not kidnapping. She was than authorized to take the child and only the father could have denied her taking the child.

You are right and that's a bit why I didn't really want to believe in the kidnapping warrant. But it's a thin line that I don't know enough to interpret. The father wasn't at home so she didn't actually take the child from the father, but she did take the child from the fathers home. It would be "illegal entering" in the eyes of a juvenile court maybe, or more?

There is a warrant for arrest so a district atterney has obviously decided that it is kidnapping or he wouldn't have passed it on to criminal court for a judge to sign a warrant for arrest of someone. And the judge there considered it kidnapping or he wouldn't have signed the warrant for arrest. I think the difference is in where the judge comes from. It wasn't a judge from Juvenile court who signed the warrant, in his perspective, it's kidnapping. Good actually

Edited November 5, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[MikeyIdea]

im seating in my condo now waiting for my lawyer to get to the police station first, then i will go,

my heart is pumping like mad but i now i must must stay calm, just hope the mother turns up with my daughter, if not i will just have to let the law in thailand take its course,

but i know from this momment on anything they say to me or the police or the court , i will be able to use.

any body got any advice before i go to the police station , please feel free

for me ,

1 stay calm

2 look clean and shower,

3 dont get into a fight with them, if they want to shout and scream up to them,

4 i just want to know my daughter is safe, with the mother, going to school

will need all the address of home school, and so on.

5?

Insist on NOT allowing the charges to be dropped!

UNTIL: The mother has signed a custody agreement complete with witnesses and all. The lawyer could write a custody agreement at the police station even or better still, go to amphur together with the mother and get custody agreement registered in the computers at the amphur. After that is done, then you can allow the kidnapping charges to be dropped

The mother should accept minimum that you are primary custodian deciding where the child should live and go to chool etc and the mother is entitled to 2 weekends per month. I'd not go higher than that because I as I previously have posted think that you will get 5/2 anyway in court

Don't be a nice guy, just think of your child best and Good Luck

[Mario2008]

Note that if the half-sister acted with consent of the mother, it is not kidnapping. She was than authorized to take the child and only the father could have denied her taking the child.

You are right and that's a bit why I didn't really want to believe in the kidnapping warrant. But it's a thin line that I don't know enough to interpret. The father wasn't at home so she didn't actually take the child from the father, but she did take the child from the fathers home. It would be "illegal entering" in the eyes of a juvenile court maybe, or more?

There is a warrant for arrest so a district atterney has obviously decided that it is kidnapping or he wouldn't have passed it on to criminal court for a judge to sign a warrant for arrest of someone. And the judge there considered it kidnapping or he wouldn't have signed the warrant for arrest. I think the difference is in where the judge comes from. It wasn't a judge from Juvenile court who signed the warrant, in his perspective, it's kidnapping. Good actually

I might have been a bit hasty with my comment. I thought she took the child from school, seems that was not the case. Seems the father allowed the stepsister to take the child with her, to visit the sister. At that moment the mother could have taken possession of the child and the stepsister would not be in the wrong, as she has to hand over the child to the parent(s) as required by the law.

Guess here it is not sure if the stepmother handed over the child to the mother or not, meaning there is a legitimate suspicion that the child is abducted. But doubt that will hold if the mother states that after the stepmother colected the child she saw her child and took possession of the child. But for that the mother must turn up, and Thai social services might than also have some questions.

[scott1999]

Note that if the half-sister acted with consent of the mother, it is not kidnapping. She was than authorized to take the child and only the father could have denied her taking the child.

You are right and that's a bit why I didn't really want to believe in the kidnapping warrant. But it's a thin line that I don't know enough to interpret. The father wasn't at home so she didn't actually take the child from the father, but she did take the child from the fathers home. It would be "illegal entering" in the eyes of a juvenile court maybe, or more?

There is a warrant for arrest so a district atterney has obviously decided that it is kidnapping or he wouldn't have passed it on to criminal court for a judge to sign a warrant for arrest of someone. And the judge there considered it kidnapping or he wouldn't have signed the warrant for arrest. I think the difference is in where the judge comes from. It wasn't a judge from Juvenile court who signed the warrant, in his perspective, it's kidnapping. Good actually

I might have been a bit hasty with my comment. I thought she took the child from school, seems that was not the case. Seems the father allowed the stepsister to take the child with her, to visit the sister. At that moment the mother could have taken possession of the child and the stepsister would not be in the wrong, as she has to hand over the child to the parent(s) as required by the law.

Guess here it is not sure if the stepsister handed over the child to the mother or not, meaning there is a legitimate suspicion that the child is abducted. But doubt that will hold if the mother states that after the stepmother colected the child she saw her child and took possession of the child. But for that the mother must turn up, and Thai social services might than also have some questions.

thanks for the interest and help, i will try to clear up somethings on the 12th of september a sunday , the stepsister asked my daughter to ask me if she can take care of her in the condo that the half brother lives in,on the complex ,while i go to work for 4 hours , my daughter and her half sister was told that my daughter had to be home re , my condo by 7pm, they both agreed, the condo i live is in building 2 the condo the half brother lives is in building 3, my condo is in my name the other one in my wifes name , but as we a still married in the eyes of the law they belong to both of us,i went to work, and when i got home about 5pm i had some food and waited for my daughter to come home , at 7.30pm as we had school in the morning. i went to look for my daughter and their condo was locked up, and phones turned off, by 8.30 i was making a report to the police, no news of my daughter from anyone till the day after the warrant was stamped by the judge around the 24th september, the embassy rang me to say the mother and my daughter was in the embassy trying to get a new passport, they knew the passport was with me and that there had been a kidnapping, or abduction

as re your post , if the mother was in thailand and asked the stepsister to do it, then i have a problem ,the mother had said she had gone back to england at the end of august, she had confirmed this to me and my daughter but if she was hiding in thailand ready to abduct my daughter,then she will need to explain this, or the mother was in england maybe some thing went wrong when she tried to get back into england or the job was gone and she gave the order to take my daughter while she was still in england , then my case is stronger, as i must be the main career if the mother is 7000 miles away, only the wife passport stamps will tell us the truth,

hope this clears some points up , and thanks again for all your help,

[Mario2008]

If the mother wasn't in Thailand on the 12th of September it was kidnapping, as the stepsister should have returned the child to you.

The child was with the mother on the 24th, so at least since then there is no longer a case of kidnapping, (but the old case would still stand).

If the child is now no longer with the mother, it would be kidnapping if the person(s) who take care of your daughter knows that you want the child back. If they don't know that you want your daughter back they can claim that they are acting on request of the mother and didn't knew that you wanted the child back.

With the arrest of the stepsister and assuming the child is with family if not with the mother, that argument will be hard to maintain.

If you haven't done so, you might inform social services in the UK about this situation in case he mother and child travel to the UK. That the child is withheld from school will be a matter of concern to the authorities of both countries.

In addition, in some countries children have a right to be heard in custody cases. Normally when they are 12 years of older, but a judge might hear the child at younger age and can take into consideration what the child wants.

Not sure about the provisions of UK law.

For now I would assume that the child still is in Thailand, given the mother doesn't have the British passport and the child will be subject to a visa.

[BasementCat]

Hi Scott, I just wanted to wish you luck in finding your daughter. Hopefully the half sister will confess where the little girl is and you will soon reunite with the kid.

[scott1999]

Hi Scott, I just wanted to wish you luck in finding your daughter. Hopefully the half sister will confess where the little girl is and you will soon reunite with the kid.

thank you for your comments , i do hope so

[sarahsbloke]

If you haven't done so, you might inform social services in the UK about this situation in case he mother and child travel to the UK. That the child is withheld from school will be a matter of concern to the authorities of both countries.

I'm pretty sure this would be a really bad idea ...... can't imagine a man in the UK being trusted with a 9-year-old daughter

Especially if

1) The mother accuses the husband of child abuse (which she has already done in Thailand)

2) If the husband has ever lived in Thailand

They UK authorities would probably offer the mother a Visa and passport for the daughter, just to try to save her from her 'abusive father'

Edited November 5, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[MikeyIdea]

Mario2008, excellent sum-up

Another poster posted that the child is 2 years old, correction: the child is 9 according to the first post

What can be the half-sisters defence? She is by now staring at 4 cement walls so I bet she is thinking hard. The only defences I can think of is that she acted on behalf of the mother or as Mario writes, the mother turned up demanding the child. The abduction/kidnapping charge is not dealt with by Juvenile court, that court may very well see things slightly differently (from a Juvenile court). I don't know.

The mothers half-sister is locked up and I think that is quite a victory, the father will get the money somehow, borrow from relatives (and they will help) if he doesn’t have enough so she will be out soon but don’t be too disappointed about that, it’s still an excellent way to hammer into the mothers thick head that Thai laws apply to Thais and westerners equally. Rude awakening… Court day will come fairly quickly; Thai courts are actually fairly quick in cases like this

The mother will very soon know that her friend and relative is in jail (or out on bail facing abduction/kidnapping charges) so she will probably be put under pressure to negotiate with you. If the step sister is freed from the charges, then advantage would probably turn to the mother a bit, her confidence that she’s doing the right thing would grow. Do ask your lawyer about requesting an emergency hearing with Juvenile court, You are the father, school has started and as far as you know, the child is denied education, and abandonment and abduction perhaps

what im about to say, im sure i will get flamed for, but it gave me small comfort in the police station when first the half sister and her father ranted at me saying they dont know where my daughter is , the police were not having none of it and started to take the half sister to the cells and she went from ih so face to screaming for her mother, and falling on the floor in a heap as they took her away , ive had almost 2 months now looking for my daughter, and that was the first time that they started to understand, that thai law is for us too, they was screaming at me , this is thailand, we are thai, i know not all thai people think like this, my lawyer said to me , very low so people.

You won’t get flamed by me Scott, an Excellent description that I must say I enjoyed reading

Maybe you should let the lawyer know that you from now on only will think of the childs best and nothing else, the lawyer will really respect and appreciate that.

I still wonder how much the child will be part of deciding the outcome in this case.

This must have been so difficult for you and I can only admit that I would have been in a real mess had my daughter been abducted from me, you have done very well Scott. Hang in there and things will soon get better

Don’t be a nice guy, only think about the best for your daughter